"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in news:TPidnT9XbdWp9sDeRVn-
:

The price of gasoline starts to rise in the middle of may and it
usually descends in the middle of September.

And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the so-called "summer
driving season". Think about it - the fuel needed to transport
EVERY SCHOOL KID IN THE COUNTRY during September through May is
FAR MORE than the fuel needed to transport small percentages of
the population as they take ONE vacation.

The real reason that gas prices go up in the summer is - you
guessed it - GOVERNMENT. Due to a ridiculous patchwork of
useless environmental regulations, there are about FORTY
different gasoline formulations during the summer. Now, is it
cheaper for refineries to crank out FORTY different formulas? Or
ONE?

I know nothing about what you said in that last paragraph, except
that you said "ridiculous". Since you made the statement, you must
be fairly well informed about these gasoline formulations. What's
their purpose, and why are they particular to summer?

Their supposed purpose is to reduce pollution and improve air
quality. The stated reason that they're particular to summer is
because hotter humid summer air is more prone to cause respiratory
problems. Of course it also lets politicians (falsely) blame oil
companies for "gouging" during the "summer driving season" (which,
as I pointed out above, is NOT the time of heaviest motor fuel
usage).

And, these additives cause 20% price hikes?

Let's see YOUR company switch its manufacturing infrastructure from
producing ONE product to producing FORTY and see if your costs remain
constant.

This assumes you work for a company, of course, rather than for a
non- real-world job such as academia or government.

1) If oil companies haven't streamlined a seasonal process by now,
they have no business expecting customers to pay the price for their
incompetence.

"Streamlining the process" would mean ONE FORMULA, NOT FORTY to anybody
with a brain.

Nope. Plenty of other industries make seasonal adjustments to products and
processes. You may crave simplicity (for reasons which are obvious to
everyone except you), but in the grownup world, you won't get it.

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in news:TPidnT9XbdWp9sDeRVn-
:

The price of gasoline starts to rise in the middle of may and it
usually descends in the middle of September.

And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the so-called "summer
driving season". Think about it - the fuel needed to transport
EVERY SCHOOL KID IN THE COUNTRY during September through May is FAR
MORE than the fuel needed to transport small percentages of the
population as they take ONE vacation.

The real reason that gas prices go up in the summer is - you
guessed it - GOVERNMENT. Due to a ridiculous patchwork of useless
environmental regulations, there are about FORTY different gasoline
formulations during the summer. Now, is it cheaper for refineries
to crank out FORTY different formulas? Or ONE?

I know nothing about what you said in that last paragraph, except
that you said "ridiculous". Since you made the statement, you must
be fairly well informed about these gasoline formulations. What's
their purpose, and why are they particular to summer?

Their supposed purpose is to reduce pollution and improve air
quality. The stated reason that they're particular to summer is
because hotter humid summer air is more prone to cause respiratory
problems. Of course it also lets politicians (falsely) blame oil
companies for "gouging" during the "summer driving season" (which, as
I pointed out above, is NOT the time of heaviest motor fuel usage).

And, these additives cause 20% price hikes?

Let's see YOUR company switch its manufacturing infrastructure from
producing ONE product to producing FORTY and see if your costs remain
constant.

It is not just the production, but also delivery and balancing the supply
and demand of those 40 different products.


This assumes you work for a company, of course, rather than for a non-
real-world job such as academia or government.

D-unit wrote:

AP Oil analyst Tom Kloza said he expects to see retail prices below
$2 a gallon in some markets by the end of this year.


Gas Prices Plummet Amid Falling Demand
(AP)
NEW YORK (Oct. 23) - The average retail price of a gallon of gasoline
in the United States plunged more than 25 cents in the past two weeks,
as refining capacity was restored and demand slowed, a survey showed
Sunday.

Still, prices remained slightly higher than pre-Hurricane Katrina
levels.

The national average for self-serve, regular unleaded gasoline was
$2.6587 a gallon on Oct. 21, down about 25.3 cents per gallon from Oct.
7, according to the nationwide Lundberg survey of about 6,000 gas
stations.

"This is the biggest drop in a two week period that we have ever seen
in our many decades surveying the gasoline market, survey editor Trilby
Lundberg said.

Supply is up due to restoration of refining capacity, which was damaged
during Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, Lundberg said.

Demand was dampened as consumers cut back on gasoline consumption in
response to skyrocketing prices, as well as by evacuations of areas
such as the Gulf Coast.

Of the areas surveyed, Honolulu had the highest average price at $3.03
a gallon for self-serve, regular unleaded gas on Oct. 21, while the
lowest average price was $2.20 a gallon in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Preliminary data shows gasoline demand is 2 percent to 3 percent lower
than a year ago, Lundberg said.

The current U.S. average price for a gallon of gasoline is just 3 cents
above the pre-Katrina price, Lundberg said.

"It's been a real roller coaster since then," she said.

"The supply and demand were grossly out of balance and remain somewhat
out of balance in the gas market,'' Lundberg said. "But that balance is
normalizing as refining capacity is brought back up.''

Lundberg said she expected the cost-cutting to continue in the coming
weeks unless an extreme winter drives up heating oil demand and affects
the price of crude oil and its derivatives.

Lundberg said Hurricane Wilma, which is bearing down on Florida after
hitting Mexico, seems to be benign to gas supply, but not to gasoline
demand. "The evacuations do remove some demand."

10-23-05 15:55 EDT


So, are you suggesting that if 5 million NOers stop driving, the
what, 5 million gallons a day drop in consumption, could bring down
demand and price significantly? That would be, what, 100,000 barrels
of gas per day?

That would be good news, if only it affected people's perception of
what a few percent decrease in demand could do to the oil guys. Mind
you, other uses like disposable plastic packaging and other plastic
junk also drives demand for oil.

Reduce useage and wasteful packaging! Seems Wall-Mart might be
announcing something along that line, what?

Terry K

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
D-unit wrote:

AP Oil analyst Tom Kloza said he expects to see retail prices below
$2 a gallon in some markets by the end of this year.


Gas Prices Plummet Amid Falling Demand
(AP)
NEW YORK (Oct. 23) - The average retail price of a gallon of gasoline
in the United States plunged more than 25 cents in the past two weeks,
as refining capacity was restored and demand slowed, a survey showed
Sunday.

Still, prices remained slightly higher than pre-Hurricane Katrina
levels.

The national average for self-serve, regular unleaded gasoline was
$2.6587 a gallon on Oct. 21, down about 25.3 cents per gallon from Oct.
7, according to the nationwide Lundberg survey of about 6,000 gas
stations.

"This is the biggest drop in a two week period that we have ever seen
in our many decades surveying the gasoline market, survey editor Trilby
Lundberg said.

Supply is up due to restoration of refining capacity, which was damaged
during Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, Lundberg said.

Demand was dampened as consumers cut back on gasoline consumption in
response to skyrocketing prices, as well as by evacuations of areas
such as the Gulf Coast.

Of the areas surveyed, Honolulu had the highest average price at $3.03
a gallon for self-serve, regular unleaded gas on Oct. 21, while the
lowest average price was $2.20 a gallon in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Preliminary data shows gasoline demand is 2 percent to 3 percent lower
than a year ago, Lundberg said.

The current U.S. average price for a gallon of gasoline is just 3 cents
above the pre-Katrina price, Lundberg said.

"It's been a real roller coaster since then," she said.

"The supply and demand were grossly out of balance and remain somewhat
out of balance in the gas market,'' Lundberg said. "But that balance is
normalizing as refining capacity is brought back up.''

Lundberg said she expected the cost-cutting to continue in the coming
weeks unless an extreme winter drives up heating oil demand and affects
the price of crude oil and its derivatives.

Lundberg said Hurricane Wilma, which is bearing down on Florida after
hitting Mexico, seems to be benign to gas supply, but not to gasoline
demand. "The evacuations do remove some demand."

10-23-05 15:55 EDT


So, are you suggesting that if 5 million NOers stop driving, the what, 5
million gallons a day drop in consumption, could bring down demand and
price significantly? That would be, what, 100,000 barrels of gas per day?

That would be good news, if only it affected people's perception of what a
few percent decrease in demand could do to the oil guys. Mind you, other
uses like disposable plastic packaging and other plastic junk also drives
demand for oil.

Reduce useage and wasteful packaging! Seems Wall-Mart might be announcing
something along that line, what?

What's Wal Mart saying about packaging? Teaching their cashiers that a pack
of gum doesn't require a bag?

Doug Kanter wrote:

Good, now maybe someone can explain the predicted hike in natural gas
prices.


Market forces. Price here has nothing to do with demand, NG is
priced as a proportion of gas price, based on energy content. NG was
vented for many years at oil wellheads, as uneconomical to pipeline,
until pollution controls demanded that it be not discarded to the
atmosphere. Yes, all that cast off methane over the last 50 years or
so that is the real source of global warming! That dirty little
secret fact forced the oilcos to promote and sell it, with back room
legal protection from government action, 'cause we users demand to
burn it. Ureka! Huge market for free-to-oilco-castoffs. Where is
our class action suit? Webo knows.

They get it for free, needed only package it. They saw no real
useful demand until they made it available. Short sighted?

Who? Not the oil guys, eh?

Electric cars are coming. Electric shingles are coming. Salvation
is at hand. The heathen oil guys are panicking, too stupid to get
ahead of the curve, complacent, besotted in their unmanageable
wealth, as fossillized as their source of wealth.

Terry K

Keep drinking the kool-aid

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

Good, now maybe someone can explain the predicted hike in natural gas
prices.


Market forces. Price here has nothing to do with demand, NG is
priced as a proportion of gas price, based on energy content. NG was
vented for many years at oil wellheads, as uneconomical to pipeline,
until pollution controls demanded that it be not discarded to the
atmosphere. Yes, all that cast off methane over the last 50 years or
so that is the real source of global warming! That dirty little
secret fact forced the oilcos to promote and sell it, with back room
legal protection from government action, 'cause we users demand to
burn it. Ureka! Huge market for free-to-oilco-castoffs. Where is
our class action suit? Webo knows.

They get it for free, needed only package it. They saw no real
useful demand until they made it available. Short sighted?

Who? Not the oil guys, eh?

Electric cars are coming. Electric shingles are coming. Salvation
is at hand. The heathen oil guys are panicking, too stupid to get
ahead of the curve, complacent, besotted in their unmanageable
wealth, as fossillized as their source of wealth.

Terry K

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:30:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


What's Wal Mart saying about packaging? Teaching their cashiers that a
pack
of gum doesn't require a bag?

There are a lot of good answers to the packaging problem that don't
end with, ".....paper or plastic?"

I wasn't comparing paper to plastic. They both have their pitfalls, in terms
of environmental impact. But, what's indisputable is that cashiers very
often give you your groceries in 19 plastic bags, when only 5 are necessary.
Yeah...you can "advise" them, but what a pain. The best part: I commented
recently to a teenager that considering how dependent we are on oil, it
might be smart to ask people if they want a bag when they're buying just a
loaf of bread and it's not raining outside. He was surprised to find that
plastic originates with oil. What the hell are kids taught in school these
days? "Be sure to wear a helmet when masturbating" ???