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Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively
plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
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Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:13:05 GMT, wrote:
Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Mine has a 454 V8 engine that runs a Berkley jet pump: http://www.rexmar.com/page125.html which takes in water below and forces it out the back. The higher the RPMs, the faster the motor turns the pump... Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Likely that some can. You could call around and ask before you get the boat, getting some idea of who has experience with them, etc. The engine on mine is meant for a truck or race car, so parts fo the engine can be had at an auto parts store, And auto mechanics can work on it. Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? The guy who sold me mine acts like it can't handle very much, but I thought it did pretty well. I believe there are a variety of hull designs that have jet drives. Mine is patterned after a sidewinder: http://www.cars-on-line.com/86side12501.html but there are a couple of different types he http://www.mongoose.net/files/pr2006...-JET-BOAT.html Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don They are much like a big PWC like a Jet Ski. You have no steering unless you are pushing water through the pump. I had a very hard time docking mine, and even harder trailering it (tore up the trailer a couple of times). I haven't run it this year, but have learned a lot since last I drove it. One thing I learned was the technique of when trying to move slowly, let it coast in neutral until it about stops moving...then put it in forward for a second or so and you'll have steering control...then coast again ....then in forward (or sometimes reverse)...etc. Not knowing that method, I just put mine in forward at idle and did the best I could. It was fine until I got up to the trailer at wicked speeds of about 5 mph, and wasn't lined up just right... Jet boats turn very sharply, often look cool, and sound great. But they are also hard to control at slow speeds, and imo use a lot of gas. Another thing which I haven't had to deal with is that they can suck a rope up into the jet, and then you have hell getting it out. Have to get up under it under water, and cut it out with a razor knife. I want to sell mine. It's in pretty rough shape, and I'd probably let it go right now for $1500. I expect to stick with prop drives from now on. But the jet was a lot of fun!!! I like the way if handles better than my prop boat, and if I get it running may decide to keep it instead of the prop, now that I've learned more basics about how to drive boats. Out of curiosity, what caused your interest in jet boats? |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:20:01 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:
wrote: Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? A gas turbine drives a fan that sucks in air, mixes it with burning fuel, and then blasts the expanded air-gas mixture out the back. [...] That's not how mine works. A lot of PWCs have jet drives, and I haven't seen that type jet on one of them yet either. I'll be on the lookout for one now though :-) |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Jet's are simple and straight forward. Avoid extreme shallow water
operations as you'll suck up sand and what not and ruin the impellor. The stability is a factor of the hull form, not the drive. wrote in message ... Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
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Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
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Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
wrote in message
... Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? A jet drive is pumps water out of a nozzel using an impellor as opposed to a propellor. Jet drives are hooked up to traditional outboards (Outboard Jet Corp.), special adapted 2 stroke jets (Merc. Sport Jet) and big V-4, V-6 or V-8 marinized automobile engines (e.g. Hamilton, Berkely, Kodiak, etc.). Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? My opinion is that jet drives are much simpler than traditional I/O outdrives or prop lower units. I believe, as a non-mechanic, that any decent mechanic would be able to service and repair a jet drive with a shop manual and decent wrenching skills. Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? A Jet motor , whether inboard or outboard, can be put on any hull. I've seen very many quite large and seaworthy boats with inboard jets. I have also seen many that are in fiberglass sport boats that are suitable for more lake or small wave activities. Many are installed on flat bottomed or low deadrise river boats. So, it all depends on the hull!! Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Good luck and have fun. I've owned V8 inboard jets and outboard jets on aluminum riverboats. For their purpose, they can't be beat, and as I said, I think they're much simpler than I/OF and outboard prop drives. But they can be much less efficient, although the Merc sport jet is pretty efficient and my V8 was pretty efficient too. |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
wrote ... But they are also hard to control at slow speeds, and imo use a lot of gas. That depends on the pump design. The Hamilton 212 has large reverse buckets that provide excellent low speed control. I can rotate my boat in its own length. Fuel efficiency is also close to a prop. Another thing which I haven't had to deal with is that they can suck a rope up into the jet, and then you have hell getting it out. That's true, it's good to avoid that although some provide an access hatch from the top. -rick- |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
As a follow up to this note and the one I posted regarding sal****er
v. fresh water boating: First of all, THANKS!! Very nice of you to pass on your knowledge. It helps a lot!! I PRESUME that with a jet boat, no flushing at all is necessary because not much of anything touches the water. ???? As to how I got into the jet boat area, I needed a shallow draft because I live on St. George Sound in FLorida and the water gets VERY shallow, more draft than a foot would not allow me to moor a boat within 1000 feet of my house. Secondly, I needed a boat that could be towed by our Jeep Wrangler, limitation about 2000 pounds. Lastly, I wanted something a bit more plush than the center cockpit fishing boats that EVERYONE has in thiis area (don't like them, don't need one because we don't fish). Hence, when I posed my requirements on this board, a couple people suggested jet boats. And it seems to fit the bill for me. My only problem has been wondering why ALL boats are not jet boats - because it seems that the advantage of not having a propeller to get wrecked and needing to be maintained would be a no-brainer. So, I KNEW there were some disadvantages that I was not aware of - such as stability, longevity, maintainability, size limitations, etc. Thanks again for the info. Don On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:13:05 GMT, wrote: Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
I PRESUME that with a jet boat, no flushing at all is necessary because not much of anything touches the water. ???? Actually, the thing is always in the water since water runs through it. Make sure all the zincs are kept up with. As to how I got into the jet boat area, I needed a shallow draft because I live on St. George Sound in FLorida and the water gets VERY shallow, more draft than a foot would not allow me to moor a boat within 1000 feet of my house. Operating with less than 12" between the pump inlet and the bottom will lead to early pump erosion. My only problem has been wondering why ALL boats are not jet boats - because it seems that the advantage of not having a propeller to get wrecked and needing to be maintained would be a no-brainer. So, I KNEW there were some disadvantages that I was not aware of - such as stability, longevity, maintainability, size limitations, etc. Efficiency is a major factor. You have an efficiency loss with a pump. Just because you don't have a prop to destry doesn't mean you don't have an impeller to destroy. You catch a piece of line on a prop, and most likely you just have to cut it off, you suck it into the pump and it may cost you a couple thousand. My favorite choice of drive for shallow water is a surface piercing prop like an Arneson. Every drive system has its advantages and disadvantages (except I/O, I can't figure an advantage to that one), you just have to figure which works best for your situation and try to work within the systems limitations. |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
I had a 21' jet with a 396 Chevy. It was HEAVY. Jet pump that blows water
out the back, like a giant jet ski. wrote in message ... Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
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Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
"HLAviation" wrote in message ink.net... Jet's are simple and straight forward. Avoid extreme shallow water operations as you'll suck up sand and what not and ruin the impellor. The stability is a factor of the hull form, not the drive. wrote in message ... Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don Shallow and sand does not destroy the impeller depending on the pump. The Kodiak and Hamilton pumps are all stainless impellers. You may eat up the cutlass bearings with sand flow. As to repair on these pumps, is very easy. But the problem for you may be the cost of the boats. The top aluminum river (about 2" draft at speed) and the deeper vee models (about 8" draft and 12" of draft at anchor) are the $35-45K price for them. Look at Boice jets and Willy boats and Alumaweld boats. Bill |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively
plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? A jet drive, or jet boat propelles itself by sucking water (from the bottom of the hull), pressurizes it, and "squirts" it out a directional nozzle. It generally does not mean a gas turbine powered boat, like mine seen he http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Like all drive systems, the worker needs experience on that drive. However, it should be noted...jet drives are the least complex drive systems for any motorized boat. A standard jet drive (no trim) has 3 moving parts...the impellor/shaft, the nozzle, and the cup. Jet drives are also the least expensive drive to install, and also allow a very shallow draft. They are also the safest drive. With no exposed prop, jet drives have been know to run over things...including people...with no harm to either. Down sides are as follows... Even the best jet drives, are only 90% efficient compared to their prop cousins. Jet drives perform best with a high-torque engines, generally making them less fuel efficient than any other drive system. Soft or spongy steering. Steering in a jet is not as accurate and precise as an out-drive or rudder, especially at slow speeds. Loss of control with no power. Like a jet-ski, jet drive boats lose steering capabilities with no engine power. Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Jet drives are generally impractical on hulls bigger than 25', but it's going to depend on your freeboard and deadrise. Typically, jet boats have a very shallow deadrise, and low freeboard, but there are exceptions...I have seen some pretty big jet day cruisers that could handle 2-3' rollers all day long. Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don Hope this helps...good luck. -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
"Netsock" wrote in message ... Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? A jet drive, or jet boat propelles itself by sucking water (from the bottom of the hull), pressurizes it, and "squirts" it out a directional nozzle. It generally does not mean a gas turbine powered boat, like mine seen he http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Like all drive systems, the worker needs experience on that drive. However, it should be noted...jet drives are the least complex drive systems for any motorized boat. A standard jet drive (no trim) has 3 moving parts...the impellor/shaft, the nozzle, and the cup. Jet drives are also the least expensive drive to install, and also allow a very shallow draft. They are also the safest drive. With no exposed prop, jet drives have been know to run over things...including people...with no harm to either. Down sides are as follows... Even the best jet drives, are only 90% efficient compared to their prop cousins. Jet drives perform best with a high-torque engines, generally making them less fuel efficient than any other drive system. Soft or spongy steering. Steering in a jet is not as accurate and precise as an out-drive or rudder, especially at slow speeds. Loss of control with no power. Like a jet-ski, jet drive boats lose steering capabilities with no engine power. Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Jet drives are generally impractical on hulls bigger than 25', but it's going to depend on your freeboard and deadrise. Typically, jet boats have a very shallow deadrise, and low freeboard, but there are exceptions...I have seen some pretty big jet day cruisers that could handle 2-3' rollers all day long. Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don Hope this helps...good luck. -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ Correct except for the size boat. Lots of fast ferry boats are jet drive. The Golden Gate ferries in San Francisco bay and I rode the "Fast Ferry" from Barcelona to Majorca. 97 meters long, 800 passengers, 300 cars and a few semi's. 47 knots and 38,500 HP. We had to slow down to maybe 40 coming back as there were 10' swells in the Mediterranean. |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Others have addressed the drive. Here is my take on maintainability. Imagine
the power path of a stern drive. Horizontal out of the engine, then turn downwards through a fully articulating joint (left right, up down). Enter the gear box and turn again while providing direction reversal. Add to this a hydraulic or electric system to provide power tilt/trim. The power path on my boat is: horizontal out of the engine, period. Impeller is on the engine shaft, with no gearing, joints, or cylinders. The steering cable turns the nozzle, and the thing that looks like a gear shift controls the bucket, providing forward/reverse and a no go position that still allows turning. The jet is the SUV of boats. Like using four wheel drive, I don't run shallow all the time; but nice to have the capability when needed. The tides were all wrong for boating in the river yesterday. We went anyway. Disadvantages are lost efficiency and insurance agents who believe Harry Krause. wrote in message ... Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
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Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal wrote in message ... [snip] shaft, with no gearing, joints, or cylinders. The steering cable turns the nozzle, and the thing that looks like a gear shift controls the bucket, providing forward/reverse and a no go position that still allows turning. What kind of jet boat do you have? Most, if not all, have a universal joint set between the engine and drive. Also, please explain how you can turn in a "no go" position. Later... -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Jetcraft with a 7.4L GM close coupled to a Hamilton 212. Close coupling
eliminates the U-joint and its possible failure points, and makes engine box smaller. If the neutral no-go position is adjusted properly and wheel is straight ahead, bucket directs flow down and to out to each side equally so boat is stationary, or becomes stationary if moving. (The brakes on this thing are amazing; probably should have seat belts) Turning the wheel at this point unbalances the side flows so boat will spin around a point very close to center, with no net forward or reverse movement. "Netsock" wrote in message ... "Steve Alexanderson" Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal wrote in message ... [snip] shaft, with no gearing, joints, or cylinders. The steering cable turns the nozzle, and the thing that looks like a gear shift controls the bucket, providing forward/reverse and a no go position that still allows turning. What kind of jet boat do you have? Most, if not all, have a universal joint set between the engine and drive. Also, please explain how you can turn in a "no go" position. Later... -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
wrote in message ... Ummmm, before you call people morons, please check out the for who said what. The "unknowledgeable" original writer (me) is NOT the person with the political statements. In fact, I think I'm going to check on some political groups to see if they have a lot of boating information in them. Don ............ You misunderstood. My comment was directed to one H Krause. He is the moron. On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:37:38 -0400, "jim--" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wrote: Due to my requirements of shallow draft, light weight and relatively plush interior, I find myself looking into jet boats as a likely purchase. My questions are as follows: Does "jet boat" mean "jet drive" and what exactly does jet drive mean? A gas turbine drives a fan that sucks in air, mixes it with burning fuel, and then blasts the expanded air-gas mixture out the back. Because every action has an equal and opposite reaction, as the air streams backward the engine is forced forward, taking along its container, so to speak. Is a jet drive fairly straightforward in maintainability? Certainly, if you are a trained jet drive mechanic. Can marine mechanics in a podunk Florida fishing village work on these? Yes, but there is a likelihood he will pooch it. Living on a large sound in the Gulf, just how much wave action can this boat take before it becomes unsafe? I'd slow down when waves start coming over the bow. Of course, that's me. Your gallonage may vary. Thanks in advance for any knowledge you have of this. It is MUCH appreciated. Don -- A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush; A vote for Bush is a vote for Apocalypse. You really are a moron. |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
"Netsock" wrote in message ... "Steve Alexanderson" Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal wrote in message ... [snip] shaft, with no gearing, joints, or cylinders. The steering cable turns the nozzle, and the thing that looks like a gear shift controls the bucket, providing forward/reverse and a no go position that still allows turning. What kind of jet boat do you have? Most, if not all, have a universal joint set between the engine and drive. Also, please explain how you can turn in a "no go" position. Most of the more advanced pumps have buckets which shoot down and to the sides(along with forwards), when you turn the nozzel, the side forces get unbalanced and spin the boat. Often with larger jets the pumps are also clutched and with multi units they have an option to independently control the steering per pump. |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Most of the more advanced pumps have buckets which shoot down and to the
sides(along with forwards), when you turn the nozzel, the side forces get unbalanced and spin the boat. Often with larger jets the pumps are also clutched and with multi units they have an option to independently control the steering per pump. All my experience has been with big block Berkeley and Dominator pumps. Those keep a "neutral" by equally maintaining rear, and forward thrust. A properly set up Berk or Dom will not move in "neutral" no matter what way the nozzle is pointed. Oh well...live and learn! :) -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
"Netsock" wrote in message ... Most of the more advanced pumps have buckets which shoot down and to the sides(along with forwards), when you turn the nozzel, the side forces get unbalanced and spin the boat. Often with larger jets the pumps are also clutched and with multi units they have an option to independently control the steering per pump. All my experience has been with big block Berkeley and Dominator pumps. Those keep a "neutral" by equally maintaining rear, and forward thrust. A properly set up Berk or Dom will not move in "neutral" no matter what way the nozzle is pointed. Oh well...live and learn! :) -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ The river jet boats normally run a low pressure pump. Berkeley and Dom are high pressure. Small nozzle outlet. The Hamilton and earlier Kodiak that I run are triple impellers in a same size tube. Very little restriction at the opening. Work better if you lose prime in a set of rapids. Bill |
Jet boats. Any opinions or experience?
Most of my jet pump experience is with KaMeWa units behind 1500+hp Diesels
or 3500+hp gas turbines. "Netsock" wrote in message ... Most of the more advanced pumps have buckets which shoot down and to the sides(along with forwards), when you turn the nozzel, the side forces get unbalanced and spin the boat. Often with larger jets the pumps are also clutched and with multi units they have an option to independently control the steering per pump. All my experience has been with big block Berkeley and Dominator pumps. Those keep a "neutral" by equally maintaining rear, and forward thrust. A properly set up Berk or Dom will not move in "neutral" no matter what way the nozzle is pointed. Oh well...live and learn! :) -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/ |
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