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Old evinrude question
Hello,
Newb' here. I have what I hope is an easy question(s). About 5-6 years ago (I think) I "inherited" my uncle's old cedar planked reinel boat. It had a 1965 75 horse Evinrude on it (the real reason I wanted it). The problem was, it had sat in my uncle's yard for 18 years. He didn't do any up keep on the engine (or the boat). It got so that that the boat's transom rotted out. The guy who owned it before my uncle, had put in, I kid you not, 8 screws in each plank that connected to the plywood transom. I think that sped up some of the rotting. Subsequently, the motor stood in the mud (and halfways connected to the transom). Anyways, I junked the boat because I would've had to replace every piece of wood in order to fix it (I fell through part of it). But I kept the evinrude and the trailer. I built a structure to hold the engine, and got to work on getting it running. I was told that old johnson and evinrudes are bullet proof (and the fact my family has a 1962 75 horse Johnson, that's still working fine after 43 years says something) and that I should be able to get it running relatively easy. After I bought a new distributor cap, plug wires, and plugs I got it running like a champ. One thing that was nice (at least, I thought so) was the water spitting out of the exhaust (or whatever it comes out of) at a better rate than another engine I have access to (the aformentioned 62 Johnson). It even sounded stronger/healthier than the 62. My concern/question is this. In the garbage can I used to run it, the water got a layer of an oily substance on it's surface, after each time running. Now, I know that old boat engines (of this vintage) tend to leak oil (etc), but I was wondering if there could be another reason for that to have happened? Like (and I realize there are important bits of information that I'm leaving out, that could help better decipher the situation for you) maybe I had flooded it, or I might have put too much oil in the gas. I don't remember how much oil I put in (I'm fairly certain I put in the correct ratio) or if I flooded it. And since I haven't used/started the evinrude since, I really don't have any recent evidence to reference. Was it maybe that the garbage can I used was small enough that what oil/discharge would normally appear (and usually dissapated in a lake/river) just accumulated in the garbage can and appeared to be more than what was "normal"? Also, is there a way to check the gaskets without taking it apart? I hope this makes the least amount of sense. Thanks Dan |
There shouldn't be ANY sheen at all.
The lower unit can be pressure tested. Be sure to test it at both low (like 1 PSI) and higher pressures per the service manual. One of my whaler buddies had an engine that wouldn't leak at the pressure speced by the manual, but would leak at low pressure, and leak in the water. "Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Hello, Newb' here. I have what I hope is an easy question(s). About 5-6 years ago (I think) I "inherited" my uncle's old cedar planked reinel boat. It had a 1965 75 horse Evinrude on it (the real reason I wanted it). The problem was, it had sat in my uncle's yard for 18 years. He didn't do any up keep on the engine (or the boat). It got so that that the boat's transom rotted out. The guy who owned it before my uncle, had put in, I kid you not, 8 screws in each plank that connected to the plywood transom. I think that sped up some of the rotting. Subsequently, the motor stood in the mud (and halfways connected to the transom). Anyways, I junked the boat because I would've had to replace every piece of wood in order to fix it (I fell through part of it). But I kept the evinrude and the trailer. I built a structure to hold the engine, and got to work on getting it running. I was told that old johnson and evinrudes are bullet proof (and the fact my family has a 1962 75 horse Johnson, that's still working fine after 43 years says something) and that I should be able to get it running relatively easy. After I bought a new distributor cap, plug wires, and plugs I got it running like a champ. One thing that was nice (at least, I thought so) was the water spitting out of the exhaust (or whatever it comes out of) at a better rate than another engine I have access to (the aformentioned 62 Johnson). It even sounded stronger/healthier than the 62. My concern/question is this. In the garbage can I used to run it, the water got a layer of an oily substance on it's surface, after each time running. Now, I know that old boat engines (of this vintage) tend to leak oil (etc), but I was wondering if there could be another reason for that to have happened? Like (and I realize there are important bits of information that I'm leaving out, that could help better decipher the situation for you) maybe I had flooded it, or I might have put too much oil in the gas. I don't remember how much oil I put in (I'm fairly certain I put in the correct ratio) or if I flooded it. And since I haven't used/started the evinrude since, I really don't have any recent evidence to reference. Was it maybe that the garbage can I used was small enough that what oil/discharge would normally appear (and usually dissapated in a lake/river) just accumulated in the garbage can and appeared to be more than what was "normal"? Also, is there a way to check the gaskets without taking it apart? I hope this makes the least amount of sense. Thanks Dan |
Chuck Tribolet wrote: There shouldn't be ANY sheen at all. The lower unit can be pressure tested. Be sure to test it at both low (like 1 PSI) and higher pressures per the service manual. ok, dumb question. how would I go about doing that? if I do the test, what would the results imply is causing it? One of my whaler buddies had an engine that wouldn't leak at the pressure speced by the manual, but would leak at low pressure, and leak in the water. I know that our older engine leaks a bit, and there's always crap coming out of it when we take it out of the water, but we're never that low on lower unit lube (or other fluids). If all else fails, I might just take it to someone someday to have them look at it. |
"Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Hello, In the garbage can I used to run it, the water got a layer of an oily substance on it's surface, after each time running. Now, I know that old boat engines (of this vintage) tend to leak oil (etc), but I was wondering if there could be another reason for that to have happened? Those old motors were not environmentally friendly back then. They used "stutter valves" to blow excess oil accumulated in the crankcase overboard. At idle, they ran rich and much unburned fuel and oil were in the exhaust. If the thermostat is not operating and allowing the cylinders to get up to around 140 degrees, the fuel burn will be even more inefficient. The idle needles are adjustable and if set too rich, will also allow more unburned fuel into the water. So when you run the motor in a small environment, like a garbage can or feed trough, the fuel and oil make a film on the water very quickly. This is assuming that you don't have a leaking gearcase also. Bill Grannis service manager |
Billgran wrote: Those old motors were not environmentally friendly back then. They used "stutter valves" to blow excess oil accumulated in the crankcase overboard. At idle, they ran rich and much unburned fuel and oil were in the exhaust. If the thermostat is not operating and allowing the cylinders to get up to around 140 degrees, the fuel burn will be even more inefficient. The idle needles are adjustable and if set too rich, will also allow more unburned fuel into the water. yah, this I knew. I think there were several reasons why it was like this. Poor mixture, and I didn't set the carb right probably (it did smell rich when it was running, I forgot to mention that. Mostly because I just remembered it now) So when you run the motor in a small environment, like a garbage can or feed trough, the fuel and oil make a film on the water very quickly. This is assuming that you don't have a leaking gearcase also. Bill Grannis service manager thanks for the info/help. Is there a simple way to tell if I have a leaking gearcase? |
"Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message oups.com... thanks for the info/help. Is there a simple way to tell if I have a leaking gearcase? Pull the bottom drain plug and see if only oil comes out, or if it looks like a milkshake or plain water is there. Bill Grannis service manager |
Billgran wrote: "Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message oups.com... thanks for the info/help. Is there a simple way to tell if I have a leaking gearcase? Pull the bottom drain plug and see if only oil comes out, or if it looks like a milkshake or plain water is there. Bill Grannis service manager I know when I drained it originally, the color was darkish brown/black. I haven't done it since. I do know what to look for, as the older johnson has a greyish color to it. |
Check this out
http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ul...;f=36;t=000033 "Blazer Fan Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Hello, Newb' here. I have what I hope is an easy question(s). About 5-6 years ago (I think) I "inherited" my uncle's old cedar planked reinel boat. It had a 1965 75 horse Evinrude on it (the real reason I wanted it). The problem was, it had sat in my uncle's yard for 18 years. He didn't do any up keep on the engine (or the boat). It got so that that the boat's transom rotted out. The guy who owned it before my uncle, had put in, I kid you not, 8 screws in each plank that connected to the plywood transom. I think that sped up some of the rotting. Subsequently, the motor stood in the mud (and halfways connected to the transom). Anyways, I junked the boat because I would've had to replace every piece of wood in order to fix it (I fell through part of it). But I kept the evinrude and the trailer. I built a structure to hold the engine, and got to work on getting it running. I was told that old johnson and evinrudes are bullet proof (and the fact my family has a 1962 75 horse Johnson, that's still working fine after 43 years says something) and that I should be able to get it running relatively easy. After I bought a new distributor cap, plug wires, and plugs I got it running like a champ. One thing that was nice (at least, I thought so) was the water spitting out of the exhaust (or whatever it comes out of) at a better rate than another engine I have access to (the aformentioned 62 Johnson). It even sounded stronger/healthier than the 62. My concern/question is this. In the garbage can I used to run it, the water got a layer of an oily substance on it's surface, after each time running. Now, I know that old boat engines (of this vintage) tend to leak oil (etc), but I was wondering if there could be another reason for that to have happened? Like (and I realize there are important bits of information that I'm leaving out, that could help better decipher the situation for you) maybe I had flooded it, or I might have put too much oil in the gas. I don't remember how much oil I put in (I'm fairly certain I put in the correct ratio) or if I flooded it. And since I haven't used/started the evinrude since, I really don't have any recent evidence to reference. Was it maybe that the garbage can I used was small enough that what oil/discharge would normally appear (and usually dissapated in a lake/river) just accumulated in the garbage can and appeared to be more than what was "normal"? Also, is there a way to check the gaskets without taking it apart? I hope this makes the least amount of sense. Thanks Dan |
IBNFSHN wrote: Check this out http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ul...;f=36;t=000033 thanks, I was hoping there was a FAQ type page out there. |
black is bad. it means worn out oil with carbon particles (abrasive)
in suspension. |
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I just now drained the lower unit (after it sat for an additional 3
years since I last ran it) and the lower unit oil is a amberish/brown color. I do realize that the limited time that I ran it isn't really enough to decipher it is has a problem, but I'd think it's an added bonus if it's not in terrible shape. |
[This followup was posted to rec.boats and a copy was sent to the cited
author.] In article .com, says... I just now drained the lower unit (after it sat for an additional 3 years since I last ran it) and the lower unit oil is a amberish/brown color. I do realize that the limited time that I ran it isn't really enough to decipher it is has a problem, but I'd think it's an added bonus if it's not in terrible shape. Part of an engine oil's job, when lubricating the engine is to clean the engine of carbon deposits and such. Over time this causes the oil to darken. In a lower unit, where there is no combustion taking place, it is far more difficult if not impossible to determine the remaining lubricating properties of an old oil by color since there isn't combustion residues for the oil to pick up. Some darkening can be expected from normal heating caused by the unit in normal operation. It would be surprising if the color of oil in a lower unit were any color other then what you describe or the grayish emulsion resulting from a leaking seal allowing water into the unit. The exception would be extreme over heating of the oil in the unit, which can cause it to blacken. Of course, if that were the case, you'd probably know about the problem long before draining the unit. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
Mike G wrote: The exception would be extreme over heating of the oil in the unit, which can cause it to blacken. Of course, if that were the case, you'd probably know about the problem long before draining the unit. how would I be able to tell, if I've only used it in a bucket? -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
[This followup was posted to rec.boats and a copy was sent to the cited
author.] In article .com, says... how would I be able to tell, if I've only used it in a bucket? [quoted text muted] ? -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
Mike G wrote: [This followup was posted to rec.boats and a copy was sent to the cited author.] In article .com, says... how would I be able to tell, if I've only used it in a bucket? ? Sorry, I meant that I've only used it in a garbage can so far. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
With burned oil you can often feel grit (carbon particles) between
your fingers when you rub them together. It also smell burned. ed marine engine digest |
[This followup was posted to rec.boats and a copy was sent to the cited
author.] In article .com, says... Sorry, I meant that I've only used it in a garbage can so far. [quoted text muted] Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net Assuming you mean whether or not water is getting into the lower unit if you've only run the unit in a trash can of water. You're right, it isn't exactly a definitive test but if the engine had only sat for a season I'd say your probably ok but three years? Gaskets dry out, sealers get brittle, metal shrinks and expands. If you got no water in the lower unit in the trash can you may be alright but that could prove to be an expensive may be. Then of course there is the water pump impeller sitting down there, when did that get changed last? Personally, after having the boat sitting unused for that length of time I'd take the safe route, bite the bullet, drop the lower unit and replace the water pump and seal everything up anew. It's cheap insurance. Choice two, launch it and baby it around for ten or fifteen hours. If it doesn't overheat on you and you show no signs of water in the lower end oil put off the job till next season. Sometimes, without proper preparation, it's tougher on an engine to sit idle for years then it is for it to be run during the same period. Best of luck what ever route you chose. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
Mike G wrote: Assuming you mean whether or not water is getting into the lower unit if you've only run the unit in a trash can of water. You're right, it isn't exactly a definitive test but if the engine had only sat for a season I'd say your probably ok but three years? well, it sat before for 18 years (at least). The exhaust had far more water in it than another engine of the same vintage that I have. It was pretty much consistant spitting out a lot of water when it was running. I don't know if that the water pump was working fine, but it seemed to be spitting out a lot of water. Gaskets dry out, sealers get brittle, metal shrinks and expands. If you got no water in the lower unit in the trash can you may be alright but that could prove to be an expensive may be. true, but since it's (as of right now) just an extra engine (might be a "parts" engine for the 62). Someday I might rebuild it (if the parts are still available at a reasonable price). Then of course there is the water pump impeller sitting down there, when did that get changed last? no idea if it's ever been replaced. My uncle had it for a while, but I doubt he changed it ever. I know we've never changed the one our older boat (the 62). Personally, after having the boat sitting unused for that length of time I'd take the safe route, bite the bullet, drop the lower unit and replace the water pump and seal everything up anew. It's cheap insurance. I might do that someday, and if it's easier than I think, I'd probably do it with the other one too. Choice two, launch it and baby it around for ten or fifteen hours. If it doesn't overheat on you and you show no signs of water in the lower end oil put off the job till next season. Sometimes, without proper preparation, it's tougher on an engine to sit idle for years then it is for it to be run during the same period. Best of luck what ever route you chose. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
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