And why is that? Do I have to disconnect my solar panels when I run the
engine?

Assuming you have a photovoltaic charge controller, ordinarily not. AFAIK. As
an unaplogetic ol'stinkpotter, I'm not extremely well acquainted with solar
panels. You would be better prepared to discuss them than I.

Beyond that, I'm not interested in firing up another anal retentive ****ing
contest of dueling websites with you, Jeff.

If you have a contrasting opinion that it is advisable to run the battery
charger and the alternator at the same time, please present it.

Actually, I was honestly wondering if there was a specific reason. I had been
given that advice many years ago (always disconnect shore power before starting)
but in fact I have done it many times with no ill affects. Since my system
frequently has several charging devices running (2 alternators + solar) I would
think that the only item at risk would be the shore power charger, a Heart 2000.
I've scanned the manual and found nothing warning against starting the engine
while the charger is running, but perhaps I missed something.

I can think of two problems: first is the possibility of starting with a dead
battery so the full load is on the charger. Of course, my presumption is that
the boat has been on shore power for a while, and a dead battery is unlikely.
The other is that different "smart" regulators and chargers will get conflicting
signals as to the charge state - from time to time I've had my big alternator
with its smart regulator decide to go into float mode and the load shifts over
to the other smaller alternator.

However, neither of these issues are a real concern if all I'm doing is running
the engines at the dock for some test. So I'll repeat the question: Why must
you remove the shore power before starting? What is at risk? Is this a
holdover from the days of more primitive equipment?



"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
And why is that? Do I have to disconnect my solar panels when I run the
engine?

Assuming you have a photovoltaic charge controller, ordinarily not. AFAIK. As
an unaplogetic ol'stinkpotter, I'm not extremely well acquainted with solar
panels. You would be better prepared to discuss them than I.

Beyond that, I'm not interested in firing up another anal retentive ****ing
contest of dueling websites with you, Jeff.

If you have a contrasting opinion that it is advisable to run the battery
charger and the alternator at the same time, please present it.

I also start my engine with the charger hooked up and running and like Jeff
do not remember seeing warnings in the manual. I guess the only fear is
starting the engine with a weak battery that needed the charger to supply
enough amps. The next time you start the engine (maybe 20 miles offshore)
you find a weak battery that has to little gas. That condition you would
like to discover at the dock where a replacement battery is minutes away.


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Actually, I was honestly wondering if there was a specific reason. I had
been
given that advice many years ago (always disconnect shore power before
starting)
but in fact I have done it many times with no ill affects. Since my
system
frequently has several charging devices running (2 alternators + solar) I
would
think that the only item at risk would be the shore power charger, a Heart
2000.
I've scanned the manual and found nothing warning against starting the
engine
while the charger is running, but perhaps I missed something.

I can think of two problems: first is the possibility of starting with a
dead
battery so the full load is on the charger. Of course, my presumption is
that
the boat has been on shore power for a while, and a dead battery is
unlikely.
The other is that different "smart" regulators and chargers will get
conflicting
signals as to the charge state - from time to time I've had my big
alternator
with its smart regulator decide to go into float mode and the load shifts
over
to the other smaller alternator.

However, neither of these issues are a real concern if all I'm doing is
running
the engines at the dock for some test. So I'll repeat the question: Why
must
you remove the shore power before starting? What is at risk? Is this a
holdover from the days of more primitive equipment?



"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
And why is that? Do I have to disconnect my solar panels when I run
the
engine?

Assuming you have a photovoltaic charge controller, ordinarily not.
AFAIK. As
an unaplogetic ol'stinkpotter, I'm not extremely well acquainted with
solar
panels. You would be better prepared to discuss them than I.

Beyond that, I'm not interested in firing up another anal retentive
****ing
contest of dueling websites with you, Jeff.

If you have a contrasting opinion that it is advisable to run the
battery
charger and the alternator at the same time, please present it.

Add a third to the list. One of my boats has an old ferro-resonant type
charger, the other has a smart charger. The former boat has Volvo diesels,
the latter has Cats. Both boats have 110 volt generators. When getting
underway, I fire up the engines, disconnect shore power, usually start up
the generators (which also powers the chargers), and get underway. Once in
a while I remember the charger is still on and will turn it off at the
electrical panel, but most of the time they run along with the alternator.
Never had any problems. I suspect the chargers simply back off the current
output since the alternator can supply much more current.

As I think about it though, this may not be a good idea, although I can't
think of an electrical reason why it would hurt anything. Good question.

Eisboch

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
I also start my engine with the charger hooked up and running and like
Jeff
do not remember seeing warnings in the manual. I guess the only fear is
starting the engine with a weak battery that needed the charger to supply
enough amps. The next time you start the engine (maybe 20 miles offshore)
you find a weak battery that has to little gas. That condition you would
like to discover at the dock where a replacement battery is minutes away.


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Actually, I was honestly wondering if there was a specific reason. I
had
been
given that advice many years ago (always disconnect shore power before
starting)
but in fact I have done it many times with no ill affects. Since my
system
frequently has several charging devices running (2 alternators + solar)
I
would
think that the only item at risk would be the shore power charger, a
Heart
2000.
I've scanned the manual and found nothing warning against starting the
engine
while the charger is running, but perhaps I missed something.

I can think of two problems: first is the possibility of starting with a
dead
battery so the full load is on the charger. Of course, my presumption
is
that
the boat has been on shore power for a while, and a dead battery is
unlikely.
The other is that different "smart" regulators and chargers will get
conflicting
signals as to the charge state - from time to time I've had my big
alternator
with its smart regulator decide to go into float mode and the load
shifts
over
to the other smaller alternator.

However, neither of these issues are a real concern if all I'm doing is
running
the engines at the dock for some test. So I'll repeat the question:
Why
must
you remove the shore power before starting? What is at risk? Is this a
holdover from the days of more primitive equipment?



"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
And why is that? Do I have to disconnect my solar panels when I run
the
engine?

Assuming you have a photovoltaic charge controller, ordinarily not.
AFAIK. As
an unaplogetic ol'stinkpotter, I'm not extremely well acquainted with
solar
panels. You would be better prepared to discuss them than I.

Beyond that, I'm not interested in firing up another anal retentive
****ing
contest of dueling websites with you, Jeff.

If you have a contrasting opinion that it is advisable to run the
battery
charger and the alternator at the same time, please present it.

99% of chagrin sources are voltage controlled if controlled at all. If an
alternator sees a higher voltage then it is set at it simply stops charging,
the same with sophisticated shore power chargers.

The most popular problem with continues shore charging is that a battery will
get a surface charge. This has caused several people to think that their
batteries were good and found out that after a brief time with out a charge
source they could not start.

Just my personal experience.

Mike

I hear you, brother - my batteries have caused me some chagrin over the
years too!

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"MIDEMETZ" wrote in message
...
99% of chagrin sources are voltage controlled if controlled at all...

99% of chagrin sources are voltage controlled if controlled at all. If an
alternator sees a higher voltage then it is set at it simply stops charging,
the same with sophisticated shore power chargers.

The most popular problem with continues shore charging is that a battery will
get a surface charge. This has caused several people to think that their
batteries were good and found out that after a brief time with out a charge
source they could not start.

Most people who leave a boat in a slip will want to keep the batteries fully
charged.
A decent charer will bring the batteries to 13.2 or 13.3 and then supply only
enough
juice to sustain them at this level. If a through-hull should fail, a bilge
alarm, an adequate pump, and a fully charged battery might slow the net
flooding down enough and attract sufficient attention to save the boat.
Starting with a partially discharged battery is an unneeded handicap. If the
battery is discharging to run a bilge pump, but is being simultaneously
recharged, the number of hours the pump can run will be significantly extended.

Starting the boat with the battery charger running can disguise a weak battery.

Turning on the battery charger once the engine is running will not, ordinarily,
increase the rate at which the battery is being charged. See note below about
proper wiring.

There is an upper voltage limit on some of the regulators and controllers used
to regulate charging from alternators, AC converters, or any other sources like
wind or solar. In some 12-volt system cases, this is 26-28 volts. An alternator
pumping out 14-15 volts and an AC converter doing the same could blow out some
of these components. I have direct knowledge of
an alternator that required a rebuild. According to the rebuild shop, the
damage was "consistent with the things we see when people run their battery
charger and their alternator at the same time."

If a boat is properly wired, there may be only minimal risk of screwing
something up by running the alternator and the AC converter at the same time. A
good portion of the new boats coming off the assembly lines and a likely
majority of boats that have had any electrical cobbling done after manufacture
are not properly wired.

When I worked as a broker, I would never start somebody else's boat with the
shorepower running. Why risk it? If a boat wasn't going to start without the
charger running, the time to address and correct that was *before* a
prospective buyer came aboard.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
....

Starting the boat with the battery charger running can disguise a weak
battery.

This is true, especially if your only way of measuring charge state is to look
for 13.2 Volts, which gives you no information. By starting the engine on the
battery you are performing an informal "load test." If you only use your boat
infrequently, this is a good idea.

BTW, if you use a battery combiner it will likely disconnect the starting
battery from the charger when you start. If you use an echocharge, the starting
battery is only seeing 10 amps from the charger.


Turning on the battery charger once the engine is running will not,
ordinarily,
increase the rate at which the battery is being charged. See note below about
proper wiring.

This is generally true, though it depends on the component size. The "standard"
configuration for my boat is two 9.9 hp outboards that only have 10 Amp
alternators - they won't fill the charging capacity of the stock 425 Amp-hours
of the main bank.



There is an upper voltage limit on some of the regulators and controllers used
to regulate charging from alternators, AC converters, or any other sources
like
wind or solar. In some 12-volt system cases, this is 26-28 volts.

Whoa! What's that? My charger could put out 28 volts? Or are you saying they
could be hurt by that much voltage?

An alternator
pumping out 14-15 volts and an AC converter doing the same could blow out some
of these components.

Are you claiming we have to add up all of the voltages of the various charge
sources? If your boat is miswired so this could happen I would think you'd want
to find out about it real quick!

I have direct knowledge of
an alternator that required a rebuild. According to the rebuild shop, the
damage was "consistent with the things we see when people run their battery
charger and their alternator at the same time."

Sounds rather jaxian to me. Are you sure you understood what he said? What
actually got damaged? I run two engines, each with an alternator, one of them
capable of putting out 100 Amps. Why isn't this the same thing? Why aren't
there hundreds of twin engine boats blowing alternators every day?

You still haven't told us what you think will blow.



If a boat is properly wired, there may be only minimal risk of screwing
something up by running the alternator and the AC converter at the same time.
A
good portion of the new boats coming off the assembly lines and a likely
majority of boats that have had any electrical cobbling done after manufacture
are not properly wired.

What kind of miswiring are you talking about? Isn't it more important to find
those problems?


When I worked as a broker, I would never start somebody else's boat with the
shorepower running. Why risk it? If a boat wasn't going to start without the
charger running, the time to address and correct that was *before* a
prospective buyer came aboard.

I suppose its always prudent to test the starting battery on a boat you've never
taken out before. This is different from saying "you should not try to charge
the battery from the charger and run the engine".

Gould,

Very interesting information. I wish I knew where to find out more about the
theory and practice of these things.

I have read conflicting things about the safety of AC chargers and
alternator chargers running simultaneously, but as someone who has blown an
alternator and a voltage regulator over the past two seasons, I say why risk
it.

Now - how to remember always to turn off the AC charger before starting the
engine...

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
...
There is an upper voltage limit on some of the regulators and controllers
used
to regulate charging from alternators, AC converters, or any other sources
like
wind or solar. In some 12-volt system cases, this is 26-28 volts. An
alternator
pumping out 14-15 volts and an AC converter doing the same could blow out
some
of these components. I have direct knowledge of
an alternator that required a rebuild...