$1.00 to the Winner...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Yo Ho is at the dealership for diagnosis and repair of a minor electrical
anomaly. This past week, while running with the battery switch on "BOTH,"
and cruising at 4000 rpm, I noticed that the voltmeter, after about an
hour, dropped to 11.6 volts.

I shut the engine off, switched onto one battery, and the voltage went up
to about 13.5 volts, then after about an hour dropped again.

All the battery connections are tight.

I'm guessing voltage regulator, but that's just a guess.

A brand new $1.00 to whoever guesses what the dealer's mechanic diagnoses
and repairs.

WNL=Within Normal Limits

Harry, what engine set up does your baot have?

that can tell a lot.

Tim

Under warranty= they will find nothing wrong.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:04:19 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Yo Ho is at the dealership for diagnosis and repair of a minor
electrical anomaly. This past week, while running with the battery
switch on "BOTH," and cruising at 4000 rpm, I noticed that the
voltmeter, after about an hour, dropped to 11.6 volts.

I shut the engine off, switched onto one battery, and the voltage went
up to about 13.5 volts, then after about an hour dropped again.

All the battery connections are tight.

I'm guessing voltage regulator, but that's just a guess.

A brand new $1.00 to whoever guesses what the dealer's mechanic
diagnoses and repairs.

Expensive.

Send me my dollar.


Free. It's still in warranty.

Try again.

I really don't think it's the VR/rectifier. But then again I deal with
automotive which is a different system then outboards.


if the symptom was irratic then yes I'd say VR. I may (and probably
am) wrong, but I just feel like it's a lousy wire connection.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:


Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual on
inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards. When I
pick up the boat, I'm going to stop at the parts department and ask to see
one of these water-cooled regulators, or at least the parts book schematic
of one. I'll post the drawing if I can get a copy of one.

I just did a search on "water cooled voltage regulator". I got quite a
few hits. Including:

http://www.mercstuff.com/regulator.htm

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:52:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:


Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on
inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards. When
I
pick up the boat, I'm going to stop at the parts department and ask to
see
of one. I'll post the drawing if I can get a copy of one.

I just did a search on "water cooled voltage regulator". I got quite a
few hits. Including:

http://www.mercstuff.com/regulator.htm

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind that one.

Really.


I can. The voltage regulator has to drop excess voltage (above the
12.8-13.5 volts) of the fully charged battery. The unregulated output of
the alternator is probably around 16-18 volts depending on engine rpm. So,
assuming the regulator has to drop, say, 4 volts, the wattage at 10 amps
would be 40 watts. How long can you hold a lit 40 watt light bulb in your
hand?

Unlike a car engine compartment where there is plenty of convective heat
transfer and the regulator electronic components can be mounted on air
cooled heat sinks, all the components inside the cowling on an outboard can
only get rid of excess heat via transfer to the water. Bolting the
regulator to a water cooled surface is one option, assuming the heat
transfer is adequate. Water cooling the regulator housing itself is
another.

Eisboch

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards.

I thought your fantasy boat had a diesel inboard, Harry. Guess it's hard
to keep up with all the fantasies, eh. The memory is the second thing to
go, and I've forgotten the first... :)

Lloyd

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards.

I thought your fantasy boat had a diesel inboard, Harry. Guess it's hard
to keep up with all the fantasies, eh. The memory is the second thing to
go, and I've forgotten the first... :)

Lloyd


So you noticed that also Lloyd? :-)

Lloyd,
Harry keeps stumbling all over your fantasies. I wonder if he was able to
keep up with them when he was younger?


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards.

I thought your fantasy boat had a diesel inboard, Harry. Guess it's hard
to keep up with all the fantasies, eh. The memory is the second thing to
go, and I've forgotten the first... :)

Lloyd

Starbucks wrote:
Lloyd,
Harry keeps stumbling all over your fantasies. I wonder if he was able to
keep up with them when he was younger?


Harry stumbles over Lloyd's fantasies??
Maybe you're thinking about the S&M leather clad lady Lloyd used to mention.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:49:35 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards.

I thought your fantasy boat had a diesel inboard, Harry. Guess it's hard
to keep up with all the fantasies, eh. The memory is the second thing to
go, and I've forgotten the first... :)

Lloyd



I have several boats, Lloyd, and, unlike your collection, mine has no
junkers.

But.. but... a gas INBOARD, Harry? Not an outboard? Say it ain't so, Harry
- say it ain't so! :)

Had some fun on my "junker" last weekend: 20-25kn SE, 4-6ft seas, crossed
Georgia St averaging over 7 knots (and burned ZERO dinosaurs!) Oh, and
when I did start the engine, it ran. Fine. No charging problems, unlike
yours...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" 1982 Catalina 36

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:49:35 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards.

I thought your fantasy boat had a diesel inboard, Harry. Guess it's hard
to keep up with all the fantasies, eh. The memory is the second thing to
go, and I've forgotten the first... :)

Lloyd



I have several boats, Lloyd, and, unlike your collection, mine has no
junkers.


ROTFLMAO.

"*JimH*" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:49:35 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:14:02 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

Yeah, I mumbled something about that. I was told such were not unusual
on inboard gas engines. I have no experience with modern gas inboards.

I thought your fantasy boat had a diesel inboard, Harry. Guess it's
hard
to keep up with all the fantasies, eh. The memory is the second thing
to
go, and I've forgotten the first... :)

Lloyd



I have several boats, Lloyd, and, unlike your collection, mine has no
junkers.


ROTFLMAO.



BTW: The laughter was aimed at you Krause. *Several* boats? Perhaps
your modest 24 foot Parker , a canoe and a rowboat.....eh? I think Lloyd
owns more boats than that.

Hee-hee.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...


I'm no outboard guru, but that is a pretty stupid application of
engineering if that is the way the thing works.

Since this thing is a *regulator* is should regulate the current in
the stator and thus regulate the amount of current generated..... not
drop the voltage of an unregulated power source. Bear in mind that
this is a 200hp (+-) modern engine not a 1962 10 hp model that was
never designed with electronics, etc. in mind....

IMHO, this is probably more about using undersized solid state
components that must be cooled to (1) maintain predictable design ohms
and/or (2) keep from bursting into flame....


Maybe, but since it's called a voltage regulator I suspect it regulates
voltage, not current. True, it does regulate current to the battery by
limiting the applied voltage, thus less current flow. The excess voltage
developed by the alternator has to be dropped and the power or wattage
resulting generates heat. If it didn't get hot it would not be water cooled.

Eisboch

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:59:58 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


Wouldn't it make more sense to cut the source out of the system and let it
idle until it's needed? It would mean that you would have the battery in
the system acting as a supply and a buffer, but it would allow for free
wheeliing the alternator gearing with a solenoid like you do with a truck
air compressor or a AC compressor.

If I'm understanding all this correctly, some do:

http://www.marineparts.com/partspage.../470%20Kit.htm

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

If it works the way I suspect, there is no excessive voltage......
but, then....


If it didn't get hot it would not be water cooled.

Agreed.

--

Gene, I suspect your understanding of how it works is far more accurate than
mine.
(my electrical knowledge is very dated).

Eisboch

Here's a real nutshell explaination.

Well, on an outboard, the Stator (winding) is made under the flywheel
instead of being configured into abelt driven package. Instead of a
field rotor, (automotive) the Yamaha has magnets mounted inside the
flywheel to draw a field. the automotive alternator, is actually a
3-phase DC generator (for lack of better terms) while the outboard is 2
phase.

they both do the same thing, jsut way different ways of doing it.

Tim

Yes, the telltale that tells you whether the engine is being cooled
properly by raw water was clogged.


The voltage regulator in the engine is WATER COOLER and draws its
cooling water through the telltale plumbing.


So the voltage regulator was NOT BEING COOLED properly and it reacted
by
giving me those voltage variant readings.


After I stopped laughing, the service manager said, "No, I'm not
kidding."


Well, I have no reason to think he's lying...but it is among the

================================================== ==============

Cripes! what will they think of next??? I can believe it!

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:25:26 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 29 Aug 2005 18:51:01 -0700, "Tim" wrote:

I really don't think it's the VR/rectifier. But then again I deal with
automotive which is a different system then outboards.
Funny you should mention that. I know a mechanic who had a problem
with a Honda 225 - couldn't find it. The documentation was sparse and
the "factory" rep was really a salesman.

He finally went down the street to a Honda dealership and "borrowed" a
Honda engine guy - had it fixed in no time. :)
That's pretty cool.

I have heard that story from two other marina mechanics - apparently
Honda takes the approach that "our engines never break, so why should
we spend money on factory schools or service reps?"

I've also heard, second hand so it's suspect but the source is
reliable, that parts are a problem with Hondas for the same reason.



Well, the boat dealer's assistant service manager called, and...

this is hard to believe, but...


The reason the voltmeter was giving flakey readings was because the
cooling telltale (aka "the ****er") exiting the motor was "clogged."

Say what?

Yes, the telltale that tells you whether the engine is being cooled
properly by raw water was clogged.

The voltage regulator in the engine is WATER COOLER and draws its cooling
water through the telltale plumbing.

So the voltage regulator was NOT BEING COOLED properly and it reacted by
giving me those voltage variant readings.

After I stopped laughing, the service manager said, "No, I'm not kidding."

Well, I have no reason to think he's lying...but it is among the weirdest
things I've heard this week.


Maybe he was trying to save you a dollar. Nobody would have guessed that as
the answer.

I still say WNL.

Eisboch wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

If it works the way I suspect, there is no excessive voltage......
but, then....



If it didn't get hot it would not be water cooled.

Agreed.

--


Gene, I suspect your understanding of how it works is far more accurate than
mine.
(my electrical knowledge is very dated).

Eisboch




However, that kind of heat suggests the surplus energy from the
generator is being dumped rather than the generator itself being
regulated. I don't know, but that does seem to be a bit dated.

-Raf

--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert

http://www.ralphandsue.com