"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.

Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.




Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough flotation
properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.

Bayliners? With I/O's?

Bayliners are mostly I/O's. Very few are O/B's.

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.
Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.



Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough flotation
properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.

Bayliners? With I/O's?



The powerhead in an I/O typically is lower in the hull than an outboard
powerhead might be, and that might improve the boat's chances of
remaining afloat, if awash, assuming it has sufficient flotation.

I have seen capsized Whalers in my lifetime. They're floating, but
upside down. You put two 500-pound outboard powerheads on the stern of a
big Whaler, flip it, and then tell me it righted itself. Doubtful. If it
is awash and in heavy seas, it might flip.

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.
Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.



Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough flotation
properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.
Bayliners? With I/O's?

Bayliners are mostly I/O's. Very few are O/B's.





Bayliner makes a line of boats called "Trophy," and the smaller ones and
several of the larger ones are outboard-equipped.

I'm not a big fan of I/O's, but I understand why some people like them.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.
Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.



Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough flotation
properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.

Bayliners? With I/O's?



The powerhead in an I/O typically is lower in the hull than an outboard
powerhead might be, and that might improve the boat's chances of remaining
afloat, if awash, assuming it has sufficient flotation.

I have seen capsized Whalers in my lifetime. They're floating, but upside
down. You put two 500-pound outboard powerheads on the stern of a big
Whaler, flip it, and then tell me it righted itself. Doubtful. If it is
awash and in heavy seas, it might flip.

Yes, they could flip. My brother took a huge rogue wave over the bow of his
18' Outrage while 18 miles from shore. The boat filled right up to the top
of the gunnel with water. He said that the boat became very tippy for a
moment, but the engine remained running and he just powered forward, the bow
popped up, and most of the water rushed out the large notched transom in the
back. That's one of the reasons why I'm a fan of the older Whalers with
notched transoms. You don't have very long before a swamped boat flips, so
you need to get that water out in a hurry. Throttling up is the quickest
way to do it.

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.
Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.


Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough flotation
properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.
Bayliners? With I/O's?


The powerhead in an I/O typically is lower in the hull than an outboard
powerhead might be, and that might improve the boat's chances of remaining
afloat, if awash, assuming it has sufficient flotation.

I have seen capsized Whalers in my lifetime. They're floating, but upside
down. You put two 500-pound outboard powerheads on the stern of a big
Whaler, flip it, and then tell me it righted itself. Doubtful. If it is
awash and in heavy seas, it might flip.

Yes, they could flip. My brother took a huge rogue wave over the bow of his
18' Outrage while 18 miles from shore. The boat filled right up to the top
of the gunnel with water. He said that the boat became very tippy for a
moment, but the engine remained running and he just powered forward, the bow
popped up, and most of the water rushed out the large notched transom in the
back. That's one of the reasons why I'm a fan of the older Whalers with
notched transoms. You don't have very long before a swamped boat flips, so
you need to get that water out in a hurry. Throttling up is the quickest
way to do it.



I swamped one of my first SeaPro's once. I was anchored at a beach, and
I had the anchor line tied to the bow cleat. A sudden windstorm came up,
and waves started breaking over the bow. The boat was filling with water
faster than the drain plugs could unload it. I sliced off the anchor
line, gave the engine some RPMs and drained the water over the stern, as
your brother did. That would NOT be do-able on my Parker, because it has
a full transom and a bracket. The boat has a lot of flotation below the
deck, but my guess is it would sink like a stone if it filled with water.

Speaking of sinking like stones, I've decided to always wear my
inflatable life vest when I go forward to mess with the anchor. I'm a
good swimmer, but you just never know.

Lol - thats one of those things that you only do once!



"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Not that anyone would set out to actually "test"
this, but I wonder how long it would take for
a new bayliner 175 bowrider to sink if one were
to launch without a drain plug. Anyone know ?
Ok, ok, so I need to come clean here... Yeah,
I'm stoopid, I launched without a drain plug. Yikes.
I always leave the plug in, and never take it out,
and I got complacent and haven't been doing
due diligence in checking the stupid drain plug.
Went in salt water the day before for the first
time, so I had to hose the thing out late last night.
Let it drip over night, and never thought to check
it - it's been absent from my regular routine. So,
local lake, public fishing launch area (seperate
from main rat-race launch lane, requires the
state Vehicle Use permit for fishing). Dumped
it in, tied it up, ran the truck up to park it, walked
down, untied it, got it, started it, and started to
pull out. Engine sounding a little funny, idle a
little weird, (Merc 3.0L I/O), acceleration all
weired, mushy, and just slugish. I look over
my sholder at the engine compartment, and said
now thats odd - water splashing out of the edge
of the engine cover on the bottom near the carpet.
Thought, humm, fan must be picking up water
left over from last nights hose-off, and throwing
it around the inside of the engine cover. No big.
DOH! 2.5 seconds I realized, Whoa! - I ain't
not fan - this ain't a car engine (well it is, but)...
Hol-Lee **** buckets - it sank it (no pun) that
I left the plug in. Panicsville!. Wham! - reach
over the steering wheel with both hands and
throw ALL switches upwards cause I ain't got
time to read each one to see which is the pump.
Engine chugging pretty good by now. Boat starting
to head into rocks - depth finder shows less than
2 feet. I can't let it stall, I can't let it stall, thats
all I kept saying to myself. Bang it into reverse
and jump up on that throttle and get her out from
the rocks a bit, whew, now in about 10 feet of
water just out from the launch a bit. Think quick.
Bingo, the plug is teathered (to the oil drain hose).
Without thought, wham, swan-dive off the back
of the boat, keys, smokes, rolaids, pockets full.
Flailed around the bottom, felt the plug dangling,
and fumbled around, but got it threaded in, and
hand tight. Whew, gonna need that cold beer
after THIS one I thought as I grasped the ladder.
(too bad I won't have any dry smokes, eh).
Anyways, get back up in the boat, bilage pump
pumping like a big dog, and I'm drifting towards
the rocks again. Damn. Throw her into gear,
get out more in the center, and catch my breath.
Engine still chugging and not running good at all.
Afraid to open engine cover, but I know I gotta.
Open her up, and hol-lee-****.... My engine is
drenched, water up to, and maybe past the crank,
holey f-ing crap, I just can't believe this has happened.
Sun. Sun is good. Sun is "hot", Sun dries **** I'm
thinking. Leave the cover off. Keep her running,
I can't let it stall I kept thinking. Water level. Do
I see the water level going down? No!... wtf?
Water coming out the side? yup, rolling out like
a big dog. Dang, whats taking so long then?
Calm down. Crack that beer, it'll be Ok. Smokes?
nope - all soggy, dry ones up in the truck. Balls.
Hey! - engines sounding better! (is it the beer ?)
hell no!, I just opened it. Water level ? Ahhhhh
who da man, huh? - look at dat! - water goning down.
I'll just hang out here, and let that water quit spurting
out the side. Dang, isn't it been like a half-hour now?
Andway, but the time the bilage pump was done, the
engine was bone dry from the sun, and hot enough
to fry an egg on (from the sun on that Phantom black).
Close we up, sop up the water on the carpet, and
go have fun. Dang, that was close I thought.
...or was it? 2-3 hours goes buy, the 24-oz Bug Lite's
gone, and time to start heading in. Replaying the
whole thing in my mind, I got to wondering just how
long could I have let that plug out? what would happen?
water would fill up the engine compartment to the point
that it was overflowing on the main deck, and carpet.
At whcih point, what, drain into that center section
with the door where you keep the life vests etc?
Was that pit already full? - I didn't check that while
the engine compartment was full of water. I'm thinking
that due to the design/layout of this boat (with all of
the sections/compartments and such, that it might not
sink as fast as one might think. Ideas, thoughts ?

Thanks

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.

Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.




Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough flotation
properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.

Bayliners? With I/O's?

Why do you ask? Many, if not most are I/O's.

Current boats 20' have to have "level floation". That means the Bayliner
wouldn't sink, but an awful lot of stuff would get wet.

A couple of motivated guys with buckets can stay ahead of the
the drain plug. Several years ago this blonde (no kidding) launches
her boat (one of those low freeboard V8 ski boats that were popular
about 1980), ties it up, and heads off to park the truck and grab a
burger. We were hanging out on the dock while a couple of folks used
the head on shore. A few minutes later we noticed that her boat had a list
and was kinda low in the water. We couldn't find the hole the water was
coming in (turns out there was drain way under that V8), the bilge pump
switch didn't make anything happen (hardware store wiring with those really
dumb ScotchLock splices), so we grabbed the
bailing bucket off my whaler and another bucket from somewhere and
started bailing. We were gaining on it when she showed up, put the
plug in, and sweet talked the marina mech into bringing down a bilge pump
with jumper cables on it to fiinish the dewatering job.

And before some wise ass Bayliner driver asks "why a bailing bucket on
a Boston Whaler, I thought they are unsinkable":

1. Required to pass the USCGA Courtesy Marine Exam each year.

2. Useful for dumping a bucket or two of water on the mutt to cool him off,

3. It's also the trash bag (one of those behind the passenger seat auto
trash bags).

4. They really are unsinkable, but if you get complacent, Neptune will find
a way.


"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Not that anyone would set out to actually "test"
this, but I wonder how long it would take for
a new bayliner 175 bowrider to sink if one were
to launch without a drain plug. Anyone know ?
Ok, ok, so I need to come clean here... Yeah,
I'm stoopid, I launched without a drain plug. Yikes.
I always leave the plug in, and never take it out,
and I got complacent and haven't been doing
due diligence in checking the stupid drain plug.
Went in salt water the day before for the first
time, so I had to hose the thing out late last night.
Let it drip over night, and never thought to check
it - it's been absent from my regular routine. So,
local lake, public fishing launch area (seperate
from main rat-race launch lane, requires the
state Vehicle Use permit for fishing). Dumped
it in, tied it up, ran the truck up to park it, walked
down, untied it, got it, started it, and started to
pull out. Engine sounding a little funny, idle a
little weird, (Merc 3.0L I/O), acceleration all
weired, mushy, and just slugish. I look over
my sholder at the engine compartment, and said
now thats odd - water splashing out of the edge
of the engine cover on the bottom near the carpet.
Thought, humm, fan must be picking up water
left over from last nights hose-off, and throwing
it around the inside of the engine cover. No big.
DOH! 2.5 seconds I realized, Whoa! - I ain't
not fan - this ain't a car engine (well it is, but)...
Hol-Lee **** buckets - it sank it (no pun) that
I left the plug in. Panicsville!. Wham! - reach
over the steering wheel with both hands and
throw ALL switches upwards cause I ain't got
time to read each one to see which is the pump.
Engine chugging pretty good by now. Boat starting
to head into rocks - depth finder shows less than
2 feet. I can't let it stall, I can't let it stall, thats
all I kept saying to myself. Bang it into reverse
and jump up on that throttle and get her out from
the rocks a bit, whew, now in about 10 feet of
water just out from the launch a bit. Think quick.
Bingo, the plug is teathered (to the oil drain hose).
Without thought, wham, swan-dive off the back
of the boat, keys, smokes, rolaids, pockets full.
Flailed around the bottom, felt the plug dangling,
and fumbled around, but got it threaded in, and
hand tight. Whew, gonna need that cold beer
after THIS one I thought as I grasped the ladder.
(too bad I won't have any dry smokes, eh).
Anyways, get back up in the boat, bilage pump
pumping like a big dog, and I'm drifting towards
the rocks again. Damn. Throw her into gear,
get out more in the center, and catch my breath.
Engine still chugging and not running good at all.
Afraid to open engine cover, but I know I gotta.
Open her up, and hol-lee-****.... My engine is
drenched, water up to, and maybe past the crank,
holey f-ing crap, I just can't believe this has happened.
Sun. Sun is good. Sun is "hot", Sun dries **** I'm
thinking. Leave the cover off. Keep her running,
I can't let it stall I kept thinking. Water level. Do
I see the water level going down? No!... wtf?
Water coming out the side? yup, rolling out like
a big dog. Dang, whats taking so long then?
Calm down. Crack that beer, it'll be Ok. Smokes?
nope - all soggy, dry ones up in the truck. Balls.
Hey! - engines sounding better! (is it the beer ?)
hell no!, I just opened it. Water level ? Ahhhhh
who da man, huh? - look at dat! - water goning down.
I'll just hang out here, and let that water quit spurting
out the side. Dang, isn't it been like a half-hour now?
Andway, but the time the bilage pump was done, the
engine was bone dry from the sun, and hot enough
to fry an egg on (from the sun on that Phantom black).
Close we up, sop up the water on the carpet, and
go have fun. Dang, that was close I thought.
...or was it? 2-3 hours goes buy, the 24-oz Bug Lite's
gone, and time to start heading in. Replaying the
whole thing in my mind, I got to wondering just how
long could I have let that plug out? what would happen?
water would fill up the engine compartment to the point
that it was overflowing on the main deck, and carpet.
At whcih point, what, drain into that center section
with the door where you keep the life vests etc?
Was that pit already full? - I didn't check that while
the engine compartment was full of water. I'm thinking
that due to the design/layout of this boat (with all of
the sections/compartments and such, that it might not
sink as fast as one might think. Ideas, thoughts ?

Thanks

The worst part of the forgotten plug scenario is the aftermath in a few
months. The rust that shows up in starters, etc.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"roadburner" roadburner^at^comcast^dot^net wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:35:26 GMT, "Stanley Barthfarkle"

wrote:



If you accidentally launched without a drain plug and you pulled your
trailer up and away, could one be quick witted enough to start the engine
and accelerate away draining the water? Then put in a backup drain plug
from
the inside? Just a thought.

Dude, I never thought of that! Having survived
a plug-less launch, I'm a little less worked up
about the whole thing to where I'd feel confortable
with trying something like that. Problem for me is,
that with an I/O, its a little hard to get back in there
from the inside. I'm thinking that what is needed
is one of them 1/4 turn ball-valves with the long
handle on it. Plumb that up from the inside, and
fashon up a cable to open/close that sumbitch.


Regards,
roadburner

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Wiz,
Just so you know; all boats built after 19?? and under 20 feet are
required to have level floatation built in.
Those boats won't float the powerhead though. A Whaler will.



Not necessarily true. Any number of outboard boats have enough
flotation properly placed to float the boat and its powerhead.

Bayliners? With I/O's?



The powerhead in an I/O typically is lower in the hull than an outboard
powerhead might be, and that might improve the boat's chances of
remaining afloat, if awash, assuming it has sufficient flotation.

I have seen capsized Whalers in my lifetime. They're floating, but upside
down. You put two 500-pound outboard powerheads on the stern of a big
Whaler, flip it, and then tell me it righted itself. Doubtful. If it is
awash and in heavy seas, it might flip.

Yes, they could flip. My brother took a huge rogue wave over the bow of
his 18' Outrage while 18 miles from shore. The boat filled right up to
the top of the gunnel with water. He said that the boat became very tippy
for a moment, but the engine remained running and he just powered forward,
the bow popped up, and most of the water rushed out the large notched
transom in the back. That's one of the reasons why I'm a fan of the older
Whalers with notched transoms. You don't have very long before a swamped
boat flips, so you need to get that water out in a hurry. Throttling up
is the quickest way to do it.




The problem is when the whaler gets in a situation where it quickly flips.
Friend earlier this year was trying to unstick a crab pot when a large wave
flipped the boat. 6 hours later, the three guys were luckily seen and
rescued just before dark. They were sitting on the bottom of the boat. The
handheld VHF was at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. We probably see more
whalers flipped than any other boat off the West coast. The Whaler owners
believe all the advertising quoting the safety of the boat. And they go out
when it is inappropriate.