BoatBanter.com - OT--Israelis turn up the heat on Iran

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"DSK" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way... Did the N.Koreans unapologetically build atoms
bombs while Clinton was President?

NOYB wrote:
Yes.

No. Denying unpleasant facts won't change them.

... The difference was that they hid it the entire time, and the Clinton
administration took them on their word.

And verified thier actions (or lack of same) by careful intel work
including satellite scanning.

Hehehe. I suppose that same "careful intel work" led Clinton's military
chief of staff to testify in 1998 that N. Korea did not have an active
ballistic missile program...one week before they launched a Taepodong-1
missile over Japan and into the Pacific.

No. Did they do so while George Bush Jr was President? Yes.

They just continued doing what they were doing.

Really? Considering that they did not enrich any fuel (very difficult to
hide) while Clinton was President, then no, they absolutely did *not*
continue what they were doing.

They hid a ballistic missile system...so why not a nuclear rod enrichment
program?

They might have been working their way up to it, but there's a big big
difference between "working on the possibility of someday building a
nuclear weapon" which *might* have been what they were doing during
Clinton's tenure, and "building a nuclear weapon" which is what they are
doing now, or have already done.

Most sources show that the N. Koreans already had a nuke or two in the early
to mid 90's.

Big success for Bush Jr. Almost as big as Harken Energy.

... His intelligence agents met with al Zarqawi and Mohammed Atta.
That's all what you'd call "proof".

Actually, that meeting is now believed to have never taken place.

Believed by whom? You? Democrats?

By me, yes... on the word of the CIA and the State Dept.

Now, that was rather long, NOBBY, and I don't expect you to actually
grasp all of it. The key point is that the US ambassador told Saddam
personally that the US didn't have a problem with his invasion plans.

You're full of **** on this issue.

Actually, I'm not.

... The idea that the US would give tacit approval to the invasion of
Kuwait...and then send 600,000 troops to the region to toss them out less
than a year later flies against any and all logic.

Yes, it does, doesn't it? But then, logic really isn't the strong point of
either of the Presidents Bush.

... You'd have to be out on the farthest fringe of conspiracy nuts to
even consider such a scenario.

Why? Unfortunately, it really did happen. Actually, it wasn't a case of
giving tacit approval as of having no notion of what was about to
happen... a failure of intelligence (in both meanings of the word).

Yes. We were disgraced and withdrew...

Disgraced? Why?

Because our forces weren't given the chance to finish what they started.
Their CIC pulled them out too soon.

Defeated by superior forces when attempting to bring order for relief
efforts... a humanitarian mission gone extremely awry due to the sheer
murderous insanity on th epart of those we were trying to help... you
consider that a disgrace?

The premature withdrawal was a disgrace.

And you say you "support our troops?" Nice.

Our "troops" didn't make the decision to pull out.

... and consequently appeared impotent and weak to the Muslim world.

We've appeared impotent & weak, militarily, to most of the world since
Viet Nam. Appearances aren't everything, fortunately.

Nawww. I think the rest of the World stood up and took notice how quickly
and easily we destroyed the World's 4th largest army in 1991.

If the fundamentalist Muslim really thinks we're so weak, why don't they
attack us with military force against military force?

They meant "weak" in the sense that we don't have the guts to finish what we
start once the casualties start to mount.

Answer: they're psychopaths, not idiots. They know we are still far too
strong for them, that way.

In other words, you're wrong again.

... Did you see it happen another way?

Umm, yes. A rather bone headed decision to use insufficient force, with
really tragic results. One response would have been to cluster bomb
Mogadishu to maim everybody who participated in dragging our troops bodies
through the streets... and all their families... but it wouldn't have
brought those men back.

It would have sent a message that we wouldn't run and hide at the first
sight of American casualties.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:34:11 -0400, HarryKrause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On 2 Aug 2005 11:49:11 -0700, wrote:

NOYB wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

As much as I admit to support the Bush administration, I have a problem
with Israel. My issue is that they lead the world in slave sex trade and
no one seems to really care.
Slave sex trade???

I've never heard anything about the prowess of Israel in the slave sex
trade.
Really? Are you BLIND??? Here's a place to start, then do a google
search. Try Israel sex slave.

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/israel.htm

Tell us about your Moto Guzzi 'Desmo', please.

You have a perseveration problem, Herring? How many times are you going
to add this boring little comment to Basskisser's posts? And why are you
playing the same idiotic game here as Fritz and Hertvik? Aren't you cut
from a slightly better bolt of cloth?

Besides, Ducs rule.

Hey, I would just like to get an answer! Perhaps he will answer you, if you ask
him nicely. He's the one that said the owned a Moto Guzzi 'Desmo'!

"Ducs" may rule, until they break. Then the Goose rules. They're fixable. By
amateurs. Like me.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:40:05 -0400, HarryKrause wrote:

John H. wrote:

You tend to ignore those questions.

Now, tell us about your Moto Guzzi 'Desmo'. And, see if you can answer the
question prompted by your 'McVey' comment. Or, simply take the chicken way out!

Puck, puck.

Needle stuck in a grove, Herring?

Yup. Wanting an answer. Any idea why none is forthcoming? I know I could learn a
lot from an engineer from Penn State University of Georgia Tech...or whatever,
that owned a Moto Guzzi 'Desmo'.

You've been in his position many times, how would you advise him?

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

JohnH,
Harry is embarrassed for Basskisser, Basskisser and Harry both keep getting
caught at their lies.

Harry has empathy for anyone who is made to look as foolish as Basskisser.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:34:11 -0400, HarryKrause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On 2 Aug 2005 11:49:11 -0700, wrote:

NOYB wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

As much as I admit to support the Bush administration, I have a
problem
with Israel. My issue is that they lead the world in slave sex trade
and
no one seems to really care.
Slave sex trade???

I've never heard anything about the prowess of Israel in the slave sex
trade.
Really? Are you BLIND??? Here's a place to start, then do a google
search. Try Israel sex slave.

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/israel.htm

Tell us about your Moto Guzzi 'Desmo', please.

You have a perseveration problem, Herring? How many times are you going
to add this boring little comment to Basskisser's posts? And why are you
playing the same idiotic game here as Fritz and Hertvik? Aren't you cut
from a slightly better bolt of cloth?

Besides, Ducs rule.

Hey, I would just like to get an answer! Perhaps he will answer you, if
you ask
him nicely. He's the one that said the owned a Moto Guzzi 'Desmo'!

"Ducs" may rule, until they break. Then the Goose rules. They're fixable.
By
amateurs. Like me.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

Harry would recommend you pretend to set up a "bozo bin" so you don't have
to respond.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:40:05 -0400, HarryKrause
wrote:

John H. wrote:

You tend to ignore those questions.

Now, tell us about your Moto Guzzi 'Desmo'. And, see if you can answer
the
question prompted by your 'McVey' comment. Or, simply take the chicken
way out!

Puck, puck.

Needle stuck in a grove, Herring?

Yup. Wanting an answer. Any idea why none is forthcoming? I know I could
learn a
lot from an engineer from Penn State University of Georgia Tech...or
whatever,
that owned a Moto Guzzi 'Desmo'.

You've been in his position many times, how would you advise him?

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

Scooby Doo wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote in
:

Who - the Israelis? I thought they only used missiles on people in
wheel chairs?

What, terrorists can't ride around in wheel chairs? That should help us narrow
our search for these crazies. Only wheel chair incident I recall is when the Arabs
pushed a Jewish man in a wheel chair off a cruise boat. Now that's a brave thing
to do.

And bulldozers on pacifists with bullhorns.

I keep hearing this story about the poor pacifist who put herself in front of a bulldozer.
Not a very smart thing to do. This ranks with people who step in front of speeding trains.

As for statistics about deaths on both sides, the Israelis do kill Palestinians who are
firing on them or throwing molotov cocktails, but that does not compare with people
who sit around and plan for weeks in advance how to kill innocent civilians. Some
of Israel's security measures, like building walls, may seem extreme to some people,
but try and imagine yourself living there under a constant threat of terrorist attack.
As for Gaza, opening up their borders would allow the terrorists there to import all
kinds of weapons, which they now try and do by digging tunnels at the borders.
Until the Palestinians can show they have control of their own population, there is
no trusting them on security issues.

Sherwin D.

NOYB wrote:
Hehehe. I suppose that same "careful intel work" led Clinton's military
chief of staff to testify in 1998 that N. Korea did not have an active
ballistic missile program...one week before they launched a Taepodong-1
missile over Japan and into the Pacific.

Well, everybody has their off days. Like Rummy firing all the generals
who said we need more force to occupy Iraq, and that it would take years
to pacify. Or Cheney's announcement that the Iraq insurgency is on it's
last legs.

Radiation is hard to hide. Spotting radioactive tailings is one of the
few things satellite spy-eyes are very good at.

Most sources show that the N. Koreans already had a nuke or two in the early
to mid 90's.

Really? Like what soources? And if that's true, then it's Reagan and
Bush Sr's fault, not Clintons.

Yes. We were disgraced and withdrew...

Disgraced? Why?

Because our forces weren't given the chance to finish what they started.
Their CIC pulled them out too soon.

WHAT?!? The only outcome of not pulling out would have been a massacre.

The premature withdrawal was a disgrace.

And you say you "support our troops?" Nice.

Our "troops" didn't make the decision to pull out.

No, the theatre command did. Do you have the slightest clue about C-3
and TO? Don't feel bad, most civilians don't. But you're criticising
actions you don't have the foggiest idea about.

To leave those troops in Mogadishu longer would have meant more deaths,
possibly a total loss... a military castrophe unparalleled even by Pearl
Harbor... great leadership, eh NOBBY?

... and consequently appeared impotent and weak to the Muslim world.

We've appeared impotent & weak, militarily, to most of the world since
Viet Nam. Appearances aren't everything, fortunately.

Nawww. I think the rest of the World stood up and took notice how quickly
and easily we destroyed the World's 4th largest army in 1991.

And left a brutal, genocidal, terrorist-harboring dictator in place.

If the fundamentalist Muslim really thinks we're so weak, why don't they
attack us with military force against military force?

They meant "weak" in the sense that we don't have the guts to finish what we
start once the casualties start to mount.

Casualties are not the goal of a military operation, unless you're a
worshipper of Stonewall Jackson.

DSK

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:48:24 -0400, NOYB wrote:

So does Israel "lead the World in sex slave trade" as Dan posited?

Perhaps on a per capita basis ;-) Seriously, I don't know the answer to
that question. There are quite a few articles on Israel's involvement
with sexual slavery, but the big numbers, at least in total dollars, are
in the US and Europe. There is a pie-chart in this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4532617.stm