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*JimH* July 29th 05 02:40 PM


wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On 28 Jul 2005 16:55:10 -0700, "
wrote:



John H. wrote:
On 28 Jul 2005 10:37:03 -0700, wrote:

According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but
he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill. But it
gets
worse. The provision was "mysteriously inserted" into the text of
the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure." DeLay has launched an assault on the democratic process.
Write your representatives and demand this provision be removed from
the energy bill.

THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM: The $1.5 billion is designated for "oil and
natural gas drilling research." Ordinarily, any company could apply
for
these funds directly from the government. But DeLay does things a
little differently. In this case, the bulk of the money must be
handed
over to "a corporation that is constructed as a consortium." As it
so
happens, "the leading contender for this contract appears to be the
Research Partnership to Secure Energy for America (RPSEA)
consortium,
housed in the Texas Energy Center in Sugar Land, Texas," Tom DeLay's
home district. RPSEA "has been advocating such a research program
and
is in a better position than any other group." (DeLay testified in
support of the program before a House subcommittee last year.) If
RPSEA
wins the contract they can keep "up to 10% of the funds - in this
case,
over $100 million - in administrative expenses."

DISPENSING WITH DEMOCRACY: The $1.5 billion giveaway was added to
the
bill after "Democratic negotiators went home Tuesday at 4 a.m.
believing a deal had been finalized and the provision wasn't in the
bill." The program was not included in the draft version of the bill
and a DeLay spokesman said "he could not explain how the item was
added
to the final version of legislation prepared by the Senate and House
negotiators." A spokesman for Rep. Joe Barton, chairman of the House
Energy and Commerce Committee, noted that Sen. Jeff Bingaman,
(D-NM),
and Rep. John Dingell, (D-MI) were also informed. Bingaman's
spokesman,
Bill Wicker, said "We don't see this as a sweetheart deal for
anyone."

DELAY - ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE: The broader question is: why do
taxpayers need to provide another huge subsidy oil and gas
companies?
As Waxman notes "The oil and gas industry is reporting record income
and profits. According to one analyst, the net income of the top oil
companies will total $230 billion in 2005." Halliburton, which is a
member of the consortium, would be eligible to "receive awards from
the
over $1 billion fund administered by the consortium."

DELAY - ATTACKING THE MESSENGER: Instead taking responsibility for
his
action, DeLay attacked the messenger. DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden
said, ''Henry Waxman knows zero about Texas, zero about energy
security, and apparently even less about how a bill becomes law."
The
RPSEA consortium, for their part, doesn't want to know. Melanie
Kenderdine, who represents Gas Technology Institute, a company in
the
consortium, said, "how the sausage is made is not important to me."

Apparently you didn't see all the Democrats hailing the energy bill
in
the House
today. Seventy-five Democrats voted for it.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


Shhhhhh! Quiet, John H. Do you have any idea how many billions of
dollars and millions of hours have been invested to this point to
convince most Americans that our problems are the result of the "wrong"
political party, ("wrong" as in whichever party any particular
individual doesn't belong to), rather than wholesale
whoredom and corruption throughout the system itself? As long as the
D's can be forced to focus attention on the R's, and the R's on the
D's, the PACS and CORPS who control them both control us all. :-(

You will have noted, of course, that I made no comments with regard to
my
opinion of the 'energy' bill!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


John, you seem to be riding the fence lately without taking a real
position
so you can later say..."I made no comments with regard to........."

Just an observation. I do not want to start WWIII with you. ;-)

More power to you if that is what you want to do. Just an opinion.


John, you've made an enemy instantly because you're not goose-stepping
lemming-like to the party!!!! Good for you for having a brain and using
it.


Made an enemy? In your mind only Kevin.



[email protected] July 29th 05 02:53 PM


wrote:
Mr Wizzard wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill.


So help me understand here So what exactally is "wrong" with
things that favor Haliburton, and having oil as our best interest?
To this day, I honestly don't understand this. Be it awarding
Haliburton with contracts in Iraq, or this, (or any other thing
that favors Haliburton, and/or the oil industry). Isn't this actually
a "good" thing ? I mean, as I understand it, Haliburton is a very
experienced at oil exploration/consulting etc., and they are State
side, and hire mostly Americans, right ? I mean, they are the
best equipped to do the job, so what's the problem? Further,
what is wrong with haveing oil as one of this country's best interests?
Who does it benefit to "not" have oil as our best interest? (and how)?
What, you want $9/gallon gas like in Europe and such? Having oil
in our best interest (be it wartime, *or* peacetime) is a very noble
thing. And it should go to the most experienced, best equipped
company, and even better if the company is an American company
comprised or American workers operating on American lands.
(not the French - they got caught in an illegal $60B oil deal
with one Mr Saddam Hussien).


I take it that you didn't get this part: The provision was
"mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure."

It was inserted AFTER THE CONFERENCE WAS CLOSED, so no one, republican
or democrat, was able to consider or reject it.



That's been the norm lately. Publish a bill about the size of the
Manhattan Yellow Pages and deliver it to lawmakers about 4:30 on a
Saturday afternoon.
Call for a vote at 8:30 the following Monday morning. "Don't worry,
we'll condense those 600,000 words down into a little sound byte so you
will know what you're voting on." Right. I'm sure the D's were just as
blatantly abusive when they had the majority, but that doesn't excuse
this practice from either side.

This new wrinkle of tinkering with the bill after the conference
committee has met and gone back to the chambers with a "do pass"
recommendation is certainly immoral, if not downright illegal. It's on
the same level as changing the terms of a contract after some of the
parties in the contract have already signed it

My question remains unanswered month after month, year after year,
scandalous fraud after scandalous fraud: If some particular school of
political thought is so obviously right for America and so incredibly
fair in practice- why do the operatives of any particular school of
political thought have to rely on lying, cheating, and trickery to
produce results or attempt to remain in power?


John H. July 29th 05 03:12 PM

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:09:38 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On 28 Jul 2005 16:55:10 -0700, "
wrote:



John H. wrote:
On 28 Jul 2005 10:37:03 -0700, wrote:

According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill. But it gets
worse. The provision was "mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure." DeLay has launched an assault on the democratic process.
Write your representatives and demand this provision be removed from
the energy bill.

THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM: The $1.5 billion is designated for "oil and
natural gas drilling research." Ordinarily, any company could apply for
these funds directly from the government. But DeLay does things a
little differently. In this case, the bulk of the money must be handed
over to "a corporation that is constructed as a consortium." As it so
happens, "the leading contender for this contract appears to be the
Research Partnership to Secure Energy for America (RPSEA) consortium,
housed in the Texas Energy Center in Sugar Land, Texas," Tom DeLay's
home district. RPSEA "has been advocating such a research program and
is in a better position than any other group." (DeLay testified in
support of the program before a House subcommittee last year.) If RPSEA
wins the contract they can keep "up to 10% of the funds - in this case,
over $100 million - in administrative expenses."

DISPENSING WITH DEMOCRACY: The $1.5 billion giveaway was added to the
bill after "Democratic negotiators went home Tuesday at 4 a.m.
believing a deal had been finalized and the provision wasn't in the
bill." The program was not included in the draft version of the bill
and a DeLay spokesman said "he could not explain how the item was added
to the final version of legislation prepared by the Senate and House
negotiators." A spokesman for Rep. Joe Barton, chairman of the House
Energy and Commerce Committee, noted that Sen. Jeff Bingaman, (D-NM),
and Rep. John Dingell, (D-MI) were also informed. Bingaman's spokesman,
Bill Wicker, said "We don't see this as a sweetheart deal for anyone."

DELAY - ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE: The broader question is: why do
taxpayers need to provide another huge subsidy oil and gas companies?
As Waxman notes "The oil and gas industry is reporting record income
and profits. According to one analyst, the net income of the top oil
companies will total $230 billion in 2005." Halliburton, which is a
member of the consortium, would be eligible to "receive awards from the
over $1 billion fund administered by the consortium."

DELAY - ATTACKING THE MESSENGER: Instead taking responsibility for his
action, DeLay attacked the messenger. DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden
said, ''Henry Waxman knows zero about Texas, zero about energy
security, and apparently even less about how a bill becomes law." The
RPSEA consortium, for their part, doesn't want to know. Melanie
Kenderdine, who represents Gas Technology Institute, a company in the
consortium, said, "how the sausage is made is not important to me."

Apparently you didn't see all the Democrats hailing the energy bill in
the House
today. Seventy-five Democrats voted for it.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


Shhhhhh! Quiet, John H. Do you have any idea how many billions of
dollars and millions of hours have been invested to this point to
convince most Americans that our problems are the result of the "wrong"
political party, ("wrong" as in whichever party any particular
individual doesn't belong to), rather than wholesale
whoredom and corruption throughout the system itself? As long as the
D's can be forced to focus attention on the R's, and the R's on the
D's, the PACS and CORPS who control them both control us all. :-(


You will have noted, of course, that I made no comments with regard to my
opinion of the 'energy' bill!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


John, you seem to be riding the fence lately without taking a real position
so you can later say..."I made no comments with regard to........."

Just an observation. I do not want to start WWIII with you. ;-)

More power to you if that is what you want to do. Just an opinion.

There's nothing 'lately' about it. You'll find that I very often just disagree
with the presentation of an argument, not the policy being argued. Some folks
just utter stupidities and inaccuracies to support their 'arguments'.

Last night I watched Kerry's remarks regarding the energy bill. Many of his
comments, if not most, made very good sense.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

John H. July 29th 05 03:13 PM

On 29 Jul 2005 06:38:40 -0700, wrote:


*JimH* wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On 28 Jul 2005 16:55:10 -0700, "
wrote:



John H. wrote:
On 28 Jul 2005 10:37:03 -0700,
wrote:

According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill. But it gets
worse. The provision was "mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure." DeLay has launched an assault on the democratic process.
Write your representatives and demand this provision be removed from
the energy bill.

THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM: The $1.5 billion is designated for "oil and
natural gas drilling research." Ordinarily, any company could apply for
these funds directly from the government. But DeLay does things a
little differently. In this case, the bulk of the money must be handed
over to "a corporation that is constructed as a consortium." As it so
happens, "the leading contender for this contract appears to be the
Research Partnership to Secure Energy for America (RPSEA) consortium,
housed in the Texas Energy Center in Sugar Land, Texas," Tom DeLay's
home district. RPSEA "has been advocating such a research program and
is in a better position than any other group." (DeLay testified in
support of the program before a House subcommittee last year.) If RPSEA
wins the contract they can keep "up to 10% of the funds - in this case,
over $100 million - in administrative expenses."

DISPENSING WITH DEMOCRACY: The $1.5 billion giveaway was added to the
bill after "Democratic negotiators went home Tuesday at 4 a.m.
believing a deal had been finalized and the provision wasn't in the
bill." The program was not included in the draft version of the bill
and a DeLay spokesman said "he could not explain how the item was added
to the final version of legislation prepared by the Senate and House
negotiators." A spokesman for Rep. Joe Barton, chairman of the House
Energy and Commerce Committee, noted that Sen. Jeff Bingaman, (D-NM),
and Rep. John Dingell, (D-MI) were also informed. Bingaman's spokesman,
Bill Wicker, said "We don't see this as a sweetheart deal for anyone."

DELAY - ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE: The broader question is: why do
taxpayers need to provide another huge subsidy oil and gas companies?
As Waxman notes "The oil and gas industry is reporting record income
and profits. According to one analyst, the net income of the top oil
companies will total $230 billion in 2005." Halliburton, which is a
member of the consortium, would be eligible to "receive awards from the
over $1 billion fund administered by the consortium."

DELAY - ATTACKING THE MESSENGER: Instead taking responsibility for his
action, DeLay attacked the messenger. DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden
said, ''Henry Waxman knows zero about Texas, zero about energy
security, and apparently even less about how a bill becomes law." The
RPSEA consortium, for their part, doesn't want to know. Melanie
Kenderdine, who represents Gas Technology Institute, a company in the
consortium, said, "how the sausage is made is not important to me."

Apparently you didn't see all the Democrats hailing the energy bill in
the House
today. Seventy-five Democrats voted for it.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


Shhhhhh! Quiet, John H. Do you have any idea how many billions of
dollars and millions of hours have been invested to this point to
convince most Americans that our problems are the result of the "wrong"
political party, ("wrong" as in whichever party any particular
individual doesn't belong to), rather than wholesale
whoredom and corruption throughout the system itself? As long as the
D's can be forced to focus attention on the R's, and the R's on the
D's, the PACS and CORPS who control them both control us all. :-(

You will have noted, of course, that I made no comments with regard to my
opinion of the 'energy' bill!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


John, you seem to be riding the fence lately without taking a real position
so you can later say..."I made no comments with regard to........."

Just an observation. I do not want to start WWIII with you. ;-)

More power to you if that is what you want to do. Just an opinion.


John, you've made an enemy instantly because you're not goose-stepping
lemming-like to the party!!!! Good for you for having a brain and using
it.


Well, let's hope I didn't earn you as a friend!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

John H. July 29th 05 03:16 PM

On 29 Jul 2005 06:37:17 -0700, wrote:


John H. wrote:

Apparently you didn't see all the Democrats hailing the energy bill in the House
today. Seventy-five Democrats voted for it.

--

Apparently you didn't see that it was slipped in AFTER THE CONFERENCE
WAS CLOSED, meaning no one, democrat or republican was able to consider
or reject it.


Was it slipped in AFTER the vote on the House floor? No? Well then all those
Democrats had a chance to vote "NO".

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

*JimH* July 29th 05 03:21 PM


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:09:38 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On 28 Jul 2005 16:55:10 -0700, "
wrote:



John H. wrote:
On 28 Jul 2005 10:37:03 -0700, wrote:

According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but
he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill. But it gets
worse. The provision was "mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure." DeLay has launched an assault on the democratic process.
Write your representatives and demand this provision be removed from
the energy bill.

THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM: The $1.5 billion is designated for "oil and
natural gas drilling research." Ordinarily, any company could apply
for
these funds directly from the government. But DeLay does things a
little differently. In this case, the bulk of the money must be
handed
over to "a corporation that is constructed as a consortium." As it so
happens, "the leading contender for this contract appears to be the
Research Partnership to Secure Energy for America (RPSEA) consortium,
housed in the Texas Energy Center in Sugar Land, Texas," Tom DeLay's
home district. RPSEA "has been advocating such a research program and
is in a better position than any other group." (DeLay testified in
support of the program before a House subcommittee last year.) If
RPSEA
wins the contract they can keep "up to 10% of the funds - in this
case,
over $100 million - in administrative expenses."

DISPENSING WITH DEMOCRACY: The $1.5 billion giveaway was added to the
bill after "Democratic negotiators went home Tuesday at 4 a.m.
believing a deal had been finalized and the provision wasn't in the
bill." The program was not included in the draft version of the bill
and a DeLay spokesman said "he could not explain how the item was
added
to the final version of legislation prepared by the Senate and House
negotiators." A spokesman for Rep. Joe Barton, chairman of the House
Energy and Commerce Committee, noted that Sen. Jeff Bingaman, (D-NM),
and Rep. John Dingell, (D-MI) were also informed. Bingaman's
spokesman,
Bill Wicker, said "We don't see this as a sweetheart deal for
anyone."

DELAY - ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE: The broader question is: why do
taxpayers need to provide another huge subsidy oil and gas companies?
As Waxman notes "The oil and gas industry is reporting record income
and profits. According to one analyst, the net income of the top oil
companies will total $230 billion in 2005." Halliburton, which is a
member of the consortium, would be eligible to "receive awards from
the
over $1 billion fund administered by the consortium."

DELAY - ATTACKING THE MESSENGER: Instead taking responsibility for
his
action, DeLay attacked the messenger. DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden
said, ''Henry Waxman knows zero about Texas, zero about energy
security, and apparently even less about how a bill becomes law." The
RPSEA consortium, for their part, doesn't want to know. Melanie
Kenderdine, who represents Gas Technology Institute, a company in the
consortium, said, "how the sausage is made is not important to me."

Apparently you didn't see all the Democrats hailing the energy bill in
the House
today. Seventy-five Democrats voted for it.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


Shhhhhh! Quiet, John H. Do you have any idea how many billions of
dollars and millions of hours have been invested to this point to
convince most Americans that our problems are the result of the "wrong"
political party, ("wrong" as in whichever party any particular
individual doesn't belong to), rather than wholesale
whoredom and corruption throughout the system itself? As long as the
D's can be forced to focus attention on the R's, and the R's on the
D's, the PACS and CORPS who control them both control us all. :-(

You will have noted, of course, that I made no comments with regard to
my
opinion of the 'energy' bill!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


John, you seem to be riding the fence lately without taking a real
position
so you can later say..."I made no comments with regard to........."

Just an observation. I do not want to start WWIII with you. ;-)

More power to you if that is what you want to do. Just an opinion.

There's nothing 'lately' about it. You'll find that I very often just
disagree
with the presentation of an argument, not the policy being argued. Some
folks
just utter stupidities and inaccuracies to support their 'arguments'.

Last night I watched Kerry's remarks regarding the energy bill. Many of
his
comments, if not most, made very good sense.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


I do not always agree with the Pres or what the Republicans in Congress do.
That was not my original point though.

I was saying that you just don't take a position lately either way. That's
all.



John H. July 29th 05 03:44 PM

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:21:46 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:09:38 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On 28 Jul 2005 16:55:10 -0700, "
wrote:



John H. wrote:
On 28 Jul 2005 10:37:03 -0700, wrote:

According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but
he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill. But it gets
worse. The provision was "mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure." DeLay has launched an assault on the democratic process.
Write your representatives and demand this provision be removed from
the energy bill.

THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM: The $1.5 billion is designated for "oil and
natural gas drilling research." Ordinarily, any company could apply
for
these funds directly from the government. But DeLay does things a
little differently. In this case, the bulk of the money must be
handed
over to "a corporation that is constructed as a consortium." As it so
happens, "the leading contender for this contract appears to be the
Research Partnership to Secure Energy for America (RPSEA) consortium,
housed in the Texas Energy Center in Sugar Land, Texas," Tom DeLay's
home district. RPSEA "has been advocating such a research program and
is in a better position than any other group." (DeLay testified in
support of the program before a House subcommittee last year.) If
RPSEA
wins the contract they can keep "up to 10% of the funds - in this
case,
over $100 million - in administrative expenses."

DISPENSING WITH DEMOCRACY: The $1.5 billion giveaway was added to the
bill after "Democratic negotiators went home Tuesday at 4 a.m.
believing a deal had been finalized and the provision wasn't in the
bill." The program was not included in the draft version of the bill
and a DeLay spokesman said "he could not explain how the item was
added
to the final version of legislation prepared by the Senate and House
negotiators." A spokesman for Rep. Joe Barton, chairman of the House
Energy and Commerce Committee, noted that Sen. Jeff Bingaman, (D-NM),
and Rep. John Dingell, (D-MI) were also informed. Bingaman's
spokesman,
Bill Wicker, said "We don't see this as a sweetheart deal for
anyone."

DELAY - ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE: The broader question is: why do
taxpayers need to provide another huge subsidy oil and gas companies?
As Waxman notes "The oil and gas industry is reporting record income
and profits. According to one analyst, the net income of the top oil
companies will total $230 billion in 2005." Halliburton, which is a
member of the consortium, would be eligible to "receive awards from
the
over $1 billion fund administered by the consortium."

DELAY - ATTACKING THE MESSENGER: Instead taking responsibility for
his
action, DeLay attacked the messenger. DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden
said, ''Henry Waxman knows zero about Texas, zero about energy
security, and apparently even less about how a bill becomes law." The
RPSEA consortium, for their part, doesn't want to know. Melanie
Kenderdine, who represents Gas Technology Institute, a company in the
consortium, said, "how the sausage is made is not important to me."

Apparently you didn't see all the Democrats hailing the energy bill in
the House
today. Seventy-five Democrats voted for it.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


Shhhhhh! Quiet, John H. Do you have any idea how many billions of
dollars and millions of hours have been invested to this point to
convince most Americans that our problems are the result of the "wrong"
political party, ("wrong" as in whichever party any particular
individual doesn't belong to), rather than wholesale
whoredom and corruption throughout the system itself? As long as the
D's can be forced to focus attention on the R's, and the R's on the
D's, the PACS and CORPS who control them both control us all. :-(

You will have noted, of course, that I made no comments with regard to
my
opinion of the 'energy' bill!

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

John, you seem to be riding the fence lately without taking a real
position
so you can later say..."I made no comments with regard to........."

Just an observation. I do not want to start WWIII with you. ;-)

More power to you if that is what you want to do. Just an opinion.

There's nothing 'lately' about it. You'll find that I very often just
disagree
with the presentation of an argument, not the policy being argued. Some
folks
just utter stupidities and inaccuracies to support their 'arguments'.

Last night I watched Kerry's remarks regarding the energy bill. Many of
his
comments, if not most, made very good sense.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD


I do not always agree with the Pres or what the Republicans in Congress do.
That was not my original point though.

I was saying that you just don't take a position lately either way. That's
all.


I went away for four days. I returned to find 998 new posts in rec.boats. Of
those, maybe 50 were on topic. Of the other 948, about 90% were simply
name-calling. Not a lot there to take a position on.

From what I've heard, the energy bill is mostly pork and white-wash.

I've driven through France, and I've seen the nuclear reactors every 25
(seemingly) miles. I've not heard of a lot of reactor incidents in France, yet
we seem afraid of nuclear energy. I'm astounded that we are still talking the
advantages of 'clean coal' technology. Harry Byrd must have had a big hand in
the drafting of the bill.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

Mr Wizzard July 29th 05 04:38 PM


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:27:12 -0700, Mr Wizzard wrote:


So help me understand here So what exactally is "wrong" with things

that
favor Haliburton, and having oil as our best interest? To this day, I
honestly don't understand this. Be it awarding Haliburton with

contracts
in Iraq, or this, (or any other thing that favors Haliburton, and/or the
oil industry). Isn't this actually a "good" thing ? I mean, as I
understand it, Haliburton is a very experienced at oil
exploration/consulting etc., and they are State side, and hire mostly
Americans, right ? I mean, they are the best equipped to do the job, so
what's the problem? Further, what is wrong with haveing oil as one of
this country's best interests? Who does it benefit to "not" have oil as
our best interest? (and how)? What, you want $9/gallon gas like in

Europe
and such? Having oil in our best interest (be it wartime, *or*

peacetime)
is a very noble thing. And it should go to the most experienced, best
equipped company, and even better if the company is an American company
comprised or American workers operating on American lands. (not the

French
- they got caught in an illegal $60B oil deal with one Mr Saddam

Hussien).

I don't have any problem with Halliburton, per se, but I do have a problem
with awarding no-bid contracts, especially when the awarder and the
awardee have such close ties.


So why is this an issue? Are there really other
State side companies that are equally as good
as Haliburton? In Iraq, and as I inderstand it,
there *were* no other other state side companies
capable of doing the work that needed to be done
in Iraq. And we *damn* sure wern't gonna hire
some European, or French company, right?
(I mean, was that even a rational idea anyways ?)

Oh, and the French weren't the only ones
caught with their finger in the pie.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1012-33.htm


Yeah, that whole UN scandle with the Kofi/CoJo Annun
thing, yeah, sheese/


Oh, and those American workers, perhaps they aren't so American:

http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News...0/23news06.htm

This article was reading pretty good up to the last paragrah
which exposes it for what the article really is - bunk. There
is nothing wrong with "greed" - it *is* the sole element of
capitalism, and the sooner all Americans realie this, the
sooner we will all get this anti-American/anti-Capitalism
under control. We are a "law-based", Capitalism based
society which is a good thing. Be it sleezy salesman, or
Wall Marts, etc., companies, and corporate America
forms companies, and corporations to "make money".
We are not a "feel good" society - profits first (which
benifits *everyone* in the form of a robust economy,
stocks, investment funds, tax revenue etc), and the
feel-good/warm-n-fuzzy thing second, guided by "law"
which prevents "greed" from hurting anyone. This is
*not* socialism. Capitalism is not for the faint of heart.



Mr Wizzard July 29th 05 04:47 PM


wrote in message
oups.com...

Mr Wizzard wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but

he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill.


So help me understand here So what exactally is "wrong" with
things that favor Haliburton, and having oil as our best interest?
To this day, I honestly don't understand this. Be it awarding
Haliburton with contracts in Iraq, or this, (or any other thing
that favors Haliburton, and/or the oil industry). Isn't this actually
a "good" thing ? I mean, as I understand it, Haliburton is a very
experienced at oil exploration/consulting etc., and they are State
side, and hire mostly Americans, right ? I mean, they are the
best equipped to do the job, so what's the problem? Further,
what is wrong with haveing oil as one of this country's best interests?
Who does it benefit to "not" have oil as our best interest? (and how)?
What, you want $9/gallon gas like in Europe and such? Having oil
in our best interest (be it wartime, *or* peacetime) is a very noble
thing. And it should go to the most experienced, best equipped
company, and even better if the company is an American company
comprised or American workers operating on American lands.
(not the French - they got caught in an illegal $60B oil deal
with one Mr Saddam Hussien).


I take it that you didn't get this part: The provision was
"mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure."

It was inserted AFTER THE CONFERENCE WAS CLOSED, so no one, republican
or democrat, was able to consider or reject it.


Well, if this "mysterious insertion" broke laws,
then yeah, there should be outrage. However,
as presented, its clearly not that it was inserted
that is being focused on, its that fact that it was
the `OMFG, it was *Halliburton*!` mentality.
I'll bet if if was some Clintonesque social program
that was mysterious inserted, it wouldn't be an
issue for you. Ok, ok, maybe that was a cheap
shot, but again, look at how this article is/was
being presented: "Republican Pigs are at it again",
and Halliburton. If the origanl author was truely
even keeled, and concerned about the PROCESS,
then it would have read more "neutral" - something
like: "Mysterious provision shows up in energy bill"









Mr Wizzard July 29th 05 04:59 PM


wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Mr Wizzard wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
According to JimH's analogy, this is on topic, because boats use
energy.

More proof that Republicans are pigs at the trough.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay may have faded from the front pages, but

he's
still up to his dirty tricks. Yesterday, Rep. Henry Waxman revealed
that DeLay slipped "a $1.5 billion giveaway to the oil industry,
Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas" into the energy bill.

So help me understand here So what exactally is "wrong" with
things that favor Haliburton, and having oil as our best interest?
To this day, I honestly don't understand this. Be it awarding
Haliburton with contracts in Iraq, or this, (or any other thing
that favors Haliburton, and/or the oil industry). Isn't this actually
a "good" thing ? I mean, as I understand it, Haliburton is a very
experienced at oil exploration/consulting etc., and they are State
side, and hire mostly Americans, right ? I mean, they are the
best equipped to do the job, so what's the problem? Further,
what is wrong with haveing oil as one of this country's best

interests?
Who does it benefit to "not" have oil as our best interest? (and how)?
What, you want $9/gallon gas like in Europe and such? Having oil
in our best interest (be it wartime, *or* peacetime) is a very noble
thing. And it should go to the most experienced, best equipped
company, and even better if the company is an American company
comprised or American workers operating on American lands.
(not the French - they got caught in an illegal $60B oil deal
with one Mr Saddam Hussien).


I take it that you didn't get this part: The provision was
"mysteriously inserted" into the text of the
energy bill "after the conference was closed, so members of the
conference committee had no opportunity to consider or reject this
measure."

It was inserted AFTER THE CONFERENCE WAS CLOSED, so no one, republican
or democrat, was able to consider or reject it.



That's been the norm lately. Publish a bill about the size of the
Manhattan Yellow Pages and deliver it to lawmakers about 4:30 on a
Saturday afternoon.
Call for a vote at 8:30 the following Monday morning. "Don't worry,
we'll condense those 600,000 words down into a little sound byte so you
will know what you're voting on." Right. I'm sure the D's were just as
blatantly abusive when they had the majority, but that doesn't excuse
this practice from either side.

This new wrinkle of tinkering with the bill after the conference
committee has met and gone back to the chambers with a "do pass"
recommendation is certainly immoral, if not downright illegal. It's on
the same level as changing the terms of a contract after some of the
parties in the contract have already signed it

My question remains unanswered month after month, year after year,
scandalous fraud after scandalous fraud: If some particular school of
political thought is so obviously right for America and so incredibly
fair in practice- why do the operatives of any particular school of
political thought have to rely on lying, cheating, and trickery to
produce results or attempt to remain in power?


And the asnwer to your nagging question is very simple.
Its because "people are too stupid to [to vote]". Those
were the words of what, Washington, Jefferson? when
they came up with the Electroal college? Not all people
understand our system of capitalism, much let alone
realize that it IS good for our country, and what it is
based on. Granted, we are not to break any LAWS,
but that is WHY we have the liberal party - the
nay-sayer group that is susposed to challange, nag
and whine about everything, and keep everyone on
the straight-n-narrow (that was their original charter),
so if they missed it, and the inserters didn't break
any laws on the books, **** it. deal with it. Pick
up the shattered pieces of your life and move on.
In the mean time, I'm "good" with the fact that
a well experienced, high profit, American based
company is getting favortism for a chance. First
off, "profits" for an American based company
is a good thjing and benifits everyone (economy),
secondly, it helps offset the huge international
trade imbalance. Again: if no laws are broken,
Go Arerica !






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