chafing protection, securing to lines
 

What are some of the common variants of securing chafing protection to
lines?

I'm using old sections of garden hose (no leather wrapping for me - yet?),
with the line fed through them. Of course they slip down the line and away
from the chafing points if not secured, and so I'm using small lines tied to
them with running hitches, and then secured to something else (like a cleat
or to the mirror chafe guard on the other [bow] line). This works well, and
could be considered unsightly except I think honestly that no one has ever
noticed.

I know that some mariners sew whipping material through the chafe guards and
lines to keep them together. I've tried duct tape several years ago: didn't
work.

Thanks to the accumulated wisdom of the group!

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

I use a leather wrap secured with thread.


"Charles T. Low" [withoutUN] wrote in message
sgroups.com...
What are some of the common variants of securing chafing protection to
lines?

I'm using old sections of garden hose (no leather wrapping for me - yet?),
with the line fed through them. Of course they slip down the line and away
from the chafing points if not secured, and so I'm using small lines tied
to them with running hitches, and then secured to something else (like a
cleat or to the mirror chafe guard on the other [bow] line). This works
well, and could be considered unsightly except I think honestly that no
one has ever noticed.

I know that some mariners sew whipping material through the chafe guards
and lines to keep them together. I've tried duct tape several years ago:
didn't work.

Thanks to the accumulated wisdom of the group!

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

Charles T. Low wrote:

What are some of the common variants of securing chafing protection to
lines?

I'm using old sections of garden hose (no leather wrapping for me - yet?),
with the line fed through them. Of course they slip down the line and away
from the chafing points if not secured, and so I'm using small lines tied to
them with running hitches

First off, your hose section on the line are too short. If you had 3' of
hose (for example) it would be much easier to keep in place because it
would have to slide a lot further. Next, are the hoses split in a
spiral? That helps keep it from sliding, makes it more flexible, you can
put it on without uncleating the line, and when you tie a securing line
tightly around the hose it cinches the line.

Personally, I use cheap terrycloth towels & duct tape for chafe
protection. Works great, always stays in place... towels are handy for a
million uses!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Charles T. Low" [withoutUN] wrote in message
sgroups.com...
What are some of the common variants of securing chafing protection to
lines?

I'm using old sections of garden hose (no leather wrapping for me - yet?),
with the line fed through them. Of course they slip down the line and away
from the chafing points if not secured, and so I'm using small lines tied
to them with running hitches, and then secured to something else (like a
cleat or to the mirror chafe guard on the other [bow] line). This works
well, and could be considered unsightly except I think honestly that no
one has ever noticed.

I know that some mariners sew whipping material through the chafe guards
and lines to keep them together. I've tried duct tape several years ago:
didn't work.

Thanks to the accumulated wisdom of the group!

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====



I have used garden hose and reinforced plastic water tubing as chafe
guarding over my lines.. I would secure both ends with plastic wire wraps
to keep it from slipping,. I used this when my lines had contact with the
dock or dock post.

Thanks for visiting the NG again Charles. You have always offered us a
wealth of information.

Thanks to all who answered.

Red Cloud. I of course have read about leather, canvas, etc., but have never
seen it. No one I know uses it. I guess I would buy it at a chandlery? How
long does it last? I read an account of a hurricane anchoring in which the
skipper could not keep up with chafe on his anchor line, using leather, and
finally lost the line (The Complete Book of Anchorng and Mooring, Earl
Hinz). (I'm not suggesting that garden hose would have been preferable!)

Is the reason for may lack of familiarity because of inland boating? I
assure you I have never heard of a dock line parting because of chafe in
these parts, where we generally dock in relative protection from waves, but
can get substantial winds. I docked through the remnants of Hurricane
Frances last year, and chafe simply was not an issue. Of course, I keep an
eye on my lines, and replace when necessary, but that's year by year, not
minute by minute. And I don't run the lines over rough concrete edges, I use
double loops around pilings to minimize slip, etc.

Under what conditions would a chafing line get hot enough to melt? Have you
seen it happen?

Thanks again.

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Red Cloud©" wrote in message
...

Chafing gear can cause more harm than good if it repels water. In a
storm, you want those stretching nylon lines WET for lubrication to
keep them from melting. Canvas or leather are much better choices.

rusty redcloud

Thanks, Doug,

I haven't had much luck with splitting the hose, even in a spiral. They seem
to come off the line unless tied up all the way along. So the section of
garden hose is intact, with the line fed through it. Requires quite a bit of
twisting to get the line through, and then once it's on, it's there for a
while.

I would never have thought of towels, and admit that I feel a certain
skepticism about them! How long do towels last? I'm thinking about, say,
overnighting in active conditions, not wanting to risk a line parting in the
dead of night.

Thanks again.

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"DSK" wrote in message
...
First off, your hose section on the line are too short. If you had 3' of
hose (for example) it would be much easier to keep in place because it
would have to slide a lot further. Next, are the hoses split in a spiral?
That helps keep it from sliding, makes it more flexible, you can put it on
without uncleating the line, and when you tie a securing line tightly
around the hose it cinches the line.

Personally, I use cheap terrycloth towels & duct tape for chafe
protection. Works great, always stays in place... towels are handy for a
million uses!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Rusty,

Thank you. Pardon me if I push the point a bit further and ask for
clarification and amplification.

Much of the windy weather in which I dock is _dry_, so under those
circumstances the point about keeping the line wet is moot, unless I stand
there 24/7 with a garden hose. But I have never heard of lines "melting"
under those conditions.

So, I follow your theory, but i) do you have a reference and ii) do you have
any experience or knowledge of lines actually sustaining heat damage under
prolonged load/unload cycles.

I would guess that more significant advantage of leather is that it moves
with the line, whereas with hose the line moves inside the tube - still
better than rubbing against the boat (and also somewhat unsightly).

My garden hoses, OTOH, are showing no signs of wear after several seasons of
use. How long does leather last?

Thanks again.

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...

Nylon line stretches under load. In rough conditions, that line will be
stretching and unstretching constantly. As the line stretches and
contracts, the
individual fibers rub against each other, causing friction. Keeping the
line wet
lubricates and cools it so the nylon doesn't begin to melt from this
action. The
problem is not just the actual chafe point, but all along the line. If you
cover
part of the line with something that keeps it dry, you risk a melted line.

I use leather chafe protection as everyday chafe gear, and when bad storms
are
predicted, I double up on lines, and wrap bits of old towels around them
at chaf
points.

During a hurricane, there is no guarantee that anything will survive.
That's why
you add lines for storms. Leather is as good as anything. Like I said, in
really
bad conditions I augment that with towels. Once they get wet, it insures
that
the line will stay cool and wet, increasing my chances for staying put.

rusty redcloud

All of the complex stretching discussions aside, I use the garden hose as
well, but as the chafe guard...

I cut 2 - 3' lengths of garden hose, then split the last 2" on one end.
Slip that over the line then use light line to pinch the split section onto
the main line where you need it. I've been using this method for years and
never have any chafe issues, and my old sailboat went through several near
misses by hurricanes and dozens of storms with no chafing at all.

Hope that this helps

Steve

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:55:53 -0400, "Charles T. Low"
[withoutUN] wrote:

So, I follow your theory, but i) do you have a reference and ii) do you have
any experience or knowledge of lines actually sustaining heat damage under
prolonged load/unload cycles.

Rusty has it right, but it's a little extreme.

Friction generates heat energy which transforms materials into other
states - that much is absolutely true.

Ropes have to be placed under extreme loads for internal heat to rise
enough to cause fiber melting. Under normal load/unloading cycles
you'd be hard pressed to create the heat necessary to cause fiber
degradation and melting.

For example, nylon has a critical temp point (call it transition) of
350ºF. 350ºF is the point at which the individual fibers start to
transform. It's melting point is 460ºF - it's a fairly large distance
from 350º to 460º.

Add to that factor, the strength needed for the job it's intended for.
If you are tying up a 52 foot Hatteras with 1/4' inch nylon, you can
expect those sort of stresses which would cause nylon to melt. If you
use 5/8' to 3/4' the chances of it occurring is minute.

In short, line is more likely to break from stress than melt. Now can
repeated load/unload cycles degrade line to the point where it can
"melt"? Yes, but again, the stress is more likely to break the line
than melt it.

Consider this - when was the last time, if ever, that a manila line
burst into flames from internal heat? Ever hear of one?

Manila has a critical point of 180ºF, but it's "melting" point is
350ºF - melting in this case means flames. :)

It's not a likely occupance.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:55:56 GMT, Red Cloud®
wrote:

I thought I explained that the problem isn't an everyday occurence. During a
Nor' Easter or a hurricane, however, it is not unheard of for this to happen

Probably, I might have missed it - no harm, no foul.

I was more concerned with the melting thing anyway. :)

Later,

Tom

Charles T. Low wrote:
Thanks, Doug,

I haven't had much luck with splitting the hose, even in a spiral. They seem
to come off the line unless tied up all the way along.

Hmm, never had that problem. I use three or four wire ties, spaced from
the end of the hose, and they seem to do just fine.


... So the section of
garden hose is intact, with the line fed through it. Requires quite a bit of
twisting to get the line through, and then once it's on, it's there for a
while.

Maybe the problem is that you're using hose far too small for the line?


I would never have thought of towels, and admit that I feel a certain
skepticism about them! How long do towels last?

A few days, at least. I bought a bundle at the $1 store and after using
them for chafe gear for two days thru a hurricane, they're still
perfectly good for use as towels. I'd use them for cafe gear again with
no worry.


... I'm thinking about, say,
overnighting in active conditions, not wanting to risk a line parting in the
dead of night.


Sure.

Here you can see me putting a towel on a dock line that ran over the
edge of a cement bulkhead. That one got the most chafe, but didn't even
get a hole in it much less allow any chafe on the line. You can also see
some other ideas about chafe protection.

BTW Rusty is right about heat building up in lines. Think of it in terms
of energy... the wind and/or waves impart energy to the boat, wich
accelerate it in one direction... that's kinetic energy. The rope has to
stop it... sometimes with very high impulse loading (ie the boat jerks
to a stop suddenly). Where does all that energy go?

I have noticed lines with some partially melted yarns inside, very spiky
and odd feeling in the hand. I replaced them immediately.

Another problem is lines catching splinters from pilings and dock
planks, but one thing at a time here!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Here you can see me putting a towel on a dock line that ran over the
edge of a cement bulkhead. That one got the most chafe, but didn't even
get a hole in it much less allow any chafe on the line. You can also see
some other ideas about chafe protection.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...93690985IWTOWS

Sorry, forgot the link

DSK

Steve Weingart wrote:

All of the complex stretching discussions aside, I use the garden hose as
well, but as the chafe guard...

I cut 2 - 3' lengths of garden hose, then split the last 2" on one end.
Slip that over the line then use light line to pinch the split section onto
the main line where you need it. I've been using this method for years and
never have any chafe issues, and my old sailboat went through several near
misses by hurricanes and dozens of storms with no chafing at all.

Hope that this helps

Steve

If using twisted rope for mooring, as it is said one should, and if
leather is your choise for antichafe, why not do as I do with
webbing strap, which would be to tuck the end of an old leather belt
under the lay of one of the 3 strands, wrap it around the area to be
protected, and pull the other end snug under a strand? A little
seizing may be needed to stop the antichafe from migrating along the
pennant, good excuse to acquire and use a palm and a heavy needle.

Terry K

Thanks to all for the information. It looks like a matter of meteorology and
geography. I just don't see leather around here (Thousand Islands, St.
Lawrence River), and there is very little in the way of individual boaters
doing any "whipping" of the sort we learned in boating classes, in this
instance used for binding or sewing the chafing gear to a line.

We had a big wind storm a few summers ago, and I doubled up my lines and
went down frequently to check the boat, but most local boaters did nothing -
many live hours away, and not all use any chafing protection at all - and
there were no problems that I heard of. I recall something like sustained
winds in the 30 knot range, and we're all fairly protected by breakwaters,
etc. I'm still using the same lines.

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
...
I put leather on my docklines when they are new, and when the leather
wears out,
I replace the dockline. During storms, I double up on lines, and wrap
scraps of
towel around all chafe points.

rusty redcloud

Charles T. Low wrote:

Thanks to all for the information. It looks like a matter of meteorology and
geography. I just don't see leather around here (Thousand Islands, St.
Lawrence River), and there is very little in the way of individual boaters
doing any "whipping" of the sort we learned in boating classes, in this
instance used for binding or sewing the chafing gear to a line.

Supplies for traditional bos'n work have gotten either expensive or
hard/time-consuming to get. And if we are honest, 2/3 of it isn't
needed or cost-effective anymore. Old firehose has been popular &
effective as chafing gear for a long time all over the world and is
free. People who use leather are probably the some ones who grille
lobsters. :-)