How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Some people on a thread below claim -- in essence -- that chain has no need to
stretch in an anchoring environment any more than it needs to stretch when used
to tie a boat to a dock or a rock on shore, while others claim chain
"stretches" at a rate of double digit percent of its length and thus is just
fine.

So, I ask of these people to tell us what the shock load is on a boat jerking
up and down a three foot wave, its chain rode pulled tight. Compare the
"stretch" of that chain with the stretch of an appropriate mixed rode in terms
of orders of magnitude difference in shock loads.

hint: it is a bunch. it is also so easy to understand than millions of high
school boys across the can do explain it.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

On Friday 14 May 2004 1:14 pm in rec.boats JAXAshby wrote:


So, I ask of these people to tell us what the shock load is on a boat
jerking
up and down a three foot wave, its chain rode pulled tight. Compare the
"stretch" of that chain with the stretch of an appropriate mixed rode in
terms of orders of magnitude difference in shock loads.

What an asshole.
You obviously do not understand why you should pay out 4xdepth of chain.
A little understanding of force vectors then explains why the chain
cannot be pulled tight.

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Please show the quote where *anybody* has posted that chain
stretches.

gene, *YOU* did. you may not understand that you did, nevertheless you most
certainly did claim chain stretches, for you claimed that an all chain rode
will not pull an anchor loose or the deck chocks off when the wind and waves
pick up.

The ONLY way for that to NOT happen is for the chain to stretch.

So, gene, just how much do you think chain stretches?

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

your narrow minded and
unsupported posits.

not my posits, gene, but rather the posits (your term) of the physicists, oil
rig designers, US Navy and every other person able to pass a high school
science course.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Please show the quote where I said I used an all chain rode.

the statement was not that you actually use anything at all to anchor, but
rather that you stupidly argue that all chain rode will not jerk the anchor
and/or deck chocks loose when the wind and waves pick up.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Physics, indeed!

yup, that is where the physics and mathematics of catinaries is taught.

You should have sat through a few intro classes of
logic, instead.

never took any *intro* courses in logic at the college level, but take quite a
number of upper level logic courses. (had the *intro* well covered in high
school)

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

so, NON-asshole, wanna explain to us the forces of catenaries?

Of course you don't want to even try. Obviously, by your statement below, you
don't have a clew of the forces involved. (dumb cluck that you are, you are
not even aware that the math and physics of the for forces on the catenary of
nylon rode is the very same as a chain rode).

What an asshole.
You obviously do not understand why you should pay out 4xdepth of chain.
A little understanding of force vectors then explains why the chain
cannot be pulled tight.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

JAXAshby wrote:

Please show the quote where I said I used an all chain rode.


the statement was not that you actually use anything at all to anchor, but
rather that you stupidly argue that all chain rode will not jerk the anchor
and/or deck chocks loose when the wind and waves pick up.




Yawn, yet another classic Jax-Ass who gives a **** string of posts.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

JAXAshby wrote:

so, NON-asshole, wanna explain to us the forces of catenaries?

Of course you don't want to even try. Obviously, by your statement below, you
don't have a clew of the forces involved. (dumb cluck that you are, you are
not even aware that the math and physics of the for forces on the catenary of
nylon rode is the very same as a chain rode).


You still have that crappy little sailbote?

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

gene, STOP posting drunk. you talk in squared circles when you are drunk.
knock it off for a couple days and then come back.

Please show the quote where *anybody* has posted that chain
stretches.

gene, *YOU* did. you may not understand that you did, nevertheless you most
certainly did claim chain stretches, for you claimed that an all chain rode
will not pull an anchor loose or the deck chocks off when the wind and waves
pick up.

The ONLY way for that to NOT happen is for the chain to stretch.



Silly and foolish.... non-scientific and clearly erroneous conclusion.
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line..... too
bad gravity screws up your "ideal" scenario. Please return to Physics
101 and retake for passing grade..... thank you... goodbye....


--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

I teach a college level physics course

BULL ****! no chance in hell. For *IF* you did, you *WOULD* know the physics
and math involved in a catenary, which -- obvious from your posts you do not.

knock it off, gene. you are way too drunk. sleep it off for a couple days and
then come back.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

hoary, go back to dreaming about your glory days racing wooden dinghies back in
the 1930's and all the junior high school girls swooning over you.

Please show the quote where I said I used an all chain rode.


the statement was not that you actually use anything at all to anchor, but
rather that you stupidly argue that all chain rode will not jerk the anchor
and/or deck chocks loose when the wind and waves pick up.




Yawn, yet another classic Jax-Ass who gives a **** string of posts.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

You still have that crappy little sailbote?


that is PORTA-bote, not sailbote, and no I didn't buy the sail kit to go with
it. and it is not crappy either. the Porta-bote is a fine dinghy, much better
than my Achilles dinghy.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

You posted on numerous occasions that I put others
at risk by anchoring with all chain rode.

gene, what the hell did you study in college? first you claim you studied
physics (obviously a lie) and now you are trying to claim to understand
English. did you go to a technical college where English was taught as a
second language.

what I said was you use all chain you endanger others with your reckless
behavior. Clearly (to native speakers of English) that statement is assumptive
rather than normative.

dry out for a few days, gene, and then come back.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Demonstrating, once again, that no one has ever won an argument with
the village idiot.

================================================== ==
On 15 May 2004 01:29:53 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

so, NON-asshole, wanna explain to us the forces of catenaries?

Of course you don't want to even try. Obviously, by your statement below, you
don't have a clew of the forces involved. (dumb cluck that you are, you are
not even aware that the math and physics of the for forces on the catenary of
nylon rode is the very same as a chain rode).

What an asshole.
You obviously do not understand why you should pay out 4xdepth of chain.
A little understanding of force vectors then explains why the chain
cannot be pulled tight.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

On Saturday 15 May 2004 2:29 am in rec.boats JAXAshby wrote:

so, NON-asshole, wanna explain to us the forces of catenaries?

Of course you don't want to even try. Obviously, by your statement below,
you
don't have a clew of the forces involved. (dumb cluck that you are, you
are not even aware that the math and physics of the for forces on the
catenary of nylon rode is the very same as a chain rode).

What an asshole.
You obviously do not understand why you should pay out 4xdepth of chain.
A little understanding of force vectors then explains why the chain
cannot be pulled tight.

Please get a clue and learn not to top-post.

Chain lying on the bottom is not a catenary. It is a variable load
in equilibrium with the forces acting on the hull. It only becomes
a catenary when the last link has lifted from the bottom and the
anchor is about to break out. If this point is ever reached it means
that the chain was too light and/or too short.

Of course, we could consider the case of the idiot who pays out only
enough chain to reach the bottom and then crowds on sail in a
storm. In this case the chain may become tight or the anchor may
break out. Darwin will probably then do the world a favour by removing
said idiot from the gene pool.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

gene, you become a fraud when you have had too much to drink. knock it off for
a few days and you will probably feel better.

Physics, indeed!

yup, that is where the physics and mathematics of catinaries is taught.


No sh*t! I've had a lot of math, physics, chemistry, etc...... but
I've never heard of a "catinaries." What the hell is that???

Oh, wow, if you mean catenary..... shame on you.... you already know
how chain "stretches." JAX, are you trolling again??? Shame on you.

You should have sat through a few intro classes of
logic, instead.

never took any *intro* courses in logic at the college level, but take quite
a
number of upper level logic courses. (had the *intro* well covered in high
school)


I didn't took (sic) any upper level courses until I had taken enough
English to understand them. You shouldn't have either.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

I've had a lot of math, physics, chemistry, etc.

*IF* ever were true, you plainly have lost most of what you may have ever
learned.

At least that is the conclusion to be drawn if we take your posts as evidence.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

I didn't took (sic) any upper level courses

I know, gene. We all know.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

gene? English as third language in that "technical" college you went to?

don't drive drunk, gene. don't drive at all if that is the only way you can
avoid driving drunk.

also, don't anchor.

You posted on numerous occasions that I put others
at risk by anchoring with all chain rode.

gene, what the hell did you study in college? first you claim you studied
physics (obviously a lie) and now you are trying to claim to understand
English. did you go to a technical college where English was taught as a
second language.

what I said was you use all chain you endanger others with your reckless
behavior. Clearly (to native speakers of English) that statement is
assumptive
rather than normative.

You said,

"gene tells us *he* thinks lifting a 35# anchor is too much for him
physically and therefore he is happy to endanger the lives of others
by his reckless use of all chain rode in windy wavey conditions."

"are you willing to go to jail for injurying someone and/or damaging
shoreline when your boat anchor breaks loose and/or you tear your deck
chocks loose due to strong winds and waves?

"dude, you use the same justification for you criminal behavior
anchoring as did drunk drivers 20 years ago."

That doesn't sound much like, "what I said was you use all chain
......" to me. It is just another intentional misquote.

Have you found even ONE example of ANY accident EVER caused by all
chain rode??? Hmmmm? Willing to concede defeat yet, are you going
to keep posting your unsupported nonsense????













Gawd, you're easy...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

And drunk or sober, I've got your number....


no, you are drunk, and no, you don't understand a thing about anchoring. go
sleep it off.

(why do powerboaters drink so much???)

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

wayne, any attempt at rational discussion with you is obviously futile by the
first attempt. you insist that anything you are unable to understand can not
possibly exist.

hell, even drunk gene has enough native intelligence to admit he doesn't know
squat.

From: Wayne.B
Date: 5/14/2004 10:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Demonstrating, once again, that no one has ever won an argument with
the village idiot.

================================================= ===
On 15 May 2004 01:29:53 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

so, NON-asshole, wanna explain to us the forces of catenaries?

Of course you don't want to even try. Obviously, by your statement below,
you
don't have a clew of the forces involved. (dumb cluck that you are, you are
not even aware that the math and physics of the for forces on the catenary
of
nylon rode is the very same as a chain rode).

What an asshole.
You obviously do not understand why you should pay out 4xdepth of chain.
A little understanding of force vectors then explains why the chain
cannot be pulled tight.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

chris, you make the point that the all chain crowd is endangering the lives of
all around them, but please understand the amount of chain needed to keep some
on the bottom in winds above say 15 is HUGE.

Chain lying on the bottom is not a catenary. It is a variable load
in equilibrium with the forces acting on the hull. It only becomes
a catenary when the last link has lifted from the bottom and the
anchor is about to break out. If this point is ever reached it means
that the chain was too light and/or too short.

Of course, we could consider the case of the idiot who pays out only
enough chain to reach the bottom and then crowds on sail in a
storm. In this case the chain may become tight or the anchor may
break out. Darwin will probably then do the world a favour by removing
said idiot from the gene pool.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

On Saturday 15 May 2004 2:35 pm in rec.boats JAXAshby wrote:

chris, you make the point that the all chain crowd is endangering the
lives of all around them, but please understand the amount of chain needed
to keep some on the bottom in winds above say 15 is HUGE.

I made no such point, and you are wrong. If 4xdepth of chain is all
lifted then your chain is much too light. No amount of rope is going
to change the fact.

You are clearly either trolling or clueless, either way the best reply
is PLONK.

Chain lying on the bottom is not a catenary. It is a variable load
in equilibrium with the forces acting on the hull. It only becomes
a catenary when the last link has lifted from the bottom and the
anchor is about to break out. If this point is ever reached it means
that the chain was too light and/or too short.

Of course, we could consider the case of the idiot who pays out only
enough chain to reach the bottom and then crowds on sail in a
storm. In this case the chain may become tight or the anchor may
break out. Darwin will probably then do the world a favour by removing
said idiot from the gene pool.


--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

chris -- tries to -- say(s) he an asshole with his post below, bet let's ignore
that part and just tell him that a boat with long chain is one hell of a lever
and will easily lift one HUGE amount of chain off the bottom in even 15 knot
winds.

Let's suggest that Chris -- as long as he is an expert of this stuff -- tell us
just how many pounds of chain can be lifted how many feet in a 15 knot -- let
alone 25 knot -- wind.

On the other hand, maybe -- jes maybees yous understoods -- chris is irritated
to find out that his 4x all chain rode will pull loose from the bottom.

I keep trying to say chris is not an asshole, but it shore is tough not to.

maybe he is just too damned lazy to go boating responsibly.

chris, you make the point that the all chain crowd is endangering the
lives of all around them, but please understand the amount of chain needed
to keep some on the bottom in winds above say 15 is HUGE.

I made no such point, and you are wrong. If 4xdepth of chain is all
lifted then your chain is much too light. No amount of rope is going
to change the fact.

You are clearly either trolling or clueless, either way the best reply
is PLONK.

Chain lying on the bottom is not a catenary. It is a variable load
in equilibrium with the forces acting on the hull. It only becomes
a catenary when the last link has lifted from the bottom and the
anchor is about to break out. If this point is ever reached it means
that the chain was too light and/or too short.

Of course, we could consider the case of the idiot who pays out only
enough chain to reach the bottom and then crowds on sail in a
storm. In this case the chain may become tight or the anchor may
break out. Darwin will probably then do the world a favour by removing
said idiot from the gene pool.


--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

you misunderstood, gene. I was saying nothing other that trying to talk to a
drunk is a worthless endeaver.

come back in a few days.

And drunk or sober, I've got your number....


no, you are drunk, and no, you don't understand a thing about anchoring. go
sleep it off.

(why do powerboaters drink so much???)

Ok.... attacking the poster..... that's ok, I'll take that as your
admission of inflexibility, binary thinking, and just flat running out
of facts and logic..... we'll just let this one die here since all
we're doing now is raising your blood pressure.

I await your next irrational diatribe.....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

I await your next irrational diatribe.....


gene, you are a glutton for punishment. drunkenly, you claimed that all chain
rode is acceptable behavior in windy and wavy conditions, and -- that was shone
to be patently stupid -- you drunkenly claimed to be a college physics
professor even though it was clear you didn't even know the terms used.

go dry out for a few days and then come back. nobody will mention your stupid
behavior if you don't bring it up.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

"a boat with long chain is one hell of a lever" ???? I suppose you
could row a boat with a rope, too!


so much for the knowledge of the self-claimed "professor of physics"

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Maybe you should email these people and tell them they are drunk, too.

http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/anchor.htm


gene, you are still have not sobered up enough to realize you are quoting a
non-qual in your drunken belief that if someone somewhere wrote something it
HAS to be true.

some college "professor of physics" you are.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

Any accidents?

well, there was the cat that hit the Moody 52 (I heard it was a Moody) and ran
both into the breadwater at the USNA. Only ten minutes before the cat almost
hit me. ten minutes after that there was the ketch with less windage than my
boat and two (count 'em, two!) cqr's (each twice the weight of my anchor) and 7
to 1 scope all chain rode *each*.

virtually every boat you see dragging anchor in winds of 20+ knots and wave of
3+ feet are on all chain. the clowns claim it is "an Act of God" rather than
admit stupidity.

How much does chain stretch and is it important?
 

G Reads like more typical Jax BS ....

1. A cat, that Jax knows has all chain, drags down on a Moody 52 and
then pulls both (we must assume the Moody had all chain since it also
dragged) into a breakwater .... and no one does a thing to stop either
boat......

2. A ketch (with less windage than Jax's boat, so must be in the low
30's in length - at best), that has TWO complete ALL chain rodes (wonder
where they stow it all... not impossible....eg), does something ...
typically, Jax can't or won't explain what that something is, but leaves
us to assume that it justifies his statements .... and again, no one
does or can do anything to correct whatever it is that happens..... and
ole Jax is out there measuring everyone's scope ( I can just see this.
Dons his scuba gear and dives everyone's anchor rode with a measuring
tape, takes bottom samples to confirm the proper anchor type....)

Give it a rest, Jax ... you started a troll with stupid, unproved
statements, made a bunch more incorrect ones regarding ships, Navy, oil
rig, etc. (correction, combination incorrect and unsubstantiated [in
many cases no comments as to what the relevance might be]), and in
general showed that you know less about anchoring than you do
navigation, rules, boat handling (power), etc..

Let's hope this particular troll is ended .... nuff said.

otn

PS Ya, I know... []

JAXAshby BS'd:
Any accidents?


well, there was the cat that hit the Moody 52 (I heard it was a Moody) and ran
both into the breadwater at the USNA. Only ten minutes before the cat almost
hit me. ten minutes after that there was the ketch with less windage than my
boat and two (count 'em, two!) cqr's (each twice the weight of my anchor) and 7
to 1 scope all chain rode *each*.

virtually every boat you see dragging anchor in winds of 20+ knots and wave of
3+ feet are on all chain. the clowns claim it is "an Act of God" rather than
admit stupidity.