Why no radiators in boats?
 

Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems, why
hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
Paul

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Paul Schilter wrote:

Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems, why
hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
Paul




Probably because it is difficult to get enough airflow to a radiator.
There's also the problem of the exhaust. Dry stacks are noisy, smelly,
and throw off a lot of heat in the boat's interior.

But there are closed cooling systems...look up "keel cooling."

Why no radiators in boats?
 

That's a good point about the exhaust ... never really appreciated that
before ... since the water's there to cool the exhaust, might as well pump
it into the engine cooling system (unless it's a closed system but that
still requires a heat exchanger). Yeah ... can you imagine the safety issues
with a dry exhaust system on a pleasure craft ... yikes. Although, for
cooking up that fish dinner ... nah, forget it.

Harry Krause wrote in message
...
Paul Schilter wrote:

Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems,
why
hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
Paul




Probably because it is difficult to get enough airflow to a radiator.
There's also the problem of the exhaust. Dry stacks are noisy, smelly,
and throw off a lot of heat in the boat's interior.

But there are closed cooling systems...look up "keel cooling."

Why no radiators in boats?
 

an you imagine the safety issues
with a dry exhaust system on a pleasure craft ..

The first time I ever fished offshore in Hatteras (circa 1964?) we went out
with Cap'n Eif O'Neil in a 3x' boat with a centrally mounted V-8 and vertical
stacks like you see on a truck, with , dare I say it, asbestos sleeves on them.

40 years of debauchery later and I am still alive!

It was loud like a Harley but not oppressive.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

In layman's terms, an inboard engine in a planing hull works very hard

We have a winner!, add to that, we don't have 140+ MPH air going through the
radiator like you would have with a 454 Corvette at WOT and you start to see
the problem..
Water is such a good coolant, it would be silly to ignore it, if you are
sitting in it. That is why they like to build power plants by the river too.
The real trick is to heat exchange the "nasty" water without actually letting
it get into your engine (which runs glycol mix). In the case of an outboard
that is not worth the weight and money. They just try to harden the block with
aluminum and zincs.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Greg wrote:

an you imagine the safety issues
with a dry exhaust system on a pleasure craft ..


The first time I ever fished offshore in Hatteras (circa 1964?) we went out
with Cap'n Eif O'Neil in a 3x' boat with a centrally mounted V-8 and vertical
stacks like you see on a truck, with , dare I say it, asbestos sleeves on them.

40 years of debauchery later and I am still alive!

It was loud like a Harley but not oppressive.


There are pleasure boats around with dry stack exhausts. The local
publisher of a cruising magazine had a 28-footer built with a dry stack,
but he dumped the boat after a season. Noise, soot, heat. But on larger
pleasure craft, the stack can be isolated and insulated. You still have
that stack, though, and sometimes some soot.

On a cruiser, a closed cooling system with keel cooler and a wet exhaust
presents interesting possibilities.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Finally, where are you gonna mount that radiator? Take your yacht club
pennants on the front of the bow off, and line up three automotive radiators
across there, with fans . . . and black radiator hose running for and aft?
:-)

Why no radiators in boats?
 

works for air boats...

--
Capt. Matt Johnson
Naples, Fl
www.fl-ecotours.com




"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems,
why
hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
Paul

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Capt. Matt wrote:
works for air boats...

Noisy. Very noisy. On an airboat, no-one cares about the fan, it's
lost in the hurricane. On a boat, you don't want to start the engine
for a little assist at the dock and suddenly have to put up with
yelling over a cooling fan.

Many boaters crave tranquility on the water, not hi speed thrills.

Besides, a rad and fan weigh more than a piece of hose and a
waterpump you already need, especially since, if you don't want hot
exhaust pipes in the bedroom, you want additional cooling capacity
to cool the pipes.

It's cheaper and less hassle to use raw water or even a keel cooler.

With a rad, you also have a blast of hot air to contend with.

Why no radiators in boats? Most boats have radiators......
 

Actually,

It's a technical point but most boats of any size will have one, two, three, or
more
devices to transfer heat from the engine coolant to the air. My boat has two.

My Red Dot heaters are radiators and they do reduce the temperature of the
coolant when operating..........but nowhere nearly enough to function as the
sole cooling system without the heat exchanger doing
about 90% of the job.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web. There are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. I think even if you used yahoo, and
typed closed fresh water system , and the word boat, you'll get plenty of
pages to go too. Don't respond now, and say you knew that, because your
posts, certainly do not say a word about them, and those systems, are not
new, used since maybe the 60's
God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they say.

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
Capt. Matt wrote:
works for air boats...

Noisy. Very noisy. On an airboat, no-one cares about the fan, it's
lost in the hurricane. On a boat, you don't want to start the engine
for a little assist at the dock and suddenly have to put up with
yelling over a cooling fan.

Many boaters crave tranquility on the water, not hi speed thrills.

Besides, a rad and fan weigh more than a piece of hose and a
waterpump you already need, especially since, if you don't want hot
exhaust pipes in the bedroom, you want additional cooling capacity
to cool the pipes.

It's cheaper and less hassle to use raw water or even a keel cooler.

With a rad, you also have a blast of hot air to contend with.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Lots of closed freshwater systems. Lot's of radiators? Not. My boat is a
closed freshwater system and uses a heat exchanger. Is a radiator in some
respects that it cools the engine coolant. But the heat exchanger is used
on all these closed cooling systems. Do a google search and enlighten
yourself on on these freshwater engines are cooled.
Bill

"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web. There
are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. I think even if you used yahoo, and
typed closed fresh water system , and the word boat, you'll get plenty
of
pages to go too. Don't respond now, and say you knew that, because your
posts, certainly do not say a word about them, and those systems, are not
new, used since maybe the 60's
God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they say.

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
Capt. Matt wrote:
works for air boats...

Noisy. Very noisy. On an airboat, no-one cares about the fan, it's
lost in the hurricane. On a boat, you don't want to start the engine
for a little assist at the dock and suddenly have to put up with
yelling over a cooling fan.

Many boaters crave tranquility on the water, not hi speed thrills.

Besides, a rad and fan weigh more than a piece of hose and a
waterpump you already need, especially since, if you don't want hot
exhaust pipes in the bedroom, you want additional cooling capacity
to cool the pipes.

It's cheaper and less hassle to use raw water or even a keel cooler.

With a rad, you also have a blast of hot air to contend with.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web. There
are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. I think even if you used yahoo, and
typed closed fresh water system , and the word boat, you'll get plenty
of
pages to go too. Don't respond now, and say you knew that, because your
posts, certainly do not say a word about them, and those systems, are not
new, used since maybe the 60's
God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they say.

There are indeed many boats with closed cooling systems, but I have never
seen one with a radiator and fan.

Most use a heat exchanger linked with sea water.

Perhaps you could supply us with the specific link to a radiator/fan cooled
inboard?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Sandy and All,
I'd like to thank everyone for their comments. I sort of figured that
excess heat and getting cool air to a radiator would be a hindrance. I
definitely think a closed system is the way to go even in fresh water,
though I probably wouldn't pass on a boat with regular open cooling system
since I do boat in fresh water. In salt water I'd only buy a closed system.
Paul

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:57:13 -0400, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems,
why
hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
Paul


In layman's terms, an inboard engine in a planing hull works very hard (as
compared to a automobile engine) because the inboard engine is always in
the
automotive equivalent of first gear. The water in a radiator is hot,
whereas the raw water (from a lake, river or ocean) used for cooling an
inboard engine is at the very most less than half as hot as radiator
coolant, and most of the time the raw water is around one-third the temp
it
would be if it were radiator coolant, so an inboard engine must run cooler
with raw water than the same engine would run if it had a radiator.

A fan and radiator on the end of the engine would take up extra room,
about
1 foot or so, in a small inboard runabout, room which really is not
available.

Also, a mechanically driven fan which cools a radiator takes some
horsepower
from an engine. An inboard engine does not lose this small amount of its
horsepower.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

http://www.boatered.com/forum/photo_...Album&mid=691&
cid=21675&page=1&pic=Engine.jpg

"Netsock" wrote in message
...
"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web. There
are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. I think even if you used yahoo,
and
typed closed fresh water system , and the word boat, you'll get plenty
of
pages to go too. Don't respond now, and say you knew that, because
your
posts, certainly do not say a word about them, and those systems, are
not
new, used since maybe the 60's
God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they say.

There are indeed many boats with closed cooling systems, but I have never
seen one with a radiator and fan.

Most use a heat exchanger linked with sea water.

Perhaps you could supply us with the specific link to a radiator/fan
cooled
inboard?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Steve,
Heck of a conversion job, how does it workout? Is overheating a problem?
What's the temperature in the engine compartment?
Paul

"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote in message ...

http://www.boatered.com/forum/photo_...Album&mid=691&
cid=21675&page=1&pic=Engine.jpg

"Netsock" wrote in message
...
"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web.
There
are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. I think even if you used yahoo,
and
typed closed fresh water system , and the word boat, you'll get
plenty
of
pages to go too. Don't respond now, and say you knew that, because
your
posts, certainly do not say a word about them, and those systems, are
not
new, used since maybe the 60's
God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they
say.

There are indeed many boats with closed cooling systems, but I have
never
seen one with a radiator and fan.

Most use a heat exchanger linked with sea water.

Perhaps you could supply us with the specific link to a radiator/fan
cooled
inboard?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Thanks, but I really can't take the credit, just responding to the request
for links. Look for Poleka's posts at
http://www.boatered.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3 for more details.

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Steve,
Heck of a conversion job, how does it workout? Is overheating a
problem?
What's the temperature in the engine compartment?
Paul

"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote in message ...


http://www.boatered.com/forum/photo_...Album&mid=691&
cid=21675&page=1&pic=Engine.jpg

"Netsock" wrote in message
...
"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and
the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web.
There
are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. I think even if you used
yahoo,
and
typed closed fresh water system , and the word boat, you'll get
plenty
of
pages to go too. Don't respond now, and say you knew that, because
your
posts, certainly do not say a word about them, and those systems,
are
not
new, used since maybe the 60's
God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they
say.

There are indeed many boats with closed cooling systems, but I have
never
seen one with a radiator and fan.

Most use a heat exchanger linked with sea water.

Perhaps you could supply us with the specific link to a radiator/fan
cooled
inboard?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Why no radiators in boats?
 

I have a radiator. Its called a heat exchanger.
KH


"Drumm Law" wrote in message
...
Finally, where are you gonna mount that radiator? Take your yacht club
pennants on the front of the bow off, and line up three automotive
radiators
across there, with fans . . . and black radiator hose running for and aft?
:-)

Why no radiators in boats?
 

I have a radiator. Its called a heat exchanger.
KH

Technically, a heat exchanger is not a radiator.

A radiator transfers the heat of coolant to the atmosphere. IOW, it "radiates"
heat.

A heat exchanger, as the term is commonly applied, transfers heat between
liquids.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Thats a lame argument. Think about it.

KH

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I have a radiator. Its called a heat exchanger.
KH

Technically, a heat exchanger is not a radiator.

A radiator transfers the heat of coolant to the atmosphere. IOW, it
"radiates"
heat.

A heat exchanger, as the term is commonly applied, transfers heat between
liquids.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Thanks for the link Steve, but I'm sure you will agree this is the
exception, as to the rule. It also looks homemade.

My reply was aimed more towards Joseph, who stated:

"Sometimes, I really get shocked, reading some of this crap ! and the
responses are just as dumb !!!
People, call some dealers, look at the boats for sale on the web. There are
plenty of inboards, with closed
fresh water systems, using radiators. "

And he finishes his unfounded insults with...

"God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they say."

Aside from the irony, I say to him...show me "plenty of inboards" using
radiators.

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote in message ...

http://www.boatered.com/forum/photo_...Album&mid=691&
cid=21675&page=1&pic=Engine.jpg

Why no radiators in boats?
 

I don't think so.

There is a known difference between heat exchangers and radiators.

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
"Kevin in San Diego" wrote in message
news:eTGjc.7823$6L3.6703@fed1read05...
Thats a lame argument. Think about it.

KH

Why no radiators in boats?
 

"God Bless, the dumb and the stupid because they know,not what they say."

Aside from the irony, I say to him...show me "plenty of inboards" using
radiators.

One of the many reasons that we don't comonly see radiators on inboard boats
is that
a normally sized radiator would fail to sufficiently cool the engine. In an
automotive or truck applicaton, a portion
of the engine cooling is accomplished by air moving across the block and heads
as the vehicle travels down the highway. In some extreme cases, engines with
enough fins attached to sufficiently increase the surface area exposed to the
moving air can be air cooled. No such conditions exist in an engine
room.....(we hope!)

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Thats a lame argument. Think about it.

KH

You're right. There's no difference between a cow and a horse, either. Both are
mammals, walk on four legs, eat grass, and are commonly domesticated. Just as
devices designed to transfer heat to the atmosphere and devices designed to
transfer heat from one liquid to another are not different in concept and one
term is properly interchangeable with the other, so it is also a waste of time
to nitpick whether an animal is a cow or a horse. (At least until you want to
go for a ride or get some milk to make butter and cheese).

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Paul Schilter paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:
: Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems, why
: hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
: Paul

Your "argument by incorrect assertion" is untrue regarding "external
water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems".

As others have mentioned, boats use heat exchangers vs. radiators.
What are ya gonna do? Have a fan behind the radiator mounted on the
front of the boat (think how silly that would look) to cool the
radiator at idle speed?

FWIW, my father had a MercCruiser 470 with a heat exchanger. He had
nothing but trouble with it (overheating). I have an old OMC V-6 without
a heat exchanger and have had zero problems with the cooling system
since 1982. There's plentful cool water in the lake for cooling an engine.
Not using it doesn't make much sense (unless the boat is run in a salt
water environment).

b.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

That 470 has a small exchanger or a big one. My 470 has the larger exchanger
and runs very cool.
KH

wrote in message
...
Paul Schilter paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:
: Since external water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems,
why
: hasn't a car type radiator system with fan ever been used?
: Paul

Your "argument by incorrect assertion" is untrue regarding "external
water used in cooling engines causes a lot of problems".

As others have mentioned, boats use heat exchangers vs. radiators.
What are ya gonna do? Have a fan behind the radiator mounted on the
front of the boat (think how silly that would look) to cool the
radiator at idle speed?

FWIW, my father had a MercCruiser 470 with a heat exchanger. He had
nothing but trouble with it (overheating). I have an old OMC V-6 without
a heat exchanger and have had zero problems with the cooling system
since 1982. There's plentful cool water in the lake for cooling an
engine.
Not using it doesn't make much sense (unless the boat is run in a salt
water environment).

b.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Why no radiators in boats?
 

(Gould 0738) wrote in message ...
Thats a lame argument. Think about it.

KH

You're right. There's no difference between a cow and a horse, either. Both are
mammals, walk on four legs, eat grass, and are commonly domesticated. Just as
devices designed to transfer heat to the atmosphere and devices designed to
transfer heat from one liquid to another are not different in concept and one
term is properly interchangeable with the other, so it is also a waste of time
to nitpick whether an animal is a cow or a horse. (At least until you want to
go for a ride or get some milk to make butter and cheese).

I gotta come to KH's defense. As an engineer let me explain that
there is no difference at all between a "radiator" and heat exchanger.
They are both heat exchangers. The physical principles that govern
their operation are identical. One is a water to air heat exchanger
and one is a water to water heat exchanger. They just use different
fluids. This distinction only alters a few of the variables in a
machine designers calculations. The principal means of heat transfer
in both is conduction and convection. Radiation plays such an
insignificant part that it would be ignored by all but the most anal
engineers. It's not the difference between a horse and cow, it's the
difference between an arabian and a quarter horse. Same basic animal,
different applications. If a radiator actually radiated energy away
as the sun radiates energy to earth, why must it be put in front of
the car with air forced through it? www.howstuffworks.com will back
me up on this. Look up "car cooling system" and click on the radiator
link. In the first sentence it calls it a heat exchanger. You can
prove it to yourself on your car by blocking the grille with cardboard
and disabling your radiator fan, get on the highway and watch the
temperature gauge.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Just as
devices designed to transfer heat to the atmosphere and devices designed to
transfer heat from one liquid to another are not different in concept

rebutted with:

One is a water to air heat exchanger
and one is a water to water heat exchanger.

Same statement.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

A heat exchanger, as the term is commonly applied, transfers heat between
liquids.



Technically, a "radiator" is not a radiator. A real radiator is what
you see on the floor of an old apartment building with no forced air
flow through it.

"As the term is commonly applied........"

Walk into your nearest auto shop this fall and ask to have your heat exchanger
serviced. You'll get more than a few strange looks.

Send a marine mechaninc down to your boat to change the zincs on your
"radiator"
and the wrench might sense this is a perfect time (and you're the perfect
client)
to recommend servicing the framus and the diogenator as long as he's aboard- it
will only run an extra $200.

If it takes a physics lecture to shore up a theory that "radiators and heat
exchangers are really the same thing" it doesn't, in the real world, address
the issues of this thread.

Those seem to have been:

1. Why don't we see radiators in boats?

schools of thought in response

a. Of course we do. I can show you hundreds of inboards with radiators

b. boats use a liquid to liquid heat exchanger rather than an automotive type
radiator to cool the engine.

c. There is no difference between an automobile radiator and a heat exchanger
on a boat.


If this were a multiple choice exam, I'd go with B. Thanks anyway, though.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

"Chris" wrote in message
om...

[snip]

Air and water are both fluids.

[snip]

Didn't this guy say he's an engineer?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Why no radiators in boats?
 

"Netsock" wrote in message
...
"Chris" wrote in message
om...

[snip]

Air and water are both fluids.

[snip]

Didn't this guy say he's an engineer?


Air and water *are* both fluids.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Chris,
I believe that you are correct in your assessment, but common usage
would indicate otherwise. No car company I know of calls the finned cooling
device a heat exchanger nor have I heard of a boat manufacturer referring to
a radiator in their vessel. As you say they could call them either way but
that would just be confusing. IMHO
Paul

"Chris" wrote in message
om...
(Gould 0738) wrote in message
...
Thats a lame argument. Think about it.

KH

You're right. There's no difference between a cow and a horse, either.
Both are
mammals, walk on four legs, eat grass, and are commonly domesticated.
Just as
devices designed to transfer heat to the atmosphere and devices designed
to
transfer heat from one liquid to another are not different in concept
and one
term is properly interchangeable with the other, so it is also a waste
of time
to nitpick whether an animal is a cow or a horse. (At least until you
want to
go for a ride or get some milk to make butter and cheese).

I gotta come to KH's defense. As an engineer let me explain that
there is no difference at all between a "radiator" and heat exchanger.
They are both heat exchangers. The physical principles that govern
their operation are identical. One is a water to air heat exchanger
and one is a water to water heat exchanger. They just use different
fluids. This distinction only alters a few of the variables in a
machine designers calculations. The principal means of heat transfer
in both is conduction and convection. Radiation plays such an
insignificant part that it would be ignored by all but the most anal
engineers. It's not the difference between a horse and cow, it's the
difference between an arabian and a quarter horse. Same basic animal,
different applications. If a radiator actually radiated energy away
as the sun radiates energy to earth, why must it be put in front of
the car with air forced through it? www.howstuffworks.com will back
me up on this. Look up "car cooling system" and click on the radiator
link. In the first sentence it calls it a heat exchanger. You can
prove it to yourself on your car by blocking the grille with cardboard
and disabling your radiator fan, get on the highway and watch the
temperature gauge.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

OK, Radiators, heat exchangers, air to fluid, fluid to fluid, air to air,
blah, blah blah. They all get rid of heat or absorb it, whatever - there's
a transfer of heat from something "hot" to something less hot. or vice
versa.

The original question was really asking why are there not car type
"radiators" on boats. This semantical stuff, while interesting (NOT), is
irrelevant, imho.

Has anyone yet pointed out that it simply works better to exchange motor
heat with an unlimited supply of cool liquid rather than air? Cars first
take the heat from the block with liquid for this very reason. Air cooled
engines are generally very small in comparison.

In a car, however, the liquid is limited because it's a closed system and
therefore the next step is to transfer to the only unlimited cool thing
around, the air.

Boats goe through an unlimited supply of cool liquid which is better at
taking away the heat than an air-based "radiator". Therefore, the use of a
small fluid-fluid heat exchanger rather than a large fluid-air heat
exchanger. Some bypass this also with lake or ocean water cooling through
the block w/o exchanger.

Air boats, being the main exception to this use car type heat exchangers,
aka "radiators" because (1) they *can* (space and air movement allows them)
and (2) they don't have an outboard or outdrive leg, or jet intake to
easily suck in the water. Sure they could have a water inlet like a
straight inboard, but because of (1) above, they don't have to.

Just mho,

Cam

Why no radiators in boats?
 

flu·id (flu'id)
n.
A continuous, amorphous substance whose molecules move freely past one
another and that has the tendency to assume the shape of its container; a
liquid or gas.

"Netsock" wrote in message
...
"Chris" wrote in message
om...

[snip]

Air and water are both fluids.

[snip]

Didn't this guy say he's an engineer?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

Why no radiators in boats?
 

"Netsock" wrote in message ...
"Chris" wrote in message
om...

[snip]

Air and water are both fluids.

[snip]

Didn't this guy say he's an engineer?

They are both fluids. Water is a liquid and air is a gas but they are
both fluid. Fluid does not equal liquid. Look it up.

Why no radiators in boats?
 

Of course, I'm not suggesting that we all change the way we refer to
our car parts. I was responding to and correcting the guy who said
that heat exchangers and radiators are different not only in name but
in how they work.
He made a statement that was incorrect based on a misconception of the
physics of how radiators work so I had to respond in the same vein.
As far as the issues of this thread are concerned here is my take:

The reason we don't see radiators on boats is that air is an
inefficient cooling fluid. It is a very poor conductor of heat and
has low heat capacity. On the other hand, water is an excellent
conductor of heat and has huge heat capacity. So if a huge supply of
cold water is available near the engine, it is an easy decision. As
an engineer, I'd dump all of that heat in the water rather than try to
force it into the air.

One way to understand the heat conducting properties of water is to
think about how comfortable 72 degree air is vs. 72 degree water. 72
degree water feels alot colder simply because it is carrying your body
heat away very quickly. The lake does the same thing with your engine
heat. Carries it away very quickly.

I'm new to boating and as such have never even seen a heat exchanger
on a boat (my cooling system is open) but I'd bet that they are alot
smaller than radiators in cars. This is further illustration of how
efficent water is as a cooling fluid.

Chris



(Gould 0738) wrote in message ...
A heat exchanger, as the term is commonly applied, transfers heat between
liquids.



Technically, a "radiator" is not a radiator. A real radiator is what
you see on the floor of an old apartment building with no forced air
flow through it.

"As the term is commonly applied........"

Walk into your nearest auto shop this fall and ask to have your heat exchanger
serviced. You'll get more than a few strange looks.

Send a marine mechaninc down to your boat to change the zincs on your
"radiator"
and the wrench might sense this is a perfect time (and you're the perfect
client)
to recommend servicing the framus and the diogenator as long as he's aboard- it
will only run an extra $200.

If it takes a physics lecture to shore up a theory that "radiators and heat
exchangers are really the same thing" it doesn't, in the real world, address
the issues of this thread.

Those seem to have been:

1. Why don't we see radiators in boats?

schools of thought in response

a. Of course we do. I can show you hundreds of inboards with radiators

b. boats use a liquid to liquid heat exchanger rather than an automotive type
radiator to cool the engine.

c. There is no difference between an automobile radiator and a heat exchanger
on a boat.


If this were a multiple choice exam, I'd go with B. Thanks anyway, though.