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plug on boat & rot?
hi again,
I've got yet another interesting question which some of you with more experience can likely say a few words to... I was out testing my project boat on the trailer, and ensuring the bilge pump would work right by putting the plug in the boat and filling the back end with a few inches of water. Well the bilge pump works great, however, when putting the boat plug in I felt that the wood between the inner and outer fiberglass was a wee bit slimy and the hole perhaps not as narrow as I'd like to have to ensure the plug stays in securely. What can I do here to fix this up? An idea was to get some fiberglass resin and put a thin coat in the hole as to seal things, narrow up the hole width, and strengthen the inner hole for the plug. Or perhaps a newer plug would be a big thicker... btw, the boat is a 70's era 15.5 fiberglass. I feel that the rest of the transom is fine, just this part around the hole seems to be a bit questionable. thanks Chris |
You might get away with your idea for repair.
I think you would be better off if you did a more thorough check and repair of the transom. A boat that old might have hidden damage to the wood that you won't see unless you start poking around. I think I'd seriously consider cutting away the transom up to 2" all around the drain hole for inspection. If everything's OK, you can rebuild that portion and install a new drain fitting. If you find more rot, you can schedule the time for more repair. "Chris" wrote in message .. . hi again, I've got yet another interesting question which some of you with more experience can likely say a few words to... I was out testing my project boat on the trailer, and ensuring the bilge pump would work right by putting the plug in the boat and filling the back end with a few inches of water. Well the bilge pump works great, however, when putting the boat plug in I felt that the wood between the inner and outer fiberglass was a wee bit slimy and the hole perhaps not as narrow as I'd like to have to ensure the plug stays in securely. What can I do here to fix this up? An idea was to get some fiberglass resin and put a thin coat in the hole as to seal things, narrow up the hole width, and strengthen the inner hole for the plug. Or perhaps a newer plug would be a big thicker... btw, the boat is a 70's era 15.5 fiberglass. I feel that the rest of the transom is fine, just this part around the hole seems to be a bit questionable. thanks Chris |
It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing
the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. |
Chris wrote: hi again, I've got yet another interesting question which some of you with more experience can likely say a few words to... I was out testing my project boat on the trailer, and ensuring the bilge pump would work right by putting the plug in the boat and filling the back end with a few inches of water. Well the bilge pump works great, however, when putting the boat plug in I felt that the wood between the inner and outer fiberglass was a wee bit slimy and the hole perhaps not as narrow as I'd like to have to ensure the plug stays in securely. What can I do here to fix this up? An idea was to get some fiberglass resin and put a thin coat in the hole as to seal things, narrow up the hole width, and strengthen the inner hole for the plug. Or perhaps a newer plug would be a big thicker... btw, the boat is a 70's era 15.5 fiberglass. I feel that the rest of the transom is fine, just this part around the hole seems to be a bit questionable. thanks Chris Most boats have a brass or stainless insert that is epoxied into the hole. It basically looks like a short piece of pipe with one end beveled out. This may be missing, and would account for the plug being loose feeling. Also, the plug is usually adjustable, just turn the lever a couple of turns, try again. |
Chris,
The drain plug should not go directly into the aft end. Not only will it leak, but the water will wick through the plywood and rot it. You need to buy a 1-inch brass tube and epoxy it into the drain hole. Now the rubber expansion plug will fit snug. Here's one. http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/sto...=DRAI N+TUBES You can make your own after a visit to a plumbing supply store. In a pinch, you could use a piece of PVC, but because of the thickness of the material, you'd need to enlarge the hole. "Chris" wrote in message .. . hi again, I've got yet another interesting question which some of you with more experience can likely say a few words to... I was out testing my project boat on the trailer, and ensuring the bilge pump would work right by putting the plug in the boat and filling the back end with a few inches of water. Well the bilge pump works great, however, when putting the boat plug in I felt that the wood between the inner and outer fiberglass was a wee bit slimy and the hole perhaps not as narrow as I'd like to have to ensure the plug stays in securely. What can I do here to fix this up? An idea was to get some fiberglass resin and put a thin coat in the hole as to seal things, narrow up the hole width, and strengthen the inner hole for the plug. Or perhaps a newer plug would be a big thicker... btw, the boat is a 70's era 15.5 fiberglass. I feel that the rest of the transom is fine, just this part around the hole seems to be a bit questionable. thanks Chris |
Chris,
The drain plug should not go directly into the aft end. Not only will it leak, but the water will wick through the plywood and rot it. You need to buy a 1-inch brass tube and epoxy it into the drain hole. Now the rubber expansion plug will fit snug. Here's one. http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/sto...=DRAI N+TUBES You can make your own after a visit to a plumbing supply store. In a pinch, you could use a piece of PVC, but because of the thickness of the material, you'd need to enlarge the hole. "Chris" wrote in message .. . hi again, I've got yet another interesting question which some of you with more experience can likely say a few words to... I was out testing my project boat on the trailer, and ensuring the bilge pump would work right by putting the plug in the boat and filling the back end with a few inches of water. Well the bilge pump works great, however, when putting the boat plug in I felt that the wood between the inner and outer fiberglass was a wee bit slimy and the hole perhaps not as narrow as I'd like to have to ensure the plug stays in securely. What can I do here to fix this up? An idea was to get some fiberglass resin and put a thin coat in the hole as to seal things, narrow up the hole width, and strengthen the inner hole for the plug. Or perhaps a newer plug would be a big thicker... btw, the boat is a 70's era 15.5 fiberglass. I feel that the rest of the transom is fine, just this part around the hole seems to be a bit questionable. thanks Chris |
So replacing wood with new plywood means I can cut out a shape of any size
and replace it with a close to equal piece of plywood correct? Just glass the old plywood to the new plywood, right? No concern over how big a piece of plywood is, etc? I could use two pieces of plywood for one hole? etc It appears I've got more rot than I had expected (although the transom feels strong otherwise). I've pulled out about a 1 foot x 1 foot section around the drain plug and am evaluating whether there will be anymore to go too.. Have drilled a bunch of holes in the lower inner part of the transom to see how far it spreads and allow all the wood to dry up before my final decision wrote in message ups.com... It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. |
On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:17:13 -0400, Chris wrote:
[I have rearranged the order so that it flows chronologically] wrote in message ups.com... It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. So replacing wood with new plywood means I can cut out a shape of any size and replace it with a close to equal piece of plywood correct? Just glass the old plywood to the new plywood, right? No concern over how big a piece of plywood is, etc? I could use two pieces of plywood for one hole? etc It appears I've got more rot than I had expected (although the transom feels strong otherwise). I've pulled out about a 1 foot x 1 foot section around the drain plug and am evaluating whether there will be anymore to go too.. Have drilled a bunch of holes in the lower inner part of the transom to see how far it spreads and allow all the wood to dry up before my final decision I didn't see the original thread. If it is a fiberglass boat with a plywood core, then you are probably right. You can probably get away with putting in a whole bunch of plywood more or less however you want, But don't leave any voids, and take steps to ensure that the new plywood is bonded to the adjacent old plywood. You may have to use some kind of adhesive filler for this. Epoxy, with filler, for example. On the other hand, if it is a plywood boat with a thin layer of protective glass, or glass on only the outside, then you are probably wrong. In that case you will probably need to scarf in the plywood very carefully. I'm not an expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But the whole idea behind sandwich construction is that the core experiences mostly compression loading, and the skin experiences mostly tension. Of course, this means that you have to do a good job tapering the fiberglass thickness where you meld old glass with new glass. I think I have seen a 12:1 ratio recommended. That is, if the glass is 1/8" thick, you would taper over 1-1/2". --Mac |
One piece is much better. Those joints in the wood have little strength.
"Chris" wrote in message ... So replacing wood with new plywood means I can cut out a shape of any size and replace it with a close to equal piece of plywood correct? Just glass the old plywood to the new plywood, right? No concern over how big a piece of plywood is, etc? I could use two pieces of plywood for one hole? etc It appears I've got more rot than I had expected (although the transom feels strong otherwise). I've pulled out about a 1 foot x 1 foot section around the drain plug and am evaluating whether there will be anymore to go too.. Have drilled a bunch of holes in the lower inner part of the transom to see how far it spreads and allow all the wood to dry up before my final decision wrote in message ups.com... It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. |
Yes it is a fiberglass boat, a 15.5' v type hull.
The wood from the drain plug and the first foot at the boot seems to be rotten.. We'll see how much though, letting it dry out now. "Mac" wrote in message ... On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:17:13 -0400, Chris wrote: [I have rearranged the order so that it flows chronologically] wrote in message ups.com... It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. So replacing wood with new plywood means I can cut out a shape of any size and replace it with a close to equal piece of plywood correct? Just glass the old plywood to the new plywood, right? No concern over how big a piece of plywood is, etc? I could use two pieces of plywood for one hole? etc It appears I've got more rot than I had expected (although the transom feels strong otherwise). I've pulled out about a 1 foot x 1 foot section around the drain plug and am evaluating whether there will be anymore to go too.. Have drilled a bunch of holes in the lower inner part of the transom to see how far it spreads and allow all the wood to dry up before my final decision I didn't see the original thread. If it is a fiberglass boat with a plywood core, then you are probably right. You can probably get away with putting in a whole bunch of plywood more or less however you want, But don't leave any voids, and take steps to ensure that the new plywood is bonded to the adjacent old plywood. You may have to use some kind of adhesive filler for this. Epoxy, with filler, for example. On the other hand, if it is a plywood boat with a thin layer of protective glass, or glass on only the outside, then you are probably wrong. In that case you will probably need to scarf in the plywood very carefully. I'm not an expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But the whole idea behind sandwich construction is that the core experiences mostly compression loading, and the skin experiences mostly tension. Of course, this means that you have to do a good job tapering the fiberglass thickness where you meld old glass with new glass. I think I have seen a 12:1 ratio recommended. That is, if the glass is 1/8" thick, you would taper over 1-1/2". --Mac |
I was also thinking that once I put some wood in there (however much is
required), then I may put a long piece of 2x4, or 4x4 that goes the width of the boat. This piece could be glassed to the inner back, and the floor at the back. If that doesn't add strength then I don't know what will. Again, right now, the top part when the motor mounts is solid, and it appears that the rotted area is about the lower foot... "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... One piece is much better. Those joints in the wood have little strength. "Chris" wrote in message ... So replacing wood with new plywood means I can cut out a shape of any size and replace it with a close to equal piece of plywood correct? Just glass the old plywood to the new plywood, right? No concern over how big a piece of plywood is, etc? I could use two pieces of plywood for one hole? etc It appears I've got more rot than I had expected (although the transom feels strong otherwise). I've pulled out about a 1 foot x 1 foot section around the drain plug and am evaluating whether there will be anymore to go too.. Have drilled a bunch of holes in the lower inner part of the transom to see how far it spreads and allow all the wood to dry up before my final decision wrote in message ups.com... It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. |
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:23:57 +0000, Bill McKee wrote:
One piece is much better. Those joints in the wood have little strength. I don't think the joints in the core NEED much strength. I mean, you can use Styrofoam as a core, and that can be broken easily by hand. Also, balsa core is not very strong laterally, but it is an excellent core material (unless it gets wet). With cores, the important thing is that it adhere well to the skin, and that it have good compression strength. Butted plywood with, say, epoxy filler at the joint, should make a good core. But then I am not a mechanical or structural engineer or naval architect, so take my opinion for what it is worth. --Mac "Chris" wrote in message ... So replacing wood with new plywood means I can cut out a shape of any size and replace it with a close to equal piece of plywood correct? Just glass the old plywood to the new plywood, right? No concern over how big a piece of plywood is, etc? I could use two pieces of plywood for one hole? etc It appears I've got more rot than I had expected (although the transom feels strong otherwise). I've pulled out about a 1 foot x 1 foot section around the drain plug and am evaluating whether there will be anymore to go too.. Have drilled a bunch of holes in the lower inner part of the transom to see how far it spreads and allow all the wood to dry up before my final decision wrote in message ups.com... It's too late to do any more than slightly slow the problem by sealing the exposed wooden surfaces of the drain hole. If you like this boat and plan to keep it, you will want to cut the rot out of the transom. Be sure to go a few inches beyond the point where you "think" the rot ends when scarfing in the new piece. You should be able to cut away part of the fiberglass on the outside of the transom and spoon out the punky wood, cut a new piece of the best marine ply you can find, and then glass up the exterior again. This is a great chance to learn from the bad practice of the original builder. Any hole drilled through a wooden member- transom, stringer, etc for the purpose of draining water should have the edges sealed up to prevent water from wicking into the surrounding area and promoting rot. If it were my project, I would cut the drain hole large enough to accept a drain plug with a bronze collar fitting. Seal the edges of the hole with a layer of glass and resin, and then bond the bronze collar into the sealed hole- perhaps using epoxy. One rot gets a foothold, it is relentless. Transom rot on small boats is fairly common, and as most are outboard powered it is double trouble. |
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they
have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve |
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve |
- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve |
"David Flew" wrote in
: I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they
made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
I've taken the advice and am in the process now of removing all hardware off
the back of the boat. Likewise, I took the outboard off (nice and heavy). As the boat top at the rear end will be in the way, I am next going to remove that part. My idea is to cut in at the narrowest point about 3 feet up from the back and then lift the whole rear piece off. (The entire top is the length of the boat, and I don't want to get into taking all of that off... so I can glass the sections where I make the cut after I'm done, its just glass now anyway ). That's the only way I can get to the wood on the transom and clean it out good. I tried laying in the cubby hole at the back (5ft wide x 3ft deep x 2 feet high) and found it would just be too hard to do the job that way, and I'd never get all the wood out. So, wish me luck, this is going to be a big job. I can see how paying someone to do it could cost thousands. Fortunately, I can handle this. "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to
be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat. How does that sound? I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the wood. ?? "Michael Gardner" wrote in message ... In article , "Chris" wrote: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net -- sig goes here |
Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass of
the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin across the joint. "Chris" wrote in message ... I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat. How does that sound? I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the wood. ?? "Michael Gardner" wrote in message ... In article , "Chris" wrote: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net -- sig goes here |
So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in?
"Bill McKee" wrote in message nk.net... Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin across the joint. "Chris" wrote in message ... I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat. How does that sound? I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the wood. ?? "Michael Gardner" wrote in message ... In article , "Chris" wrote: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net -- sig goes here |
I'm no expert, you need to read the stuff by the epoxy people to get expert
advice on boat repairs .... however everything I've read says to use epoxy not polyester for this sort of repair. If you never want to do this job again do it the best way possible now. The difference between using PL construction adhesive and polyester resin compared with using epoxy and appropriate fillers is probably less than $100. Once you get the hang of it ( try some small mixes on scrap wood before you do the full job) it's easy to work with, much more forgiving of fit-up time than pl or polyester, it's stronger, it bonds better, it's more water resistant, and it's proven to do the job. Others may well differ in their ideas on your situation, but it sounds like you are investing lots of hours in a major repair, do it properly and you will only have to do it once. my take on repairs ( assuming everything is clean and a reasonable fit) A) this does the structural part of the repair - test fit everything, clamp it in place as a test run, take it apart - put on the gloves, lay down something to catch the spills, drips, etc ( I'm a messy worker - this is essential for me!) - mix some straight epoxy, paint it on every surface. ( makes sure it will stick) - mix more epoxy, add gluing filler to whatever consistency suits the job, paint/trowel/ pour it on. ( fills the gaps) - fit everything in place, clamp it up, scrape of excess (so you don't have to sand it so much later) ( above in one session) B) This makes it look nice - when it's strong enough to take some loads, remove clamps, remove excess, dribbles, spills etc. Do appropriate prep for next coat ( depends on manufacturer, method, etc. ) - gloves, mix more epoxy , add fairing filler, fill holes and other bits you missed, wait until it cures, sand ./ scrape/ whatever to remove high spots - repeat these steps until you are satisfied with the appearance C) This makes it last - surface prep as per manufacturer's story - paint to protect against UV damage. I've probably opened a can of worms here and managed to upset all the experts. But that's my take on it. David "Chris" wrote in message .. . So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in? "Bill McKee" wrote in message nk.net... Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin across the joint. "Chris" wrote in message ... I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat. How does that sound? I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the wood. ?? "Michael Gardner" wrote in message ... In article , "Chris" wrote: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net -- sig goes here |
Use epoxy resin. Just like they use on a new boat.
"Chris" wrote in message .. . So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in? "Bill McKee" wrote in message nk.net... Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin across the joint. "Chris" wrote in message ... I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat. How does that sound? I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the wood. ?? "Michael Gardner" wrote in message ... In article , "Chris" wrote: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net -- sig goes here |
"Chris" wrote in
: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. I'm not quite sure why after all this great work that you'd go back to the same poor contrction of the original design. Wood is bad, it rots. Construction adhesive is a terrible idea (IMNSHO). As others have suggested, use all epoxy resin and saturate the edges with warmed resin to seal them. You are using marine ply aren't you? If not STOP NOW... regular ply will be rotten again in no time flat. I used regular ply to replace the wood parts in a jon boat transom. I soaked the edges in urethane and then gave it about 5 coats, it's starting to rot in about 2 years. You should still look at the Sea Cast product. It will be less work, fill the area completely and you won't have to test fit and fiddle with the plywood. When you'd be done, you'd have a completely wood free transom, no rot, ever. Engine mounting holes will not be a place for water to leak into the core, nor will the inevitable ladder, speedo, depth sounder, trim tab, and other holes taht get drilled in the transom. Every one of these holes is a potential place for water to get back in and cause wood rot... Lose the wood, really! -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
Marine ply rots just like any other ply. The only difference between ACX
and Marine ply is the Marine has no internal voids. In a small engine powered boat, the voids probably do not matter as to strength. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "Chris" wrote in : Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. I'm not quite sure why after all this great work that you'd go back to the same poor contrction of the original design. Wood is bad, it rots. Construction adhesive is a terrible idea (IMNSHO). As others have suggested, use all epoxy resin and saturate the edges with warmed resin to seal them. You are using marine ply aren't you? If not STOP NOW... regular ply will be rotten again in no time flat. I used regular ply to replace the wood parts in a jon boat transom. I soaked the edges in urethane and then gave it about 5 coats, it's starting to rot in about 2 years. You should still look at the Sea Cast product. It will be less work, fill the area completely and you won't have to test fit and fiddle with the plywood. When you'd be done, you'd have a completely wood free transom, no rot, ever. Engine mounting holes will not be a place for water to leak into the core, nor will the inevitable ladder, speedo, depth sounder, trim tab, and other holes taht get drilled in the transom. Every one of these holes is a potential place for water to get back in and cause wood rot... Lose the wood, really! -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net |
Ok, I'm convinced, and I've just finally found somewhere to buy the epoxy
after going to several stores, including C-Tire, HD, UAP, and 3 marine shops without luck. I've been cruising the net for a while and finally found a place. Btw, the construction stuff I got was PL Premium, which I've read is highly rated for many other parts of a boat, although from what I concluded during all my reading is that for a transom it could very well hold, however it may be a bit elastic thus not being the best. Along with the poundage per square inch which would be less than epoxy. To further that as well, If I wanted to seal the wood completely, then painting an epoxy on would do the trick, while you can't really paint on PL and hope to fill every gap. So I'll epoxy the ________ out of it... "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... Use epoxy resin. Just like they use on a new boat. "Chris" wrote in message .. . So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in? "Bill McKee" wrote in message nk.net... Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin across the joint. "Chris" wrote in message ... I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat. How does that sound? I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the wood. ?? "Michael Gardner" wrote in message ... In article , "Chris" wrote: Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha. I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take the transom apart. http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html "William Andersen" wrote in message news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07... There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty interesting. "Auerbach" wrote in message ... Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat." They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging vessel would keep them busy season after season! "William Andersen" wrote in message news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07... When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and started the project anew. Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to work. "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . "David Flew" wrote in : I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18" of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat. BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes... You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info (just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product and it looked like a great thing). - Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back. - Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved several times over by the time you are done. - you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair ( it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area than it is to fill several more holes. - with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate. - read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers David "Chris" wrote in message ... I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it. Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood. To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole (drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open now). The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds strength. Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it). To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts (centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't covered in glass. I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky there. So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and floor). Now it'll be strong. What do you think? "Steve Weingart" wrote in message .. . If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was going to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority of the transom has still been strong). Cheers, -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve -- Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email) http://www.gulf-stream.net -- sig goes here |
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:22:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote: Marine ply rots just like any other ply. The only difference between ACX and Marine ply is the Marine has no internal voids. In a small engine powered boat, the voids probably do not matter as to strength. I wonder if the Doug Fir used in exterior softwood ply is more durable than the cheapo hardwood used in normal exterior and some marine ply. Ply can be treated though it takes time to dry out, also there are borate pellets that are put into the wood and release preserver if it gets damp. Maybe the OP should take a look at treated green ply for use 'below grade', if it's covered in fibreglass it shouldn't look any different in the end. cheers, Pete. |
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