Fees upset liveaboards
 

FINALLY SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT BOATS. THANKS!

The Port of Everett Marina is situated at the mouth of the Snohomish
River. There is a US Navy base immediately south- you know, one of a
categroy of locations specficially *excused* from environmental
regulations by the Bush administration. Immediately north, where the
marina is going to expand, is an abandoned industrial site
from back in the days when you disposed of toxic chemicals by digging a
hole and dumping them in.

There was a time in Everett, only 20-25 years ago, when the crap the
mills pumped out was so toxic and corrosive that at least one facility
rigged a "steam rinse" in the employee parking lot across the street
from the mill and hooked it to the mill's boiler.
The steam rinse was in response to complaints from workers that the
paint was peeling off their cars. One has to wonder why the workers
weren't more concerned for their lungs.......

If every single liveaboard discharged directly overboard, it wouldn't
begin to move the needle on the pollution meter in that area even a
degree or two.

Everett has done a lot to clean up its environment and its image. It
would be nice to think the last remaining item to address is the
handful of folks who live aboard at the marina without benefit of
holding tanks. But that isn't the case.

As far as the marina fees, they are going through the roof in this
region, and probably elsewhere as well. For everybody, not just the
liveaboards.

Our local marina owners association brought in a professional
consultant who recommended the members follow a very aggressive
program.

1) Forget about keeping moorage rates at a level where your marina is
full. A full marina is a bad thing, and indicates you are
under-utilizing your asset.

2) Immediately begin raising rates. Continue raising rates until you
achieve your goal: ten-percent vacancy.

3) Stop raising rates when that 10% vacancy realized, and check the
bottom line. Empty slips require fewer services so expenses will be
down, and the increased revenue generated by the higher fees calculated
to drive away 10% of the business will increase the monthly net
substantially.

'tis a bitch, but these people are in business to make as much as they
can and as fasst as they can off their investment.

Those POE liveaboards who don't like being told they cannot haul
porta-pottis to the shoreshide facilitites should move to Shilshole in
Seattle. At Shilshole, everybody is *expected* to use the permanent
restrooms, not discouraged. (Some do, most don't). Even so, when it's
35 degrees outside, 300 yards to the restroom, and you're in your
underwear at midnight the odds of many people hiking to the restroom in
the parking lot are-shall we say- "remote".

On 26 May 2005 07:35:10 -0700, wrote:

3) Stop raising rates when that 10% vacancy realized, and check the
bottom line. Empty slips require fewer services so expenses will be
down, and the increased revenue generated by the higher fees calculated
to drive away 10% of the business will increase the monthly net
substantially.

I actually had to sit down and work this out because something didn't
seem right. I made a few calls and received some basic information,
then worked off my services bills as a baseline.

I can't make the numbers work out for some reason unless you jack up
the higher end boat (like the 35-50 foot category) slip/services rates
by more than ten percent - closer to twenty. Even then the bottom line
wasn't effectively affected by the loss of business assuming stable
costs. That was based on a marina with 250 slips and I figured 1/3
20-30 foot, 1/3 30-40 foot and 1/3 40 foot and up - which is about
what my marina has slippage for.

What I suspect you might lose is the lower tier boats (20-30) and
that's where you make most of your money because you can fit more than
one boat per foot (length of pier) rather than the behemoths that take
up more space.

I'd like to see his numbers if you happen to have them - you have my
email addy. I'm only curious because I can't make them work - I must
be missing something.

Later,

Tom

Tom,
Not sure where you are, but here on the left coast many marinas start
moorage rates at 30' minimum, Tie up a 20' boat and pay for 30'.
UD



http://community.webtv.net/capuglyda...inUglyDansJack

On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:56:20 -0700, (UglyDan®©™)
wrote:

Tom,
Not sure where you are, but here on the left coast many marinas start
moorage rates at 30' minimum, Tie up a 20' boat and pay for 30'.

True, but the math still stays the same - the smaller boats are the
money makers because there are more of them.

Later,

Tom

Your math probably isn't off.

One of the biggest marina owners in Seattle is now Joe Diamond, the
same guy who has made $bazillions putting parking lots on empty sites
in the central business district. He is pricing everything up as high
as he can- and probably would be doing so even if the marina
association's advisor had never addressed the meeting.

I'm currently aware of several rates in Seattle that have increased
20-25% this year. People are getting upset and blowing out of Marina X
when the rates shoot through the roof, and move to a vacant slip at
Marina Y. However, even though you are expected to stay at least a year
to get your
security deposit refunded when you leave- the marinas put everybody on
a month to month.
John Q Boater blows out of a place that raises his rates from $10/ft/mo
to $12.50, and scurries off to a new spot across the lake at $10.50.
When the rate across the lake goes up to $13.00- there isn't a lot poor
old John Q can do about it.

I heard a rumor that moorage at Marina Del Rey is something like
$24/ft/mo. A $giesel a month just to park a 40-footer. Ouch. I'd like
to think it won't go that high in the NW, but who knows?

When they first built Shilshole Bay Marina back in the early 60's, the
moorage rate was 35 cents/foot/month. One of the old time brokers on
the lake likes to recall how about a year after Shilshole opened they
raised the rate to 50-cents. He said there were howls of protest, and a
lot of people went back inside the locks to look for moorage at 35-40
cents. I could stand 50-cents a foot. Heck, I'll pay up several years
in advance. :-)

Chuck,
Is that old fart (Diamond) still alive?
I remember when Allen didn't get his way with S Lake Union, So he
teamed up with Diamond and over time bought up just about every piece of
waterfront they could get ahold of around Westlake.
I'm sure with time (cept for Joe:) Allen will turn it into another
beauty like EMP, but just a private marina as originally intended.

UD

On 26 May 2005 20:10:11 -0700, wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

When they first built Shilshole Bay Marina back in the early 60's, the
moorage rate was 35 cents/foot/month. One of the old time brokers on
the lake likes to recall how about a year after Shilshole opened they
raised the rate to 50-cents. He said there were howls of protest, and a
lot of people went back inside the locks to look for moorage at 35-40
cents. I could stand 50-cents a foot. Heck, I'll pay up several years
in advance. :-)

Per month huh? Interesting.

I pay $75 per foot per season, May 1st to November 1st which works out
to $12.5 per foot per month or $400 per month.

I didn't put a lot of time into it, but I couldn't get the figures to
come out no matter how hard I tried - the gains would be marginal in
any case unless you really jacked up the prices which, as you said, is
what is happening.

Hey, trailer boats are looking better and better. :)

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 26 May 2005 20:10:11 -0700, wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

When they first built Shilshole Bay Marina back in the early 60's, the
moorage rate was 35 cents/foot/month. One of the old time brokers on
the lake likes to recall how about a year after Shilshole opened they
raised the rate to 50-cents. He said there were howls of protest, and a
lot of people went back inside the locks to look for moorage at 35-40
cents. I could stand 50-cents a foot. Heck, I'll pay up several years
in advance. :-)

Per month huh? Interesting.

I pay $75 per foot per season, May 1st to November 1st which works out
to $12.5 per foot per month or $400 per month.

I didn't put a lot of time into it, but I couldn't get the figures to
come out no matter how hard I tried - the gains would be marginal in
any case unless you really jacked up the prices which, as you said, is
what is happening.

Hey, trailer boats are looking better and better. :)

Later,

Tom

Around here they charge by the slip regardless of boat size......9 ft wide
runs about 1600 for the summer (with power and water) 1800 for 11 ft wide,
2200 for 16 wide.
Winter storage is by the S.F.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 May 2005 20:10:11 -0700, wrote:

~~ snippage ~~


When they first built Shilshole Bay Marina back in the early 60's, the
moorage rate was 35 cents/foot/month. One of the old time brokers on
the lake likes to recall how about a year after Shilshole opened they
raised the rate to 50-cents. He said there were howls of protest, and a
lot of people went back inside the locks to look for moorage at 35-40
cents. I could stand 50-cents a foot. Heck, I'll pay up several years
in advance. :-)


Per month huh? Interesting.

I pay $75 per foot per season, May 1st to November 1st which works out
to $12.5 per foot per month or $400 per month.

I didn't put a lot of time into it, but I couldn't get the figures to
come out no matter how hard I tried - the gains would be marginal in
any case unless you really jacked up the prices which, as you said, is
what is happening.

Hey, trailer boats are looking better and better. :)

Later,

Tom

Join the club Tom.. my Sandpiper 565 doesn't cost me a cent, sitting in
my driveway this cold, dreary, wet May.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 14:06:50 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 May 2005 20:10:11 -0700, wrote:

~~ snippage ~~


When they first built Shilshole Bay Marina back in the early 60's, the
moorage rate was 35 cents/foot/month. One of the old time brokers on
the lake likes to recall how about a year after Shilshole opened they
raised the rate to 50-cents. He said there were howls of protest, and a
lot of people went back inside the locks to look for moorage at 35-40
cents. I could stand 50-cents a foot. Heck, I'll pay up several years
in advance. :-)


Per month huh? Interesting.

I pay $75 per foot per season, May 1st to November 1st which works out
to $12.5 per foot per month or $400 per month.

I didn't put a lot of time into it, but I couldn't get the figures to
come out no matter how hard I tried - the gains would be marginal in
any case unless you really jacked up the prices which, as you said, is
what is happening.

Hey, trailer boats are looking better and better. :)

Join the club Tom.. my Sandpiper 565 doesn't cost me a cent, sitting in
my driveway this cold, dreary, wet May.

Man, you got that right. It looks like I might get out this weekend -
hopefully.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 May 2005 14:06:50 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 May 2005 20:10:11 -0700, wrote:

~~ snippage ~~


When they first built Shilshole Bay Marina back in the early 60's, the
moorage rate was 35 cents/foot/month. One of the old time brokers on
the lake likes to recall how about a year after Shilshole opened they
raised the rate to 50-cents. He said there were howls of protest, and a
lot of people went back inside the locks to look for moorage at 35-40
cents. I could stand 50-cents a foot. Heck, I'll pay up several years
in advance. :-)


Per month huh? Interesting.

I pay $75 per foot per season, May 1st to November 1st which works out
to $12.5 per foot per month or $400 per month.

I didn't put a lot of time into it, but I couldn't get the figures to
come out no matter how hard I tried - the gains would be marginal in
any case unless you really jacked up the prices which, as you said, is
what is happening.

Hey, trailer boats are looking better and better. :)

Join the club Tom.. my Sandpiper 565 doesn't cost me a cent, sitting in
my driveway this cold, dreary, wet May.

Man, you got that right. It looks like I might get out this weekend -
hopefully.

Later,

Tom

I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway. Makes for a
tacky looking neighborhood. Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.

Bill McKee wrote:



I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway. Makes for a
tacky looking neighborhood. Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.


Sailboats seem to be different. Most people are quite interested in my
baby when they see it. I'll pass your comments along to my provincial
tax assessor. Every year he raises my property value by 8 or 10%

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:



I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway. Makes for
a tacky looking neighborhood. Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an
ordinance prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a
side yard.

Sailboats seem to be different. Most people are quite interested in my
baby when they see it. I'll pass your comments along to my provincial tax
assessor. Every year he raises my property value by 8 or 10%


As Samuel Clemens's stated about land "They are not making more of it.".
Just because the value of the neighborhood increases, does not mean it does
not have tacky houses. And you should have passed a Calif Proposition 13
type law. Can not keep infinitely raising the value of the property for tax
purposes when it is not sold. Prices the fixed income retiree's out of
their homes.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:17:28 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway.

Really - why?

Makes for a tacky looking neighborhood.

No it doesn't.

Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.

Good thing I don't live there then.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:17:28 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway.

Really - why?

Makes for a tacky looking neighborhood.

No it doesn't.

Sure it does. I agree. No cars on blocks or house trailers and boats
stored long term in driveways in my neighborhood either thanks to our
covenenants, by-laws and restrictions.

You agree to these restrictions when purchasing a home here. Don't like
it? Don't move here.

My home is a major investment and I want to preserve the value.


Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.

Agreed.


Good thing I don't live there then.

Different strokes Tom. Don't force your feelings on others.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:17:28 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway.

Really - why?

Makes for a tacky looking neighborhood.

No it doesn't.

Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.

Good thing I don't live there then.

Later,

Tom


You may not be in a neighborhood of 100-150' lots. I guess rednecks with
3-4 cars in the front yard are OK also. ;)

On Sat, 28 May 2005 04:22:41 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:17:28 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway.

Really - why?

Makes for a tacky looking neighborhood.

No it doesn't.

Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.

Good thing I don't live there then.

You may not be in a neighborhood of 100-150' lots. I guess rednecks with
3-4 cars in the front yard are OK also. ;)

The average house in my neighborhood has 300' frontage on four acres
of land attached. My own is a little bigger because I was the
developer of this particular parcel of land.

Also, ain't no rednecks 'round here exceptin' fer me. :)

I understand that in close neighborhoods, junk cars, boats and what
not can be a detractor and devalue property - I agree.

My argument is that in a neighborhood like mine, it's no big deal to
see a properly stored boat/camper/RV in the driveway over winter and
during the summer. It doesn't affect the value of the neighborhood in
any sense as evidenced by the last set of reassessment values.

And you wouldn't believe what I'm assessed for this place. :)

Even in a close neighborhood in CA, I've seen some very nice ski boats
and bass boats on lots no bigger than the space my barn occupies and
it didn't look "trashed" out.

Hey, to each their own as Jim says.

Later,

Tom

I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway. Makes for
a
tacky looking neighborhood. Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.


And we all know how sensible CA is in their lawmaking.

RM wrote:
I hate when people store their boats and RV's in the driveway. Makes for

a

tacky looking neighborhood. Livermore, CA. Years ago passed an ordinance
prohibiting such. Good law. Put it behind the fence! In a side yard.



And we all know how sensible CA is in their lawmaking.


Not just CA. Our new neighbours came down from Ontario. Seems their
old neighbourhood did the same. She questioned me about it when she saw
my 19 foor trailerable mini-cruiser in my driveway. No such by-laws on
my street yet.

You may not be in a neighborhood of 100-150' lots. I guess rednecks
with
3-4 cars in the front yard are OK also. ;)

***********

Only if they're up on blocks, in various stages of disassembly, and
shading a gooey oil slick in the grass below.