Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

Yes, the larger the hp the heavier the torque will be on that aluminum
transom. Smokercraft makes a nice boat, very practical. I had one, 16 footer
with a 40hp Johnson on it, the boat would do about 40 miles per hour. It
also trolled for days without a miss. Very light and easily transported.
I have owned and operated about a dozen outboards and never had a fourstroke
so I cannot help you there. I do know that the new fuel injection boats are
very very good. They do not pollute like they used to, they have that
exhaust stroke figured out. No carbs and usually have a computer in the
works therefore the engine has to start. Injector oil is a pain but part of
the program. With the fourstrokes there a lot more moving parts on the
engine so more opportunity for breakdowns.
Why you excited about the Mercs? I have never owned one myself and I prefer
the Johnsons or Evinrudes myself. This may be a dealer thing though.
What ever you do, at the last second when you are ready to buy the boat, and
the dealer is rubbing his hands in anticipation for that check or debit
card, offer him 30% less and reduce his margins by that much and after he
cries and objects and you walk away, he will phone you at home and of course
chisels that 30% down to somewhere like 10% but you stick behind your guns
and maybe go to 25%. You will be more satisfied and get better value. He
doesn't want to keep inventory that long so he has to make hay while the sun
shines. He will do it. Negotiate.

Smoker Craft makes a good boat though. With a 17 footer, myself I would like
to see a 70hp Evinrude on it, nothing more, not much less. When you get 4
guys on the boat you will notice the 50hp wont be enough but if it is always
only going to be you and a light load, the 70hp would be a nice match. Easy
to maintain, work on, fix.
Depend how much also you use the main engine for trolling. If your not going
to use a kicker, then the smaller horsepower the better. Find a balance or
trade off.








"Bob Askey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

Thanks for the info. I am also getting a 6HP for trolling because I didn't
figure on using a larger motor for trolling.

I did ask about a 4-stroke 75HP and was told it is way to heavy. I really
wanted to go to a 4-stroke because they are more efficient save on gas etc.
Also Oregon is following California with banning 2-stroke in about 5 years
at least that is what I have been told.

Thanks for the info,
Bob

" Tuuk" wrote in message
...
Yes, the larger the hp the heavier the torque will be on that aluminum
transom. Smokercraft makes a nice boat, very practical. I had one, 16
footer
with a 40hp Johnson on it, the boat would do about 40 miles per hour. It
also trolled for days without a miss. Very light and easily transported.
I have owned and operated about a dozen outboards and never had a
fourstroke
so I cannot help you there. I do know that the new fuel injection boats
are
very very good. They do not pollute like they used to, they have that
exhaust stroke figured out. No carbs and usually have a computer in the
works therefore the engine has to start. Injector oil is a pain but part
of
the program. With the fourstrokes there a lot more moving parts on the
engine so more opportunity for breakdowns.
Why you excited about the Mercs? I have never owned one myself and I
prefer
the Johnsons or Evinrudes myself. This may be a dealer thing though.
What ever you do, at the last second when you are ready to buy the boat,
and
the dealer is rubbing his hands in anticipation for that check or debit
card, offer him 30% less and reduce his margins by that much and after he
cries and objects and you walk away, he will phone you at home and of
course
chisels that 30% down to somewhere like 10% but you stick behind your guns
and maybe go to 25%. You will be more satisfied and get better value. He
doesn't want to keep inventory that long so he has to make hay while the
sun
shines. He will do it. Negotiate.

Smoker Craft makes a good boat though. With a 17 footer, myself I would
like
to see a 70hp Evinrude on it, nothing more, not much less. When you get 4
guys on the boat you will notice the 50hp wont be enough but if it is
always
only going to be you and a light load, the 70hp would be a nice match.
Easy
to maintain, work on, fix.
Depend how much also you use the main engine for trolling. If your not
going
to use a kicker, then the smaller horsepower the better. Find a balance or
trade off.








"Bob Askey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the info. I am also getting a 6HP for trolling because I
didn't
figure on using a larger motor for trolling.

I did ask about a 4-stroke 75HP and was told it is way to heavy. I really
wanted to go to a 4-stroke because they are more efficient save on gas
etc.
Also Oregon is following California with banning 2-stroke in about 5 years
at least that is what I have been told.

Thanks for the info,
Bob

" Tuuk" wrote in message
...
Yes, the larger the hp the heavier the torque will be on that aluminum
transom. Smokercraft makes a nice boat, very practical. I had one, 16
footer
with a 40hp Johnson on it, the boat would do about 40 miles per hour. It
also trolled for days without a miss. Very light and easily transported.
I have owned and operated about a dozen outboards and never had a
fourstroke
so I cannot help you there. I do know that the new fuel injection boats
are
very very good. They do not pollute like they used to, they have that
exhaust stroke figured out. No carbs and usually have a computer in the
works therefore the engine has to start. Injector oil is a pain but part
of
the program. With the fourstrokes there a lot more moving parts on the
engine so more opportunity for breakdowns.
Why you excited about the Mercs? I have never owned one myself and I
prefer
the Johnsons or Evinrudes myself. This may be a dealer thing though.
What ever you do, at the last second when you are ready to buy the boat,
and
the dealer is rubbing his hands in anticipation for that check or debit
card, offer him 30% less and reduce his margins by that much and after
he
cries and objects and you walk away, he will phone you at home and of
course
chisels that 30% down to somewhere like 10% but you stick behind your
guns
and maybe go to 25%. You will be more satisfied and get better value. He
doesn't want to keep inventory that long so he has to make hay while the
sun
shines. He will do it. Negotiate.

Smoker Craft makes a good boat though. With a 17 footer, myself I would
like
to see a 70hp Evinrude on it, nothing more, not much less. When you get
4
guys on the boat you will notice the 50hp wont be enough but if it is
always
only going to be you and a light load, the 70hp would be a nice match.
Easy
to maintain, work on, fix.
Depend how much also you use the main engine for trolling. If your not
going
to use a kicker, then the smaller horsepower the better. Find a balance
or
trade off.








"Bob Askey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob





I would look at another dealer. A Bigfoot is for high thrust, not high
speed. Displacement hulls. Bigger prop at low speed. Yamaha calls it a
"High Thrust". sounds like he has one in stock and wants to sell it.
Bill

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

I think that the fuel economy (distance able to travel) would be the same
with the new four stroke and a new EFI 2 stroke. Only difference is injector
oil and crank oil. So same horsepower engines would consume the same amount
of fuel between the fourstroke and 2 stroke. I had an interesting
conversation with the Merc dealer at the boat show, now I know that the
2stroke rates its horsepower at the prop and he claimed that the 4 stroke
doesn't do that, the have considerably less horsepower at the props than
their equivalent horsepower 2stroke. Maybe someone can coment on that.






"Bob" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the info. I am also getting a 6HP for trolling because I
didn't
figure on using a larger motor for trolling.

I did ask about a 4-stroke 75HP and was told it is way to heavy. I really
wanted to go to a 4-stroke because they are more efficient save on gas
etc.
Also Oregon is following California with banning 2-stroke in about 5 years
at least that is what I have been told.

Thanks for the info,
Bob

" Tuuk" wrote in message
...
Yes, the larger the hp the heavier the torque will be on that aluminum
transom. Smokercraft makes a nice boat, very practical. I had one, 16
footer
with a 40hp Johnson on it, the boat would do about 40 miles per hour. It
also trolled for days without a miss. Very light and easily transported.
I have owned and operated about a dozen outboards and never had a
fourstroke
so I cannot help you there. I do know that the new fuel injection boats
are
very very good. They do not pollute like they used to, they have that
exhaust stroke figured out. No carbs and usually have a computer in the
works therefore the engine has to start. Injector oil is a pain but part
of
the program. With the fourstrokes there a lot more moving parts on the
engine so more opportunity for breakdowns.
Why you excited about the Mercs? I have never owned one myself and I
prefer
the Johnsons or Evinrudes myself. This may be a dealer thing though.
What ever you do, at the last second when you are ready to buy the boat,
and
the dealer is rubbing his hands in anticipation for that check or debit
card, offer him 30% less and reduce his margins by that much and after
he
cries and objects and you walk away, he will phone you at home and of
course
chisels that 30% down to somewhere like 10% but you stick behind your
guns
and maybe go to 25%. You will be more satisfied and get better value. He
doesn't want to keep inventory that long so he has to make hay while the
sun
shines. He will do it. Negotiate.

Smoker Craft makes a good boat though. With a 17 footer, myself I would
like
to see a 70hp Evinrude on it, nothing more, not much less. When you get
4
guys on the boat you will notice the 50hp wont be enough but if it is
always
only going to be you and a light load, the 70hp would be a nice match.
Easy
to maintain, work on, fix.
Depend how much also you use the main engine for trolling. If your not
going
to use a kicker, then the smaller horsepower the better. Find a balance
or
trade off.








"Bob Askey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus

they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:50:29 +0000, Bob Askey wrote:

I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob

I'm also "going 4-stroke" with my 12-ft skiff. I'm guessing the outboard
industry will be going where motorbikes went 20 years ago: no more
2-strokes (at least on road bikes).

If the boat is rated for 125hp, the hp (or torque: 4-stroke OB's are about
the same rpm as 2-strokes) won't be a problem. Check the weight of a
2-stroke 125hp motor: any motor weighing less than that should be OK. I'd
guess you'd be fine with 70-80hp 4-stroke. Just checked: A Merc Optimax
(2-stroke) 115hp is 375 lb, the 75hp 4-stroke is 386 lb "dry" (add 10 lb for
oil). I'd say that's close enough!

I'd also question the choice of a "bigfoot", though..

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

Just checked the merc web site. The 125 2 stroke weights in at 348 lbs.
The 90 and the 115 4 stroke both weight 386. Not enough of a weight
difference to worry about. My guess is the dealer has smaller motors and
does not have one of these in stock and wants to sell what he has. I would
highly recommend the 115 4 stroke which is EFI. If you can't afford that
then the 90 4 stroke would be the least engine I would go w/. 4 people in a
17' boat needs plenty of power to get on plane. A 60 or 70 is just not
going to be enough. Does not have enough torque to get the job done.

As for the post about offering 30% less than what the dealer wants is way
out of reality. A dealer does not have $3000 to play with on a $10000 boat.
His profit is more like $1000 which is not a lot when you consider the fact
that a large dealer may sell 100 boats a year. A small dealer is lucky to
sell 50 boats a year. This is why so many dealers have gone out of business
in the last few years. He may be asking $1500 more than his cost but that
is probably about all. He might come down by $500 or so.

--
Tony
my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com



"Bob Askey" wrote in message
m...
I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob

Help Motor and Boat Selection
 

Hi,

Thanks for all the great info. I sent an e-mail to the dealer I am
working with and got an e-mail similar to what some of you have
mentioned. The advise was that the weight of the 4-stroke upgrade
wasn't really all that much more than a 2-stroke.

I called and we talked about the options. It was recommended to me
that the 4-stroke 115 EFI would be the best bet. Dealer told me the
60HP would be adequate but not always. The 115 Merc would be more
than adequate and would perform in most situations. I would have the
extra horse power if needed. You don't have to go full throttle find
a comfortable speed. One other point was that if you have to go full
throttle to feel you are going fast enough then the motor is not
enough horse power. I did have a 16' Lowe with a 50HP with a jet
pump. I liked the boat but always felt it was a bit too slow.

Bob

(Bob Askey) wrote in message om...
I am looking at a new 2004 Smokercraft Stealth 17foot. The boat is
rated for up to a max hp of 125. The dealer package is a 2-stroke
50hp Merc which is not adequate. This boat is fully loaded with two
livewells, consoles, windshield, built in gas tank in floor. So it
will have a fair amount of weight with 4 adults in it. I will mainly
use it locally Williamette, Columbia River, lakes and bays.

I want a Merc 4-stroke for two main reasons, less gas and quiet. Plus
they don't burn oil another added expense and smell. They are telling
me a Merc 60HP Bigfoot would do the job. I am not sure that is enough
HP. Then they tell me that anything larger is too much weight in a
4-stroke that I need to go with a 2-stroke.

At this point I am really not sure what to do. Please help.

Thanks,
Bob