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Grady-White's new "360 Express"
Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a
boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. |
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... Last week, Gene mentioned Grady-White's new 36' Express, which sounded like one hell of a boat. Well, my friendly neighborhood GW dealer has one in stock, sitting up in its yard. Trip Yamaha 250 four cycles. It is an amazing boat, and even more amazing is the fact that the dealer ordered it on spec. He's dropping it into the water this weekend, if the weather is good, and predicts that it will be sold by next Monday. About $380k as equipped from the factory, and a guess of another $40,000 for electronics. I don't know if it is standard, but this one had a bow thruster, the first I've ever seen on a Grady. A great ride for the bucks, and a good buy, when you consider what other big-time 36-foot express style fishing boats are going with twin diesels. Way overpriced, like most GW's. Even at list price you only have $54k in the motors. That leaves $325k for the boat itself. Better be a really nicely layed out and constructed boat. When a diesel in that size goes for the same or a little less, and you are looking at 60-80k for power. But since they have the GW name, they will sell the overpriced unit. |
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net... "Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... Last week, Gene mentioned Grady-White's new 36' Express, which sounded like one hell of a boat. Well, my friendly neighborhood GW dealer has one in stock, sitting up in its yard. Trip Yamaha 250 four cycles. It is an amazing boat, and even more amazing is the fact that the dealer ordered it on spec. He's dropping it into the water this weekend, if the weather is good, and predicts that it will be sold by next Monday. About $380k as equipped from the factory, and a guess of another $40,000 for electronics. I don't know if it is standard, but this one had a bow thruster, the first I've ever seen on a Grady. A great ride for the bucks, and a good buy, when you consider what other big-time 36-foot express style fishing boats are going with twin diesels. Way overpriced, like most GW's. Even at list price you only have $54k in the motors. That leaves $325k for the boat itself. Better be a really nicely layed out and constructed boat. When a diesel in that size goes for the same or a little less, and you are looking at 60-80k for power. But since they have the GW name, they will sell the overpriced unit. I have not seen the boat in question, but as for GWs being overpriced I do not agree. I have been doing a lot of boat shopping and and boat that is significantly cheaper than GW for the same size and power is markedly inferior in quality of hardware, amenities, storage space, and design. You do pay more for a GW than most other boats but you definitely do get something for that $$. If those things are not important to you then the boat will seem overpriced. To others it will seem otherwise. Sort of like comparing a Chevy and a BMW. -- Peter Aitken Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause"
wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... Last week, Gene mentioned Grady-White's new 36' Express, which sounded like one hell of a boat. Well, my friendly neighborhood GW dealer has one in stock, sitting up in its yard. Trip Yamaha 250 four cycles. It is an amazing boat, and even more amazing is the fact that the dealer ordered it on spec. He's dropping it into the water this weekend, if the weather is good, and predicts that it will be sold by next Monday. About $380k as equipped from the factory, and a guess of another $40,000 for electronics. I don't know if it is standard, but this one had a bow thruster, the first I've ever seen on a Grady. A great ride for the bucks, and a good buy, when you consider what other big-time 36-foot express style fishing boats are going with twin diesels. I live on a canal that has some shallow water to run through to the Gulf (3 1/2 feet draft max on *low* tide). These outboard-powered boats are an attractive option, but I'd never buy one with triple engines. The maintance costs alone on those four-strokes would cost almost $3000/yr. And the fuel costs would be insane. They wouldn't get the life that a diesel would get, so I'd be replacing them in 5 to 7 years...to the tune of another $50-60k. You might say "hey, people who can afford $400k for a boat, don't have to worry about the maintenance and fuel". Bunk. When it's time for me to move up, I'll be buying an outboard-powered boat (unless a jet drive Hinckley pops up on the market for cheap), but it will have two outboards...not three. By then, 300+hp four-strokes should be commonplace. |
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. No diesel running straight prop shafts out the bottom of the boat will come close to the top speed of an outboard-powered boat. Too much drag. |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:33:42 -0400, "Harry.Krause"
wrote: John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! Have you looked at the other side of Solomons? Across the bridge? Towards Point Lookout? I drove out to Point Lookout last year, just to see what the heck it looked like from the shore. I saw some really nice wooded neighborhoods with home prices less than what was being sought in Calvert County. You have to get some few miles past the NAS, though. You would not believe the prices along the Pax River. They're worse than the prices for nice houses with land along the ICW in NE Florida. And the fishing isn't nearly as good. Actually I was thinking more of the Lexington Park area, or north (Hollywood or California). There are some developments going in down there with some nice looking places (at least on the internet) in the $300,000 range. If the wife and I sell this place and get something like that, I'd be able to afford the GW I like! And, I'd be close to all that good fishing in the lower part of the bay! The big disadvantage would be the distance from the kids. The Naval Station has nice facilities, which is also a plus. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... I'd like a top end in the low-mid 40's with the Parker and a 300 hp four cycle. On a good day, I can just almost hit 40 mph. What I really want is to raise my "comfy" engine cruise to just a hair over 30 mph. Right now, I'm a tad under that at an engine speed that sounds right to me. You just described my boat to a tee. 25' Whaler Outrage Cuddy with a 250hp Suzuki. Low-end grunt is plenty however. That 16" prop and low gear-ratio jumps the boat on plane as quickly as the carbed 2-stroke Yamaha it replaced...but with an 80% improvement in the fuel economy. |
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! Have you looked at the other side of Solomons? Across the bridge? Towards Point Lookout? I drove out to Point Lookout last year, just to see what the heck it looked like from the shore. I saw some really nice wooded neighborhoods with home prices less than what was being sought in Calvert County. You have to get some few miles past the NAS, though. You would not believe the prices along the Pax River. They're worse than the prices for nice houses with land along the ICW in NE Florida. And the fishing isn't nearly as good. One problem with property, on the waterfront, in St. Mary's is that if there is an existing structure you can't tear it down and build one with a bigger foot print. This is prevent the McMansions from popping up along the waterfront. |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause"
wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. He left out the faster top end and shallower draft offered by outboards. |
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. He left out the faster top end and shallower draft offered by outboards. To take it a step farther, I wouldn't own a straight inboard that didn't have a substantial keel structure to protect the running gear. Those fixed props and rudders hanging down there unprotected are a bit scary to a guy like me, who frequently finds himself in the shallows. Agreed. |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 17:42:09 -0400, "Harry.Krause"
wrote: John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:33:42 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! Have you looked at the other side of Solomons? Across the bridge? Towards Point Lookout? I drove out to Point Lookout last year, just to see what the heck it looked like from the shore. I saw some really nice wooded neighborhoods with home prices less than what was being sought in Calvert County. You have to get some few miles past the NAS, though. You would not believe the prices along the Pax River. They're worse than the prices for nice houses with land along the ICW in NE Florida. And the fishing isn't nearly as good. Actually I was thinking more of the Lexington Park area, or north (Hollywood or California). There are some developments going in down there with some nice looking places (at least on the internet) in the $300,000 range. If the wife and I sell this place and get something like that, I'd be able to afford the GW I like! And, I'd be close to all that good fishing in the lower part of the bay! The big disadvantage would be the distance from the kids. The Naval Station has nice facilities, which is also a plus. Well, Lexington Park is too close to the naval base for my taste (noise and traffic), and the little area of California right under the bridge is ok, EXCEPT that it is right under the bridge. That's why I was thinking closer to Point Lookout. The shopping is OK in Lex Park, but there aren't too many decent restaurants, if you like variety of food. My wife likes to shop at the Target there. If you head in the other direction once you get over the bridge, towards Hughesville, there are some reasonably price houses, and some are very close to the Pax River. The Boatel California, by the way, seems to be a decent operation. I checked it out last year. I don't remember what it charged. Probably similar to what you are paying now. The fishing is much, much better in that area -bay and river - than what you have up near Deale. It's a haul from Solomons to the Beltway, no doubt about it. We're not down nearly that far. I take a commuter bus from our house to 17th and K, and it takes about 70 minutes in rush hour. The Boatel California, for the boatel, is actually about $400 a year cheaper than I'm paying now. The problem with Point Lookout (or closer to it) is just that it increases the driving distance for the kids. One is in Richmond, and the other is in Bealeton. But maybe I'm just worrying too much about the kids. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 18:26:34 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! Have you looked at the other side of Solomons? Across the bridge? Towards Point Lookout? I drove out to Point Lookout last year, just to see what the heck it looked like from the shore. I saw some really nice wooded neighborhoods with home prices less than what was being sought in Calvert County. You have to get some few miles past the NAS, though. You would not believe the prices along the Pax River. They're worse than the prices for nice houses with land along the ICW in NE Florida. And the fishing isn't nearly as good. One problem with property, on the waterfront, in St. Mary's is that if there is an existing structure you can't tear it down and build one with a bigger foot print. This is prevent the McMansions from popping up along the waterfront. I'm not all that worried about waterfront property. It's a little more than I'd want to spend anyway. I'd have to be so far up the Pax that I'd never get to the bay. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 May 2005 18:26:34 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote: "Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! Have you looked at the other side of Solomons? Across the bridge? Towards Point Lookout? I drove out to Point Lookout last year, just to see what the heck it looked like from the shore. I saw some really nice wooded neighborhoods with home prices less than what was being sought in Calvert County. You have to get some few miles past the NAS, though. You would not believe the prices along the Pax River. They're worse than the prices for nice houses with land along the ICW in NE Florida. And the fishing isn't nearly as good. One problem with property, on the waterfront, in St. Mary's is that if there is an existing structure you can't tear it down and build one with a bigger foot print. This is prevent the McMansions from popping up along the waterfront. I'm not all that worried about waterfront property. It's a little more than I'd want to spend anyway. I'd have to be so far up the Pax that I'd never get to the bay. The property I covet is owned by my aunt and uncle. It has 180' on the Potomac, 8 miles from the bay. There is a dock with boat lift and sand beach. The house was originally built with cinderblock and was expanded in the mid '70's and built by the local Amish. I have offered him what he paid for it many times but he just laughs. |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 20:36:31 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 16 May 2005 18:26:34 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote: "Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:48:00 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: Your forgetting a few things. That is a hell of a lot of money for a boat with outboards. I was at the NY boat show where they had one. Their were lots of people that looked at the price tag and commented "they can't be serious". And don't think for a minute that boat is going to hold it's value. Large outboard powered boats drop fast when the engines start getting hours on them. A thousand to fifteen hundred hours on outboards is close to, if not the, end of the road, but a diesel powered boat, their just getting started. By the time you equip that boat your not that far away from a "real" boat price. Second, that boat is not going to ride like an inboard powered boat. When the sea's come up, that throttle is going back. And third, their's just so much space lost to the outboards as compared to an inboard powered boat. Try fighting a large, uncooperative fish with those outboards in the way. Do yourself a favor, wake up, that boat is a bad idea that you'll regret for a long time. 1. I am not planning on buying one. 2. Boats generally don't hold their value. Gradys do a bit better than most, though 36' is new territory for the maker. 3. The old adage about diesels just getting "broken in" at 2000 hours may still be true for the high-displacement, slow turning, naturally aspirated, relatively low output diesels of the past, but much less so for most of the modern diesels going into boats today. You'd have to have two 500 hp diesels to equal the top and cruise speed performance of these three outboards because of the extra weight of the diesels. And those two big diesels are going to cost two and a half times as much as these outboards. 3. With engines and fuel, this GW is going to top 16,000 pounds, I would guess. More than enough weight for her length, and more than enough to take on the ocean as well as other boats in her class. I am sure the fuel tanks are forward. 4. The outboards won't be in the way of fish fighting, unless the fish is straight down from the transom. If that happens, the captain can spin the boat so the angler can fight the fish. And since very few sportsmen these days bring their large sportfish aboard, tag and release can be handled off the gunwales, as on an inboard boat. Look, I like inboards myself, but GW is willing to gamble on the market for its new boat. Based on the several 330s I have seen around, I'd bet the company sells the few it plans to make each year. Oh...forgot. With outboards, no diesel smell, no diesel puking. Nice post, Harry. Informative and not in any way political or full of name-calling. I would love to have the GW 228. To me it's got just the right amount of room for three people to fish and has all the amenities needed for a nice day with wife and grandkids. Plus it doesn't cost as much as a nice house in Solomon's! Have you looked at the other side of Solomons? Across the bridge? Towards Point Lookout? I drove out to Point Lookout last year, just to see what the heck it looked like from the shore. I saw some really nice wooded neighborhoods with home prices less than what was being sought in Calvert County. You have to get some few miles past the NAS, though. You would not believe the prices along the Pax River. They're worse than the prices for nice houses with land along the ICW in NE Florida. And the fishing isn't nearly as good. One problem with property, on the waterfront, in St. Mary's is that if there is an existing structure you can't tear it down and build one with a bigger foot print. This is prevent the McMansions from popping up along the waterfront. I'm not all that worried about waterfront property. It's a little more than I'd want to spend anyway. I'd have to be so far up the Pax that I'd never get to the bay. The property I covet is owned by my aunt and uncle. It has 180' on the Potomac, 8 miles from the bay. There is a dock with boat lift and sand beach. The house was originally built with cinderblock and was expanded in the mid '70's and built by the local Amish. I have offered him what he paid for it many times but he just laughs. Whereabouts do you live, Bert? (It seems like I've asked you this before, is it Richmond?) -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"John H" wrote in message ... The property I covet is owned by my aunt and uncle. It has 180' on the Potomac, 8 miles from the bay. There is a dock with boat lift and sand beach. The house was originally built with cinderblock and was expanded in the mid '70's and built by the local Amish. I have offered him what he paid for it many times but he just laughs. Whereabouts do you live, Bert? (It seems like I've asked you this before, is it Richmond?) Gaithersburg. |
On your point number two, check the resale on their twin engine powered
boats 25 feet and larger after ten years, their a hard sell. The cost of repower makes them hard to justify. On number three, with the exception of very high Hp to weight engines you can still expect to get high hours out of just about all diesels today. Look at the extended warrenty periods, five years is not uncommon. How long can you expect them to back an outboard? And outboards have had very checkered past when pushing heavy boats, if your running in heavy seas frequently, at less say 4000 RPM, those engines are hurting themselves. On your second number three, much of the desirable sea keeping ability of an inboard is derived from that shaft angle that you point out. That tends to keep the hull in the water, as you flatten that angle out they start comming out of the water at the top of waves. This is one of the reasons that outboards are fast on flat days and very slow on the not so nice ones. You see the outboard boats, some of them good size, lined up like a mother duck with her ducklings behind bigger boats, they just can't run in a good sea without beating you up. This boat will be the same, your just paying a lot more for the beating. If you think the outboards won't be a problem you've never fought a big fish. A boat like this will be used for large game fish like Tuna and billfish. Tuna are straight up and down fighters, this is even more so with Bluefins. With billfish, the real fun starts when they get near the boat, and you have to be able to change positions fast, outboards get in the way. As far as tag and release, most anglers are using larger tackle to "land" fish they intend to release in good condition. Light tackle tends to lower the chances of the fish being released in good shape, they just don't survive as often. The only problem with the larger tackle, the fish tend to come to the boat very green, making them even more difficult to handle boat side. The engines get in the way even more so on a green fish fighting for it's life. Can it be done, yes, but for almost the same money you can get a better boat with more fishing room, easier to fish from, better ride, better resale, burn less fuel and be faster on those nasty days. As far as puking, it wouldn't be fishing if someone isn't hanging over the side at some point in the day Half the fun is trying to figure out early on who it'll be. |
On Tue, 17 May 2005 12:47:21 -0400, "Harry.Krause"
wrote: Capt John wrote: On your point number two, check the resale on their twin engine powered boats 25 feet and larger after ten years, their a hard sell. The cost of repower makes them hard to justify. On number three, with the exception of very high Hp to weight engines you can still expect to get high hours out of just about all diesels today. Look at the extended warrenty periods, five years is not uncommon. How long can you expect them to back an outboard? And outboards have had very checkered past when pushing heavy boats, if your running in heavy seas frequently, at less say 4000 RPM, those engines are hurting themselves. On your second number three, much of the desirable sea keeping ability of an inboard is derived from that shaft angle that you point out. That tends to keep the hull in the water, as you flatten that angle out they start comming out of the water at the top of waves. This is one of the reasons that outboards are fast on flat days and very slow on the not so nice ones. You see the outboard boats, some of them good size, lined up like a mother duck with her ducklings behind bigger boats, they just can't run in a good sea without beating you up. This boat will be the same, your just paying a lot more for the beating. If you think the outboards won't be a problem you've never fought a big fish. A boat like this will be used for large game fish like Tuna and billfish. Tuna are straight up and down fighters, this is even more so with Bluefins. With billfish, the real fun starts when they get near the boat, and you have to be able to change positions fast, outboards get in the way. As far as tag and release, most anglers are using larger tackle to "land" fish they intend to release in good condition. Light tackle tends to lower the chances of the fish being released in good shape, they just don't survive as often. The only problem with the larger tackle, the fish tend to come to the boat very green, making them even more difficult to handle boat side. The engines get in the way even more so on a green fish fighting for it's life. Can it be done, yes, but for almost the same money you can get a better boat with more fishing room, easier to fish from, better ride, better resale, burn less fuel and be faster on those nasty days. As far as puking, it wouldn't be fishing if someone isn't hanging over the side at some point in the day Half the fun is trying to figure out early on who it'll be. Whatever floats your boats. I've been fishing for large and small species for 50 years, on outboards, inboards, I/O's, rowboats, canoes, kayaks and inflatables. I adapt my techniques to accommodate the boat I am on, and rarely run into problems because of the type of drive it has. Once when fishing for big species, we caught something, felt like a large shark, that went under the boat and did its best to stay there, until it used the inboard props or rudders to saw through the line. On an outboard boat, I would have raised the lower units completely out of the water. Sorry, I really don't see outboards as a problem in fishing. They aren't a problem - never have been. Later, Tom |
"Peter Aitken" wrote in message . com... "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "Harry.Krause" wrote in message ... Last week, Gene mentioned Grady-White's new 36' Express, which sounded like one hell of a boat. Well, my friendly neighborhood GW dealer has one in stock, sitting up in its yard. Trip Yamaha 250 four cycles. It is an amazing boat, and even more amazing is the fact that the dealer ordered it on spec. He's dropping it into the water this weekend, if the weather is good, and predicts that it will be sold by next Monday. About $380k as equipped from the factory, and a guess of another $40,000 for electronics. I don't know if it is standard, but this one had a bow thruster, the first I've ever seen on a Grady. A great ride for the bucks, and a good buy, when you consider what other big-time 36-foot express style fishing boats are going with twin diesels. Way overpriced, like most GW's. Even at list price you only have $54k in the motors. That leaves $325k for the boat itself. Better be a really nicely layed out and constructed boat. When a diesel in that size goes for the same or a little less, and you are looking at 60-80k for power. But since they have the GW name, they will sell the overpriced unit. I have not seen the boat in question, but as for GWs being overpriced I do not agree. I have been doing a lot of boat shopping and and boat that is significantly cheaper than GW for the same size and power is markedly inferior in quality of hardware, amenities, storage space, and design. You do pay more for a GW than most other boats but you definitely do get something for that $$. If those things are not important to you then the boat will seem overpriced. To others it will seem otherwise. Sort of like comparing a Chevy and a BMW. -- Peter Aitken Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm No like comparing a diesel sportsfisher to an outboard. There are some really nice, extremely good fit and finish boats out there. And GW's are going on name for an extra 50-100k. The 360 Express hull is not worth 325k. |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Tue, 17 May 2005 12:47:21 -0400, "Harry.Krause" wrote: Capt John wrote: On your point number two, check the resale on their twin engine powered boats 25 feet and larger after ten years, their a hard sell. The cost of repower makes them hard to justify. On number three, with the exception of very high Hp to weight engines you can still expect to get high hours out of just about all diesels today. Look at the extended warrenty periods, five years is not uncommon. How long can you expect them to back an outboard? And outboards have had very checkered past when pushing heavy boats, if your running in heavy seas frequently, at less say 4000 RPM, those engines are hurting themselves. On your second number three, much of the desirable sea keeping ability of an inboard is derived from that shaft angle that you point out. That tends to keep the hull in the water, as you flatten that angle out they start comming out of the water at the top of waves. This is one of the reasons that outboards are fast on flat days and very slow on the not so nice ones. You see the outboard boats, some of them good size, lined up like a mother duck with her ducklings behind bigger boats, they just can't run in a good sea without beating you up. This boat will be the same, your just paying a lot more for the beating. If you think the outboards won't be a problem you've never fought a big fish. A boat like this will be used for large game fish like Tuna and billfish. Tuna are straight up and down fighters, this is even more so with Bluefins. With billfish, the real fun starts when they get near the boat, and you have to be able to change positions fast, outboards get in the way. As far as tag and release, most anglers are using larger tackle to "land" fish they intend to release in good condition. Light tackle tends to lower the chances of the fish being released in good shape, they just don't survive as often. The only problem with the larger tackle, the fish tend to come to the boat very green, making them even more difficult to handle boat side. The engines get in the way even more so on a green fish fighting for it's life. Can it be done, yes, but for almost the same money you can get a better boat with more fishing room, easier to fish from, better ride, better resale, burn less fuel and be faster on those nasty days. As far as puking, it wouldn't be fishing if someone isn't hanging over the side at some point in the day Half the fun is trying to figure out early on who it'll be. Whatever floats your boats. I've been fishing for large and small species for 50 years, on outboards, inboards, I/O's, rowboats, canoes, kayaks and inflatables. I adapt my techniques to accommodate the boat I am on, and rarely run into problems because of the type of drive it has. Once when fishing for big species, we caught something, felt like a large shark, that went under the boat and did its best to stay there, until it used the inboard props or rudders to saw through the line. On an outboard boat, I would have raised the lower units completely out of the water. Sorry, I really don't see outboards as a problem in fishing. They aren't a problem - never have been. Later, Any engine configuration has its plusses and minuses. One thing that turned us away from inboard diesels is the noise. 4-stroke outboards are so blessedly quiet and make for a much more enjoyable day of fishing or cruising. -- Peter Aitken |
On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:01:41 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ Any engine configuration has its plusses and minuses. One thing that turned us away from inboard diesels is the noise. 4-stroke outboards are so blessedly quiet and make for a much more enjoyable day of fishing or cruising. The E-TEC engine I have on the Contender are even quieter. I wouldn't have thought it possible for a two stroke, but they are. A nice soft steady purr. :) Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:01:41 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ Any engine configuration has its plusses and minuses. One thing that turned us away from inboard diesels is the noise. 4-stroke outboards are so blessedly quiet and make for a much more enjoyable day of fishing or cruising. The E-TEC engine I have on the Contender are even quieter. I wouldn't have thought it possible for a two stroke, but they are. A nice soft steady purr. :) Later, Tom\\ Interesting! Technology marches onward. -- Peter Aitken |
Tom said:
The E-Tec engines I have on the Contender are even quieter. snip .................................................. ............. Tom, Do you have any hours on them E-Tec's yet ? I'm wondering just how pleased you are with them.. Any pro's or con's yet ? I've heard that the required E-Tec Oil is quite pricey, but haven't heard anything else negative on these engines yet. Haven't seen any of them in my area yet. Joe in SW FL |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:11:07 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote: Any take on reliability? I have heard some pretty nasty comments about Evinrude reliability, with Yamaha considered vastly superior. Yamaha's are good engines, but vastly superior is a stretch. The reason that they are so "popular" is that they are making sweetheart deals with boat builders and forcing choices towards Yamaha. Evinrude did have several problems with FICHT technology in the midrange engines and it was the ruin of OMC - drove the company into bankruptcy in fact. However, in engines 175 hp and above, the problems were non-existant. Most of the problems surrounded the 150 hp engines and the failures weren't as catastrophic as some would claim. So the "myth" is that Evinrude FICHT is unreliable. In fact, they aren't unreliable at all. Talk to people who own them and you hear a completely different story. I had three of them, one 200 which I still own and two 225s. I had a problem that most people don't ordinarily see with the 200. I had a stator failure which cascaded into the EMM. Bombardier stepped up to the plate even though this was an OMC engine and did a complete replacement of engine electronics along with a new wiring harness. I might add that the 200 was a demo engine and didn't have all the upgrades installed at the time I purchased it and Bombardier took care of that at the same time. I have no complaints about FICHT or Bombardier. The Contender I sold has two 225s and is run almost daily by a commercial/charter operation. When I sold it I had almost 850 hours on each engine and if I were guessing, they are probably up into the 1,200 hour mark now. The last time I spoke to the owner which was about a week or so ago, he was happy and pleased with his purchase. At my marina, Yamaha isn't considered "superior" by any stretch of the imagination. Parts can also be problematic and it's my understanding that the situation hasn't improved any. As I said earlier, E-TEC is the technology of the future and has it all over four stroke tech. I'm convinced and as I said, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. :) Thanks for asking. Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:11:07 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: Any take on reliability? I have heard some pretty nasty comments about Evinrude reliability, with Yamaha considered vastly superior. Yamaha's are good engines, but vastly superior is a stretch. The reason that they are so "popular" is that they are making sweetheart deals with boat builders and forcing choices towards Yamaha. Evinrude did have several problems with FICHT technology in the midrange engines and it was the ruin of OMC - drove the company into bankruptcy in fact. However, in engines 175 hp and above, the problems were non-existant. Most of the problems surrounded the 150 hp engines and the failures weren't as catastrophic as some would claim. So the "myth" is that Evinrude FICHT is unreliable. In fact, they aren't unreliable at all. Talk to people who own them and you hear a completely different story. I had three of them, one 200 which I still own and two 225s. I had a problem that most people don't ordinarily see with the 200. I had a stator failure which cascaded into the EMM. Bombardier stepped up to the plate even though this was an OMC engine and did a complete replacement of engine electronics along with a new wiring harness. I might add that the 200 was a demo engine and didn't have all the upgrades installed at the time I purchased it and Bombardier took care of that at the same time. I have no complaints about FICHT or Bombardier. The Contender I sold has two 225s and is run almost daily by a commercial/charter operation. When I sold it I had almost 850 hours on each engine and if I were guessing, they are probably up into the 1,200 hour mark now. The last time I spoke to the owner which was about a week or so ago, he was happy and pleased with his purchase. At my marina, Yamaha isn't considered "superior" by any stretch of the imagination. Parts can also be problematic and it's my understanding that the situation hasn't improved any. As I said earlier, E-TEC is the technology of the future and has it all over four stroke tech. I'm convinced and as I said, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. :) Thanks for asking. Later, Tom Am I right that E-TEC is available only up to 90HP? The technology does look compelling (I looked at the Evinrude web site) and the lack of cams, chains, etc. can only improve reliability. In any event, the dealers for both boats we are considering are definitely Yamaha shops so we have some limitations because of warranty and service considerations. -- Peter Aitken |
On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:23:33 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote: Am I right that E-TEC is available only up to 90HP? The technology does look compelling (I looked at the Evinrude web site) and the lack of cams, chains, etc. can only improve reliability. In any event, the dealers for both boats we are considering are definitely Yamaha shops so we have some limitations because of warranty and service considerations. No - E-TEC runs up to 250 hp in both fresh and sal****er versions. If you are limited to Yamaha, then I would recommend maxing out the boat with HPDI series Yamaha vs the four stroke. Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:23:33 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: Am I right that E-TEC is available only up to 90HP? The technology does look compelling (I looked at the Evinrude web site) and the lack of cams, chains, etc. can only improve reliability. In any event, the dealers for both boats we are considering are definitely Yamaha shops so we have some limitations because of warranty and service considerations. No - E-TEC runs up to 250 hp in both fresh and sal****er versions. If you are limited to Yamaha, then I would recommend maxing out the boat with HPDI series Yamaha vs the four stroke. Later, Tom Why do you recommend that? -- Peter Aitken |
On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:44:44 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:23:33 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: Am I right that E-TEC is available only up to 90HP? The technology does look compelling (I looked at the Evinrude web site) and the lack of cams, chains, etc. can only improve reliability. In any event, the dealers for both boats we are considering are definitely Yamaha shops so we have some limitations because of warranty and service considerations. No - E-TEC runs up to 250 hp in both fresh and sal****er versions. If you are limited to Yamaha, then I would recommend maxing out the boat with HPDI series Yamaha vs the four stroke. Why do you recommend that? 1 - Because I prefer two stroke tech to four stroke. 2 - Lighter, more efficient, quicker acceleration. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, two strokes are more economical to run. 3 - Less maintenance. To be fair: 1 - Four stroke tech is a proven marine engine technology.. 2 - Four strokes will be quieter than the HPDI (at least in terms of Yamaha). 3 - I believe the Yamaha four stroke engines are probably a little cleaner burning than their HPDI. At the risk of sounding like a yahoo, I believe the only reason four stroke tech made such quick acceptance is that everybody owns a four stroke engine and understands how they work. Not everybody understands how a two cycle engine works - it's counter intuitive if you will. Also, all those Kawasaki/Yamaha/Bultaco motorcycles in the late sixties with the choking blue smoke didn't make it any easier. :) Go with what you are comfortable with - I'm not promoting anything other than my opinion and we all know what opinions are worth. Good luck. Tom Later, Tom ----------- "Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt..." Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653 |
Tom,
I have a stupid question, being new to this and learning a lot, on 2 stroke motors you have to mix oil in with the gas, on the new motors do you mix it right into the gas tank and how do you figure out how much to use ? Thanks Ed "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:23:33 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: Am I right that E-TEC is available only up to 90HP? The technology does look compelling (I looked at the Evinrude web site) and the lack of cams, chains, etc. can only improve reliability. In any event, the dealers for both boats we are considering are definitely Yamaha shops so we have some limitations because of warranty and service considerations. No - E-TEC runs up to 250 hp in both fresh and sal****er versions. If you are limited to Yamaha, then I would recommend maxing out the boat with HPDI series Yamaha vs the four stroke. Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:44:44 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:23:33 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: Am I right that E-TEC is available only up to 90HP? The technology does look compelling (I looked at the Evinrude web site) and the lack of cams, chains, etc. can only improve reliability. In any event, the dealers for both boats we are considering are definitely Yamaha shops so we have some limitations because of warranty and service considerations. No - E-TEC runs up to 250 hp in both fresh and sal****er versions. If you are limited to Yamaha, then I would recommend maxing out the boat with HPDI series Yamaha vs the four stroke. Why do you recommend that? 1 - Because I prefer two stroke tech to four stroke. 2 - Lighter Insignificant. E-Tec 250: 530lb Suzuki 250: 580 lb more efficient, Based on what? Fuel efficiency of the Suzuki is as good or better than the E-tec quicker acceleration. Than most 4-strokes, yes. But the 16" prop and 2.29:1 gear ratio in the Suzuki will pop a boat on plane as fast as the E-tec. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, two strokes are more economical to run. Nope. Especially when you add in the cost of the oil. Over 300 hours of use, assuming a burn rate of 12gph, and an average oil burn ratio of 100:1, you'll use 36 gallons of that liquid gold stuff Bombardier sells (they call it oil). At $40/gallon, that's $1440 in additional operating cost. The 20 hour service on my Suzuki costs $250. The 100 hour costs $250. The 200 hour costs $500. The 300 hour costs $250 again. That's $1250. If you do it yourself (or take it to a dealer that isn't as big a rip-off as my dealer), that cost is 1/3 to 1/2 as much. What's the 300 hour service cost on an E-tec? Because you have to add that to the $1440 in oil burn costs. Anyway you slice it, the 4-stroke is cheaper to run. 3 - Less maintenance. Yes. And this is the only reason I can see for owning an E-tec. |
On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:19:23 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
Yes. And this is the only reason I can see for owning an E-tec. You live in your world, I'll live in mine. Later, Tom |
On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:38:43 -0700, "ed"
wrote: Tom, I have a stupid question, being new to this and learning a lot, on 2 stroke motors you have to mix oil in with the gas, on the new motors do you mix it right into the gas tank and how do you figure out how much to use ? As to the use question, you mix it to a ratio of 50 or 100:1 depending on the engine. Modern two strokes use Variable Ratio Oiling or direct injection/mixing depending on the type of fuel system. No mixing needed. Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:19:23 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Yes. And this is the only reason I can see for owning an E-tec. You live in your world, I'll live in mine. I do like your *boat* more though. |
On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:12:05 -0400, "NOYB" wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:19:23 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Yes. And this is the only reason I can see for owning an E-tec. You live in your world, I'll live in mine. I do like your *boat* more though. Which one? :) They have finished up the bottom paint (I used a gray barrier and white bottom - matching the paint/hull was a whole 'nother story). There is just some finish work on the console which should be done tomorrow and it's in the water Saturday. About freakin' time. :) Later, Tom |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:12:05 -0400, "NOYB" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:19:23 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Yes. And this is the only reason I can see for owning an E-tec. You live in your world, I'll live in mine. I do like your *boat* more though. Which one? :) Hint: I don't like sal****er-wannabe boats. |
On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:25:45 -0400, "NOYB" wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:12:05 -0400, "NOYB" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:19:23 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Yes. And this is the only reason I can see for owning an E-tec. You live in your world, I'll live in mine. I do like your *boat* more though. Which one? :) Hint: I don't like sal****er-wannabe boats. Ah - I take it you are disparaging my Ranger? :) Later, Tom |
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