On 12 May 2005 10:45:40 -0700, Bill Tuthill wrote:

k.pearson wrote:

Greg Barton has a discussion on the Epic Kayak web page that does a
good job of putting bend shaft paddles in perspective. There are
places whene they offer some advantages, There are disadvantages that
most sea kayakers find out-weigh those advantanges.

Could you give us the URL please? I couldn't find it using Google,
either under "bent" or "bend" shaft.

Don't whitewater kayakers find that bent shaft paddles give them
an advantage in rolling? Think so.

Bill

This is the URL for the short article that Greg wrote in the Epic
Kayaks Oct 2004 newsletter.

http://www.epickayaks.com/newsletter...ctober2004.htm

I've always been one to follow the lead of the top competive athletes
when it comes to new equipment. If bent shaft was really beneficial
in sea kayaks, I think we'd be seeing them in racing use. I've tried
one, but Greg's comment about needing to space it exactly for each
paddler is right on. I needed about a 1/2 inch narrowerd spacing, and
it felt awkward.

Karl

On 12-May-2005, k.pearson wrote:

I've always been one to follow the lead of the top competive athletes
when it comes to new equipment.

Given that competitive athletes can be driven by things like superstition
and imitation rather than intelligence or science, following them is
something that has to be done with care.

If bent shaft was really beneficial
in sea kayaks, I think we'd be seeing them in racing use.

Racing and sea kayaking are two different sports. I don't know that
a feature that's good for one is necessarily good for the other.

Mike

On Fri, 13 May 2005 05:48:06 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:


On 12-May-2005, k.pearson wrote:

I've always been one to follow the lead of the top competive athletes
when it comes to new equipment.

Given that competitive athletes can be driven by things like superstition
and imitation rather than intelligence or science, following them is
something that has to be done with care.

If bent shaft was really beneficial
in sea kayaks, I think we'd be seeing them in racing use.

Racing and sea kayaking are two different sports. I don't know that
a feature that's good for one is necessarily good for the other.

Mike

Both true. However, what I look for is those things that cause the
least harm. Top athletes spent a lot more time doing a lot harder
paddling than I do. They are also willing to try anything to give
them an edge. So - I look at what's being used by most of the
winners and how they are using it. Good technique is one of the best
things you can learn from racers. Dead quiet catches, loose grip, use
of the body more than the arms, posture, an all that.

After trying a bent shaft I found that it has limits under some
conditions that make it less desirable than a straight shaft overall.

Karl

k.pearson wrote:

This is the URL for the short article that Greg wrote in the Epic
Kayaks Oct 2004 newsletter.

http://www.epickayaks.com/newsletter...ctober2004.htm

Thanks Karl! These are cogent comments, so I'll reproduce them here
so they will be findable inside Google Groups and won't go offline.
---

Straight Shaft vs. Bent Shaft Paddles
by Greg Barton

I always look to racers to evaluate new innovations. For them, a fraction
of a percentage can make a big difference in their results, so they quickly
find what works and what doesn't.

Bent shaft, or crank shaft, paddles were first used by Richard Fox of
Great Britain in winning the 1989 K-1 Slalom World Championships. The
following year, a number of sprint kayak racers tried crank shaft wing
paddles. Most notable was Martin Hunter, the 1989 K-1 500 meter World
Champion from Australia. He finished 3rd in the K-1 500 event at the
1990 World Championships using a bent shaft paddle. He then switched
back to a straight shaft paddle the following year. No world class
sprint paddlers have used crank shafts since 1991.

Bent shafts are more popular with whitewater paddlers. In 1996, about
half of the World's top Slalom racers used bent shaft paddles, while
the other half continued to use straight shafts. That has since changed
to about 33% using bent shafts and 67% straight. Bent shafts are very
popular with whitewater rodeo competitors - probably making up 75% or
more among the top paddlers.

Bent shafts flopped in sprint racing (as well as marathon and open water
racing) for the following reasons:

1. There is no gain in forward speed using bent shafts. While it may put
the wrist in a slightly easier gripping position at the start of the stroke,
experienced paddlers can accomplish the same reach with relaxed grip on a
straight shaft. Top racers rarely have wrist problems with straight shafts.

2. The shape of a bent shaft makes it inherently weaker. Therefore a
heavier shaft is needed to achieve the same strength.

3. If you paddle with a feathered paddle (as all top sprint racers do),
a bent shaft makes the stroke asymmetrical. While the pushing (top hand)
position of the control hand is in a favorable position, the pushing
position of the off-control hand must turn in the opposite direction -
resulting in a more awkward push on the off control side.

4. Bent shafts do not allow the paddler to adjust the spacing between
the hands - they must hold the paddle only in one place.

Bent shafts have continued to remain popular with whitewater enthusiasts
for the following reasons:

1. They allow more control over the inclination of the paddle blade -
making turning strokes easier.

2. They give more indication of the blade orientation - making it easier to
position the paddle properly in heavy whitewater, when upside down, etc.

It still remains to be seen if bent shaft paddles are beneficial to touring
or sea kayakers. In this light, Epic Kayaks currently does not offer a bent
shaft version and has no plans to introduce one. We continue to monitor
our customer feedback and we will introduce innovations that work for us
as top paddlers.

In closing, I did use a bent shaft paddle in 1990 and it didn't work so
I never used it again. If something works for Oscar and myself, you,
the everyday paddler, will have it as soon as it is physically possible.

On 13-May-2005, Bill Tuthill wrote:

3. If you paddle with a feathered paddle (as all top sprint racers do),
a bent shaft makes the stroke asymmetrical. While the pushing (top hand)
position of the control hand is in a favorable position, the pushing
position of the off-control hand must turn in the opposite direction -
resulting in a more awkward push on the off control side.

This is a 'problem' with high feather angles, but less so with low feather
angles. The degree of feather will change the degree the off-hand is off
the centerline of the paddle. Regardless of feather angle, it's not a
problem when paddling with little force.

4. Bent shafts do not allow the paddler to adjust the spacing between
the hands - they must hold the paddle only in one place.

This is partly true - the hand grip part of the shaft will allow you to
move your hands in or out a couple of inches in total. In general, you
can get used to sliding your hands all over a bent shaft - it's not as
onerous as some would make it seem. It's easier to move your hands across
a bend than to slide it past a drip ring.

Mike

k.pearson wrote in
:

On 12 May 2005 10:45:40 -0700, Bill Tuthill wrote:

k.pearson wrote:

Greg Barton has a discussion on the Epic Kayak web page that does a
good job of putting bend shaft paddles in perspective. There are
places whene they offer some advantages, There are disadvantages that
most sea kayakers find out-weigh those advantanges.

Could you give us the URL please? I couldn't find it using Google,
either under "bent" or "bend" shaft.

Don't whitewater kayakers find that bent shaft paddles give them an
advantage in rolling? Think so.

Bill

This is the URL for the short article that Greg wrote in the Epic
Kayaks Oct 2004 newsletter.

http://www.epickayaks.com/newsletter...ctober2004.htm

I've always been one to follow the lead of the top competive athletes
when it comes to new equipment. If bent shaft was really beneficial
in sea kayaks, I think we'd be seeing them in racing use. I've tried
one, but Greg's comment about needing to space it exactly for each
paddler is right on. I needed about a 1/2 inch narrowerd spacing, and
it felt awkward.

I've had similary experiences with bent shaft paddles. I went on a trip a
few years ago off the coast of Newfoundland and the guide let me use his
Lendal bent shaft paddle. It felt like my hands were forced an inch or so
further apart than I'm used to. After less than an hour I switch paddles
with him to a plastic blade Aquabound. A friend of mine owns a paddle shop
and carries the Werner carbon fiber bent shaft paddles. I've tried them in
a variety of lengths and blade shapes and still prefer my own fiberglass
Lightning standard.