Does onw need a blower ???
Matt Lang wrote:
Folks, I posted another thread about my Merc 1250 ... now a few questions about the boat... I Must say that my boat experience consists of 2 years with a 14 ft/25 HP inflatable .. Now I bought a 18.5 ft fiberglass boat from an estate sale, its a 70ies model ... brand is VSonic or something like it ... I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor.... the boat has airintakes facing forward and backwards, so once the boat drives it gets ventilated. Is it necessary to install a fan to blow air in BEFORE starting? Can this be a simple fan or would that just add sparks from electrics and blow everything up? There's no need to operate a blower on an outboard boat as you describe. It is a good idea to vent the bilges on your boat, if your boat has bilges, to take a look around and to sniff for any sort of fumes. The boat has a drain plug in the stern. It doesnt have a valve, from my inflatable I am used to leaving the drainplugs always open, but they are checkvalves and as soon as it drives all the water comes out. Are fiberglass boats different? Do you only open the plug on land and close it in the water? If you do get some water do you just pump it out? Should I retrofit a pump? Or should I put in a checkvalve Whats the best for this kind of boat? You should not open the valve while you are in the water. If you don't have a bilge pump, install one. |
Does onw need a blower ???
Folks,
I posted another thread about my Merc 1250 ... now a few questions about the boat... I Must say that my boat experience consists of 2 years with a 14 ft/25 HP inflatable .. Now I bought a 18.5 ft fiberglass boat from an estate sale, its a 70ies model ... brand is VSonic or something like it ... I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor.... the boat has airintakes facing forward and backwards, so once the boat drives it gets ventilated. Is it necessary to install a fan to blow air in BEFORE starting? Can this be a simple fan or would that just add sparks from electrics and blow everything up? The boat has a drain plug in the stern. It doesnt have a valve, from my inflatable I am used to leaving the drainplugs always open, but they are checkvalves and as soon as it drives all the water comes out. Are fiberglass boats different? Do you only open the plug on land and close it in the water? If you do get some water do you just pump it out? Should I retrofit a pump? Or should I put in a checkvalve Whats the best for this kind of boat? Any advice appreciated :) Matt |
Does onw need a blower ???
JAXAshby wrote:
I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. |
Does onw need a blower ???
I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before
starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. |
Does onw need a blower ???
harry, check the regs
I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. |
Does onw need a blower ???
Blowers are only required w/ inboard or I/O engines. Outboard boats do not
require blowers for the bilge as there is no engine ignition source. -- Tony my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. |
Does onw need a blower ???
BOOM!!!
harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. this particular poster's situation, no such regulation concerning powered ventilation existed until after 1980. Otherwise, the following link represents the facts: http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin...ART=182&SECTIO N=460&TYPE=TEXT Frankly, although the machinery is required to be installed, I don't know of any regulation requiring its use. (Other than Darwin's school of really hard knocks.) Oh.... and 4 minutes is the magical quantity. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
Does onw need a blower ???
check the regs of enclosed spaces wirh gasoline and electrical equipment.
Blowers are only required w/ inboard or I/O engines. Outboard boats do not require blowers for the bilge as there is no engine ignition source. -- Tony my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. |
Does onw need a blower ???
I'd strongly suggest that you buy a copy of the bible, also known as the
Chapman book of seamanship and small boat handling. Search for it at www.bn.com (Barnes & Noble), using the words I mentioned. You'll find it. Read it from cover to cover, and then do it 12 more times. "Matt Lang" wrote in message om... Folks, I posted another thread about my Merc 1250 ... now a few questions about the boat... I Must say that my boat experience consists of 2 years with a 14 ft/25 HP inflatable .. Now I bought a 18.5 ft fiberglass boat from an estate sale, its a 70ies model ... brand is VSonic or something like it ... I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor.... the boat has airintakes facing forward and backwards, so once the boat drives it gets ventilated. Is it necessary to install a fan to blow air in BEFORE starting? Can this be a simple fan or would that just add sparks from electrics and blow everything up? The boat has a drain plug in the stern. It doesnt have a valve, from my inflatable I am used to leaving the drainplugs always open, but they are checkvalves and as soon as it drives all the water comes out. Are fiberglass boats different? Do you only open the plug on land and close it in the water? If you do get some water do you just pump it out? Should I retrofit a pump? Or should I put in a checkvalve Whats the best for this kind of boat? Any advice appreciated :) Matt |
Does onw need a blower ???
"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om... Can this be a simple fan or would that just add sparks from electrics and blow everything up? As others have said, you may not need ventilation for your particular boat. But, if you decide to be anal and install it anyway, you CANNOT use just any old fan. Consult a boat supply company - it has to be a blower made for the purpose. This assumes that you don't like spontaneous barbeques, with you as the main course. |
Does onw need a blower ???
Matt.... You probably don't need any kind of blower with an outboard, but it wiil depend on your fuel tank installation. Requirements are in CFR, Title 33, Parts 175 and 183, as shown below. Ref: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/c...rch.html#page1 Title 33, CFR..... Sec. 175.201 Ventilation. No person may operate a boat.... Sec. 183.610 Powered ventilation system. (a) Each compartment in a boat that has a permanently installed gasoline engine with a cranking motor must: (1) Be open to the atmosphere, or (2) Be ventilated by an exhaust blower system. (b) Each exhaust blower or combination of blowers must be rated at an air flow ... etc.... Sec. 183.620 Natural ventilation system. (a) Except for compartments open to the atmosphere, a natural ventilation system that meets the requirements of Sec. 183.630 must be provided for each compartment in a boat that: (1) Contains a permanently installed gasoline engine; (2) Has openings between it and a compartment that requires ventilation, etc...... (3) Contains a permanently installed fuel tank and an electrical component that is not ignition protected...... (4) Contains a fuel tank that vents into that compartment; or (5) Contains a non-metallic fuel tank: (i) With an aggregate permeability rate etc...... (b) Each supply opening required in Sec. 183.630 must be located on the exterior surface of the boat. |
Does onw need a blower ???
Around 3/30/2004 8:58 PM, Doug Kanter wrote:
"Matt Lang" wrote in message om... Can this be a simple fan or would that just add sparks from electrics and blow everything up? As others have said, you may not need ventilation for your particular boat. But, if you decide to be anal and install it anyway, you CANNOT use just any old fan. Consult a boat supply company - it has to be a blower made for the purpose. If you're in the mood for a laugh, just look for "electric superchargers" on eBay. They're usually marine blowers marketed as a performance "upgrade" for those too stupid to use Google. :) -- ~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat" "There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." -Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows |
Does onw need a blower ???
Also Sprach JAXAshby :
check the regs of enclosed spaces wirh gasoline and electrical equipment. Here's the reg: 33 CFR Section 183.610: Sec. 183.610 Powered ventilation system. (a) Each compartment in a boat that has a permanently installed gasoline engine with a cranking motor must: (1) Be open to the atmosphere, or (2) Be ventilated by an exhaust blower system. So, if there is no gasoline engine with a cranking motor in the compartment, a powered ventilation system is not required. It looks like we now have another tidbit to add to your honor roll of ignorant statements. How does it feel to be WRONG again, Jax? You never admit when you are wrong, and it's lots of fun to poke you with that fact. It's great to watch you make a complete fool of yourself in your clumsy attempts to defend your crumbling position. Any time you are caught doing this, you attempt to sidestep the issue with personal insults, in the face of overwhelming evidence which proves you wrong. Admit it jax, a powered ventilation system is not legally required in a closed compartment unless it contains a gasoline engine with a cranking motor. Admit it jax, water intrusion destroys coax cable both by changing the linear capacitance value and quickly allowing the shielding braid to corrode. Admit it jax, there is a functional lock on the Shinnecock canal. It's been there for decades, and I even gave you a telephone number to call the lockmaster and verify this, as well as aerial, satelite, and ground level photographs, and a scan of a chart for the area. Admit it jax, you can't buy a one-horsepower engine with 550 ft-lbs of torque output. One horsepower is NOT equal to 550 ft-lbs. Admit it jax, the manufacturer of Algae-X does indeed have a published street address, city, state, phone numbers, and the name of it's owner. I supplied them all to you. Admit it jax, a 1957 Johnson 35 hp, 1954 Johnson 25 hp, and 1961 Johnson 40 hp all use the same magneto coil. I supplied you with the part number, pricing, and the manufacturer's techical support phone number to verify this. Admit it jax, you do NOT look sexy in a speedo. Dan |
Does onw need a blower ???
JAXAshby wrote:
harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. Are you claiming these hundreds of thousands of boats were built and sold outside the regs? |
Does onw need a blower ???
why thank you for your thoughtful, informed post, danny boy. I am sure we all
appreciate the effort you went through to write. It is not often that a Line Ex coder can be so informed, particularly one from Georgie Wreck. We, I speak for all of us I believe, also make allowance for the fact that Line Ex coders may not churn gray cells as quickly as a Ewe Nex coder does, so let me be gentle in pointing out that you did not read the regs as thorougly as you might have (perhaps the pizza arrived while you were composting) in pointing you to the part of the reg that states: "3) Contains a permanently installed fuel tank and an electrical component that is not ignition protected......" I feel that your efforts should be rewarded for the fact that you made an effort. Perhaps a bit more thorough prep on your part next time might make an improvement. check the regs of enclosed spaces wirh gasoline and electrical equipment. Here's the reg: 33 CFR Section 183.610: Sec. 183.610 Powered ventilation system. (a) Each compartment in a boat that has a permanently installed gasoline engine with a cranking motor must: (1) Be open to the atmosphere, or (2) Be ventilated by an exhaust blower system. So, if there is no gasoline engine with a cranking motor in the compartment, a powered ventilation system is not required. It looks like we now have another tidbit to add to your honor roll of ignorant statements. How does it feel to be WRONG again, Jax? You never admit when you are wrong, and it's lots of fun to poke you with that fact. It's great to watch you make a complete fool of yourself in your clumsy attempts to defend your crumbling position. Any time you are caught doing this, you attempt to sidestep the issue with personal insults, in the face of overwhelming evidence which proves you wrong. Admit it jax, a powered ventilation system is not legally required in a closed compartment unless it contains a gasoline engine with a cranking motor. Admit it jax, water intrusion destroys coax cable both by changing the linear capacitance value and quickly allowing the shielding braid to corrode. Admit it jax, there is a functional lock on the Shinnecock canal. It's been there for decades, and I even gave you a telephone number to call the lockmaster and verify this, as well as aerial, satelite, and ground level photographs, and a scan of a chart for the area. Admit it jax, you can't buy a one-horsepower engine with 550 ft-lbs of torque output. One horsepower is NOT equal to 550 ft-lbs. Admit it jax, the manufacturer of Algae-X does indeed have a published street address, city, state, phone numbers, and the name of it's owner. I supplied them all to you. Admit it jax, a 1957 Johnson 35 hp, 1954 Johnson 25 hp, and 1961 Johnson 40 hp all use the same magneto coil. I supplied you with the part number, pricing, and the manufacturer's techical support phone number to verify this. Admit it jax, you do NOT look sexy in a speedo. Dan |
Does onw need a blower ???
"Matt Lang" wrote in message om... Is it necessary to install a fan to blow air in BEFORE starting? Is this an outboard, or an I/O? The legal requirements state that any boat with an engine in an enclosed compartment must have proper forced air ventilation, which means an electric blower. If you have an outboard, and there is no machinery in the compartment where the gas tank is located, then you do not need to have a blower. Can this be a simple fan or would that just add sparks from electrics and blow everything up? Any electrical item you mount in the engine compartment needs to be marine rated. The entire purpose of the blower is to safely remove explosive gases. To install a fan that would ignite said gases would not be a very good idea. Are fiberglass boats different? Only in that they are bigger and if enough water gets inside they will sink. Do you only open the plug on land and close it in the water? Many people will pull the drain plug out when they take the boat out of the water so that any water inside will drain out while you are trailering the boat around. Hopefully you remember to put the plug back in before you launch the boat. Just about everyone has a story about someone who forgot to put the plug in, however. If you do get some water do you just pump it out? Should I retrofit a pump? Or should I put in a checkvalve Whats the best for this kind of boat? I recommend having an electric bilge pump, but they are not always necessary. If your boat is fairly open then you can scoop any water out with a bucket. If there is bilge space under the floorboards, however, then a bilge pump will be essential. You can get check valve drain plugs but my experience is that they end up leaking and causing more problems than they solve. Rod |
Does onw need a blower ???
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:17:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: On 31 Mar 2004 01:44:51 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. this particular poster's situation, no such regulation concerning powered ventilation existed until after 1980. Otherwise, the following link represents the facts: http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin...=460&TYPE=TEXT Frankly, although the machinery is required to be installed, I don't know of any regulation requiring its use. (Other than Darwin's school of really hard knocks.) Oh.... and 4 minutes is the magical quantity. Hmmm. If it is required to be installed, how come it isn't? I don't think there is any requirement to retrofit pre-1981 vessels with powered blowers, so my guess is that this poster is grandfathered in. All of these regs seem to point to 33 CFR 181 which relates to manufacturers, not end users. For newer vessels, a powered blower is only necessary where a gasoline tank is in the same compartment with a non-ignition protected device (a highly unlikely scenario). 33 CFR 183 http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...cfr183.610.pdf Aha...thanks. |
Does onw need a blower ???
And the tank is vented into this area or is plastic and has a permeability
rate that exceeds regulation. -- Tony my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:17:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: On 31 Mar 2004 01:44:51 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. this particular poster's situation, no such regulation concerning powered ventilation existed until after 1980. Otherwise, the following link represents the facts: http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin...=460&TYPE=TEXT Frankly, although the machinery is required to be installed, I don't know of any regulation requiring its use. (Other than Darwin's school of really hard knocks.) Oh.... and 4 minutes is the magical quantity. Hmmm. If it is required to be installed, how come it isn't? I don't think there is any requirement to retrofit pre-1981 vessels with powered blowers, so my guess is that this poster is grandfathered in. All of these regs seem to point to 33 CFR 181 which relates to manufacturers, not end users. For newer vessels, a powered blower is only necessary where a gasoline tank is in the same compartment with a non-ignition protected device (a highly unlikely scenario). 33 CFR 183 http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...cfr183.610.pdf -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
Does onw need a blower ???
It only applies if the electrical equipment is not ignition protected. All
boat manufacturers are required to use ignition protected components and any fuel tank located in the enclosed bilge area is permanently installed and vented to the outside instead of the bilge. Any removable/portable fuel tank is required to be located in an open naturally ventilated area. Therefore there is no requirement for a blower in the bilge for an outboard. I have yet to see any outboard boat w/ a blower in the bilge made any year to include 2004. -- Tony my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... check the regs of enclosed spaces wirh gasoline and electrical equipment. Blowers are only required w/ inboard or I/O engines. Outboard boats do not require blowers for the bilge as there is no engine ignition source. -- Tony my boats at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... harry, check the regs I read that one should run blowers to vent the gas tank area before starting the motor if you have any electrical equipment (such as a battery) in an enclosed compartment that contains gasoline you are required under regulations to run the blower for 5 minutes (?, it might be 4 minutes, who the hell remembers). Opening it up and sniffing is even better, but doesn't meet regs. That doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of outboard boats extant that have fuel tanks under the deck, aling with batteries and all sorts of other devices, and no blowers. |
Does onw need a blower ???
"Rod McInnis" wrote in message "Matt Lang" wrote in message Is it necessary to install a fan to blow air in BEFORE starting? Is this an outboard, or an I/O? The legal requirements state that any boat with an engine in an enclosed compartment must have proper forced air ventilation, which means an electric blower. Be careful here. It is important to note that the blower should be set up to exhaust air --to suck air out of the compartment rather than blow it in. More efficient removal of fumes that way. This requires that there be other vent openings of a certain size to allow replacement air into the compartment. If you have an outboard, and there is no machinery in the compartment where the gas tank is located, then you do not need to have a blower. Generally, yes. But if the tank is alone in the compartment, and the tank vents into that compartment, then the compartment must be ventilated. Regards, John Gaquin Brefnie Queen 1974 Luhrs 32 |
Does onw need a blower ???
"John Gaquin" wrote in message ... Be careful here. It is important to note that the blower should be set up to exhaust air --to suck air out of the compartment rather than blow it in. More efficient removal of fumes that way. This requires that there be other vent openings of a certain size to allow replacement air into the compartment. True. In fact, there are additional requirements for the blower/ventilation system. I am not exactly sure what they are, but I know that there are requirements that state how low in the bilge the air must be drawn from. It doesn't do any good to suck air off the top, you need to get the heavy fumes off the bottom. If I recall, the requirement is not higher than a certain distance but above the expected level of bilge water (you don't want the blower hose blocked by water). There should also be natural ventilation that will keep the bilge ventilated without the aid of the blower once the vessel is underway. This usually means forward facing vents towards the front and rear facing vents towards the rear. I believe these requirements have changed over the years so new boats will have a different setup than older boats. Rod |
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