DUAL marine AM/FM/CD receiver installation issue
 

I have a 69 Glasspar Cutlas and I am trying to build in a DUAL Marine
AM/FM/CD receiver, but when I hook everything up the unit will not
power on. I have tried a variety of things. I tried hooking up ground
to some metal parts on the boat, and I even tried hooking it up to
Negative on the battery. I went out and bought another stereo system
to see if the first unit was bad, but this new unit won't power on
either.

The battery on the boat is in great shape, and the wiring is done
correctly. I have a fish finder that works off of the same battery and
it powers on fine.

The radio is going straight to the battery, and all the fuses are good.
For testing purposes I'm hooking both power (red) and switched power
(yellow) to the battery. The voltage on the battery is also correct.

Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong here? It must be something small
I'm forgetting here... but I just can't figure it out.

Any help would be appreciated!!

Thanks

On 9 May 2005 06:35:28 -0700, "T39" wrote:

I have a 69 Glasspar Cutlas and I am trying to build in a DUAL Marine
AM/FM/CD receiver, but when I hook everything up the unit will not
power on. I have tried a variety of things. I tried hooking up ground
to some metal parts on the boat, and I even tried hooking it up to
Negative on the battery. I went out and bought another stereo system
to see if the first unit was bad, but this new unit won't power on
either.

The battery on the boat is in great shape, and the wiring is done
correctly. I have a fish finder that works off of the same battery and
it powers on fine.

The radio is going straight to the battery, and all the fuses are good.
For testing purposes I'm hooking both power (red) and switched power
(yellow) to the battery. The voltage on the battery is also correct.

Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong here? It must be something small
I'm forgetting here... but I just can't figure it out.

Any help would be appreciated!!

I know this is going to sound really stupid and I'm not trying to be a
smartass, but have you held the on button in for a second or two
rather than just pressing it?

Other than that, it's got to be a wiring issue or a miswired connector
issue.

Later,

Tom

Tom,
Thanks for you reply. I have actually tried that. I've tried holding
it for 10 seconds or more just because I didn't know what else to try
:)

Other than that, it's got to be a wiring issue or a miswired
connector
issue.

Do you mean the connector on the back of the receiver? The thing is
brand new and I tried another one that was brand new, so I think it's
safe to assume that's not it...

On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:07:48 GMT, Red Cloud©
wrote:

On 9 May 2005 06:35:28 -0700, "T39" wrote:

I have a 69 Glasspar Cutlas and I am trying to build in a DUAL Marine
AM/FM/CD receiver, but when I hook everything up the unit will not
power on. I have tried a variety of things. I tried hooking up ground
to some metal parts on the boat, and I even tried hooking it up to
Negative on the battery. I went out and bought another stereo system
to see if the first unit was bad, but this new unit won't power on
either.

The battery on the boat is in great shape, and the wiring is done
correctly. I have a fish finder that works off of the same battery and
it powers on fine.

The radio is going straight to the battery, and all the fuses are good.
For testing purposes I'm hooking both power (red) and switched power
(yellow) to the battery. The voltage on the battery is also correct.

Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong here? It must be something small
I'm forgetting here... but I just can't figure it out.

Any help would be appreciated!!

Thanks

When you "wired it correctly" did you by any chance end up putting
enough tension on the wires leading out of an in-line fuse holder to
cause it to not make contact with the fuse it contains? This can
easily happen when applying tie-wraps and other wire management
devices.

That's a good point - I've done that more than once.

Later,

Tom

On 9 May 2005 07:41:10 -0700, "T39" wrote:

Tom,
Thanks for you reply. I have actually tried that. I've tried holding
it for 10 seconds or more just because I didn't know what else to try
:)

Other than that, it's got to be a wiring issue or a miswired
connector
issue.

Do you mean the connector on the back of the receiver? The thing is
brand new and I tried another one that was brand new, so I think it's
safe to assume that's not it...

I assume that this radio comes with two connectors - one at the end of
a wire bundle coming out of the radio (or a connector at the radio)
and one for connecting the power, speakers, etc.

If the power, speakers, etc are one bundle connecting to the radio,
then I've got to suspect a miswire, blowen fuse, perhaps a hot wire
miswire - something is not wired correctly if all else is correct.

Or, based on nothing more than circumstance, the radio gods hate you
and don't want you to use a radio on your boat. :)

Later,

Tom

1) Establish that you have voltage at the battery. As other accessories
powered by the same battery are reported to be working, that is a safe
assumption in your case.

2) Test for voltage where the wires terminate at the stereo. If you
have sufficient voltage and a complete circuit to that point, the
problem is then either an internal problem in the radio or (possibly)
lack of proper grounding. Do this test even if you are using two short
pieces of wire to connect directly to the battery for a test. Don't
just assume you're getting power because a
3 ft wire is connected directly to the battery- there could me an
internal problem with the wire. If you're using cheap, solid
"automotive wire" vs. proper, stranded "marine cable" the chance of an
internal problem goes up a lot- particularly with an older wire.

3) If you have power at the battery but no or insufficient voltage
where the wires terminate at the radio, you have a dirty, loose, or
improper connection between the radio and the battery. If this is the
case, start at the battery once again and trace the wires to any buss
bars, circuit breakers, etc that may be between the battery and the
radio. Test for voltage. When you find a connection without power or
proper voltage, look carefully at that connection, and look again at
the connection immediately preceding it in the circuit.

Thanks for the post...
The boat came wired. From what I can tell it looks like it is wired
correctly. I actually ran a straight test wire to the battery to hook
up this new receiver, and did the same with the other AM/FM receiver I
bought. The thing still wouldn't power on...

On the DUAL marine receiver there's just one big wire bundle that you
connect to the back of the radio with a connector. The two power wires
(red and yellow) come with fuses, that are intact.

The second AM/FM receiver I tried is a car stereo (brand new) that has
two connectors: one for speakers and one for power (red and yellow),
ground (black) and power antenna.

I don't know... I have built in numerous car stereos into older cars,
and this is basically the same deal... but somehow I can't get it to
work. I am thinking the radio gods really must hate me or something :)

Do you have a multimeter? See if you're getting power at the radio, don't
just assume it. Next, meter the boat's speaker wires to make sure they're
o.k.

Also, try leaving the yellow wire disconnected when hooking up the red and
black wires, then tie the yellow to +12v AFTER you've hooked up main power.



"T39" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the post...
The boat came wired. From what I can tell it looks like it is wired
correctly. I actually ran a straight test wire to the battery to hook
up this new receiver, and did the same with the other AM/FM receiver I
bought. The thing still wouldn't power on...

I actually ran a straight test wire to the battery to hook
up this new receiver, and did the same with the other AM/FM receiver I
bought. The thing still wouldn't power on...

**********

Which thing?

If you can get one receiver to work wired directly to the battery and
not the other, the problem is almost certainly inside the receiver that
doesn't work.

On 9 May 2005 09:08:22 -0700, "T39" wrote:

Thanks for the post...
The boat came wired. From what I can tell it looks like it is wired
correctly. I actually ran a straight test wire to the battery to hook
up this new receiver, and did the same with the other AM/FM receiver I
bought. The thing still wouldn't power on...

Well, that's it then - the radio gods hate your guts.

I'm finding it hard to understand why it won't work directly to the
battery. If it's not a fuse, the thing is directly wired to power,
the only other issue would be voltage mismatch and I don't think that
is an issue.

When you figure it out, so let us know what it was.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom

Sorry - thing = receiver. I can't get either receiver to power on.
Both receivers are brand new.

On 9 May 2005 09:16:54 -0700, "T39" wrote:

On the DUAL marine receiver there's just one big wire bundle that you
connect to the back of the radio with a connector. The two power wires
(red and yellow) come with fuses, that are intact.

The second AM/FM receiver I tried is a car stereo (brand new) that has
two connectors: one for speakers and one for power (red and yellow),
ground (black) and power antenna.

Normally, red/yellow is for the clock/memory or accessory if it is
following the EIA standard - there should be a solid red wire for
radio positive.

Later,

Tom

Thanks for your post...

Do you have a multimeter? See if you're getting power at the radio,
don't
just assume it. Next, meter the boat's speaker wires to make sure
they're
o.k.

I'm going out to get one after work today :) So far I have used the
depth finder to make sure the wire is hot. The depth finder comes on
when I run it off of the same wire... but I guess that doesn't tell me
anything... or does it?

Also, try leaving the yellow wire disconnected when hooking up the red
and
black wires, then tie the yellow to +12v AFTER you've hooked up main
power.

I have tried this...

wrote:
1) Establish that you have voltage at the battery. As other
accessories
powered by the same battery are reported to be working, that is a
safe
assumption in your case.

2) Test for voltage where the wires terminate at the stereo. If you
have sufficient voltage and a complete circuit to that point, the
problem is then either an internal problem in the radio or (possibly)
lack of proper grounding. Do this test even if you are using two
short
pieces of wire to connect directly to the battery for a test. Don't
just assume you're getting power because a
3 ft wire is connected directly to the battery- there could me an
internal problem with the wire. If you're using cheap, solid
"automotive wire" vs. proper, stranded "marine cable" the chance of
an
internal problem goes up a lot- particularly with an older wire.

3) If you have power at the battery but no or insufficient voltage
where the wires terminate at the radio, you have a dirty, loose, or
improper connection between the radio and the battery. If this is the
case, start at the battery once again and trace the wires to any buss
bars, circuit breakers, etc that may be between the battery and the
radio. Test for voltage. When you find a connection without power or
proper voltage, look carefully at that connection, and look again at
the connection immediately preceding it in the circuit.


Thanks for your detailed instructions... this is a very old boat, and I
was wondering what you think is the best way to ground this radio.
Should I just connect ground to any metal part of the boat or is there
anything in particular I should be looking for?

Thanks

Sorry - thing = receiver. I can't get either receiver to power on.
Both receivers are brand new.


****************

1) Do they need to be grounded in order to power up, and are they?
Check the installation instructions.

1a) Are you connecting the wires to the proper terminals?

2) Odds of having a bad wire or poor connection to the battery are
higher than having *two* brand new receivers that won't work. Test for
voltage at the end of your test wires. If you don't have a meter, wire
something else that is known to be working to the end of the same two
wires and see what happens.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 9 May 2005 09:16:54 -0700, "T39" wrote:

On the DUAL marine receiver there's just one big wire bundle that
you
connect to the back of the radio with a connector. The two power
wires
(red and yellow) come with fuses, that are intact.

The second AM/FM receiver I tried is a car stereo (brand new) that
has
two connectors: one for speakers and one for power (red and yellow),
ground (black) and power antenna.

Normally, red/yellow is for the clock/memory or accessory if it is
following the EIA standard - there should be a solid red wire for
radio positive.

Later,

Tom


Correct, and I'm sorry for the confusion: on both receivers I have two
seperate wires... one is solid red and one is solid yellow. Like you
said, solid read for positive and solid yellow for accessory.

Sorry - thing = receiver. I can't get either receiver to power on.
Both receivers are brand new.


Brand new and they don't have an MP3 player?


wrote:
2) Odds of having a bad wire or poor connection to the battery are
higher than having *two* brand new receivers that won't work.

Agreed. There's something fishy in the wiring here, especially likely
since the OP says it's an old boat.

.... Test for
voltage at the end of your test wires. If you don't have a meter, wire
something else that is known to be working to the end of the same two
wires and see what happens.


If you don't have a multimeter, get one... and read the instruction
manual. It's a fundamental tool for anybody who owns a boat with any
electrical equipment... not a bad tool for a home owner to have, either.
They're not expensive. Trying to troubleshoot without a multimeter is
like trying to drive nails without a hammer. It can be done, but it's
slow & painful ;)

Fair Skies
Doug King

Should I just connect ground to any metal part of the boat or is there
anything in particular I should be looking for?

****************

A ferrous metal part of the boat that ultimately contacts the water.

Does your boat have a grounding strip or buss? Did you pull out an
existing radio? If so, reuse the same groung location. If all else
fails, the engine contacts the water through
the shaft, etc.

wrote:
Should I just connect ground to any metal part of the boat or is
there
anything in particular I should be looking for?

****************

A ferrous metal part of the boat that ultimately contacts the water.

Does your boat have a grounding strip or buss? Did you pull out an
existing radio? If so, reuse the same groung location. If all else
fails, the engine contacts the water through
the shaft, etc.

I don't know if it does. What does a particular grounding strip or
buss look like? I didn't pull out an existing radio, I actually
created a (rather big) glove compartment in which I have mounted the
radio.

It is possible that your battery is bad and
the units that are presently working have a wider range of possible
operating voltages than the stereo. Your depth finder may be able to
operate on 9 or 10 volts, and the radio may require 11 volts minimum
to work. Different devices may have different thresholds below which
they will not function.

********

Good point.

Thanks for the outstanding information everyone... I will try out a
couple of things this PM and return with my findings :)

Boats are not like cars. Boats do not have a ground system in them as the
body is not metal. You need a ground wire from the battery and a positive
wire from the battery and a positive wire from accessory (or wire both to
positive battery). You must have a ground from the battery. Any piece of
metal will not be a ground.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"T39" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the outstanding information everyone... I will try out a
couple of things this PM and return with my findings :)

Take a meter and check for voltage between your power line and ground line.

"tony thomas" wrote in message
news:%WTfe.68268$NU4.41598@attbi_s22...
Boats are not like cars. Boats do not have a ground system in them as the
body is not metal. You need a ground wire from the battery and a positive
wire from the battery and a positive wire from accessory (or wire both to
positive battery). You must have a ground from the battery. Any piece of
metal will not be a ground.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"T39" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the outstanding information everyone... I will try out a
couple of things this PM and return with my findings :)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 01:15:39 GMT, "tony thomas"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Boats do not have a ground system in them as the
body is not metal.

You have to have a ground system or anything that requires DC won't
work.

Later,

Tom

"T39" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Should I just connect ground to any metal part of the boat or is
there
anything in particular I should be looking for?

Does your boat have a grounding strip or buss? Did you pull out an
existing radio? If so, reuse the same groung location. If all else
fails, the engine contacts the water through
the shaft, etc.

I don't know if it does. What does a particular grounding strip or
buss look like? I didn't pull out an existing radio, I actually
created a (rather big) glove compartment in which I have mounted the
radio.

Run it from the negative side of the battery, then connect it to the black
ground wire of the radio and also to the metal chassis of the radio. Maybe
the radio chassis has to be grounded as well?

Jack

The multi-meter definitely put me on the right track. It turned out
that the ground wire was causing all the problems. My hot wire was
good, but when I traced my ground wire back to the negative end I found
a big break in the wire. The reason I didn't find out about this
earlier is because it was behind all the gauges and stuff where it was
tore up. I had to literally take everything apart to find out where it
was messed up.

I replaced the ground and things are working great now. Thanks a lot
everyone for your help. It is greatly appreciated!

why not try them both on a bench with a battery?

Thanks for the follow up post - it's how a lot of us learn.
Something I learned from listening to Click and Clack on Car Talk radio
years ago, is that when screwy things happen and there doesn't seem to be a
consistency to an electrical problem, it's almost always a grounding
problem.

"T39" wrote in message
oups.com...
The multi-meter definitely put me on the right track. It turned out
that the ground wire was causing all the problems. My hot wire was
good, but when I traced my ground wire back to the negative end I found
a big break in the wire. The reason I didn't find out about this
earlier is because it was behind all the gauges and stuff where it was
tore up. I had to literally take everything apart to find out where it
was messed up.

I replaced the ground and things are working great now. Thanks a lot
everyone for your help. It is greatly appreciated!

On 9 May 2005 06:35:28 -0700, "T39" wrote:

I have a 69 Glasspar Cutlas and I am trying to build in a DUAL Marine
AM/FM/CD receiver, but when I hook everything up the unit will not
power on.

Its the rectifier.