Hey... a BOAT post!!!!!
 

Greetings to all that are here for boating posts, "bite me" to the rest...

I take delivery of a 2005 Key West 186CC, and I'm waaaay excited. This will
be my first "serious" boat, and I had a question that google isn't making
too clear...

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini top.
We both agree that an 8ft would get better range, but there isn't a place to
mount it and still use the bimini. My question... can I buy an 8ft, keep it
in one of the side rod holders, and screw it on for emergency calls?

I'd guess that 75 percent of the time I'll be within 10 miles of the harbor
and USCG station, but occasionally I run up the ICW.

Just checking.

JR
05 Key West 186CC (almost)

Around 4/19/2005 7:52 PM, JR_FXLR wrote:

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini top.

Let me guess: Neither you nor the dealer wants to muss that pretty new
fiberglass by drilling mounting holes in it? :)

We both agree that an 8ft would get better range, but there isn't a place to
mount it and still use the bimini. My question... can I buy an 8ft, keep it
in one of the side rod holders, and screw it on for emergency calls?

You *could*, since it's your boat. I wouldn't, and I don't think you
should either, if for only this one reason: In the case of a *real*
emergency, are you really going to want to take the time to screw in
your antenna before calling for help?

That reminds me of my great uncle's mindset. He always kept a life
jacket on the swim step, but never actually wore one. He reasoned that
if he were ever thrown overboard that he could simply swim aft and put
it on, and no amount of reasoning could convince him that wasn't a very
good idea.

My suggestion would be to either go with the whip, or find a spot to
mount an 8' that won't be affected by the canvas.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

Ok, now what makes you think this is a boat group??? Please refrain
from posting boat related stuff in here! ;)

Ok, seriously ... what matters with VHF is antenna height and having it
properly tuned....

I also have a 4 foot antenna and in an emergency IF you have the time I
can unscrew it and hold it higher or duct tape it to a paddle and hold
that high up.

The same you can keep an 8 ft antenna and use that for emergencies

Both isnt ideal and only for non time critical emergency.

The other thing you have to ask yourself is how far you wil be away
from the shore? If not too far then 4 ft may be just fine.

Matt

"JR_FXLR" wrote in message
. com...
Greetings to all that are here for boating posts, "bite me" to the rest...

I take delivery of a 2005 Key West 186CC, and I'm waaaay excited. This
will be my first "serious" boat, and I had a question that google isn't
making too clear...

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini top.
We both agree that an 8ft would get better range, but there isn't a place
to mount it and still use the bimini. My question... can I buy an 8ft,
keep it in one of the side rod holders, and screw it on for emergency
calls?

I'd guess that 75 percent of the time I'll be within 10 miles of the
harbor and USCG station, but occasionally I run up the ICW.

Just checking.

JR
05 Key West 186CC (almost)


You can mount outside the bimini. But most 4' whips will reach the Coast
Guard as they have good equipment and tall antennas. And they will be able
to talk to you as they use more than the 25 watts of power we use.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 02:52:45 GMT, "JR_FXLR"
wrote:

Greetings to all that are here for boating posts, "bite me" to the rest...

I take delivery of a 2005 Key West 186CC, and I'm waaaay excited. This will
be my first "serious" boat, and I had a question that google isn't making
too clear...

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini top.
We both agree that an 8ft would get better range, but there isn't a place to
mount it and still use the bimini. My question... can I buy an 8ft, keep it
in one of the side rod holders, and screw it on for emergency calls?

I'd guess that 75 percent of the time I'll be within 10 miles of the harbor
and USCG station, but occasionally I run up the ICW.

There is no practical difference between a 4 foot base loaded
stainless whip and an 8 foot fiberglass whip in this circumstance.

Adding an 8 foot antenna would be a waste of money considering where
and how you are going to operate.

Later,

Tom

"Garth Almgren" wrote in message
...
Around 4/19/2005 7:52 PM, JR_FXLR wrote:

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini
top.

Let me guess: Neither you nor the dealer wants to muss that pretty new
fiberglass by drilling mounting holes in it? :)

BINGO!!! Actually, the dealer is more than happy to drill away- I just told
him to hold off until I think it through a little. I
drilled/mounted/sawed/etc all OVER my little Bayliner- but I really don't
want to break the tools out on this new boat the day I pick it up- and it's
supposed to be 75F Friday, so I'll definitely be in the water with it as
soon as I fill'er up!


That reminds me of my great uncle's mindset. He always kept a life jacket
on the swim step, but never actually wore one. He reasoned that if he were
ever thrown overboard that he could simply swim aft and put it on, and no
amount of reasoning could convince him that wasn't a very good idea.

Same reason I bring tools. If I didn't bring them, something breaks. Bring
them- everything's okey-dokey.

Thanks for the input!

JR.

"JR_FXLR" wrote in message
. com...
Greetings to all that are here for boating posts, "bite me" to the rest...

I take delivery of a 2005 Key West 186CC, and I'm waaaay excited. This
will be my first "serious" boat, and I had a question that google isn't
making too clear...

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini top.
We both agree that an 8ft would get better range, but there isn't a place
to mount it and still use the bimini. My question... can I buy an 8ft,
keep it in one of the side rod holders, and screw it on for emergency
calls?

I'd guess that 75 percent of the time I'll be within 10 miles of the
harbor and USCG station, but occasionally I run up the ICW.

Just checking.

JR
05 Key West 186CC (almost)


Thanks all for the prompt info. With that and even more google efforts I'm
going with the rail mounted 4ft. I may buy an 8ft and keep it at the house,
maybe hook it up on the days that I won't be using the bimini- which is ONLY
the days that the wife stays home (rarely). I agree that in a true emergency
I probably won't have time to be screwing around with antennas. That, and I
wonder how long that fiberglass antenna would last bouncing around that side
hold- even with the little bungees.

JR.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 02:52:45 GMT, "JR_FXLR"
wrote:

Greetings to all that are here for boating posts, "bite me" to the rest...

I take delivery of a 2005 Key West 186CC, and I'm waaaay excited. This will
be my first "serious" boat, and I had a question that google isn't making
too clear...

Ive had about a dozen Key Wests over the years.I gave most of them
away.

The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae)
you will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further. Since VHF is
"line of sight" you are limited by the curvature of the earth - the
distance to the horizon.

I went for the 4' fiberglass antenna since I already have enough things
on the boat to stick me in the eye. They are more expensive than
stainless but they also look better in my opinion.


Dan

JR_FXLR wrote:
Greetings to all that are here for boating posts, "bite me" to the rest...

I take delivery of a 2005 Key West 186CC, and I'm waaaay excited. This will
be my first "serious" boat, and I had a question that google isn't making
too clear...

My dealer is installing a 4ft stainless VHF antennae due to my bimini top.
We both agree that an 8ft would get better range, but there isn't a place to
mount it and still use the bimini. My question... can I buy an 8ft, keep it
in one of the side rod holders, and screw it on for emergency calls?

I'd guess that 75 percent of the time I'll be within 10 miles of the harbor
and USCG station, but occasionally I run up the ICW.

Just checking.

JR
05 Key West 186CC (almost)

"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
ink.net...
The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae) you
will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further.

True, or close to it depending on the db gain you used. ;-)

Calculation for Range of an Antenna:

6db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.15= Range in
miles
9db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.52= Range in
miles

So we are talking a range of roughly 3 miles for the 4 foot vs 4.25 miles
for the 8 foot.

Not a big difference as you said.

I assumed the same db gain (but none in particular) since the distance
to the horizon would be the limiting factor. As far as I know, the gain
will only come into play if the antenna is VERY high.

I'm not an expert, I don't play one on TV, and I haven't stayed at a
Holiday Inn Express in over four years.

Dan


JimH wrote:
"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
ink.net...

The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae) you
will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further.


True, or close to it depending on the db gain you used. ;-)

Calculation for Range of an Antenna:

6db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.15= Range in
miles
9db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.52= Range in
miles

So we are talking a range of roughly 3 miles for the 4 foot vs 4.25 miles
for the 8 foot.

Not a big difference as you said.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:27:22 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
link.net...
The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae) you
will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further.

True, or close to it depending on the db gain you used. ;-)

Calculation for Range of an Antenna:

6db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.15= Range in
miles
9db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.52= Range in
miles

So we are talking a range of roughly 3 miles for the 4 foot vs 4.25 miles
for the 8 foot.

Not a big difference as you said.

You have to remember that the db figure is based on a free space
formula - in short, an imaginary antenna range - it's all math and
perfect performance.

In the real world it's not any where near 6 db for a variety of
reasons including standing waves, ground conditions, radio
performance, height, ground plane, data, data, data. The reason
manufacturer's can advertise the specs is because, in theory, that's
what the antenna will produce given perfect conditions.

Also be careful about the line-of-sight deal. FM also relies on
ground wave much as AM does - it's the reason you can receive an FM
station more than line-of-sight from the FM station antenna.

By the way, there is no such thing as a 9 db antenna unless you are
talking about a Yagi.

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:27:22 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
hlink.net...
The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae)
you
will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further.

True, or close to it depending on the db gain you used. ;-)

Calculation for Range of an Antenna:

6db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.15= Range in
miles
9db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.52= Range in
miles

So we are talking a range of roughly 3 miles for the 4 foot vs 4.25 miles
for the 8 foot.

Not a big difference as you said.

You have to remember that the db figure is based on a free space
formula - in short, an imaginary antenna range - it's all math and
perfect performance.

In the real world it's not any where near 6 db for a variety of
reasons including standing waves, ground conditions, radio
performance, height, ground plane, data, data, data. The reason
manufacturer's can advertise the specs is because, in theory, that's
what the antenna will produce given perfect conditions.

Also be careful about the line-of-sight deal. FM also relies on
ground wave much as AM does - it's the reason you can receive an FM
station more than line-of-sight from the FM station antenna.

By the way, there is no such thing as a 9 db antenna unless you are
talking about a Yagi.

Later,

Tom

Yeah, but the point, as Dan brought out, is there is only about a 25%
increase in range when going with an 8 foot antenna of equal ratings and
positioned at the same height (from the waterline) on the boat, which turns
out to be a little more than a mile.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:58:04 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:27:22 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
thlink.net...
The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae)
you
will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further.

True, or close to it depending on the db gain you used. ;-)

Calculation for Range of an Antenna:

6db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.15= Range in
miles
9db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.52= Range in
miles

So we are talking a range of roughly 3 miles for the 4 foot vs 4.25 miles
for the 8 foot.

Not a big difference as you said.

You have to remember that the db figure is based on a free space
formula - in short, an imaginary antenna range - it's all math and
perfect performance.

In the real world it's not any where near 6 db for a variety of
reasons including standing waves, ground conditions, radio
performance, height, ground plane, data, data, data. The reason
manufacturer's can advertise the specs is because, in theory, that's
what the antenna will produce given perfect conditions.

Also be careful about the line-of-sight deal. FM also relies on
ground wave much as AM does - it's the reason you can receive an FM
station more than line-of-sight from the FM station antenna.

By the way, there is no such thing as a 9 db antenna unless you are
talking about a Yagi.

Yeah, but the point, as Dan brought out, is there is only about a 25%
increase in range when going with an 8 foot antenna of equal ratings and
positioned at the same height (from the waterline) on the boat, which turns
out to be a little more than a mile.

And my point was that it isn't even that much because of physical
limitations including, but not limited to, antenna height, length and
technical characteristics.

Now, if we want to discuss reception - that is a whole different
story. :)

Later,

Tom

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:27:22 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
thlink.net...
The difference in four feet (assuming the same gain the the antennae)
you
will only be able to communicate 1.18 miles further.

True, or close to it depending on the db gain you used. ;-)

Calculation for Range of an Antenna:

6db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.15= Range
in
miles
9db Antennas: Square Root of Height (in feet) above water x 1.52= Range
in
miles

So we are talking a range of roughly 3 miles for the 4 foot vs 4.25 miles
for the 8 foot.

Not a big difference as you said.

You have to remember that the db figure is based on a free space
formula - in short, an imaginary antenna range - it's all math and
perfect performance.

In the real world it's not any where near 6 db for a variety of
reasons including standing waves, ground conditions, radio
performance, height, ground plane, data, data, data. The reason
manufacturer's can advertise the specs is because, in theory, that's
what the antenna will produce given perfect conditions.

Also be careful about the line-of-sight deal. FM also relies on
ground wave much as AM does - it's the reason you can receive an FM
station more than line-of-sight from the FM station antenna.

By the way, there is no such thing as a 9 db antenna unless you are
talking about a Yagi.

Later,

Tom

Yeah, but the point, as Dan brought out, is there is only about a 25%
increase in range when going with an 8 foot antenna of equal ratings and
positioned at the same height (from the waterline) on the boat, which
turns out to be a little more than a mile.


Actually double the distance, as the other person probably has an 8'
antenna.