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Diesel troubleshooting
I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and
leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. In trying to identify the problem I've preformed the following test. 1) no (or very little) oil usage. 2) Both Engines run at 180 deg. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. No intake obstructions. No leaks detected any place from output of turbo up to and including the intake manifold. No detectable leaks in exhaust. No restrictions in oil return line. 4) Turbo (Holset H1C) compressor impeller can be pushed to contact the housing. (I would guess .100" movement) Holset calls for .012" - ..018" radial movement 5) Turbo axial movement .010 both sides. Holset calls for .025. 6) Blowby (taken with the Cummins recommend setup using calibrated 0-100"h20 gauge with dipstick hole blocked). at 1000rpm approx. 2" (both engines) but at 2600 rpm 0". (I've ordered a diesel compression tester hope to have it next weekend while I'm testing the compression, I'll get the injectors tested) These are the steps that I've taken so far. The most glaring result to me is the blowby. There is none detected at rated speed. I've talked to the Cummins dealer, he says that it can't be and recommend using a manometer instead of the gauge. The turbo's are bad according to the holset manual so I pulled them and brought them to be rebuilt (holset authorized). The mechanic looked at them when I dropped them off and While he didn't come out and say so, I got the impression that he thought they were ok. He will be taking them apart this week. OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. The question of why would both engines have the same problem comes up. My theory is; when changing fuel filters, I use starting fluid to get the fuel to start. The ether (or other chemicals in the starting fluid) has caused the seal to deteriorate. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. Thanking anyone in advance for advice, criticism or observations. Mike |
Diesel troubleshooting
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Diesel troubleshooting
Subject: Diesel troubleshooting
From: (Mike) Try this site. http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/Forums.cfm Capt. Bill |
Diesel troubleshooting
Mike wrote:
I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. The low turbo pressure & excessive radial movement is definitely a problem. New bearings? Good idea to get the injectors checked out too, though. FWIW I have a problem with a small diesel genset. I have rebuilt the fuel supply system, and the engine ran fine unloaded, but after a while started to bog down and then died. Sounds like a fuel restriction? Anyway I did not have time to troubleshoot it this past weekend, maybe next. Fair Skies Doug King |
Diesel troubleshooting
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:33:36 -0500, DSK wrote:
Mike wrote: I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. The low turbo pressure & excessive radial movement is definitely a problem. New bearings? Good idea to get the injectors checked out too, though. FWIW I have a problem with a small diesel genset. I have rebuilt the fuel supply system, and the engine ran fine unloaded, but after a while started to bog down and then died. Sounds like a fuel restriction? Anyway I did not have time to troubleshoot it this past weekend, maybe next. Is your generator a Kubota three cylinder? I had this exact same problem last year with the one here at the house and it was crap in the fuel tank and line - sludge actually. Later, Tom S. Woodstock, CT ----------- "Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question that no one ever thinks to ask." Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988) |
Diesel troubleshooting
I don't think I can give you any advice but I just have a question. I've
driven trucks all my life and by your post you say the problem might be unburnt fuel. That's what puzzles me. Every diesel I've driven always have a return line to the tank for unburnt fuel. Please forgive me if I completely ignorant on marine diesels but why would they not have a return line? I can tell you that the little amount of either that you used would not hurt anything. What kind of outside temps has your fuel been in? And how long has the diesel been in the tank? Have you switched fuel. Did you burn #1 or #2 diesel. Is it low sulfur diesel? I ask these questions because 4K hours to me is not a whole lot of hours. "Mike" wrote in message om... I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. In trying to identify the problem I've preformed the following test. 1) no (or very little) oil usage. 2) Both Engines run at 180 deg. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. No intake obstructions. No leaks detected any place from output of turbo up to and including the intake manifold. No detectable leaks in exhaust. No restrictions in oil return line. 4) Turbo (Holset H1C) compressor impeller can be pushed to contact the housing. (I would guess .100" movement) Holset calls for .012" - .018" radial movement 5) Turbo axial movement .010 both sides. Holset calls for .025. 6) Blowby (taken with the Cummins recommend setup using calibrated 0-100"h20 gauge with dipstick hole blocked). at 1000rpm approx. 2" (both engines) but at 2600 rpm 0". (I've ordered a diesel compression tester hope to have it next weekend while I'm testing the compression, I'll get the injectors tested) These are the steps that I've taken so far. The most glaring result to me is the blowby. There is none detected at rated speed. I've talked to the Cummins dealer, he says that it can't be and recommend using a manometer instead of the gauge. The turbo's are bad according to the holset manual so I pulled them and brought them to be rebuilt (holset authorized). The mechanic looked at them when I dropped them off and While he didn't come out and say so, I got the impression that he thought they were ok. He will be taking them apart this week. OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. The question of why would both engines have the same problem comes up. My theory is; when changing fuel filters, I use starting fluid to get the fuel to start. The ether (or other chemicals in the starting fluid) has caused the seal to deteriorate. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. Thanking anyone in advance for advice, criticism or observations. Mike |
Diesel troubleshooting
Excess fuel to the pumps goes to the return line. Unburnt fuel is fuel that
was injected and did not burn. Bad injector that does not atomize the fuel well, or injects too much fuel allows the fuel to not get burnt, and comes out the exhaust. Diesel semi's that are blowing black smoke are ejecting unburnt fuel. Bill "Dave R" wrote in message ... I don't think I can give you any advice but I just have a question. I've driven trucks all my life and by your post you say the problem might be unburnt fuel. That's what puzzles me. Every diesel I've driven always have a return line to the tank for unburnt fuel. Please forgive me if I completely ignorant on marine diesels but why would they not have a return line? I can tell you that the little amount of either that you used would not hurt anything. What kind of outside temps has your fuel been in? And how long has the diesel been in the tank? Have you switched fuel. Did you burn #1 or #2 diesel. Is it low sulfur diesel? I ask these questions because 4K hours to me is not a whole lot of hours. "Mike" wrote in message om... I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. In trying to identify the problem I've preformed the following test. 1) no (or very little) oil usage. 2) Both Engines run at 180 deg. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. No intake obstructions. No leaks detected any place from output of turbo up to and including the intake manifold. No detectable leaks in exhaust. No restrictions in oil return line. 4) Turbo (Holset H1C) compressor impeller can be pushed to contact the housing. (I would guess .100" movement) Holset calls for .012" - .018" radial movement 5) Turbo axial movement .010 both sides. Holset calls for .025. 6) Blowby (taken with the Cummins recommend setup using calibrated 0-100"h20 gauge with dipstick hole blocked). at 1000rpm approx. 2" (both engines) but at 2600 rpm 0". (I've ordered a diesel compression tester hope to have it next weekend while I'm testing the compression, I'll get the injectors tested) These are the steps that I've taken so far. The most glaring result to me is the blowby. There is none detected at rated speed. I've talked to the Cummins dealer, he says that it can't be and recommend using a manometer instead of the gauge. The turbo's are bad according to the holset manual so I pulled them and brought them to be rebuilt (holset authorized). The mechanic looked at them when I dropped them off and While he didn't come out and say so, I got the impression that he thought they were ok. He will be taking them apart this week. OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. The question of why would both engines have the same problem comes up. My theory is; when changing fuel filters, I use starting fluid to get the fuel to start. The ether (or other chemicals in the starting fluid) has caused the seal to deteriorate. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. Thanking anyone in advance for advice, criticism or observations. Mike |
Diesel troubleshooting
"Mike" wrote in message I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). Is this at all speeds, or only under wide open throttle? (okay, diesels aren't throttled, but I never picked up what the proper term for a diesel is....). If it is WOT only, is this slick so obvious you can see it going full speed? Other than the oil in the water, how are the engines running? Still giving you the same performace as before? How about fuel usage? 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. Is this measurement taken while under load, or while in neutral? I wouldn't expect the turbos to be working very hard unless the engines were heavily loaded. Engine RPM does not indicate turbo RPM. OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. Probably. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. Only if this problem is occuring at or near WOT conditions. If this problem happens at idle speeds (which is when I would expect you would be able to see the sheen in your wake) then it isn't the turbo. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. I don't follow you here. If there aren't any obstructions in the turbo intake (like an air filter) then there shouldn't be much vacuum generated. I am not familiar with this engine at all, so I don't understand how the crankcase pressure and turbo are related (the turbos I am familiar with have been mounted external to the engine and don't have any connection to the crankcase that could leak). If the problem were bad oil seals, however, then I would expect that there would be a loss of oil. If the leak went external then it should be making a mess in the engine room. If the leak went internal then I would expect it to just be burned, only showing up in the fact that you have to add oil often. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. When was the last time you had the injectors serviced? A diesel engine requires a little bit more than just squirting the fuel into the cylinder. Part of the injectors job is to atomize the fuel as it is injected so that it can burn. Vaporized fuel will ignite and burn. Liquid fuel will NOT burn. A worn injector can allow a portion of the fuel to enter as a liquid stream. Some of this will boil and burn, but portions of it will remain liquid, not burn and then go out the exhaust, causing your problem. The last time I had injectors serviced it cost me $125 an injector. I took them off, brought them down to a shop that specializes in diesel fuel systems. They had them about a day and then I picked them up and put them back on. An engine I was about ready to throw the towel in on ran great after that. If your injectors have 3000 hours on them, then I wouldn't hesitate to have them serviced. Rod |
Diesel troubleshooting
If the engines are turbo intercooled it might be that the intercooler is
partially blocked the induction air is too hot and has of low density giving incomplete combustion Good Luck!! Steve "Mike" wrote in message om... I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. In trying to identify the problem I've preformed the following test. 1) no (or very little) oil usage. 2) Both Engines run at 180 deg. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. No intake obstructions. No leaks detected any place from output of turbo up to and including the intake manifold. No detectable leaks in exhaust. No restrictions in oil return line. 4) Turbo (Holset H1C) compressor impeller can be pushed to contact the housing. (I would guess .100" movement) Holset calls for .012" - .018" radial movement 5) Turbo axial movement .010 both sides. Holset calls for .025. 6) Blowby (taken with the Cummins recommend setup using calibrated 0-100"h20 gauge with dipstick hole blocked). at 1000rpm approx. 2" (both engines) but at 2600 rpm 0". (I've ordered a diesel compression tester hope to have it next weekend while I'm testing the compression, I'll get the injectors tested) These are the steps that I've taken so far. The most glaring result to me is the blowby. There is none detected at rated speed. I've talked to the Cummins dealer, he says that it can't be and recommend using a manometer instead of the gauge. The turbo's are bad according to the holset manual so I pulled them and brought them to be rebuilt (holset authorized). The mechanic looked at them when I dropped them off and While he didn't come out and say so, I got the impression that he thought they were ok. He will be taking them apart this week. OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. The question of why would both engines have the same problem comes up. My theory is; when changing fuel filters, I use starting fluid to get the fuel to start. The ether (or other chemicals in the starting fluid) has caused the seal to deteriorate. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. Thanking anyone in advance for advice, criticism or observations. Mike |
Diesel troubleshooting
If you really wish to get inteligent answers, you may want to try
rec.boats.cruising. It's a moderated group with boaters. No O.T. posts. |
Diesel troubleshooting
The Cummins system senses manifold pressure so although your turbos need service (maybe) the lower pressure shouldn't mean excess fuel getting injected. Certainly get the unit injectors serviced, it's more likely poor fuel injection pressure or atomisation causing the unburnt fuel out the exhaust. Once the injectors are up to snuff, the new performance will probably bring the turbo pressure up a bit also. The turbo(s) have full floating plain bearings with lots of clearance/play in all directions so despite being more than "spec" if they're not allowing oil "in" they are not likely to be the root cause of your problem. K Mike wrote: I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). The port engine is the worst, but both engines have the same problem. In trying to identify the problem I've preformed the following test. 1) no (or very little) oil usage. 2) Both Engines run at 180 deg. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. No intake obstructions. No leaks detected any place from output of turbo up to and including the intake manifold. No detectable leaks in exhaust. No restrictions in oil return line. 4) Turbo (Holset H1C) compressor impeller can be pushed to contact the housing. (I would guess .100" movement) Holset calls for .012" - .018" radial movement 5) Turbo axial movement .010 both sides. Holset calls for .025. 6) Blowby (taken with the Cummins recommend setup using calibrated 0-100"h20 gauge with dipstick hole blocked). at 1000rpm approx. 2" (both engines) but at 2600 rpm 0". (I've ordered a diesel compression tester hope to have it next weekend while I'm testing the compression, I'll get the injectors tested) These are the steps that I've taken so far. The most glaring result to me is the blowby. There is none detected at rated speed. I've talked to the Cummins dealer, he says that it can't be and recommend using a manometer instead of the gauge. The turbo's are bad according to the holset manual so I pulled them and brought them to be rebuilt (holset authorized). The mechanic looked at them when I dropped them off and While he didn't come out and say so, I got the impression that he thought they were ok. He will be taking them apart this week. OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. The question of why would both engines have the same problem comes up. My theory is; when changing fuel filters, I use starting fluid to get the fuel to start. The ether (or other chemicals in the starting fluid) has caused the seal to deteriorate. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. Thanking anyone in advance for advice, criticism or observations. Mike |
Diesel troubleshooting
Mike wrote:
1) no (or very little) oil usage. Check for fuel dilution. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. Worn turbos are less efficient. Worn bearings will limit turbine speed and reduce output pressure. How much power or boat performance have you lost? Turbo output pressure is related to the load on the engine, and atmospheric pressure and temperature, not just rpm. There are a number of reasons why the pressure might be low ... what was it before you decided you had problems? Do you know what it was? The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. Are you positive it is fuel? Do the engines smoke black on acceleration and under heavy loads? What color is the smoke at low speeds? How much power have you lost? turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. ????? Crankcase pressure related to turbo vacuum? Sorry but you have a diesel, there is no "vacuum" created anywhere. There is a low pressure area in front of the compressor wheel but unless your air inlet is blocked there is no vacuum like you might see in a gasoline engine. The only effect you would see if you have bad oil seals in the turbo would be oil leaking into the charge air and being delivered to the cylinders or blue oil smoke in the exhaust. Check the condition of the intake piping to see if it is wet with oil, check the condition of the exhaust from the turbo after a period of idling to see if it is wet with oil. It sounds like that is irrelevant now that you have removed the turbos for rebuild but file that away for the future. Worn injectors will cause poor combustion and can create most of the symptoms you describe. As long as you have no starting problems you have no compression problems. You may have cylinder wear and worn injectors which lead to fuel dilution of the lube oil. This is cause for concern. Check with Cummimns for their recommendation on maximum allowable dilution limits. Good luck and get back to us with the results of your investigations. |
Diesel troubleshooting
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Diesel troubleshooting
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Is your generator a Kubota three cylinder? I had this exact same problem last year with the one here at the house and it was crap in the fuel tank and line - sludge actually. I think it's a Yanmar, it's a Onan 4.5kW genset. It's a job for this coming weekend, check the fuel flow. The filters are clear but it's possible that the suction line connection to the tank is blocked. Fair Skies Doug King |
Diesel troubleshooting
Subject: Diesel troubleshooting
From: (Florida Keyz) If you really wish to get inteligent answers, you may want to try rec.boats.cruising. It's a moderated group with boaters. No O.T. posts. Is this OT post going to be your standard response to all questions on rec.boats now? And by the way, rec.boats.cruising it NOT moderated. Capt. Bill |
Diesel troubleshooting
Florida Keyz,
I think you're wrong about this. The group is not moderated. True though about the number of OT posts. Paul "Florida Keyz" wrote in message ... If you really wish to get inteligent answers, you may want to try rec.boats.cruising. It's a moderated group with boaters. No O.T. posts. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"Rod McInnis" wrote in message ...
"Mike" wrote in message I have 2 Cummins 6bt5.7M (4k hours) that are beginning to smoke and leave a film at the exhaust (sea water output). - Is this at all speeds, or only under wide open throttle? (okay, diesels -aren't throttled, but I never picked up what the proper term for a diesel -is....). If it is WOT only, is this slick so obvious you can see it going -full speed? -Other than the oil in the water, how are the engines running? Still giving -you the same performace as before? How about fuel usage? They are both smoking at all speeds, port more than starbord. Other than the smoke (again, not exceesive but more that I would like) 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. - Is this measurement taken while under load, or while in neutral? I -wouldn't expect the turbos to be working very hard unless the engines were -heavily loaded. Engine RPM does not indicate turbo RPM. This is taken full throttle (I don't know what else to call it either) under load (about 16knts). OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. - Probably. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. -Only if this problem is occuring at or near WOT conditions. If this problem -happens at idle speeds (which is when I would expect you would be able to -see the sheen in your wake) then it isn't the turbo. there seems to be more smoke at idle speeds. That may be because the there is air movement. I talked to the turbo rebuild tech today, he found one bad turbo, (exhaust blade hitting the housing) the port side. He said the starboard was in fair condition. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. -I don't follow you here. -If there aren't any obstructions in the turbo intake (like an air filter) -then there shouldn't be much vacuum generated. I am not familiar with this -engine at all, so I don't understand how the crankcase pressure and turbo -are related (the turbos I am familiar with have been mounted external to the -engine and don't have any connection to the crankcase that could leak). -If the problem were bad oil seals, however, then I would expect that there -would be a loss of oil. If the leak went external then it should be making -a mess in the engine room. If the leak went internal then I would expect it -to just be burned, only showing up in the fact that you have to add oil -often. Yeah, I don't blame you for being confused, I worked out this elaborate scenerio to explain the lack of blowby. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. -When was the last time you had the injectors serviced? -A diesel engine requires a little bit more than just squirting the fuel into -the cylinder. Part of the injectors job is to atomize the fuel as it is -injected so that it can burn. Vaporized fuel will ignite and burn. Liquid -fuel will NOT burn. -A worn injector can allow a portion of the fuel to enter as a liquid stream. -Some of this will boil and burn, but portions of it will remain liquid, not -burn and then go out the exhaust, causing your problem. -The last time I had injectors serviced it cost me $125 an injector. I took -them off, brought them down to a shop that specializes in diesel fuel -systems. They had them about a day and then I picked them up and put them -back on. An engine I was about ready to throw the towel in on ran great -after that. -If your injectors have 3000 hours on them, then I wouldn't hesitate to have -them serviced. Whoa! 125/injector... I agree, I will be removing them as soon as I get the turbos back on. (hopefully this weekend). Thanks a lot for the response Rod. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"K. Smith" wrote in message ...
The Cummins system senses manifold pressure so although your turbos need service (maybe) the lower pressure shouldn't mean excess fuel getting injected. Certainly get the unit injectors serviced, it's more likely poor fuel injection pressure or atomisation causing the unburnt fuel out the exhaust. Once the injectors are up to snuff, the new performance will probably bring the turbo pressure up a bit also. The turbo(s) have full floating plain bearings with lots of clearance/play in all directions so despite being more than "spec" if they're not allowing oil "in" they are not likely to be the root cause of your problem. K thanks for the reply K. On of the turbo's did have serious a problem, but the other didn't. The injectors are next on the list. |
Diesel troubleshooting
Rick wrote in message ink.net...
Mike wrote: 1) no (or very little) oil usage. Check for fuel dilution. Thanks for the suggestion.I will add oil testing to the list. 3) Turbo output 2600rpm (port)16psi (starb) 18psi Cummins manual calls for 20-25psi. Worn turbos are less efficient. Worn bearings will limit turbine speed and reduce output pressure. How much power or boat performance have you lost? Turbo output pressure is related to the load on the engine, and atmospheric pressure and temperature, not just rpm. There are a number of reasons why the pressure might be low ... what was it before you decided you had problems? Do you know what it was? I first noticed the sheen this past November. The smoke has been increasing over the last year or so. As for power, I can't say that I've notice any change. Most of my cruising is done around 1800 rpm (8-9knts) The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. Are you positive it is fuel? Do the engines smoke black on acceleration and under heavy loads? What color is the smoke at low speeds? How much power have you lost? If I throttle up rapidly while underway, the smoke is black until the boat gets up on a plane, then to white (slight blue mabey). In all other conditions the smoke is whitish (slight blue mabey) turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. ????? Crankcase pressure related to turbo vacuum? Sorry but you have a diesel, there is no "vacuum" created anywhere. There is a low pressure area in front of the compressor wheel but unless your air inlet is blocked there is no vacuum like you might see in a gasoline engine. with the air filters on there is a slight vacuum that increases as the air filter gets dirty. The only effect you would see if you have bad oil seals in the turbo would be oil leaking into the charge air and being delivered to the cylinders or blue oil smoke in the exhaust. Check the condition of the intake piping to see if it is wet with oil, check the condition of the exhaust from the turbo after a period of idling to see if it is wet with oil. It sounds like that is irrelevant now that you have removed the turbos for rebuild but file that away for the future. Worn injectors will cause poor combustion and can create most of the symptoms you describe. As long as you have no starting problems you have no compression problems. You may have cylinder wear and worn injectors which lead to fuel dilution of the lube oil. This is cause for concern. Check with Cummimns for their recommendation on maximum allowable dilution limits. Good luck and get back to us with the results of your investigations. The next step will be to get the injectors looked at. Then the oil test. While I'm removing the injectors I will also get the compression. UPS just delivered my diesel compression tester. Thanks for the reply. Mike |
Diesel troubleshooting
Mike,
My boat has a simple 6-cil. 32 years old diesel engine without turbo charging. Last year after replacing the fuel filter and removing the air from the fuel system I forgot to (re)open the fuel return valve between the fule pump and the tank. Result: overpressure - to much fuel injected - smoke. After a couple of months this was detected, the valve opened and the situation back to normal. No damage as far as I can notice. my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Karl Denninger wrote in message ... In article , Mike wrote: OK, now for my diagnosis; The smoke and sheen that I see are unburned diesel. The cause is low turbo pressure not getting enough air into the cylinders. The low turbo pressure is Caused by bad oil seals in the turbos allowing crankcase pressure to be reduced by the vacuum of the turbo compressor. The question of why would both engines have the same problem comes up. My theory is; when changing fuel filters, I use starting fluid to get the fuel to start. The ether (or other chemicals in the starting fluid) has caused the seal to deteriorate. Anyone have any feedback? The engines are honey's. They have never failed in the 10 years we've owned the boat ( 3000hrs). The smoke is not a killer yet, but I would like to solve the problem before it gets worse. Thanking anyone in advance for advice, criticism or observations. Mike Pop-test the injectors. My bet is that you have one or more bad ones, given that you are seeing unburned fuel on the water. That is NOT caused by the turbo. Smoke can be, but unburned fuel in the exhaust at low speed is not turbo related. -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE! http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk DIVING! |
Diesel troubleshooting
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom"
wrote: Mike, My boat has a simple 6-cil. 32 years old diesel engine without turbo charging. Last year after replacing the fuel filter and removing the air from the fuel system I forgot to (re)open the fuel return valve between the fule pump and the tank. Result: overpressure - to much fuel injected - smoke. After a couple of months this was detected, the valve opened and the situation back to normal. No damage as far as I can notice. my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Diesel troubleshooting
John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Diesel troubleshooting
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom"
wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Diesel troubleshooting & fishing in NL
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:35:03 -0500, John H
wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" snip... John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Stolwijk is quitte near Rotterdam. Fishing in the sea can be done from several places, in the North Sea and in the so-called "Waddenzee" which is a shallow sea in the northern part of the country, bordered by a number of islands. Large parts of this "sea" fall dry at low tide. Under guidance, one can walk to some of the islands at low tide (partially ploughing through the mud). Fishing in the sea here is generally not done using fast fishing craft like Bertrams, Hatteras, etc. In general, large trawlers (say 20-30 meters long) are used, accomodating 10 to 30 people. Not as thrilling as shown on Discovery etc. but not expensive either. Some places where to book for sea fishing: Katwijk, IJmuiden, Den Helder, Lauwersoog. Henk |
Diesel troubleshooting & fishing in NL
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Diesel troubleshooting & fishing in NL
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:35:03 -0500, John H
wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" snip... John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Stolwijk is quitte near Rotterdam. Fishing in the sea can be done from several places, in the North Sea and in the so-called "Waddenzee" which is a shallow sea in the northern part of the country, bordered by a number of islands. Large parts of this "sea" fall dry at low tide. Under guidance, one can walk to some of the islands at low tide (partially ploughing through the mud). Fishing in the sea here is generally not done using fast fishing craft like Bertrams, Hatteras, etc. In general, large trawlers (say 20-30 meters long) are used, accomodating 10 to 30 people. Not as thrilling as shown on Discovery etc. but not expensive either. Some places where to book for sea fishing: Katwijk, IJmuiden, Den Helder, Lauwersoog. Henk |
Diesel troubleshooting
John H wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"basskisser" wrote in message om... John H wrote in message . .. On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. |
Diesel troubleshooting
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:54:47 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message . com... John H wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. The only time I ever fished for free was when my dad took me! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Diesel troubleshooting
"John H" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:54:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message . com... John H wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. The only time I ever fished for free was when my dad took me! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! LOL. If I figure how much a pound that salmon cost me, I would really be broke. last trip to Ft. Bragg, and Noyo Harbor fishing salmon a couple of weeks ago. 3 nights motel = $150 gas for truck = $120 food = $80 Total = $380 salmon weights and gear and bait on my boat = $30 (1 day fishing) 27# of uncleaned samon, about 12# of fillets. 380/12 = $31 / lb. Not including the 1 day fishing on a party boat to scout the area and no fish caught (but 10 nice dungeness crabs) $70 + tip and cooking crabs $20 for another $90 not figured into the salmon price. Not including boat costs, repair, depreciation, wear and tear on the tow Expedition = boat. Experience == priceless. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"Calif Bill" wrote in message thlink.net...
"John H" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:54:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message . com... John H wrote in message . .. On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. The only time I ever fished for free was when my dad took me! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! LOL. If I figure how much a pound that salmon cost me, I would really be broke. last trip to Ft. Bragg, and Noyo Harbor fishing salmon a couple of weeks ago. 3 nights motel = $150 gas for truck = $120 food = $80 Total = $380 Not all of us have to do that. $50.00 per night for a motel room? THAT must have been cozy.... |
Diesel troubleshooting
John H wrote in message
My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. The only time I ever fished for free was when my dad took me! John H That's odd, I can walk up to the sea, just about anywhere, and fish for free. I'm sorry you haven't figured out how to do that. I'm also sorry you've never fished for free unless you were riding on someone else's coat tails. Your fellow republican conservatives will dis-own you now for allowing someone else to subsidize your fishing. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:HXj8c.54797
I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. Bill, I've fished many, many, many hours for free. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:HXj8c.54797 I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. Bill, I've fished many, many, many hours for free. Even shore fishing, it is not free. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "Calif Bill" wrote in message thlink.net... "John H" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:54:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message . com... John H wrote in message . .. On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:26 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: John H wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:06 +0100, "Henk Overtoom" wrote: Mike, snip... my 2 cents, Henk Overtoom (Netherlands) Hey Henk! Where in the Netherlands are you? We're coming over to visit some friends this year (not by boat though). Hello John, I'm living in the NE part of the country, more specifically: N53º08'12'' E06º33'24'' If you want some info about (boating) here, please send me an e-mail. (remove the 'xyz' in the above adress, I forgot to insert some rubbish in my adress in the first post, waiting for spam...) regards, Henk John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! My friend lives about 5km south of Gouda, in Stolwyjk. He is not in to boating but into motorcycling. Are there places where one can pay to go fishing in the sea? John H I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. The only time I ever fished for free was when my dad took me! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! LOL. If I figure how much a pound that salmon cost me, I would really be broke. last trip to Ft. Bragg, and Noyo Harbor fishing salmon a couple of weeks ago. 3 nights motel = $150 gas for truck = $120 food = $80 Total = $380 Not all of us have to do that. $50.00 per night for a motel room? THAT must have been cozy.... Actually was a nice room. Clean, comfortable bed. I have had some very nice $50 rooms and have had crappy $200 rooms. Get outside of Atlanta Airport area, and you are probably hard pressed to find a $170 room. Bill |
Diesel troubleshooting
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:03:12 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message . com... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:HXj8c.54797 I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. Bill, I've fished many, many, many hours for free. Even shore fishing, it is not free. b'asskisser can probably just walk on the water and scoop up the fish with his hands. That's free! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Diesel troubleshooting
"John H" wrote in message ... On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:03:12 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message . com... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:HXj8c.54797 I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. Bill, I've fished many, many, many hours for free. Even shore fishing, it is not free. b'asskisser can probably just walk on the water and scoop up the fish with his hands. That's free! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Well, I am out of here to go look at a new camper for the new truck to be delivered soon. Cost money to fish even as a kid, riding my bike to the Berkeley Pier to fish, and no license required. Cost a dollar for a box if 3 frozen sardines. Plus hooks, line and rod and reel. And this was 50 years ago. Prices are up. Ask me about what it costs to fish for steelhead from shore. |
Diesel troubleshooting
"basskisser" wrote in message I'd think "fishing in the sea" would be free. I guess you have never gone fishing. Bill, I've fished many, many, many hours for free. What state do you live in? In California you have to buy a fishing license before you can fish anywhere. You have to catch a fair amount of fish to pay for that license! If you use old safety pins as hooks, a stick for a pole and dig your own earthworms and don't have to buy a fishing license then I suppose you can fish for free. Most people I know who fish spend incredible amounts of money doing it. It's cheaper to just buy your fish at the store. But then, that isn't the point. Rod |
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