1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

Have a 1973 Johnson 115v4. She had a intermitted starting problem that
has turned for the worse. It almost wont start at all now.

Last year we had the carbs rebuilt. This didnt really help. but did
help the fuel usage.

When shes running.. She runs great, smooth all that.. Its starting
thats the main problem and then sometimes at idle it runs rough and is
hesitant.

Starting- If the battery is full charged SOMETIMES it will start. but
it has to be a really fresh new battery. But when we try to start it
on the lake with a less than 100% fresh battery.. It wont start, wont
even fire when we spray ether into the intak. I can pull a plug and
its either weak or no fire. Last season we connected 2 batterys
together. This worked for awhile.. it would start every time for a
time. Now thats not working. And sometimes now not even jumping is
starting it. I replaced the starter last year too to make sure she was
cranking 100%.

I only have two ideas now that I think is the problem. Either the
powerpack is going out. Or the stator under the flywheel needs
replacing. Does anyone have any other thoughts on what this could be?

Thanks,
Nathan

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:42:44 GMT, wrote:

Have a 1973 Johnson 115v4. She had a intermitted starting problem that
has turned for the worse. It almost wont start at all now.

Last year we had the carbs rebuilt. This didnt really help. but did
help the fuel usage.

When shes running.. She runs great, smooth all that.. Its starting
thats the main problem and then sometimes at idle it runs rough and is
hesitant.

Starting- If the battery is full charged SOMETIMES it will start. but
it has to be a really fresh new battery. But when we try to start it
on the lake with a less than 100% fresh battery.. It wont start, wont
even fire when we spray ether into the intak. I can pull a plug and
its either weak or no fire. Last season we connected 2 batterys
together. This worked for awhile.. it would start every time for a
time. Now thats not working. And sometimes now not even jumping is
starting it. I replaced the starter last year too to make sure she was
cranking 100%.

I only have two ideas now that I think is the problem. Either the
powerpack is going out. Or the stator under the flywheel needs
replacing. Does anyone have any other thoughts on what this could be?

Could be a couple of things. Check the plug wires and see if there
are cracks or some leakage. Actually, you might want to purchase one
and just try it to see if the spark improves on that cylinder. Most
likely, it is the power pack although I can't remember if there is one
coil or one coil per cylinder on that model year Johnson. I suspect
the coil{s} [power pack{s}) just based on that dual battery deal.

Out of curiosity, have you checked compression? You might have a
couple of weak cylinders that could cause starting problems, although
there would be other indicators for that and you didn't mention any of
those.

I'd try the wires, then power pack route first - it seems the most
obvious.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

Basic Fishing Program:

10 - Fish
20 - Eat
30 - Sleep
40 - Goto 10

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:42:44 GMT, wrote:

Have a 1973 Johnson 115v4. She had a intermitted starting problem that
has turned for the worse. It almost wont start at all now.

Last year we had the carbs rebuilt. This didnt really help. but did
help the fuel usage.

When shes running.. She runs great, smooth all that.. Its starting
thats the main problem and then sometimes at idle it runs rough and is
hesitant.

Starting- If the battery is full charged SOMETIMES it will start. but
it has to be a really fresh new battery. But when we try to start it
on the lake with a less than 100% fresh battery.. It wont start, wont
even fire when we spray ether into the intak. I can pull a plug and
its either weak or no fire. Last season we connected 2 batterys
together. This worked for awhile.. it would start every time for a
time. Now thats not working. And sometimes now not even jumping is
starting it. I replaced the starter last year too to make sure she was
cranking 100%.

I only have two ideas now that I think is the problem. Either the
powerpack is going out. Or the stator under the flywheel needs
replacing. Does anyone have any other thoughts on what this could be?

Could be a couple of things. Check the plug wires and see if there
are cracks or some leakage. Actually, you might want to purchase one
and just try it to see if the spark improves on that cylinder. Most
likely, it is the power pack although I can't remember if there is one
coil or one coil per cylinder on that model year Johnson. I suspect
the coil{s} [power pack{s}) just based on that dual battery deal.

Out of curiosity, have you checked compression? You might have a
couple of weak cylinders that could cause starting problems, although
there would be other indicators for that and you didn't mention any of
those.

I'd try the wires, then power pack route first - it seems the most
obvious.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

Basic Fishing Program:

10 - Fish
20 - Eat
30 - Sleep
40 - Goto 10

Pull the flywheel and check the coils on the stator. My early 70's 'Rude
snowmobile used to have those coils expand and crack. Same as some of those
vintage O/B's. I got a couple of replacements off wrecking yard rudes.
Bill

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Wzc_b.4247
Pull the flywheel and check the coils on the stator. My early 70's 'Rude
snowmobile used to have those coils expand and crack. Same as some of those
vintage O/B's. I got a couple of replacements off wrecking yard rudes.
Bill

I grew up around snowmobiles, and never saw an Evinrude one. Do you
have any pictures, or links? I'd like to take a look at this Evinrude
snowmobile.

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

On 23 Feb 2004 07:33:09 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Wzc_b.4247
Pull the flywheel and check the coils on the stator. My early 70's 'Rude
snowmobile used to have those coils expand and crack. Same as some of those
vintage O/B's. I got a couple of replacements off wrecking yard rudes.
Bill

I grew up around snowmobiles, and never saw an Evinrude one. Do you
have any pictures, or links? I'd like to take a look at this Evinrude
snowmobile.

http://www.millville.org/Workshops_f...ools/snow.html

http://www.umit.maine.edu/~christoph...y/omc-info.htm



Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

Basic Fishing Program:

10 - Fish
20 - Eat
30 - Sleep
40 - Goto 10

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

Wankle powered. 35 hp about 80 mph in our version. They also changed the
carb system for 45 HP for the racing units. Was a great machine. Rode 2
adults comfortably and had a reverse gear. Somewhere we have pic's. My
kids loved driving that thing. But when you are 8-12 years old, is fun to
drive anything, including the dune buggy.
Bill

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 23 Feb 2004 07:33:09 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news:Wzc_b.4247
Pull the flywheel and check the coils on the stator. My early 70's
'Rude
snowmobile used to have those coils expand and crack. Same as some of
those
vintage O/B's. I got a couple of replacements off wrecking yard
rudes.
Bill

I grew up around snowmobiles, and never saw an Evinrude one. Do you
have any pictures, or links? I'd like to take a look at this Evinrude
snowmobile.

http://www.millville.org/Workshops_f...ools/snow.html

http://www.umit.maine.edu/~christoph...y/omc-info.htm



Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

Basic Fishing Program:

10 - Fish
20 - Eat
30 - Sleep
40 - Goto 10

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
Wankle powered. 35 hp about 80 mph in our version. They also changed the
carb system for 45 HP for the racing units. Was a great machine. Rode 2
adults comfortably and had a reverse gear. Somewhere we have pic's. My
kids loved driving that thing. But when you are 8-12 years old, is fun to
drive anything, including the dune buggy.
Bill

Seems now that I do recall Evinrude, and Johnson snowmobiles. But, I
certainly know that you didn't get 80mph out of a 35hp wankel. No way
in hell. I raced BoaSki's, the last one with a 440 Rotax, dual carbs.
It NEVER saw 80mph.

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
Wankle powered. 35 hp about 80 mph in our version. They also changed
the
carb system for 45 HP for the racing units. Was a great machine. Rode
2
adults comfortably and had a reverse gear. Somewhere we have pic's. My
kids loved driving that thing. But when you are 8-12 years old, is fun
to
drive anything, including the dune buggy.
Bill



For more info on older snowmobiles, including the Johnson and Evirudes, go
to http://www.vintagesnowmobiles.50megs.com/daves.html and
http://www.umit.maine.edu/~christopher_peary/omc.htm

About the hard starting V4 115hp, that motor needs at least 350 rpm at
cranking to generate enough juice to charge up the ignition system capacitor
and to trigger the sensor coils, telling the pack when to "fire". The sensor
coil to flywheel spacing is critical and there used to be a factory tool
that set that adjustment. It is also available from Rapair/CDI Electronics
that can be ordered by a marine professional. Most hard starting on those
motors is due to slow cranking rpm from worn starters, bad cables, or too
small capacity batteries. This is assuming that the motor is is good shape
internally, and that the fuel and choke systems are operational.

Bill Grannis
service manager

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
Wankle powered. 35 hp about 80 mph in our version. They also changed
the
carb system for 45 HP for the racing units. Was a great machine. Rode
2
adults comfortably and had a reverse gear. Somewhere we have pic's. My
kids loved driving that thing. But when you are 8-12 years old, is fun
to
drive anything, including the dune buggy.
Bill

Seems now that I do recall Evinrude, and Johnson snowmobiles. But, I
certainly know that you didn't get 80mph out of a 35hp wankel. No way
in hell. I raced BoaSki's, the last one with a 440 Rotax, dual carbs.
It NEVER saw 80mph.

Maybe the problem was FatassKisser.

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
Wankle powered. 35 hp about 80 mph in our version. They also changed
the
carb system for 45 HP for the racing units. Was a great machine. Rode
2
adults comfortably and had a reverse gear. Somewhere we have pic's. My
kids loved driving that thing. But when you are 8-12 years old, is fun
to
drive anything, including the dune buggy.
Bill

Seems now that I do recall Evinrude, and Johnson snowmobiles. But, I
certainly know that you didn't get 80mph out of a 35hp wankel. No way
in hell. I raced BoaSki's, the last one with a 440 Rotax, dual carbs.
It NEVER saw 80mph.

Maybe the problem was FatassKisser.

You are a lying sack of ****, Bill. There is absolutely NO WAY you had
a damned 35hp Wankel powered Evinrude snowmobile going 80mph. By the
way, for the record, at the time, I weighed less than 140 pounds, gear
included.

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

Last I knew Rapair would sell to anyone, not just the annointed.

-W

"Billgran" wrote in message news:aKH_b.111452

The sensor
coil to flywheel spacing is critical and there used to be a factory tool
that set that adjustment. It is also available from Rapair/CDI Electronics
that can be ordered by a marine professional.

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net...

Pull the flywheel and check the coils on the stator. My early 70's 'Rude
snowmobile used to have those coils expand and crack. Same as some of those
vintage O/B's. I got a couple of replacements off wrecking yard rudes.
Bill

Admittedly I'm not as familiar with the snow machines, but I think the
V4 has a different system. The cracking was a problem with some
under-flywheel high tension magneto coils of the vintage 1 and 2
cylinder JohnRude outboards and Lawnboy mowers, i.e. not the V4.
Problem would show up on or after a foggy night or morning when the
motor would not start or would miss till the moisture was heated out
of the affected coil, and/or it would start fine but after the coil
would get hot it would arc and misfire.

%mod%

1973 v4 115 Johnson starting problem... Ideas
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...

Seems now that I do recall Evinrude, and Johnson snowmobiles. But, I
certainly know that you didn't get 80mph out of a 35hp wankel. No way
in hell. I raced BoaSki's, the last one with a 440 Rotax, dual carbs.
It NEVER saw 80mph.

Maybe the problem was FatassKisser.

I like to do some maths. 35hp/80mph = 164 lb of force. This means if
the full 35 hp was used to go 80 mph, the drag force was 164 lb. By
comparison, a car that gets 32 miles per gallon at 80 mph is using
about 20 hp of its engine output to overcome a drag force of about 94
lb.

%mod%