use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/cost.html

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

More on alternative fuels
http://www.biodiesel.org/markets/mar/default.asp
http://www.afdc.doe.gov/altfuel/biodiesel.html

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/cost.html

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/cost.html

From your link: "The economic model indicated that Biodiesel blends could be
utilized at as little as 3.2 cents more per mile driven than petroleum
diesel * an amount easily offset by other savings."

It appears that bio-diesel is cheaper than dyno-diesel. What are the "other
savings?"

Bert

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/cost.html

From your link: "The economic model indicated that Biodiesel blends could
be
utilized at as little as 3.2 cents more per mile driven than petroleum
diesel * an amount easily offset by other savings."

It appears that bio-diesel is cheaper than dyno-diesel. What are the
"other
savings?"

Bert





Says that Bio-diesel in more expensive than dino. To the tune of about 30
cents a gallon on a 20 mile per gallon vehicle. Now since dino diesel is
about $1.60 gallon here in NorCal that is an about 19% increase in cost. Do
I have to change filters and oil more often? Does in lub the injector pump
properly?
Bill

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

From what I read there is less wear on the injection system.
A big plus for boaters and environment is cleaner exhaust that smells like
sort of like french fries cooking.
Also biodegrades quicker the dyno oil if spilled.
At least we have alternatives to OPEC
I dont know anything about the filter issue. I did see a program on the
discovery channel about the future of internal combustion and biodiesel is a
possible alternative fuel.


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/cost.html

From your link: "The economic model indicated that Biodiesel blends
could
be
utilized at as little as 3.2 cents more per mile driven than petroleum
diesel * an amount easily offset by other savings."

It appears that bio-diesel is cheaper than dyno-diesel. What are the
"other
savings?"

Bert





Says that Bio-diesel in more expensive than dino. To the tune of about 30
cents a gallon on a 20 mile per gallon vehicle. Now since dino diesel is
about $1.60 gallon here in NorCal that is an about 19% increase in cost.
Do
I have to change filters and oil more often? Does in lub the injector
pump
properly?
Bill

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

Biodiesel is old technology and can never be competitive on a large scale.
TCP is the future.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/home.html

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/cost.html

From your link: "The economic model indicated that Biodiesel blends could
be
utilized at as little as 3.2 cents more per mile driven than petroleum
diesel * an amount easily offset by other savings."

It appears that bio-diesel is cheaper than dyno-diesel. What are the
"other
savings?"

Bert

It should have read "is not cheaper".

Bert

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"Joe" wrote in message .. .
Biodiesel is old technology and can never be competitive on a large scale.
TCP is the future.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/home.html

Are you saying that biodiesel is somehow inferior because it's older technology?
If that were true, then petroleum based products would be useless?

How about the wheel? That's old technology.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

At least we have a renewable source of fuel, so when the oil runs out in
OPEC land, we can grow our own in farmlands, mostly from soybeans.
It is a good proven solution to the eventual loss of fossil fuel.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
.. .
Biodiesel is old technology and can never be competitive on a large
scale.
TCP is the future.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/home.html

Are you saying that biodiesel is somehow inferior because it's older
technology?
If that were true, then petroleum based products would be useless?

How about the wheel? That's old technology.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:05:34 -0500, Scott Downey wrote:

At least we have a renewable source of fuel, so when the oil runs out in
OPEC land, we can grow our own in farmlands, mostly from soybeans.
It is a good proven solution to the eventual loss of fossil fuel.

Not really. Modern agriculture is heavily petroleum intensive
(pesticides, fertilizers, etc). The harvest of most crops use more energy
than the potential return. We have become far to dependent on oil. If
there is even a small amount of truth in what the doomsayers are saying,
our grandchildren face a very serious problem.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
At least we have a renewable source of fuel, so when the oil runs out in
OPEC land, we can grow our own in farmlands, mostly from soybeans.
It is a good proven solution to the eventual loss of fossil fuel.


You could never grow enough to satisfy the demand. It is not a solution, it
is only "feel good" technology and a waste of money.

The beauty of TCP is that it coverts waste products into fuels, fertilizers,
minerals, and gases, and the whole process is powered by fuels produced in
the process.
The process is so clean that the plants do not even need permits.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:46:46 +0000, Joe wrote:

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From: "Joe"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
References:



Subject: use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
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"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
At least we have a renewable source of fuel, so when the oil runs out in
OPEC land, we can grow our own in farmlands, mostly from soybeans.
It is a good proven solution to the eventual loss of fossil fuel.


You could never grow enough to satisfy the demand. It is not a solution, it
is only "feel good" technology and a waste of money.

The beauty of TCP is that it coverts waste products into fuels, fertilizers,
minerals, and gases, and the whole process is powered by fuels produced in
the process.
The process is so clean that the plants do not even need permits.


Just like domestic garbage so-called recycling, it's a scam after mostly
tax payers money fromn weak govt & quasi govt instrumentalities.

Cost the GDP, jobs & the enviroment dearly, don't fall for it.

K

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Just like domestic garbage so-called recycling, it's a scam after mostly
tax payers money fromn weak govt & quasi govt instrumentalities.

Cost the GDP, jobs & the enviroment dearly, don't fall for it.

K

Tell that to Butterball, they power a whole factory solely on turkey innards
and bones.
They use NO electricity from any other source and have surplus power they
sell back to the local power company.
I'm sure there are many scams out there that promise energy from waste, but
this isnt one of them.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:05:34 -0500, Scott Downey wrote:

At least we have a renewable source of fuel, so when the oil runs out in
OPEC land, we can grow our own in farmlands, mostly from soybeans.
It is a good proven solution to the eventual loss of fossil fuel.

Not really. Modern agriculture is heavily petroleum intensive
(pesticides, fertilizers, etc). The harvest of most crops use more energy
than the potential return. We have become far to dependent on oil. If
there is even a small amount of truth in what the doomsayers are saying,
our grandchildren face a very serious problem.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/


Also see the book "Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage" for
the original source.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Mark Browne

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:49:35 +0000, Joe wrote:


"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Just like domestic garbage so-called recycling, it's a scam after mostly
tax payers money fromn weak govt & quasi govt instrumentalities.

Cost the GDP, jobs & the enviroment dearly, don't fall for it.

K

Tell that to Butterball, they power a whole factory solely on turkey innards
and bones.
They use NO electricity from any other source and have surplus power they
sell back to the local power company.
I'm sure there are many scams out there that promise energy from waste, but
this isnt one of them.

Joe,

I'm not familiar with that example but certainly wouldn't just accept their
claims.

If these people take in turkeys & produce processed (lots of steam &
heat??) product out the other end, then try to claim they do it without
any energy inputs??? indeed say they have excess?? well they certainly
know how to process investor turkeys that's for su-)

These claims never ever stand up to independant examinations, yes there
are the rare times when an expensive capital intensive arrangement can
"seem" to get something for nothing, but as with everything else in life,
that just doesn't happen. Reshuffles are easy but even a small net gain is very
tricky.

The best that can be expected is a shuffling on costs (economic &
environmental) from one location/payer/class to another.

A bit like how the democrats operate, they rob risk taker hard working
paul to pay lay about liar peter, then try to claim they've increased
the whole:-)

When it happens & I agree it will, then we'll all know about it because
they'll be a rush to adopt it.

K

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

K. Smith wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:49:35 +0000, Joe wrote:


"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Just like domestic garbage so-called recycling, it's a scam after mostly
tax payers money fromn weak govt & quasi govt instrumentalities.

Cost the GDP, jobs & the enviroment dearly, don't fall for it.

K

Tell that to Butterball, they power a whole factory solely on turkey innards
and bones.
They use NO electricity from any other source and have surplus power they
sell back to the local power company.
I'm sure there are many scams out there that promise energy from waste, but
this isnt one of them.

Joe,

I'm not familiar with that example but certainly wouldn't just accept their
claims.


You're actually not familiar with much of anything, but you sure try
hard to give the impression.



If these people take in turkeys & produce processed (lots of steam &
heat??) product out the other end, then try to claim they do it without
any energy inputs??? indeed say they have excess?? well they certainly
know how to process investor turkeys that's for su-)

These claims never ever stand up to independant examinations,


As a matter of fact, there are any number of turkey and chicken
processing plants that have adopted and innovated technology that allows
them to use the byproducts of the animals they slaughter as the "fuel"
to feed their energy needs.

Most of these processes are a bit more advanced technologically than
buying someone's already built diesel engine and welding or superglueing
it onto a kit-bashed outboard motor lower unit and then claiming you've
invented some new product.

There are plenty of articles available on converting the by-products of
food processing into energy. It wouldn't surprise me if some clever boys
have figured out how to generate enough for self-sufficiency.

What the hell do you *really* know, Ms. Smith? Most of what you post
reads as if you're drunk, high or just generally ****ed at how the world
has passed you by.

Your best bet would be to enroll in a a high school level course in
standard English.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:49:35 +0000, Joe wrote:


"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Just like domestic garbage so-called recycling, it's a scam after
mostly
tax payers money fromn weak govt & quasi govt instrumentalities.

Cost the GDP, jobs & the enviroment dearly, don't fall for it.

K

Tell that to Butterball, they power a whole factory solely on turkey
innards
and bones.
They use NO electricity from any other source and have surplus power
they
sell back to the local power company.
I'm sure there are many scams out there that promise energy from
waste, but
this isnt one of them.

Joe,

I'm not familiar with that example but certainly wouldn't just accept
their
claims.

If these people take in turkeys & produce processed (lots of steam &
heat??) product out the other end, then try to claim they do it
without
any energy inputs??? indeed say they have excess?? well they
certainly
know how to process investor turkeys that's for su-)

These claims never ever stand up to independant examinations, yes
there
are the rare times when an expensive capital intensive arrangement can
"seem" to get something for nothing, but as with everything else in
life,
that just doesn't happen. Reshuffles are easy but even a small net
gain is very
tricky.

The best that can be expected is a shuffling on costs (economic &
environmental) from one location/payer/class to another.

A bit like how the democrats operate, they rob risk taker hard working
paul to pay lay about liar peter, then try to claim they've increased
the whole:-)

When it happens & I agree it will, then we'll all know about it
because
they'll be a rush to adopt it.

K

They probably take in live turkeys, and output frozen turkeys in plastic
bags. Can they make enough energy from burning the feet, heads,
feathers, guts? Hard to say.

del cecchi

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:37:19 -0600, del cecchi wrote:


They probably take in live turkeys, and output frozen turkeys in plastic
bags. Can they make enough energy from burning the feet, heads,
feathers, guts? Hard to say.

http://www.mindfully.org/Air/2003/Bu...rgy16may03.htm

Although, it's not without critics:

http://www.energyjustice.net/fibrowatch/toxics.html

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...

Although, it's not without critics:

http://www.energyjustice.net/fibrowatch/toxics.html

What the hell does this have to do with the TCP process?
This link focuses on incineration, not TCP.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 04:38:02 +0000, Joe wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...

Although, it's not without critics:

http://www.energyjustice.net/fibrowatch/toxics.html

What the hell does this have to do with the TCP process?
This link focuses on incineration, not TCP.

That link was embedded on the other link's page. On further reading, the
TCP process looks interesting and promising, but it is difficult to find
information on it that doesn't have a promotional bent. Conceptually, I
can understand the process, but I am curious as to how the contaminants
are removed.

use Biodiesel, OPEC get a life.
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 04:38:02 +0000, Joe wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...

Although, it's not without critics:

http://www.energyjustice.net/fibrowatch/toxics.html

What the hell does this have to do with the TCP process?
This link focuses on incineration, not TCP.

That link was embedded on the other link's page. On further reading, the
TCP process looks interesting and promising, but it is difficult to find
information on it that doesn't have a promotional bent.
Conceptually, I can understand the process, but I am curious as to how the
contaminants
are removed.

According to CWT's site:

Hazardous Waste-
"These are the deadliest of waste streams on our planet. In the United
States alone, over 26,000 hazardous waste sites are buried underground. TCP
is a safer and less costly way to address this waste stream, rather than the
current method of disposal, which is incineration. PCB's, dioxins, heavy
metals, pathogens, and other contaminants are destroyed in the TCP."

"TCP reforms even heavy metals into oxides that are safe and non-leachable
and pass TCLP (leaching) standards."