Ted wrote in message ...
Gary S. wrote in message ...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:40:37 +0100, "Paul"
wrote:

Bought a Legend not long ago, just bought Mapsource Metroguide. I have
just
tried to download a map to the Legend for the first time and I get an
error
message that says if I continue I will erase map data pre-programmed by
Garmin. It then says that I can retreive pre-progranmmed data by going to
Garmin website. What does this mean? I have no routes or waypoints on the
legend, only map present is Europe basemap which I thought could not be
overwritten, am I wrong?

Any time you start a session of map loading, all previous contents of
the map memory (completely seperate from the waypoint/route/track
memory) are erased.

The basemap, as you say, cannot be changed or erased.

The Legend is shipped with a database of Marine POI (points of
interest) loaded into the map memory.
" The standard map coverage includes:
1. Cities with population 200K and above worldwide
2. Nautical navaids for North and South America"

If you ever wish to have the Marine POI data back, you can download
the file from the Garmin site. Not finding it there right now, but
many people have it, and I think it is in the files of the Legend
Yahoo group.


It seems like most of the Garmin Marine POI data consists of an incomplete
set of channel buoys.

This sounds like a great time for a mild philosophical rant about the role
of buoys during marine navigation with GPS.

Buoys were invented to help skippers find and stay in the channel. GPS is
an
even better tool for helping a skipper find and stay in the channel. Why
then do GPS manufacturers show all those buoys when what boat pilots really
want is to know where the center of the channel is? A simple route line
down
the middle of the channel with a waypoint at each turn is so much better
than a collection of a hundred obscure buoy locations. My thesis is that
marking buoys with GPS or showing buoy locations on a GPS map is a complete
waste of time and only done by skippers trying to cling to old navigation
technology. It seems to me that channel centerlines, harbor entrances and
underwater hazards are the only things a boat captain needs to see on his
GPS. Throw all those buoy POIs away! They just clutter up your display.
I plan my yacht adventures by going to

http://map.marineplanner.com/mapping...chartindex.cfm

and identifying waypoints by noting the lat lon from the nautical charts
and
then making a route down the center of all the channels I intend to
navigate. I also make a proximity waypoint for any hazards I wish to avoid
along the way. I find this to be much more useful than the marine POI data
from Garmin.

If I was to get more serious about marine navigation then of course I would
go out and get the Garmin Blue Charts but for now the above technique is
perfectly adequate for pleasure boating.

and when the batteries die? or your handheld gps goes overboard? or your
fixed mount has a problem with the connection to the external antenna?

and personally i'd rather know where each edge of the channel is rater than
the center. The danger lies at the edge of the channel.





"Ted" wrote in message
ink.net...

Ted wrote in message ...
Gary S. wrote in message ...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:40:37 +0100, "Paul"
wrote:

Bought a Legend not long ago, just bought Mapsource Metroguide. I have
just
tried to download a map to the Legend for the first time and I get an
error
message that says if I continue I will erase map data pre-programmed by
Garmin. It then says that I can retreive pre-progranmmed data by going
to
Garmin website. What does this mean? I have no routes or waypoints on
the
legend, only map present is Europe basemap which I thought could not be
overwritten, am I wrong?

Any time you start a session of map loading, all previous contents of
the map memory (completely seperate from the waypoint/route/track
memory) are erased.

The basemap, as you say, cannot be changed or erased.

The Legend is shipped with a database of Marine POI (points of
interest) loaded into the map memory.
" The standard map coverage includes:
1. Cities with population 200K and above worldwide
2. Nautical navaids for North and South America"

If you ever wish to have the Marine POI data back, you can download
the file from the Garmin site. Not finding it there right now, but
many people have it, and I think it is in the files of the Legend
Yahoo group.


It seems like most of the Garmin Marine POI data consists of an incomplete
set of channel buoys.

This sounds like a great time for a mild philosophical rant about the role
of buoys during marine navigation with GPS.

Buoys were invented to help skippers find and stay in the channel. GPS is
an
even better tool for helping a skipper find and stay in the channel. Why
then do GPS manufacturers show all those buoys when what boat pilots
really
want is to know where the center of the channel is? A simple route line
down
the middle of the channel with a waypoint at each turn is so much better
than a collection of a hundred obscure buoy locations. My thesis is that
marking buoys with GPS or showing buoy locations on a GPS map is a
complete
waste of time and only done by skippers trying to cling to old navigation
technology. It seems to me that channel centerlines, harbor entrances and
underwater hazards are the only things a boat captain needs to see on his
GPS. Throw all those buoy POIs away! They just clutter up your display.
I plan my yacht adventures by going to

http://map.marineplanner.com/mapping...chartindex.cfm

and identifying waypoints by noting the lat lon from the nautical charts
and
then making a route down the center of all the channels I intend to
navigate. I also make a proximity waypoint for any hazards I wish to avoid
along the way. I find this to be much more useful than the marine POI data
from Garmin.

If I was to get more serious about marine navigation then of course I
would
go out and get the Garmin Blue Charts but for now the above technique is
perfectly adequate for pleasure boating.

scott wrote in message
and when the batteries die? or your handheld gps goes overboard? or your
fixed mount has a problem with the connection to the external antenna?

You seem to not be understanding the conversation.

If your GPS reciever fails in any way then you will not be able to track
anything,
buoys or channel centerlines. Thus, your response makes no sense.

Let me try again.

If you want to find the channel using the buoys then fine, go ahead and look
outside the boat and find the buoys and use them to figure out where the
channel is. If you want to use GPS to track the location of the channel
then that is also fine. Using both is even better.

The point being made is that there is no reason to ever need to track the
buoys with the GPS. You should track the channel with the GPS, not the
buoys.



and personally i'd rather know where each edge of the channel is rater than
the center. The danger lies at the edge of the channel.


Fine, make two lines down the edges instead of one line down the center.
GPS is quite flexible in that way.






"Ted" wrote in message


This sounds like a great time for a mild philosophical rant about the
role
of buoys during marine navigation with GPS.

Buoys were invented to help skippers find and stay in the channel. GPS is
an
even better tool for helping a skipper find and stay in the channel. Why
then do GPS manufacturers show all those buoys when what boat pilots
really
want is to know where the center of the channel is? A simple route line
down
the middle of the channel with a waypoint at each turn is so much better
than a collection of a hundred obscure buoy locations. My thesis is that
marking buoys with GPS or showing buoy locations on a GPS map is a
complete
waste of time and only done by skippers trying to cling to old navigation
technology. It seems to me that channel centerlines, harbor entrances and
underwater hazards are the only things a boat captain needs to see on his
GPS. Throw all those buoy POIs away! They just clutter up your display.
I plan my yacht adventures by going to

http://map.marineplanner.com/mapping...chartindex.cfm

and identifying waypoints by noting the lat lon from the nautical charts
and
then making a route down the center of all the channels I intend to
navigate. I also make a proximity waypoint for any hazards I wish to
avoid
along the way. I find this to be much more useful than the marine POI
data
from Garmin.

If I was to get more serious about marine navigation then of course I
would
go out and get the Garmin Blue Charts but for now the above technique is
perfectly adequate for pleasure boating.

I've got several routes loaded in my Garmin eTrex Mariner; some down the
middle of the channel and some going from NavAid to Navaid.
Some say you shouldn't use a NavAid as a waypoint. Well, first, I always
have a lookout and second, when relying on radar and GPS to navigate I'm
going slow, and even slower when approaching objects.

"Ted" wrote in message
ink.net...

Ted wrote in message ...
Gary S. wrote in message ...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:40:37 +0100, "Paul"
wrote:

Bought a Legend not long ago, just bought Mapsource Metroguide. I have
just
tried to download a map to the Legend for the first time and I get an
error
message that says if I continue I will erase map data pre-programmed by
Garmin. It then says that I can retreive pre-progranmmed data by going
to
Garmin website. What does this mean? I have no routes or waypoints on
the
legend, only map present is Europe basemap which I thought could not be
overwritten, am I wrong?

Any time you start a session of map loading, all previous contents of
the map memory (completely seperate from the waypoint/route/track
memory) are erased.

The basemap, as you say, cannot be changed or erased.

The Legend is shipped with a database of Marine POI (points of
interest) loaded into the map memory.
" The standard map coverage includes:
1. Cities with population 200K and above worldwide
2. Nautical navaids for North and South America"

If you ever wish to have the Marine POI data back, you can download
the file from the Garmin site. Not finding it there right now, but
many people have it, and I think it is in the files of the Legend
Yahoo group.


It seems like most of the Garmin Marine POI data consists of an incomplete
set of channel buoys.

This sounds like a great time for a mild philosophical rant about the role
of buoys during marine navigation with GPS.

Buoys were invented to help skippers find and stay in the channel. GPS is
an
even better tool for helping a skipper find and stay in the channel. Why
then do GPS manufacturers show all those buoys when what boat pilots
really
want is to know where the center of the channel is? A simple route line
down
the middle of the channel with a waypoint at each turn is so much better
than a collection of a hundred obscure buoy locations. My thesis is that
marking buoys with GPS or showing buoy locations on a GPS map is a
complete
waste of time and only done by skippers trying to cling to old navigation
technology. It seems to me that channel centerlines, harbor entrances and
underwater hazards are the only things a boat captain needs to see on his
GPS. Throw all those buoy POIs away! They just clutter up your display.
I plan my yacht adventures by going to

http://map.marineplanner.com/mapping...chartindex.cfm

and identifying waypoints by noting the lat lon from the nautical charts
and
then making a route down the center of all the channels I intend to
navigate. I also make a proximity waypoint for any hazards I wish to avoid
along the way. I find this to be much more useful than the marine POI data
from Garmin.

If I was to get more serious about marine navigation then of course I
would
go out and get the Garmin Blue Charts but for now the above technique is
perfectly adequate for pleasure boating.

William G. Andersen wrote in message ...
I've got several routes loaded in my Garmin eTrex Mariner; some down the
middle of the channel and some going from NavAid to Navaid.
Some say you shouldn't use a NavAid as a waypoint. Well, first, I always
have a lookout and second, when relying on radar and GPS to navigate I'm
going slow, and even slower when approaching objects.



what good is a route that you can't follow because you will hit the buoys?

did you make a route to the buoys because for some reason a route down the
center of the channel was too much trouble to make?

Nope. I like the idea of going buoy to buoy so that I can actually see how
I'm doing. When the fog's thick you can't see the buoys from the center of
the channel. Big ships that are constrained by draft have to stay in the
channel, a little boat like mine can run along the edge.
And in case you're wondering, yes, I've been in fog like that several times.
We slow down, hoist a radar reflector, turn on the nav lights, sound the
horn as required and use radar, GPS, and as many eyeballs as we have for
lookout. We always have a chart in use at the helm station - we normally
navigate using buoys and landmarks, and know where we are. An option would
be to get out of the channel and drop anchor - in most places I could beach
the boat. We've never thought it was necessary to do that.

"Ted" wrote in message
k.net...

William G. Andersen wrote in message ...
I've got several routes loaded in my Garmin eTrex Mariner; some down the
middle of the channel and some going from NavAid to Navaid.
Some say you shouldn't use a NavAid as a waypoint. Well, first, I always
have a lookout and second, when relying on radar and GPS to navigate I'm
going slow, and even slower when approaching objects.



what good is a route that you can't follow because you will hit the buoys?

did you make a route to the buoys because for some reason a route down the
center of the channel was too much trouble to make?

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:45:49 -0800, "William G. Andersen"
wrote:

Nope. I like the idea of going buoy to buoy so that I can actually see how
I'm doing. When the fog's thick you can't see the buoys from the center of
the channel. Big ships that are constrained by draft have to stay in the
channel, a little boat like mine can run along the edge.
And in case you're wondering, yes, I've been in fog like that several times.

I've made the run back to Westerly from The Race in heavy fog just
using a chart plotter - it's tough slogging along, but you eventually
get where you need to go.

Then again, I don't really have to worry about shipping because I can
hug the shore line pretty close if I have to.

Later,

Tom