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basskisser March 23rd 05 06:52 PM


NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year

fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At

that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home

off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......


Boy, you sure put a lot of thought into that reply. Sorry I taxed

your
brain so much.


The mortgage companies PUSH interest only loans to consumers. Care

to
venture WHY????


Because they have a non-decreasing revenue stream coming in while the


principal is outstanding. So what. It's good for the bank...but

even
better for me.

Are you smart enough to do the math on exactly how much *principle*

you're
actually paying in the first 5 years of an $800000 mortgage at 4.25%?


Yes.

I'll get you started:


No need.

Payment (principle+interest)= $3935.52
Payment (interest only)= $2833.33

(Answer= $66,131.20)

So at the end of 5 years, I'd owe $800,000...and the guy who paid

principle
owes $733, 868.80.

Keep in mind that I'm putting that $66,131.20 into my wife's and my

Simple
IRA's instead of towards the principle of the house. Because it's a


qualified plan, I saved $20k in Federal taxes over the schmuck who

used the
money to pay down the principle on his home.

At the end of 5 years, he paid an extra $20k in taxes to the Feds,

and owes
$733, 868.80 on the home.

At the end of 5 years, I put $66k into my simple IRA and paid $20k

less to
the government. Even if the house doesn't appreciate, and I get

*ZERO*
return on my investment in the Simple IRA, my net worth is ahead of

his by
$20k. If I get even a nominal 5% return on my Simple IRA per year,

I'm even
further ahead of the other guy.

Paying principle on a loan is an opportunity cost.


Again, mortgage companies are going out of their way to qualify people
for interest only loans, and they wouldn't qualify for a conventional
loan. Are you smart enough to know WHY mortgage brokers are pushing
interest only loans so hard? Is it for YOUR welfare? Hell, might as
well go one more. If you don't like paying down the equity in a home,
get a reverse mortgage! Also, you see, when you get done in five years,
you'll still have to get a mortgage for the original amount. Someone
with a decent ARM would have at least some principal paid off, so his
loan amount would be lower than yours, while his payments wouldn't be
that much different for the first five years.


basskisser March 23rd 05 06:54 PM


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year

fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At

that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home

off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.


My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

I don't know NYOB's situation, other than what I've read. I *do* know

that he
has given thought to his situation. That, in itself, is more than a

lot of folks
do.

His plan makes sense.

There may be those in the universe who have a better occupation,

better place to
live, and are better able to express their point of view. From my

perspective,
you haven't shown that you are one of them. Of course, that's just my

opinion.
--
John H


So, if you pay someone to use their money, ie, a loan, it's superior to
using your OWN money, and not having to pay interest rates? The bottom
line is, if someone is taking money from you month after month, you are
losing money.


basskisser March 23rd 05 06:57 PM


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year

fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At

that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home

off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.


My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.


Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


John H March 23rd 05 07:01 PM

On 23 Mar 2005 10:54:06 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.


My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

I don't know NYOB's situation, other than what I've read. I *do* know

that he
has given thought to his situation. That, in itself, is more than a

lot of folks
do.

His plan makes sense.

There may be those in the universe who have a better occupation,

better place to
live, and are better able to express their point of view. From my

perspective,
you haven't shown that you are one of them. Of course, that's just my

opinion.
--
John H


So, if you pay someone to use their money, ie, a loan, it's superior to
using your OWN money, and not having to pay interest rates? The bottom
line is, if someone is taking money from you month after month, you are
losing money.


I just bought a new car, financed at 3.9%. I could have paid cash for the car,
but instead chose to put the money in a five year CD paying 5%. In this case I'm
paying someone (the credit union) to use its money while it's paying me *more*
to use my money.

Yes, depending on the circumstances, it may be 'superior' to pay for the use of
someone else's money.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

John H March 23rd 05 07:07 PM

On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.


My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.


Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to pay off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

P.Fritz March 23rd 05 07:18 PM


"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:54:06 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

I don't know NYOB's situation, other than what I've read. I *do* know

that he
has given thought to his situation. That, in itself, is more than a

lot of folks
do.

His plan makes sense.

There may be those in the universe who have a better occupation,

better place to
live, and are better able to express their point of view. From my

perspective,
you haven't shown that you are one of them. Of course, that's just my

opinion.
--
John H


So, if you pay someone to use their money, ie, a loan, it's superior to
using your OWN money, and not having to pay interest rates? The bottom
line is, if someone is taking money from you month after month, you are
losing money.


I just bought a new car, financed at 3.9%. I could have paid cash for the
car,
but instead chose to put the money in a five year CD paying 5%. In this
case I'm
paying someone (the credit union) to use its money while it's paying me
*more*
to use my money.

Yes, depending on the circumstances, it may be 'superior' to pay for the
use of
someone else's money.
--
John H


And in the case of those of us that are in the higher tier tax brackets,
the tax deduction for the interest on your primary residence make the
borrowed money even cheaper.

A mortgage at 5% has a net cost of 3% in the top bracket.......a point that
constantly goes over asslicker's head.


Another good reason for borrowing.........
I have clients that own many commercial properties.........they are
constantly refinancing the properties (each is an L.L.C.) pulling as much
equity as they can out of them, and distributing it to the partners. In
that way, the L.L.C. has little to no assests in the event of a lawsuit.




"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."




P.Fritz March 23rd 05 07:22 PM


"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.


Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?


A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."




John H March 23rd 05 08:34 PM

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?


A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.



I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

P.Fritz March 23rd 05 09:02 PM


"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?


A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.



I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall about this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the "King of the NG
idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it may not make
economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see the economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a month to your
mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k (pretax).........you take
the 200 a month as income, at 33% and you netting 130 to the
principal..(likely less than that because of medicare tax and and state and
local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2% of that amount..........in the
meantime you could have taken the entire 200 pretax in a 401 or SEP even at
a modest return of 5% a year.....you are going to be even further ahead.


--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."




NOYB March 23rd 05 09:13 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......


Boy, you sure put a lot of thought into that reply. Sorry I taxed
your
brain so much.

The mortgage companies PUSH interest only loans to consumers. Care

to
venture WHY????


Because they have a non-decreasing revenue stream coming in while the


principal is outstanding. So what. It's good for the bank...but

even
better for me.

Are you smart enough to do the math on exactly how much *principle*

you're
actually paying in the first 5 years of an $800000 mortgage at 4.25%?


Yes.

I'll get you started:


No need.

Payment (principle+interest)= $3935.52
Payment (interest only)= $2833.33

(Answer= $66,131.20)

So at the end of 5 years, I'd owe $800,000...and the guy who paid

principle
owes $733, 868.80.

Keep in mind that I'm putting that $66,131.20 into my wife's and my

Simple
IRA's instead of towards the principle of the house. Because it's a


qualified plan, I saved $20k in Federal taxes over the schmuck who

used the
money to pay down the principle on his home.

At the end of 5 years, he paid an extra $20k in taxes to the Feds,

and owes
$733, 868.80 on the home.

At the end of 5 years, I put $66k into my simple IRA and paid $20k

less to
the government. Even if the house doesn't appreciate, and I get

*ZERO*
return on my investment in the Simple IRA, my net worth is ahead of

his by
$20k. If I get even a nominal 5% return on my Simple IRA per year,

I'm even
further ahead of the other guy.

Paying principle on a loan is an opportunity cost.


Again, mortgage companies are going out of their way to qualify people
for interest only loans, and they wouldn't qualify for a conventional
loan.


That's bull****. The lenders use different debt-to-income ratios for
interest only loans, but all of the other lending requirements are the same.


Are you smart enough to know WHY mortgage brokers are pushing
interest only loans so hard? Is it for YOUR welfare?


Banks are willing to offer interest-only loans for this reason: they can
lend more principle, which means they can collect more interest.

If a customer can afford a $3000/month payment, the bank prefers that he
spend all $3000 in interest. They make more profit than if the customer
spends $2200 on interest and $800 on principle. The customer benefits by
living in more house than he might be able to afford if he had to pay
interest *and* principle. So both parties win.






Hell, might as
well go one more. If you don't like paying down the equity in a home,
get a reverse mortgage!


Eventually, when I retire, I will. Why die with a couple of million in
equity tied up in a house?



Also, you see, when you get done in five years,
you'll still have to get a mortgage for the original amount.


And the house will be worth $1.5 million. So I'll go secure a 20 year fixed
mortgage for $800k...which means that I have more than a 45% equity position
in my home.


If I waited 5 years to buy the same house, I would have had to borrow $1.2
million...and I only would have had 20% equity in the same home.

That means that my method will increase my net worth by $400k over your
method.


Someone
with a decent ARM would have at least some principal paid off, so his
loan amount would be lower than yours, while his payments wouldn't be
that much different for the first five years.


You're trying to tell me that there are better ARMs than a 5-year fixed at
4.25% for a jumbo non-conforming? LOL. You *are* the king!




NOYB March 23rd 05 09:15 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.


My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

I don't know NYOB's situation, other than what I've read. I *do* know

that he
has given thought to his situation. That, in itself, is more than a

lot of folks
do.

His plan makes sense.

There may be those in the universe who have a better occupation,

better place to
live, and are better able to express their point of view. From my

perspective,
you haven't shown that you are one of them. Of course, that's just my

opinion.
--
John H


So, if you pay someone to use their money, ie, a loan, it's superior to
using your OWN money, and not having to pay interest rates? The bottom
line is, if someone is taking money from you month after month, you are
losing money.


Unless you hit the lottery, then the only way to get rich is on other
people's money. You either inherit it...or borrow it. I'm borrowing it.



NOYB March 23rd 05 09:18 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.


My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.


Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


I lease or pay cash for depreciating assets, and finance appreciating ones.
It's foolish to pay off an appreciating asset...particularly when the cost
of money is as cheap as it is today.





NOYB March 23rd 05 09:22 PM


"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.


Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,


Actually, I'm using the money saved on the principle to fund my Simple IRA.
I've been putting between $20-30k/year away in my wife's and my IRAs instead
of pulling the money out to pay principle. If I didn't fund the pension
plan, I'd be paying tax on the money...and the using the remainder to pay
off only $13k per year off the principle.





NOYB March 23rd 05 09:23 PM


"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?


A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


That's a pretty good analogy. And why would a 34 year old buy a 2 1/2%
bond?




P.Fritz March 23rd 05 09:30 PM


"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only

if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put

$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a

home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra

$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea

put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his

occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to

anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",

he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on

occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really

something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests

to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad

financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The

additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I

think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.


Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


I lease or pay cash for depreciating assets, and finance appreciating
ones. It's foolish to pay off an appreciating asset...particularly when
the cost of money is as cheap as it is today.


I finance one depreciating asset.....the boat.......but since it counts as
second home....and those the interest is deductible....it is cheap money
:-)









NOYB March 23rd 05 09:30 PM


"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?


A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.



I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.



NOYB March 23rd 05 09:31 PM


"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.



I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall about this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the "King of the NG
idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it may not make
economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see the economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a month to your
mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k (pretax).........you
take the 200 a month as income, at 33% and you netting 130 to the
principal..(likely less than that because of medicare tax and and state
and local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2% of that amount..........in
the meantime you could have taken the entire 200 pretax in a 401 or SEP
even at a modest return of 5% a year.....you are going to be even further
ahead.


Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!




P.Fritz March 23rd 05 09:31 PM


"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?


A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


That's a pretty good analogy. And why would a 34 year old buy a 2 1/2%
bond?


I can't take credit for that.....it came from a financial planner.








NOYB March 23rd 05 09:32 PM


"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


I lease or pay cash for depreciating assets, and finance appreciating
ones. It's foolish to pay off an appreciating asset...particularly when
the cost of money is as cheap as it is today.


I finance one depreciating asset.....the boat


I probably will too one day when I upsize. Right now, both my boats are
paid for.



P.Fritz March 23rd 05 09:43 PM


"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
m...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will
be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then
it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall about this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the "King of the
NG idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it may not
make economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see the economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a month to
your mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k
(pretax).........you take the 200 a month as income, at 33% and you
netting 130 to the principal..(likely less than that because of medicare
tax and and state and local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2% of that
amount..........in the meantime you could have taken the entire 200
pretax in a 401 or SEP even at a modest return of 5% a year.....you are
going to be even further ahead.


Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!


The funny thing is that asslciker claims to be self employed.......anybody
that is self employed would realize the benefits of the pre tax investment
(especially since they raise the limits of the SEP / 401K )







John H March 23rd 05 09:58 PM

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:30:33 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional 30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker, while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner, then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.



I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.

Oh ****! I hadn't thought of that.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Tuuk March 24th 05 11:49 AM

krause,, you were never connected,,,

I mean your own mother had 2 or 3 husbands, as you claimed. Your father,
well, he arrived in the west, in the New York harbor to a fire boat spray.
He crossed the Atlantic as you said in an outboard motor driven boat. lol,,,
ouch,, What did he do krause?? pack a couple lunches? Have a couple suite
cases? What was he running from krause,, hmmmmm interesting.

But look at the product of these two specimens. You have grown up to destroy
the family business, lose it, sold it all off and have nothing to show for
it. While Papa krause was developing a family business for his children to
carry on you joined two unions and preferred the union slob labor atmosphere
for your career. But as soon as you had your chance to take over the family
business, you liquidated it. lol,,, krause,,, what happened did the
employees form a union and force you out of business? Or is that one of the
union cards you hold,,,

krause,, you were never connected. Real World??? wow,,, krause,,, you really
have issues with the world,,,






"HKrause" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...


That attitude will keep you angry and bitter at the entire world.



Huh??...................who's angry & bitter?



I dunno, some of these rightie fellas are a bit disconnected from the real
world, and others are a lot disconnected.




basskisser March 24th 05 01:23 PM


P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings.

At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the

home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance,

on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to

the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.


Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan

to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can be
earning for me. If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.


basskisser March 24th 05 01:24 PM


P.Fritz wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
m...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan

(but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an

extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a

good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been,

but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will
be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being

in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea

isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then
it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall about

this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the "King

of the
NG idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it may

not
make economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see the

economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a month

to
your mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k
(pretax).........you take the 200 a month as income, at 33% and

you
netting 130 to the principal..(likely less than that because of

medicare
tax and and state and local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2% of

that
amount..........in the meantime you could have taken the entire

200
pretax in a 401 or SEP even at a modest return of 5% a

year.....you are
going to be even further ahead.


Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!


The funny thing is that asslciker claims to be self

employed.......anybody
that is self employed would realize the benefits of the pre tax

investment
(especially since they raise the limits of the SEP / 401K )

Uh, please, Fritz, show where I've ever said I didn't have any
investments? If I am debt free, I'll have more surplus money TO invest,
plain and simple.


basskisser March 24th 05 01:27 PM


NOYB wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on

a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.



I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.


You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


JimH March 24th 05 01:34 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on

a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.


You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


Just 12 minutes prior to you calling NOYB an idiot you posted this:

"I see you still aren't smart enough to debate a subject without
childish name calling. "

Do you see a problem here Kevin?



NOYB March 24th 05 01:51 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
m...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan

(but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an

extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a

good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been,

but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will
be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being

in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea

isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then
it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall about

this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the "King

of the
NG idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it may

not
make economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see the

economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a month

to
your mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k
(pretax).........you take the 200 a month as income, at 33% and

you
netting 130 to the principal..(likely less than that because of

medicare
tax and and state and local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2% of

that
amount..........in the meantime you could have taken the entire

200
pretax in a 401 or SEP even at a modest return of 5% a

year.....you are
going to be even further ahead.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!


The funny thing is that asslciker claims to be self

employed.......anybody
that is self employed would realize the benefits of the pre tax

investment
(especially since they raise the limits of the SEP / 401K )

Uh, please, Fritz, show where I've ever said I didn't have any
investments? If I am debt free, I'll have more surplus money TO invest,
plain and simple.


Investing money 17 years from now when your mortgage is paid off will do you
very little good. You'll be missing 17 years of compounding interest. You
keep forgetting that your house is an investment that continues to grow in
value even if you don't pay one dime in principle. Conversely, your pension
plan needs a constant influx of money in order to reach a value that can
sustain you in your retirement.




NOYB March 24th 05 01:57 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings.

At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the

home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance,

on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to

the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan

to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can be
earning for me.


But you won't be debt free for 17 years, and by that time you'll be just a
few short years from retirement. Even if you save 75% of your salary for
those few short years, you'll have missed out on 17 years of compounding
interest.

Haven't you ever seen the example where two people contribute $2000/year to
their simple IRA for equal number of years? The first guy starts
contributing at age 18, and the second guy waits until age 30 to start his
contributions. They both contribute the same net amount (I think the
example that I saw was $2000 per year for 16 years...meaning each
contributed $32000). By age 62, and despite equal amounts of contributions,
the first guy has four times as much in his retirement fund than the second
guy.


If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.


You mean like calling me stupid?



P.Fritz March 24th 05 02:28 PM


"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
m...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan

(but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an

extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a

good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been,

but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will
be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being

in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea

isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then
it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall about

this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the "King

of the
NG idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it may

not
make economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see the

economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a month

to
your mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k
(pretax).........you take the 200 a month as income, at 33% and

you
netting 130 to the principal..(likely less than that because of

medicare
tax and and state and local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2% of

that
amount..........in the meantime you could have taken the entire

200
pretax in a 401 or SEP even at a modest return of 5% a

year.....you are
going to be even further ahead.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

The funny thing is that asslciker claims to be self

employed.......anybody
that is self employed would realize the benefits of the pre tax

investment
(especially since they raise the limits of the SEP / 401K )

Uh, please, Fritz, show where I've ever said I didn't have any
investments? If I am debt free, I'll have more surplus money TO invest,
plain and simple.


Investing money 17 years from now when your mortgage is paid off will do
you very little good. You'll be missing 17 years of compounding interest.
You keep forgetting that your house is an investment that continues to
grow in value even if you don't pay one dime in principle. Conversely,
your pension plan needs a constant influx of money in order to reach a
value that can sustain you in your retirement.


That boy continues to prove he is dumber than a tree stump






P.Fritz March 24th 05 02:35 PM


"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement savings.

At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay the

home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative balance,

on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly to

the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home loan

to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can be
earning for me.


But you won't be debt free for 17 years, and by that time you'll be just a
few short years from retirement. Even if you save 75% of your salary for
those few short years, you'll have missed out on 17 years of compounding
interest.

Haven't you ever seen the example where two people contribute $2000/year
to their simple IRA for equal number of years? The first guy starts
contributing at age 18, and the second guy waits until age 30 to start his
contributions. They both contribute the same net amount (I think the
example that I saw was $2000 per year for 16 years...meaning each
contributed $32000). By age 62, and despite equal amounts of
contributions, the first guy has four times as much in his retirement fund
than the second guy.


If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.


You mean like calling me stupid?


Once again, asslicker proves why he is te "King of the NG idiots"

He is so dense, he will never comprehend the simple economics of the issue.








basskisser March 24th 05 05:07 PM


JimH wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional,

or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan

(but
only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on
a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an

extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a

good
idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make

him
think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than

superior
to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this

was
really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of
bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been,

but
I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and

it
will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied

directly
to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being

in
debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea

isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate)

sooner,
then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you
do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.


You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


Just 12 minutes prior to you calling NOYB an idiot you posted this:

"I see you still aren't smart enough to debate a subject without
childish name calling. "

Do you see a problem here Kevin?


the only problem I see is my name isn't Kevin. The only other problem I
see is the fact that when NOYB, and others are found out to be ignorant
of fact, they almost INSTANTLY come up with something like a statement
about someone's mother. Do you think that is prudent? Do you think that
prudent of a man who thinks he's oh so perfect, an alleged
professional? Now please notice that I didn't CALL NOYB a name, like,
say....ummm Toothwhore. I simply made a judgement. Now, where were you
when JimH, and Fritz were posting lie, after lie about ME? Did you
think THAT would be the way someone with intelligence should act?


basskisser March 24th 05 05:08 PM


NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings.
At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance,
on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of
bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to
the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan
to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you
do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can

be
earning for me.


But you won't be debt free for 17 years, and by that time you'll be

just a
few short years from retirement. Even if you save 75% of your salary

for
those few short years, you'll have missed out on 17 years of

compounding
interest.

Haven't you ever seen the example where two people contribute

$2000/year to
their simple IRA for equal number of years? The first guy starts
contributing at age 18, and the second guy waits until age 30 to

start his
contributions. They both contribute the same net amount (I think the


example that I saw was $2000 per year for 16 years...meaning each
contributed $32000). By age 62, and despite equal amounts of

contributions,
the first guy has four times as much in his retirement fund than the

second
guy.


If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.


You mean like calling me stupid?

No, I said you were an idiot. I didn't call you Idiot.


basskisser March 24th 05 05:09 PM


P.Fritz wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
m...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest

only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either

loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the

conventional
30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan
(but only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me

to
put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay

principal
on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an
extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement
savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and

pay
the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a
good idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make

him
think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives,

his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than

superior
to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a

"good
idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative
balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this

was
really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer

term
interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a

sign
of bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of

30.
The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had

been,
but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of

an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal
quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed,

and it
will
be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied

directly
to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like

being
in debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy

a
car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same
principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea
isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the

home
loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate)

sooner,
then
it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances

than
you do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

I doubt it, he has been beating his head against the wall

about
this for
months. I think the basic problem (besides him being the

"King
of the
NG idiots") is that if you are in the low end tax bracket, it

may
not
make economic sense. Those in the highest brackets can see

the
economic
benefits clearly.


Add to the above.........the choice of paying an extra 200 a

month
to
your mortgage (money taken as income) or to your 401k
(pretax).........you take the 200 a month as income, at 33%

and
you
netting 130 to the principal..(likely less than that because

of
medicare
tax and and state and local income tax) .....saving you 2-1/2%

of
that
amount..........in the meantime you could have taken the

entire
200
pretax in a 401 or SEP even at a modest return of 5% a
year.....you are
going to be even further ahead.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

The funny thing is that asslciker claims to be self
employed.......anybody
that is self employed would realize the benefits of the pre tax
investment
(especially since they raise the limits of the SEP / 401K )

Uh, please, Fritz, show where I've ever said I didn't have any
investments? If I am debt free, I'll have more surplus money TO

invest,
plain and simple.


Investing money 17 years from now when your mortgage is paid off

will do
you very little good. You'll be missing 17 years of compounding

interest.
You keep forgetting that your house is an investment that continues

to
grow in value even if you don't pay one dime in principle.

Conversely,
your pension plan needs a constant influx of money in order to

reach a
value that can sustain you in your retirement.


That boy continues to prove he is dumber than a tree stump


"That boy"? And you have the audacity to call someone else dumb?


JimH March 24th 05 05:13 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional,

or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional
30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan

(but
only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on
a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an

extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement
savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay
the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a

good
idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make

him
think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than

superior
to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good
idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative
balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this

was
really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term
interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of
bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been,

but
I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and

it
will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied

directly
to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being

in
debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a
car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea

isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home
loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate)

sooner,
then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you
do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.

You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


Just 12 minutes prior to you calling NOYB an idiot you posted this:

"I see you still aren't smart enough to debate a subject without
childish name calling. "

Do you see a problem here Kevin?


the only problem I see is my name isn't Kevin. The only other problem I
see is the fact that when NOYB, and others are found out to be ignorant
of fact, they almost INSTANTLY come up with something like a statement
about someone's mother. Do you think that is prudent? Do you think that
prudent of a man who thinks he's oh so perfect, an alleged
professional? Now please notice that I didn't CALL NOYB a name, like,
say....ummm Toothwhore. I simply made a judgement. Now, where were you
when JimH, and Fritz were posting lie, after lie about ME? Did you
think THAT would be the way someone with intelligence should act?


Pssst....I *am* JimH....and I apologized to you....remember?

Now you pledged to stop the name calling. Are you going to break your
promise Kevin?



basskisser March 24th 05 05:13 PM


P.Fritz wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional
30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan

(but
only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an

extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings.
At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a

good
idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him
think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good
idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance,
on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was
really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term
interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of
bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been,

but I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it
will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to
the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being

in
debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea

isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan
to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,
then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you
do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can

be
earning for me.


But you won't be debt free for 17 years, and by that time you'll be

just a
few short years from retirement. Even if you save 75% of your

salary for
those few short years, you'll have missed out on 17 years of

compounding
interest.

Haven't you ever seen the example where two people contribute

$2000/year
to their simple IRA for equal number of years? The first guy

starts
contributing at age 18, and the second guy waits until age 30 to

start his
contributions. They both contribute the same net amount (I think

the
example that I saw was $2000 per year for 16 years...meaning each
contributed $32000). By age 62, and despite equal amounts of
contributions, the first guy has four times as much in his

retirement fund
than the second guy.


If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.


You mean like calling me stupid?


Once again, asslicker proves why he is te "King of the NG idiots"

He is so dense, he will never comprehend the simple economics of the

issue.



My, my, for someone who thinks I'm dense, you sure seem enamored with
me! You never fail to follow me around the newsgroup.


JimH March 24th 05 05:13 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional
30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but
only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings.
At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good
idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him
think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good
idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance,
on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was
really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term
interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of
bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it
will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to
the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in
debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan
to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,
then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you
do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can

be
earning for me.


But you won't be debt free for 17 years, and by that time you'll be

just a
few short years from retirement. Even if you save 75% of your salary

for
those few short years, you'll have missed out on 17 years of

compounding
interest.

Haven't you ever seen the example where two people contribute

$2000/year to
their simple IRA for equal number of years? The first guy starts
contributing at age 18, and the second guy waits until age 30 to

start his
contributions. They both contribute the same net amount (I think the


example that I saw was $2000 per year for 16 years...meaning each
contributed $32000). By age 62, and despite equal amounts of

contributions,
the first guy has four times as much in his retirement fund than the

second
guy.


If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.


You mean like calling me stupid?


No, I said you were an idiot. I didn't call you Idiot.


Un-fricken-believable.



John H March 24th 05 05:19 PM

On 24 Mar 2005 05:27:12 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


NOYB wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

roups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on

a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.


Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.


You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


Well, you did get pretty mum, as far as my responses to you went.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Dr. Dr. Karen Grear March 24th 05 05:27 PM


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


Is it necessary to use childish name calling?




P.Fritz March 24th 05 05:39 PM


"JimH" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

P.Fritz wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only
loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional
30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but
only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to

put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal

on a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings.
At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the
home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good
idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him
think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good
idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance,
on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was
really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term
interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign

of
bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30.

The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an
interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal

quicker,
while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it
will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to
the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in
debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same

principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan
to pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,
then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than

you
do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


Hmm, so, let's see, if I am debt free, ALL of my surplus money can

be
earning for me.

But you won't be debt free for 17 years, and by that time you'll be

just a
few short years from retirement. Even if you save 75% of your salary

for
those few short years, you'll have missed out on 17 years of

compounding
interest.

Haven't you ever seen the example where two people contribute

$2000/year to
their simple IRA for equal number of years? The first guy starts
contributing at age 18, and the second guy waits until age 30 to

start his
contributions. They both contribute the same net amount (I think the


example that I saw was $2000 per year for 16 years...meaning each
contributed $32000). By age 62, and despite equal amounts of

contributions,
the first guy has four times as much in his retirement fund than the

second
guy.


If you are still in debt up to your ass, you don't have
near the surplus money, because you are paying someone else to use
their money. Hell, it's simple, even for you. Also, I see that you
still don't have the mental capacity to debate a subject without
childish name calling. Pretty pathetic.

You mean like calling me stupid?


No, I said you were an idiot. I didn't call you Idiot.


Un-fricken-believable.


THat why he remains "King of the NG idiots"






P.Fritz March 24th 05 05:40 PM


"John H" wrote in message
...
On 24 Mar 2005 05:27:12 -0800, "basskisser" wrote:


NOYB wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:22:04 -0500, "P.Fritz"

wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 23 Mar 2005 10:57:44 -0800, "basskisser"

wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 09:44:18 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


John H wrote:
On 23 Mar 2005 05:01:54 -0800, "basskisser"


wrote:


NOYB wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...
But, I thought that you had to get an interest only

loan?????


The bank was offering me either loan...conventional, or
interest-only.

I chose the interest only loan over the conventional

30-year
fixed,
because
it gives me the option to pay principal on the loan (but

only
if
*I
*decide
to do so). Right now, it makes more sense for me to put
$25-30k
per
year
away in a qualified pension plan than to pay principal on

a
home
mortgage.
In 4 1/2 years, I'll only be 38...and I'll have an extra
$6000/mo
(before
taxes) to put towards principal and/or retirement

savings. At
that
time, I
can get a 20 year conventional fixed mortgage, and pay

the home
off
before
I'm 60.


Yeah, sure, whatever.......

basskisser, is that the best you can do when you see a good

idea
put
in place?
--
John H

No, but you know how NOYB is, no sense in trying to make him

think
anything other than what he does, says, where he lives, his
occupation,
his thoughts, and on and on, are anything less than superior

to
anyone
else in the universe. Just ask him! Now, as far as a "good

idea",
he's
admitted himself that he is financially stretched tight.

My daughter has commented to me about having a negative

balance, on
occasion, in
my checkbook. To her, who has bounced a check to me, this was

really
something
to 'catch her dad' with.

There are times when it is beneficial to one's longer term

interests
to be
somewhat 'stretched tight'. That is not, necessarily, a sign of

bad
financial
management. I financed my house for 15 years instead of 30. The
additional
payment amount stretched me a little more than I had been, but

I
think that the
long term benefits will be worth the stretch.

Ah, now, paying off a loan quickly is right the opposite of an

interest
only loan! You are purposefully paying off the principal quicker,

while
he isn't paying ANY of it off. I've got a 30 year fixed, and it

will be
paid off in 17 years because of extra payments applied directly

to the
principal. I don't care what anybody says, I don't like being in

debt.
I don't take out car loans, I save until I have cash to buy a

car,
therefore I don't pay anybody to use their money. Same principal.

Well, once you read my other post you'll see why your idea isn't
necessarily the
best.

If he us using the money he saved on the principle of the home

loan to
pay
off
the business loan (with perhaps a higher interest rate) sooner,

then it
seems as
though he's doing a smart thing.

Wouldn't you think that he knows more about his finances than you

do?

A tree stump knows more about finances than the "King"

Paying off the house early is like buying a 2-1/2% bond.


I expect he'll get very mum on this subject shortly.

Now he's going to threaten you for bringing his mum into this.


You ARE an idiot, aren't you?


Well, you did get pretty mum, as far as my responses to you went.


And I wonder is asslciker has stopped beating his wife? ;-)


--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."





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