Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:43:12 GMT, bo jangles wrote:


On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:18:11 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:08:19 GMT, "tony thomas"
wrote:


Yamaha: 2 stroke or 4 stroke. I personally like the EFI better than the
carb since they crank and run like a car (no choke or throttle required).
Don't get Direct fuel injection. Make sure you have a local dealer that has
a good reputation.

Merc: 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Again, EFI is better. Don't get Optimax.
Best dealer network. Best for parts. A good local dealer will take care of
you and you won't have the warrenty issues that Short Wave talked about.

Wanna bet? :) Do we need to bring out the receipts and prove the
point one more time?


Suzuki: 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Again, EFI is better. Local dealer and
dealer network may be an issue.

Honda: 4 stroke (I like the least personally due to dealer network)

Evinrude / Johnson: Stay away from Period. Older ones were good in a carb
2 stroke but I don't think you want to go that old.

Karen - is that you? :)

WOW! Only a few "meaningful" responses into the thread and no
agreement at all from people that know much more than I. No wonder
I'm confused. I may just scrap the whole idea and continue to rent
boats and let someone else take care of them.


ROTFL!!!!!

You will never actually get a straight answer if you ask an open ended
question. Everybody knows somebody who knows somebody, etc. :)

Everybody agrees that Karen is...well...very negative about 2 stroke
outboards. It doesn't mean she doesn't have knowledge and can't
impart experiences that are meaningful - she can and sometimes does.
It's just in this area, she is extremely biased.

Hmmm I certainly think the 4 strokes are better than the 2 strokes &
I'd suggest the manufacturers (except one experimental newcomer:-)) have
made the same choices & backed their choices with their own investment
money.

I am against the DFI & if you search google groups you'll read for
weeks & weeks & see I've been saying they won't work since before they
didn't work & still to this day I say "we" are the only ones to give a
rational explanation as to why they didn't, don't & won't work in
consumer usage. If that is a bias again Tom OK I put my hands up:-)


Tony is a Merc guy and is very knowledgable about Mercs. We've been
over around and through this Merc warranty thing - he refuses to
believe that anybody can have a negative experience with Mercury.
That's fine - his belief. He is a valuable contributor to the group

He certainly is & thanks are in order.

and we disagree on Mercury. I never said they were lousy engines - I
said their warranty policy sucks.

I completely disagree with anybody who is negative towards DI two
stroke technology.

Gee Tom,

A publicly admitted failure rate of 1 in 5!!!! Imagine the real rate if
that's what the dealers themselves "admit"???:-)

US$1.3 Billion of union retirees' money lost???

7000 US workers chucked out of work???

A US icon company feet up in a table drain??

Endless boaters lost heaps on their recreation interest during the
biggest recreational spend of all time??

Mercury are so scared of DFI they're spending huge amounts on belatedly
changing over to 4 strokes & again ALL boating consumers will pay in the
end. NB Merc have now claimed dumping protection against Yamaha, which
means this season the price of OBs will go up yet again.



My experiences have been positive and I know a lot
of folks who have also had similar experiences.

You had a failure rate of i in3!!! that's even worse!!! & I hate to tell
you Tom yours too was caused by lean mixture at power, poor atomisation
induced detonation, just the same as the ejected injectors were, the
same as the fuel plumbing leaks were (till the coast guard made them
recall so people didn't die from the fires). So just because your
pistons didn't melt which was the usual failure mode, doesn't mean your
engines were not detonating, it just means the horrendous shock waves
killed under the flywheel first.


I'm so confident that
I just spent a lot of money on purchasing two E-TECs. Take that for
what you will.

No comment.... well............:-) apart from he couldn't get any money
for the Fichts any other way than buy even more bad news. Tom is now an
official tester for the latest consumer funded Ficht experiment. He's
paying over 4 stroke prices, hope he gets a supporters T shirt ( if he
can still afford it:-))



There is an easy way to figure it all out. Take what the responses
have been and take a look around at the different engine
manufacturers. Make a point of going to different sales organizations
and ask questions - what is the difference between 4 stroke and 2
stroke? What is the per hour gas consumption rate? How reliable are
the engines? What is the warranty? Compare emissions figures engine
for engine. Once you have a little product knowledge, get the
technical information and make some comparisons.

Also make sure the engines you buy are from long term players, & the
technology is well known & well established as a success, that all but
eliminates the E-Tecs & then if you have any doubts ask how they can ask
such silly prices for a glorified lawn mower 2 stroke engine, even more
than a proper 4 stroke.


Of above all, don't let personal opinions get in the way of the facts.
If you find that you are comfortable with Mercury and the Mercury
dealer, then that's the engine for you. Same with Yamaha, same with
Evinrude - anything.

Not Evinrude you'll be taking a huge risk & they haven't even really
sold any in big quantities yet. This is a re-run of Ficht where they
tell you to "trust" them & they know more than any of the proper engine
manufacturers.

Don't listen to the dealers from any brand they'll say anything to get
your money. Indeed with Ficht despite their denials it transpired
(absolutely for sure, in the courts during the OMC bankruptcy) they were
getting over 30% in kickbacks to continue to lie to consumers, imagine
that 30% of say a US$15000 OB & they didn't even have to pay for
them!!!! No wonder they're liars.

Owning your own boat is fun. Don't let us with strong opinions ruin
the boat comparison and shopping experience for you.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom

K

Speaking of liars (see how I cunningly lead into that???:-))

Another from the very sad "father series, this is the one where he
claims his dad died in the 70s so Krause stepped in to clean up, being
the greedy union employee liar he is I'm sure he cleaned up for himself;
but...........

As always his lies are just lies, anyone in the boating industry knows
dealers don't actually "own" the stock, much less a dealer in the 70 has
$3mil on the floor (what's that in todays money??? gee just cpi it & you
get $11-12 mil:-) but the liar doesn't do the math on his lies because
he's totally an uneducated buffoon. Or why would the industry be
depressed if he sold in 30 days at "near full retail, too" What an idiot.


We're probably lucky really that the lying grub did go off & become a
flunky union employee destroying the US manufacturing industries,
imagine what we'd be paying for Ficht by now:-)


I sold off nearly $3,000,000 in new motors and boats,
depressing the new boat industry in southern Connecticut
for an entire season.
Everything was sold...every cotter pin, every quart of oil,
30 days after I started.
For near full-retail, too.