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( OT ) No child left behind (all will be held back)
Group: U.S. losing competitive edge
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Leaders of high-tech companies said the United States risks losing its competitive edge without significant new investments in education, research and development and the spread of broadband technology. "The world is changing a little bit, and frankly there is a significant amount of concern that if we don't make some adjustments, follow the right public policies, do some things that are important, we could find ourselves very quickly losing the advantage we've had for so long," Rick White, president and chief executive of high-tech lobby TechNet, said at a press conference. The Palo Alto, California, group represents about 200 high-tech leaders, including Microsoft, Intel Corp., Cisco Systems and Hewlett Packard. TechNet made its annual lobbying trip to Capitol Hill this week to meet with Cabinet members and congressional leaders. White and other TechNet officials cited some troubling indications that the United States is falling behind in high-tech development: * Some 7 percent of U.S. households have the fastest kind of broadband access, compared with 30 percent in Korea, 20 percent in Japan and over 10 percent in France, TechNet leaders said. Overall, 20 percent of U.S. households have some kind of high-speed connection, according to a report issued last fall by the Commerce Department. * U.S. investment in research and development has stayed flat for the last three decades, while it has grown significantly in competitors such as Brazil, India, China and Israel. * Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are graduating five times as many engineers. The officials announced formation of a CEO Education Task Force to try to come up with solutions. They also called on Congress to increase basic research funding and make permanent a research and development tax credit; promote broadband development, in part by minimizing regulations; enact a U.S.-Central America-Dominican Republic Free Trade Agreement; promote cyber-security initiatives; and continue to take steps to reduce frivolous lawsuits. TechNet leaders also pledged to continue their opposition to a proposed Financial Accounting Standards Board rule that would require companies to deduct the value of employee stock options from their profits. Requiring some big companies to expense the popular employee incentives could dramatically reduce their profits. Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html |
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:55:22 GMT, "Jim," wrote:
Jim, enough is enough. This repeating articles is just getting stupid. Lay off for a while will you? Later, Tom |
* Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in
other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are graduating five times as many engineers ************ Until American engineers are willing to work for $500 a month (and a socialist government picks up all the health care costs, subsidizes housing, and pays for a free college education for everybody who wants it)...... there will be five times as many new engineering *jobs* in those countries as there are in the US. (Jobs that used to be in the US). Funny how the same executives who would fight to the death to keep big government out of the US have *no* hesitation in exporting jobs to countries where big, socialist governments make it possible for people to work for almost nothing per month. The answer isn't to establish a socialist government here in the US, it's expecting our industrial base that gives non-stop lip service to red, white, and blue patriotism to put its money, and financial commitment, where its mouth is. There's not much point trying to educate our kids for hight tech and engineering jobs. Not when they will be asked to compete with kids on the other side of the world who can afford to work all month for less than what the average American pays just to rent a run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood. |
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John H wrote:
That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the easiest way to get a worthless degree. The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of the effects of our education problem. -- ****************** If we turned out as many or more engineers as do the Chinese and the Indians (countries with several times our population and probably not producing that many more engineers per capita) the corporations would *still* look around and say: "We can pay an American graduate, living in the United States, a starting wage of $1000 a week, plus another $1000 a month in FICA and fringe benefits, and have that graduate make design computations on a software program. Or, we can pay and Indian graduate, living in New Delhi, $125 a week to do the same job and not worry about the fringe benefits, etc, because the government provides for the sick and the elderly in India. The Indian graduate will work at least as hard for the $125 a week, be more grateful to get it, be able to buy an equally luxurious lifestyle, and when he qualifies for a 10% pay increase after a year it will cost us $12 a week instead of another $100." Even Bill Gates, who is loudly wailing about the loss of high tech jobs to third world countries and is blaming the shift on "poor education", is laying off some of the most highly educated workers in the world here in the US to export jobs as fast as he can to a market where his labor costs are about 20% of what they are here in the US. You want to train the younger generation for the jobs of tomorrow? Forget anything that can be done on computer with the results shot anywhere around the world via the internet. The best paid new jobs will be in sales and marketing, construction, mechanical repair, home remodel, travel and entertainment. Medical professions are safe. Anything that requires the physical presence of a skilled human being, on site, rather than several thousand miles away in a socialist, third world economy. It's a paradigm shift, yet again. Our generation was well compensated for what we *knew*, but knowledge is portable and you can educate people who are willing to work and who can afford to work for substantially less than even poverty-level wages in the US. Our kids will be paid less for what they know and more for what they can *do*, and the less exportable the skill set and the greater the requirement that somebody be physically located where the services are performed the more the job is likely to pay. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On 10 Mar 2005 17:23:41 -0800, wrote: * Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are graduating five times as many engineers ************ Until American engineers are willing to work for $500 a month (and a socialist government picks up all the health care costs, subsidizes housing, and pays for a free college education for everybody who wants it)...... there will be five times as many new engineering *jobs* in those countries as there are in the US. (Jobs that used to be in the US). Funny how the same executives who would fight to the death to keep big government out of the US have *no* hesitation in exporting jobs to countries where big, socialist governments make it possible for people to work for almost nothing per month. The answer isn't to establish a socialist government here in the US, it's expecting our industrial base that gives non-stop lip service to red, white, and blue patriotism to put its money, and financial commitment, where its mouth is. There's not much point trying to educate our kids for hight tech and engineering jobs. Not when they will be asked to compete with kids on the other side of the world who can afford to work all month for less than what the average American pays just to rent a run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood. That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the easiest way to get a worthless degree. The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of the effects of our education problem. It would be a giggle to know what Herring believes a "worthless" degree is, since for many, the purpose of higher education is not to learn a trade, but to further prepare one's mind. "To further prepare one's mind" for what? Flipping burgers at McD's? |
Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze.
Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue? |
krause
your own children were left behind, you said yourself. You also said they left you for their mother promising never to associate again. Tell me krause, did you put on your military attire today, go down your acreage, duck between trees and pop out with a roll then fire on your tin can? Did you do your make belief you are a war hero? Or did you skip that and just come here to insult the real heros? You pretending or insulting? lol,,, "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On 10 Mar 2005 17:23:41 -0800, wrote: * Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are graduating five times as many engineers ************ Until American engineers are willing to work for $500 a month (and a socialist government picks up all the health care costs, subsidizes housing, and pays for a free college education for everybody who wants it)...... there will be five times as many new engineering *jobs* in those countries as there are in the US. (Jobs that used to be in the US). Funny how the same executives who would fight to the death to keep big government out of the US have *no* hesitation in exporting jobs to countries where big, socialist governments make it possible for people to work for almost nothing per month. The answer isn't to establish a socialist government here in the US, it's expecting our industrial base that gives non-stop lip service to red, white, and blue patriotism to put its money, and financial commitment, where its mouth is. There's not much point trying to educate our kids for hight tech and engineering jobs. Not when they will be asked to compete with kids on the other side of the world who can afford to work all month for less than what the average American pays just to rent a run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood. That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the easiest way to get a worthless degree. The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of the effects of our education problem. It would be a giggle to know what Herring believes a "worthless" degree is, since for many, the purpose of higher education is not to learn a trade, but to further prepare one's mind. |
wrote in message ups.com... Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze. Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue? Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? |
Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you
not believe? **************** Shall we start with the source? Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active, political bias are not to be trusted. We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-) Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to support your conclusion. "Outsourcing is a liberal myth"? Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant, and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the National Review, its all been a liberal myth. |
wrote in message ups.com... Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? **************** Shall we start with the source? Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active, political bias are not to be trusted. We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-) Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to support your conclusion. "Outsourcing is a liberal myth"? Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant, and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the National Review, its all been a liberal myth. You stated your beliefs and opinions but you did not answer my question. |
JimH wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze. Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue? Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? Suggest you go back to the article and read the bottom line Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html |
"Jim," wrote in message ... JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze. Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue? Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? Suggest you go back to the article and read the bottom line Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html I suggest you reread the links in Pauls post. They were about outsourcing. |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Jim," wrote in message ... JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze. Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue? Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? Suggest you go back to the article and read the bottom line Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html I suggest you reread the links in Pauls post. They were about outsourcing. Of course the only acceptable source for the liebrals is the NYT or Boston Globe, and Slate,. :-) |
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:11:45 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On 10 Mar 2005 17:23:41 -0800, wrote: * Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are graduating five times as many engineers ************ Until American engineers are willing to work for $500 a month (and a socialist government picks up all the health care costs, subsidizes housing, and pays for a free college education for everybody who wants it)...... there will be five times as many new engineering *jobs* in those countries as there are in the US. (Jobs that used to be in the US). Funny how the same executives who would fight to the death to keep big government out of the US have *no* hesitation in exporting jobs to countries where big, socialist governments make it possible for people to work for almost nothing per month. The answer isn't to establish a socialist government here in the US, it's expecting our industrial base that gives non-stop lip service to red, white, and blue patriotism to put its money, and financial commitment, where its mouth is. There's not much point trying to educate our kids for hight tech and engineering jobs. Not when they will be asked to compete with kids on the other side of the world who can afford to work all month for less than what the average American pays just to rent a run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood. That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the easiest way to get a worthless degree. The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of the effects of our education problem. It would be a giggle to know what Herring believes a "worthless" degree is, since for many, the purpose of higher education is not to learn a trade, but to further prepare one's mind. "To further prepare one's mind" for what? Flipping burgers at McD's? + I don't get Harry's posts, so I'll respond through you. Hope you don't mind. A worthwhile degree, in my opinion, is one which enables the person to be gainfully employed. If you'll look he http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncar0002.pdf You can get a good feel for which degrees pay decently. Notice that most of those ranked below 300 don't pay very well. A degree that enables one to be a waiter wouldn't be very worthwhile. However, we have college graduates with degrees that may 'prepare one's mind' who can't do much better. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
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On 10 Mar 2005 18:46:49 -0800, wrote:
John H wrote: That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the easiest way to get a worthless degree. The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of the effects of our education problem. -- ****************** If we turned out as many or more engineers as do the Chinese and the Indians (countries with several times our population and probably not producing that many more engineers per capita) the corporations would *still* look around and say: "We can pay an American graduate, living in the United States, a starting wage of $1000 a week, plus another $1000 a month in FICA and fringe benefits, and have that graduate make design computations on a software program. Or, we can pay and Indian graduate, living in New Delhi, $125 a week to do the same job and not worry about the fringe benefits, etc, because the government provides for the sick and the elderly in India. The Indian graduate will work at least as hard for the $125 a week, be more grateful to get it, be able to buy an equally luxurious lifestyle, and when he qualifies for a 10% pay increase after a year it will cost us $12 a week instead of another $100." Even Bill Gates, who is loudly wailing about the loss of high tech jobs to third world countries and is blaming the shift on "poor education", is laying off some of the most highly educated workers in the world here in the US to export jobs as fast as he can to a market where his labor costs are about 20% of what they are here in the US. You want to train the younger generation for the jobs of tomorrow? Forget anything that can be done on computer with the results shot anywhere around the world via the internet. The best paid new jobs will be in sales and marketing, construction, mechanical repair, home remodel, travel and entertainment. Medical professions are safe. Anything that requires the physical presence of a skilled human being, on site, rather than several thousand miles away in a socialist, third world economy. It's a paradigm shift, yet again. Our generation was well compensated for what we *knew*, but knowledge is portable and you can educate people who are willing to work and who can afford to work for substantially less than even poverty-level wages in the US. Our kids will be paid less for what they know and more for what they can *do*, and the less exportable the skill set and the greater the requirement that somebody be physically located where the services are performed the more the job is likely to pay. Your last three paragraphs say it all, although I may disagree with the short list of best paid new jobs. Go he http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncar0002.pdf and you'll find all kinds of occupations that pay well and are not 'outsourceable'. You'll also notice that the best paying require something more than a 'basket weaving' major in college. If you'll look at the table he http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/05/pf/c...ative_degrees/, you'll see what I'm talking about with regards to the type of degree. Note the high paying degrees - they aren't liberal arts degrees. Look at the bottom of the list, Elementary Teacher Education, which is one of the easiest to obtain. That starting wage applies only if the person can find a job, and they aren't that easy to find. The supply is simply too great. A problem is that the number of graduates with the 'hard degrees' is dwindling. High school graduates are not what they used to be, and therefore they don't get the 'hard' degrees in college in sufficient numbers. Because the supply is dwindling, the wages for these folks goes up. Because the number of 'soft (if any) degree' is increasing, the supply is greater than demand and the wages stay down. So we end up with an upper middle class, and more lower middle class (or poor), and no 'middle' middle class. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"John H" wrote in message ... On 10 Mar 2005 20:10:43 -0800, wrote: Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze. Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue? That comment wasn't written to entice disagreement and flaming, was it Chuck? Anything besides the NYT, Boston Globe, or Saloon is unacceptable to chucky. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"John H" wrote in message ... On 11 Mar 2005 05:48:19 -0800, wrote: Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? **************** Shall we start with the source? Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active, political bias are not to be trusted. We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-) Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to support your conclusion. "Outsourcing is a liberal myth"? Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant, and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the National Review, its all been a liberal myth. Note that you still provided no information which belies that which was posted. If chucky had been around at the turn of the century, he would have been whining about the elimination of street sweeper jobs because those big evil corporations invented the automobile. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
John H wrote:
On 11 Mar 2005 05:48:19 -0800, wrote: Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? **************** Shall we start with the source? Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active, political bias are not to be trusted. We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-) Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to support your conclusion. "Outsourcing is a liberal myth"? Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant, and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the National Review, its all been a liberal myth. Note that you still provided no information which belies that which was posted. For the REAL story check out http://www.outfoxed.org/clips_oreilly_best_qt.php |
"Jim," wrote in message ... John H wrote: On 11 Mar 2005 05:48:19 -0800, wrote: Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? **************** Shall we start with the source? Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active, political bias are not to be trusted. We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-) Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to support your conclusion. "Outsourcing is a liberal myth"? Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant, and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the National Review, its all been a liberal myth. Note that you still provided no information which belies that which was posted. For the REAL story check out http://www.outfoxed.org/clips_oreilly_best_qt.php Very funny clips. It is always interesting to see what can be done by cutting select pieces of dialogues/monologues and presenting them stand alone and out of context. Your site has done a great job at that. ;-) |
JimH wrote:
"Jim," wrote in message ... John H wrote: On 11 Mar 2005 05:48:19 -0800, wrote: Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not believe? **************** Shall we start with the source? Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active, political bias are not to be trusted. We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-) Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to support your conclusion. "Outsourcing is a liberal myth"? Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant, and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the National Review, its all been a liberal myth. Note that you still provided no information which belies that which was posted. For the REAL story check out http://www.outfoxed.org/clips_oreilly_best_qt.php Very funny clips. It is always interesting to see what can be done by cutting select pieces of dialogues/monologues and presenting them stand alone and out of context. Your site has done a great job at that. ;-) Also watch Boston Legal this coming Sunday -- 10:00 Eastern |
krause said
"'''"Employees need to learn the same game their employers practice: loyalty is a worthless commodity, look out for number one, and be ready to jump ship at a moment's notice.'''''''' krause you are a union liar,, if this was your strategy,, why would you picket your employer,, strike and force your employer (who has the most risk) to close their doors and force them to a more cooperative work force,,, lol,,, krause you are an idiot... The reason global labor is so much cheaper is because of you union slobs here in the west who have greedily force the basket of goods far too high,, inflation krause,,, lol,,, ask the little darling there krause to explain it to you... next time she brings your meds tray around,,,,, "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Bert Robbins wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On 10 Mar 2005 17:23:41 -0800, wrote: * Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are graduating five times as many engineers ************ Until American engineers are willing to work for $500 a month (and a socialist government picks up all the health care costs, subsidizes housing, and pays for a free college education for everybody who wants it)...... there will be five times as many new engineering *jobs* in those countries as there are in the US. (Jobs that used to be in the US). Funny how the same executives who would fight to the death to keep big government out of the US have *no* hesitation in exporting jobs to countries where big, socialist governments make it possible for people to work for almost nothing per month. The answer isn't to establish a socialist government here in the US, it's expecting our industrial base that gives non-stop lip service to red, white, and blue patriotism to put its money, and financial commitment, where its mouth is. There's not much point trying to educate our kids for hight tech and engineering jobs. Not when they will be asked to compete with kids on the other side of the world who can afford to work all month for less than what the average American pays just to rent a run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood. That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the easiest way to get a worthless degree. The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of the effects of our education problem. It would be a giggle to know what Herring believes a "worthless" degree is, since for many, the purpose of higher education is not to learn a trade, but to further prepare one's mind. "To further prepare one's mind" for what? Flipping burgers at McD's? For thinking, Bert, for thinking. If you know how to think, you can figure out how to adapt, and not be left on the shore when your job heads overseas. It is really sad to see so many who went to a university trade school now on the beach because their potential employers sunk to the lowest level by finding workers easier to exploit on the Pacific Rim or in India. Employees need to learn the same game their employers practice: loyalty is a worthless commodity, look out for number one, and be ready to jump ship at a moment's notice. |
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