Small Gas Generator with Xantrex Inverter/Charger?
 

Has anyone had experience trying to drive a Xantrex inverter/charger
with a small gas generator?

The specs for the Xantrex Prosine 2.0 inverter/charger say that when
it's plugged into shorepower (or an external generator), it will
automatically reduce the charger load to keep the AC source voltage
above a minimum level.

If that's to be believed, I should be able to run a portable 1 KW
generator into the Xantrex, and have it draw as much current as the
generator can serve up, but not overload it. I should also be able to
have AC appliances running off the Xantrex, and still charge the
battery with any AC power left over.

Has anyone actually done that? Or had any experience with that kind
of setup?

- Walt Bilofsky

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:31:30 -0800, Walt Bilofsky wrote:

Has anyone had experience trying to drive a Xantrex inverter/charger
with a small gas generator?


I tried it with little success. I tried to run a Statpower 40 (40Amp)
charger with a Honda 1000. 40A at, say 15V is 600W, and Xantrex say
they're about 90% efficient, so no problem, right? WRONG! Talked to the
designers (right here in Burnaby, BC, it turned out), and the problem is
the Power Factor: about .6!! so it's drawing around 11A at 120V: too much
for my poor genset!

Looking at an EU2000 to drive it, but too many other things to spend money
on right now...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:31:30 -0800, Walt Bilofsky wrote:

Has anyone had experience trying to drive a Xantrex inverter/charger
with a small gas generator?


I tried it with little success. I tried to run a Statpower 40 (40Amp)
charger with a Honda 1000. 40A at, say 15V is 600W, and Xantrex say
they're about 90% efficient, so no problem, right? WRONG! Talked to the
designers (right here in Burnaby, BC, it turned out), and the problem is
the Power Factor: about .6!! so it's drawing around 11A at 120V: too much
for my poor genset!

Looking at an EU2000 to drive it, but too many other things to spend money
on right now...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Thanks for the info, Lloyd. I have a Statpower Truecharge 40, and am
shocked to hear that 1kW is not enough to drive it.

If I go ahead with this project, I'm planning to replace it with a
Prosine 2.0 inverter/charger. It claims a better power factor and
some other nifty features. From the manual:

"Because the usual AC power sources (marina and campground outlets or
small generators, for example) often have limited current
availability, having the ability to manage your AC loads is extremely
valuable, and therefore the 2.0 provides a number of features to
facilitate this:

.. The charger is power factor corrected to use AC current as
efficiently as possible and only requires 15 amps to provide rated
charger output; some other chargers require as much as 22 amps to
provide the same output.

.. The PROsine 2.0 uses a Power Share feature which senses the AC load
on the system and gives priority to your AC loads, thereby reducing
the charger current to avoid nuisance tripping of the breaker.

.. Sometimes the usual AC shorepower sources have low voltage. To avoid
loading these weak sources any further, the charger automatically
reduces its AC current draw as the AC voltage approaches the minimum
acceptable level (as set by the user)."

I talked to a tech at Xantrex who said that the Prosine 2.0 also has a
setting for the shorepower breaker. In other words, if you set that
value to 8 amps, for example, it will never draw more than 8 amps for
the charger, and will reduce the charge current as needed to do that.
So the 1000i would be able to drive it, at a reduced charge rate.

- Walt Bilofsky

"Walt Bilofsky" wrote in message
...
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:31:30 -0800, Walt Bilofsky wrote:

Has anyone had experience trying to drive a Xantrex inverter/charger
with a small gas generator?


I tried it with little success. I tried to run a Statpower 40 (40Amp)
charger with a Honda 1000. 40A at, say 15V is 600W, and Xantrex say
they're about 90% efficient, so no problem, right? WRONG! Talked to the
designers (right here in Burnaby, BC, it turned out), and the problem is
the Power Factor: about .6!! so it's drawing around 11A at 120V: too much
for my poor genset!

Looking at an EU2000 to drive it, but too many other things to spend
money
on right now...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Thanks for the info, Lloyd. I have a Statpower Truecharge 40, and am
shocked to hear that 1kW is not enough to drive it.

If I go ahead with this project, I'm planning to replace it with a
Prosine 2.0 inverter/charger. It claims a better power factor and
some other nifty features. From the manual:

"Because the usual AC power sources (marina and campground outlets or
small generators, for example) often have limited current
availability, having the ability to manage your AC loads is extremely
valuable, and therefore the 2.0 provides a number of features to
facilitate this:

. The charger is power factor corrected to use AC current as
efficiently as possible and only requires 15 amps to provide rated
charger output; some other chargers require as much as 22 amps to
provide the same output.

. The PROsine 2.0 uses a Power Share feature which senses the AC load
on the system and gives priority to your AC loads, thereby reducing
the charger current to avoid nuisance tripping of the breaker.

. Sometimes the usual AC shorepower sources have low voltage. To avoid
loading these weak sources any further, the charger automatically
reduces its AC current draw as the AC voltage approaches the minimum
acceptable level (as set by the user)."

I talked to a tech at Xantrex who said that the Prosine 2.0 also has a
setting for the shorepower breaker. In other words, if you set that
value to 8 amps, for example, it will never draw more than 8 amps for
the charger, and will reduce the charge current as needed to do that.
So the 1000i would be able to drive it, at a reduced charge rate.

- Walt Bilofsky

Thought I might add a little personal experience with a Prosine 2.0
converter/charger/inverter that was factory installed in a small motorhome I
purchased a year and a half ago.

From day one, I had problems with it. First, it was programmed by someone
to do the bulk phase charge at 15.5 volts on a pair of lead acid batteries.
My bad for not paying attention until one day I could smell sulfuric acid
when charging. The batteries were ruined. I reprogrammed the Prosine for a
lead acid batteries (bulk charge at 14.5 volts) and bought two new
batteries. Not a fault of Prosine, but an indicator of things to come.

I then went through a period of random but frequent shutdowns of the unit
with error message codes not listed in the manual. I also got "low battery
voltage" shutdowns, even though the batteries were brand new and charging at
a float potential of 13.5 volts. The main problem with this is that the way
the unit was wired, if the Prosine tripped for any reason, all AC power to
the RV is lost, including the charger.

I contacted Prosine on several occasions after taking careful note of the
most recent failure mode and how I had it programmed. Prosine's only help
was to ask what I wanted to do about it. When I replied that I wanted some
technical assistance on resolving the tripouts, all they could offer was for
me to remove the unit from the RV and send it back to the factory
..
After a year of trying to resolve these nuisance tripouts, the unit recently
totally gave up the ghost. Power was lost and the unit was scrolling through
every error message in the manual, telling me the batteries were too hot,
too cold, voltage was too high, voltage was too low, memory failure,
internal failure codes, etc. I ended up rewiring it, bypassing the unit
altogether and now everything works fine. I added a small Vector "smart"
battery charger in place of the Prosine's charger section and am seriously
thinking of installing a simple 2500 watt Vector inverter for the few times
I want to generate 120 volts from the batteries.

In my opinion, Prosine units are overly complicated and required detailed
programming by the user of too many parameters for what they do. I am also
not impressed with the tech support - or lack of. If you have a problem, the
answer is to send the unit back, rather than listen to what is happening and
trying to resolve the myriad programming options of these units.

A copy of the instruction manual is available online at their site. If you
have a couple of hours, I'd recommend taking a look at it before investing
in one of these units to determine if you really need all of the features
and programmable parameters.

Just my experience and opinion.

Eisboch

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:30:22 -0500, Eisboch wrote:


"Walt Bilofsky" wrote in message
...
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:31:30 -0800, Walt Bilofsky wrote:

Has anyone had experience trying to drive a Xantrex inverter/charger
with a small gas generator?


I tried it with little success.

Thanks for the info, Lloyd. I have a Statpower Truecharge 40, and am
shocked to hear that 1kW is not enough to drive it.

If I go ahead with this project, I'm planning to replace it with a
Prosine 2.0 inverter/charger. It claims a better power factor and
some other nifty features. From the manual:


Thought I might add a little personal experience with a Prosine 2.0
converter/charger/inverter that was factory installed in a small motorhome I
purchased a year and a half ago.

From day one, I had problems with it.

Wow - I've had the opposite experience with my Statpower. Apart from the
unexpected failure of running it from a genset, it's been great. Never any
failures. I just leave it plugged in year round, and the batteries
connected to it (golf-carts for house, Group 27 for starting) are now 7
years old and show no signs of failure.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

"Eisboch" wrote:

Thought I might add a little personal experience with a Prosine 2.0
converter/charger/inverter that was factory installed in a small motorhome I
purchased a year and a half ago.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

My local marine electronics store has installed a lot of ProSines and
likes them. In fact, there is a new model just out - the MS2000 -
which is twice the weight and looks to be better built - but their
advice is that the only one they've seen so far was defective, and
they'd rather stay with the ProSine.

Just another data point - and I will take your experience into
account. I wonder if your experience was typical with the ProSine 2.0,
or if you just got a lemon.

Anyone else got a ProSine story?

Thanks,

Walt Bilofsky