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C-Dory and rough water boats
Please bare with me on this one. I'm planning to purchase a C-Dory 16'
or 19' in the near future (a used one). I don't have much boating experience so my decision is not firm. For the money it sounds like it's what I'm looking for but if there are other makes and models (used under 10K) that I should be looking at please let me know. The C-Dory has a classic trawler look above the hull line and I'm assuming (there's that word) that it can handle rough water much better than most boats in it's size due to the cabin and light weight. I asked a sales rep if the 16' can take the rough water as much as the 19' model and he told me that some people take it out the SF Golden Gate bridge with waves crashing over the windshield with no problem. I may have limited boating experience but that was a bit hard to swallow. My question is, how seaworthy is the 16'? Is it really for protected areas or are they correct in suggesting that C-Dorys really are rough water boats including the 16' model? I plan to use it in the SF Bay and hope to take it outside the Golden Gate bridge, weather permitting. For those of you who are not familiar with the SF coastal waters the wind and waves can get hairy. I'd go out from time to time on a fishing boat and they turn back when it get's too rough. Anyways, if I get caught with my pants down I'd like to know that I can get back without any problem. A rough ride I can deal with but I'd like to know that I'm not chancing it with this boat. Has anyone had any experience in the 16' or 19' in 2,3,4,5,6+ waves??? Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated it. If you have a suggestion for a different make/model please let me know. |
On 9 Feb 2005 15:35:15 -0800, "louis" wrote:
~~ snippage ~~ Has anyone had any experience in the 16' or 19' in 2,3,4,5,6+ waves??? BBAAWWWAAAHHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!! Oh wait - your serious. Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated it. If you have a suggestion for a different make/model please let me know. These are flat bottomed boats. Like most dory style boats, they are a bit skittish in heavy water - in particular when dealing with wind and waves at the same time. I have used powered dorys when I was much younger and they can be a handful. The big advantage to these type of boats is that they have little or no bow lift and plane at much lower speeds - they can be very efficient. The disadvantages are that they don't track very well and docking one in a wind can be problematic along with the effects of a cross wind at speed. Another disadvantage is that in moderate seas you have little to no trim to keep the bow up to maintain some kind of speed. Last, in turns it will skip somewhat and I've experienced what can only be called a spin out in one. You may want to look around for something with some V and dead rise. Older Makos, Aqua Sports, Hydra Sports, etc would be much better suited hull styles for heavier weather. Last, go up in size - at least 18/19'. You will be much happier. Later, Tom |
Here's a good tip for you:
Check out the site at www.c-brat.com It's a C-Dory owner's group. You should find some contacts and comments there that will help you in your deliberations, and everybody is an experieced C-Dory owner. If Brock Arnold has an email address on the website, he'll be happy to put you in touch with folks who have extensive experience in 16-foot C-Dory boats. (At the recent Seattle Boat Show, I met a couple who say they *live aboard* (!) a 22-footer) If Jehovah designed a 16-foot boat, St Joseph the carpenter built it, and John the Baptist christened it, I'd still personally be really reluctant to take it out in serious chop. (Rollers are one thing, chop is another, both are technically "waves"). 4-foot, 5-foot, 6-foot chop? That falls under my definition of "serious". It sounds like your salesperson was putting a serious spin on things. Spray flying over the windshield is tough enough to deal with, nobody routinely boats in conditions where waves are "crashing" (or breaking) over the windshield........they get a bigger boat. |
Look at the deadrise. The flatter the dead rise, the rougher the ride.
Also,flat deadrise leads to sliding down rollers/waves sideways. Very dangerous. I had an older 22' C-Dory with a completely flat bottom (made prior to 1986) that was downright scary in the ocean! G "louis" wrote in message oups.com... Please bare with me on this one. I'm planning to purchase a C-Dory 16' or 19' in the near future (a used one). I don't have much boating experience so my decision is not firm. For the money it sounds like it's what I'm looking for but if there are other makes and models (used under 10K) that I should be looking at please let me know. The C-Dory has a classic trawler look above the hull line and I'm assuming (there's that word) that it can handle rough water much better than most boats in it's size due to the cabin and light weight. I asked a sales rep if the 16' can take the rough water as much as the 19' model and he told me that some people take it out the SF Golden Gate bridge with waves crashing over the windshield with no problem. I may have limited boating experience but that was a bit hard to swallow. My question is, how seaworthy is the 16'? Is it really for protected areas or are they correct in suggesting that C-Dorys really are rough water boats including the 16' model? I plan to use it in the SF Bay and hope to take it outside the Golden Gate bridge, weather permitting. For those of you who are not familiar with the SF coastal waters the wind and waves can get hairy. I'd go out from time to time on a fishing boat and they turn back when it get's too rough. Anyways, if I get caught with my pants down I'd like to know that I can get back without any problem. A rough ride I can deal with but I'd like to know that I'm not chancing it with this boat. Has anyone had any experience in the 16' or 19' in 2,3,4,5,6+ waves??? Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated it. If you have a suggestion for a different make/model please let me know. |
A friend of mine in Alaska has a somewhat larger C-Dory. We went out into
some serious water with it. He launched, and recovered, into the largest waves I've ever seen. Seemed tippy, but never any worry about it actually rolling over. Dorys are designed that way...I know, since I built a small one once. Better be ready for the tippy feeling. There is a MSN Group site of c-dory owners who share their experiences. http://groups.msn.com/CDoryOwnersGroup Best ask your questions there, too..... -- RichG manager, Carolina Skiff Owners Group on MSN http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners .. |
I really appreciate the responses so far. I have check out c-brats and
the MSN newsgroup prior to posting. I was looking for neutral opinions as members of specific groups tend to give glowing reviews of what they own. I can't blame them and I'd probably do the same. On those board what I read are that they ARE rough water boats but the size and balsa core below water line really makes me think twice (the balsa is another issue but accoring to them there hasn't been a single case with soaked balsa) If someone else had some experience with these boats I'd really appreicate some more feed back. |
Louis wrote:
I really appreciate the responses so far. I have check out c-brats and the MSN newsgroup prior to posting. I was looking for neutral opinions as members of specific groups tend to give glowing reviews of what they own. I can't blame them and I'd probably do the same. On those board what I read are that they ARE rough water boats but the size and balsa core below water line really makes me think twice (the balsa is another issue but accoring to them there hasn't been a single case with soaked balsa) If someone else had some experience with these boats I'd really appreicate some more feed back. *************** Ok. Now I'm really confused. You want to discount the C-Brats website because you suspect people would not be candid about the boats they own, and then turn elsewhere looking for opinions...... and only from people who have actual experience with the boat....... What am I missing? :-) |
Doh! I lack finesse. Should I say "not so enthused about their boat
that they don't write about it"? But now I'm going to offend everyone on both sites. I'll stop while I'm ahead. *************** Ok. Now I'm really confused. You want to discount the C-Brats website because you suspect people would not be candid about the boats they own, and then turn elsewhere looking for opinions...... and only from people who have actual experience with the boat....... What am I missing? :-) |
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On 10 Feb 2005 16:49:27 -0800, "louis" wrote:
Doh! I lack finesse. Should I say "not so enthused about their boat that they don't write about it"? But now I'm going to offend everyone on both sites. I'll stop while I'm ahead. I understood what you thought you said but didn't say when you said it. My mind works that way sometimes. :) To be honest, this may not be the boat for you if you intend to do what you said you wanted to do. In fact for the type of weather you indicated, you might be better off with a Cabo or Ocean 50/60 footer instead of a 16 foot dory. The best weather for that C-dory you spoke of is light chop, little wind and a relatively placid day. Look around for something bigger with a V hull and moderate deadrise. Good luck. Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... To be honest, this may not be the boat for you if you intend to do what you said you wanted to do. In fact for the type of weather you indicated, you might be better off with a Cabo or Ocean 50/60 footer instead of a 16 foot dory. The best weather for that C-dory you spoke of is light chop, little wind and a relatively placid day. Look around for something bigger with a V hull and moderate deadrise. Good luck. Tom I don't think Louis will find a 50-60 footer for $10k or less, at least not one that I'd want to go out in. One thing I've always noticed about C-Dory boats is that they aren't very beamy. I think Louis could expand his search to include other Pacific Northwest boats such as Arima (www.arimaboats.com/frames) and Sea Sport (www.seasportboats.com). In the price-range you're looking at, you'll probably be in late 1980s and 1990s models. I have a 17' Arima Sea Ranger that I take across the Columbia River bar (http://www.columbiariverbarpilots.co...seas/Page.html )in the summer. It handles the chop well up to about that generated by a 20 knot wind. The conditions at the San Francisco entrance can be pretty snotty, but if you use common sense and don't press your luck, a 17 to 19 foot boat will be fine. Good luck and welcome aboard! |
I would *not* want to be out on any of those photos except for the
sunset. Those conditions is what I would consider nightmare conditions! Thanks for the link to Arima. Never heard of them but their hard top 19 is definitly something in the lines of what I'm looking for. Much thanks! Snafu wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... I don't think Louis will find a 50-60 footer for $10k or less, at least not one that I'd want to go out in. One thing I've always noticed about C-Dory boats is that they aren't very beamy. I think Louis could expand his search to include other Pacific Northwest boats such as Arima (www.arimaboats.com/frames) and Sea Sport (www.seasportboats.com). In the price-range you're looking at, you'll probably be in late 1980s and 1990s models. I have a 17' Arima Sea Ranger that I take across the Columbia River bar (http://www.columbiariverbarpilots.co...seas/Page.html )in the summer. It handles the chop well up to about that generated by a 20 knot wind. The conditions at the San Francisco entrance can be pretty snotty, but if you use common sense and don't press your luck, a 17 to 19 foot boat will be fine. Good luck and welcome aboard! |
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:10:01 -0800, "Snafu"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . To be honest, this may not be the boat for you if you intend to do what you said you wanted to do. In fact for the type of weather you indicated, you might be better off with a Cabo or Ocean 50/60 footer instead of a 16 foot dory. The best weather for that C-dory you spoke of is light chop, little wind and a relatively placid day. Look around for something bigger with a V hull and moderate deadrise. Good luck. Tom I don't think Louis will find a 50-60 footer for $10k or less, at least not one that I'd want to go out in. Just an illustration. One thing I've always noticed about C-Dory boats is that they aren't very beamy. I think Louis could expand his search to include other Pacific Northwest boats such as Arima (www.arimaboats.com/frames) I like the 19' Sea Ranger - reasonable deck for a boat of it's type - reasonably wide at 8' - nice boat. and Sea Sport (www.seasportboats.com). They look like Pacific boats only in fiberglass. It's funny how the manufacturer's up in that area of the woods, even the ones who make aluminum boats, all seem to work off the same design concepts. Then again, a lot of the East Coast boats look alike. Later, Tom |
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:10:01 -0800, "Snafu"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . To be honest, this may not be the boat for you if you intend to do what you said you wanted to do. In fact for the type of weather you indicated, you might be better off with a Cabo or Ocean 50/60 footer instead of a 16 foot dory. The best weather for that C-dory you spoke of is light chop, little wind and a relatively placid day. Look around for something bigger with a V hull and moderate deadrise. Good luck. Tom I don't think Louis will find a 50-60 footer for $10k or less, at least not one that I'd want to go out in. One thing I've always noticed about C-Dory boats is that they aren't very beamy. I think Louis could expand his search to include other Pacific Northwest boats such as Arima (www.arimaboats.com/frames) and Sea Sport (www.seasportboats.com). In the price-range you're looking at, you'll probably be in late 1980s and 1990s models. I have a 17' Arima Sea Ranger that I take across the Columbia River bar (http://www.columbiariverbarpilots.co...seas/Page.html )in the summer. It handles the chop well up to about that generated by a 20 knot wind. The conditions at the San Francisco entrance can be pretty snotty, but if you use common sense and don't press your luck, a 17 to 19 foot boat will be fine. Good luck and welcome aboard! I've always liked the Sea Sport. The Arima is a nice looking boat too. Hadn't seen one before. Thanks for the site. $35K for a 22'er isn't a bad price. The 22 foot Grady is almost twice that. John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
"louis" wrote in message ups.com... I would *not* want to be out on any of those photos except for the sunset. Those conditions is what I would consider nightmare conditions! The pictures on that link were probably taken in the winter, and definitely on a hard ebb tide, the worst time to cross the bar (that applies here and SF). Thanks for the link to Arima. Never heard of them but their hard top 19 is definitely something in the lines of what I'm looking for. Much thanks! There are a lot of Arima boats around up here, and I've also seen quite a few advertised in Northern California in www.boattraderonline.com. Good luck! |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... One thing I've always noticed about C-Dory boats is that they aren't very beamy. I think Louis could expand his search to include other Pacific Northwest boats such as Arima (www.arimaboats.com/frames) I like the 19' Sea Ranger - reasonable deck for a boat of it's type - reasonably wide at 8' - nice boat. Yeah, I really like that about the Arimas. Even the 17 footer has an 8' beam -- shaped like a pumpkin seed, but very stable. and Sea Sport (www.seasportboats.com). They look like Pacific boats only in fiberglass. It's funny how the manufacturer's up in that area of the woods, even the ones who make aluminum boats, all seem to work off the same design concepts. Then again, a lot of the East Coast boats look alike. I've always found the regional looks interesting, too. You can see it in commercial fishing boats and tugs, too. I guess they evolve to suit the area. Later, Tom |
I am the proud owner of a 22' C-Dory and have been an active member on the
C-Dog site for years. (I started the original C-Dog site about five years ago.) Mine is an '87 but I've added all new engines and electronics over the last five years. The flat bottom is not made for chop and I simply slow down when it gets too choppy. I've been on 4 foot+ waves on Suisun Bay a number of times and the boat handles well. I never get that "sinking" feeling aboard mine. I've spent many nights on board anchored in various spots on the California Delta. Lots of info on my C-Dory and the projects and mostly my fishing at my homepage below. -- Dale Gillespie formerly MowerKing on recboats. My Homepage: http://groups.msn.com/FishWishersHom..._whatsnew.msnw My RV Site: http://groups.msn.com/CoachpotatosRV..._whatsnew.msnw "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On 10 Feb 2005 16:03:19 -0800, wrote: |
Hey Dale,
Good to hear from you. Have you taken your C-Dory outside Golden Gate brige before or know of anyone who was caught out there when the weather picked up? I'm interested in the 16' and would like to know if it's as seaworthy as the 22'. C-dory website doesn't really talk about the differences in the model except for the dimensions. Have you heard of anyone with experience in it? When I read posts at c-dory newsgroup they rarely specify what model they have so I can never figure out who has the 16' or the 22' model. Happy boating. Louis FishWisher wrote: I am the proud owner of a 22' C-Dory and have been an active member on the C-Dog site for years. (I started the original C-Dog site about five years ago.) Mine is an '87 but I've added all new engines and electronics over the last five years. The flat bottom is not made for chop and I simply slow down when it gets too choppy. I've been on 4 foot+ waves on Suisun Bay a number of times and the boat handles well. I never get that "sinking" feeling aboard mine. I've spent many nights on board anchored in various spots on the California Delta. Lots of info on my C-Dory and the projects and mostly my fishing at my homepage below. -- Dale Gillespie formerly MowerKing on recboats. My Homepage: http://groups.msn.com/FishWishersHom..._whatsnew.msnw My RV Site: http://groups.msn.com/CoachpotatosRV..._whatsnew.msnw "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On 10 Feb 2005 16:03:19 -0800, wrote: |
On 12 Feb 2005 18:27:43 -0800, "louis" wrote:
Hey Dale, Good to hear from you. Have you taken your C-Dory outside Golden Gate brige before or know of anyone who was caught out there when the weather picked up? I'm interested in the 16' and would like to know if it's as seaworthy as the 22'. C-dory website doesn't really talk about the differences in the model except for the dimensions. Have you heard of anyone with experience in it? When I read posts at c-dory newsgroup they rarely specify what model they have so I can never figure out who has the 16' or the 22' model. Happy boating. Louis FishWisher wrote: I am the proud owner of a 22' C-Dory and have been an active member on the C-Dog site for years. (I started the original C-Dog site about five years ago.) Mine is an '87 but I've added all new engines and electronics over the last five years. The flat bottom is not made for chop and I simply slow down when it gets too choppy. I've been on 4 foot+ waves on Suisun Bay a number of times and the boat handles well. I never get that "sinking" feeling aboard mine. I've spent many nights on board anchored in various spots on the California Delta. Lots of info on my C-Dory and the projects and mostly my fishing at my homepage below. -- Dale Gillespie formerly MowerKing on recboats. My Homepage: http://groups.msn.com/FishWishersHom..._whatsnew.msnw My RV Site: http://groups.msn.com/CoachpotatosRV..._whatsnew.msnw "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On 10 Feb 2005 16:03:19 -0800, wrote: I moved up from a 15' er to a 21'er. Not the same make, but I can tell you that the extra 6 feet made a hell of a difference! John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
Louis,
I was out the Gate once with my C-Dory and had some steering problems after placing the wrong washer on the shaft after installing my Sportpilot. Headed back to Bezerkeley with my buddy sitting in the engine well, manually steering the boat by turning the engine. Not fun. The potato patch is no place to be with loose steering! And I've been on SF Bay a few times although I haven't been there in about three years. The vast majority of C-Dorys are 22 footers. But the 16 is considered pretty sea worthy in its own right, although I don't own one. Check out that freeboard for such a small boat. Pretty deep. -- Dale Gillespie My Homepage: http://groups.msn.com/FishWishersHom..._whatsnew.msnw My RV Site: http://groups.msn.com/CoachpotatosRV..._whatsnew.msnw "louis" wrote in message oups.com... Hey Dale, Good to hear from you. Have you taken your C-Dory outside Golden Gate brige before or know of anyone who was caught out there when the weather picked up? I'm interested in the 16' and would like to know if it's as seaworthy as the 22'. C-dory website doesn't really talk about the differences in the model except for the dimensions. Have you heard of anyone with experience in it? When I read posts at c-dory newsgroup they rarely specify what model they have so I can never figure out who has the 16' or the 22' model. Happy boating. Louis FishWisher wrote: I am the proud owner of a 22' C-Dory and have been an active member on the C-Dog site for years. (I started the original C-Dog site about five years ago.) Mine is an '87 but I've added all new engines and electronics over the last five years. The flat bottom is not made for chop and I simply slow down when it gets too choppy. I've been on 4 foot+ waves on Suisun Bay a number of times and the boat handles well. I never get that "sinking" feeling aboard mine. I've spent many nights on board anchored in various spots on the California Delta. Lots of info on my C-Dory and the projects and mostly my fishing at my homepage below. -- Dale Gillespie formerly MowerKing on recboats. My Homepage: http://groups.msn.com/FishWishersHom..._whatsnew.msnw My RV Site: http://groups.msn.com/CoachpotatosRV..._whatsnew.msnw "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On 10 Feb 2005 16:03:19 -0800, wrote: |
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