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Check out this Great New Trawler
Charm, Elegance & Speed in a new Breed of passagemaker Trawler. Yes Speed - no reason lollygagging around when you can extend your crusing area. Free Beneteau Brochure Download http://www.boaterslife.com/?visual=3...=6&article=293 |
On 5 Feb 2005 08:12:25 -0800, "BoatMan"
wrote: Charm, Elegance & Speed in a new Breed of passagemaker Trawler. Yes Speed - no reason lollygagging around when you can extend your crusing area. I'll be the judge of that - give me one to use this summer and I'll let you know. Later, Tom |
BoatMan wrote:
Charm, Elegance & Speed in a new Breed of passagemaker Trawler. Yes Speed - no reason lollygagging around when you can extend your crusing area. Free Beneteau Brochure Download http://www.boaterslife.com/?visual=3...=6&article=293 ********************* Sorry, but no semi-displacement hull running 20 kt can be considered a passage maker. Coastal cruiser, OK. What's the range on that boat at 20kt? 250nm? Yeah, sure, you can slow down to 7kt- and badly punish the engines as a result. If it's from Beneteau, it could easily be a good boat. If Beneteau has been building powerboats in Europe for all these years, they should know by now that a "fast trawler" is typically unfit for LRC. Is the "passagemaker" adjective a factory claim, a reviewer's loose use of the term, or a retailer's fantasy? I guess one could say that crossing the harbor to the cocktail bar is a "passage", and that if you arrive safely you "made" the passage.... :-) Likely a very nice boat, but shouldn't be promoted for what it rather obviously is not. |
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I always thought "Trawler"s were supposed to look like a Tug or a
shrimp boat? |
Karen Smith wrote one line that was not a personal attack and therefore
worth repeating: Besides lots of cruisers "passage make" on a 250 mile range, coastal passage making is as valid as ocean crossing. ********** See my comment about "Coastal cruiser, OK". Don't know about down in your section of the planet, but nobody up here routinely refers to a boat with very short range as a "passage maker". I was just guessing that the range might be 250 nm at 20kt. Bet I'm not all that far off, though. Yeah, you can define crossing the local reservoir as a "passage"- but not in the classic or most widely accepted sense of the word. |
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 21:50:53 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On 5 Feb 2005 11:50:30 -0800, wrote: a "fast trawler" is typically unfit for LRC. Is the "passagemaker" adjective a factory claim, a reviewer's loose use of the term, or a retailer's fantasy? =============================== It's like sailing. Everyone talks about passage making and crossing oceans with their sail boat but only about 1% do. It's just good marketing to appeal to the other 99% and ignore the reality. Besides, we all know that trawlers are cool looking, right? I've never understood the appeal of these type boats. It wouldn't be something that I would buy. The new Nordic Tugs are just ugly. Gaudy even. Later, Tom |
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On 5 Feb 2005 19:04:01 -0800, "Tim" wrote:
I always thought "Trawler"s were supposed to look like a Tug or a shrimp boat? =============================== Those are REAL trawlers as opposed to the recreational type. :-) There are a few recreational trawlers fitted with outrigger type stabilizers and they look a bit more shrimpy but definitely lose something in the way of esthetics in my opinion. |
Wayne.B wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 23:02:46 -0800, wrote: Don't know about down in your section of the planet, but nobody up here routinely refers to a boat with very short range as a "passage maker". I was just guessing that the range might be 250 nm at 20kt. Bet I'm not all that far off, though. =================================== I agree. A boat of that size and weight will typically burn between 2 and 3 gallons of diesel per mile at 20 kts. 1,000 gallons of fuel would give you a safe working range of 250 to 400 miles. My guess is that it doesn't even carry that much. A real "passage maker" as opposed to a coastal cruiser or dock condo would typically have a working range in excess of 1,000 miles. Most large sport fishing boats have a range of 400 miles and no one has ever suggested that they were passage makers. In reality 20 knots is going to be too uncomfortable and most longer trips will be at somewhere between 8 and 10 knots, giving typically between 1 and 2 mpg. Semidisplacement boats can be very economomic at low speeds. Having the power available to go faster in calm conditions is nice to have, but comes a price in terms of the fuel consumption of a large engine not being optimised for slow running and the need for regular blasts at full power to blow out the sooting. -- My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently deleted. Send only plain text. |
On 5 Feb 2005 08:12:25 -0800, "BoatMan"
wrote: Charm, Elegance & Speed in a new Breed of passagemaker Trawler. Yes Speed - no reason lollygagging around when you can extend your crusing area. Free Beneteau Brochure Download http://www.boaterslife.com/?visual=3...=6&article=293 The manufactuar gave me on of these for a long term sea trial, while I was in Itay for the summer. Nice cruiser. |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:09:30 -0500, hkrause wrote:
I always smile when someone in a gold-plate trawler tells me how much money he is saving by going slow. "Why, yes...my $1,000,000 Grand Banks only burns 1.7 gallons of diesel an hour...it's really cheap to operate." But I am sure it is fun. ===================================== Our excuse was that my wife wanted a boat big enough for kids and grand kids. Of course the brokers after hearing that would want to know how many grandchildren we had. The answer is zero but she wants to be prepared just in case. Very few if any of the Grand Banks are suited to offshore passage making even though the fuel range might be adequate. They are great boats for extended coastal cruising however which is the way we will use ours, until the grandchildren arrive of course. Our GB49 with twin DD671s burns from 5 gph to 20 gph depending on how fast you run it. Fast is a relative term of course but even at fuel sipping speed it's faster than any sailboat we ever owned, and a whole lot more economical than feeding a pair of 454 gas engines. |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:49:55 +0000, Chris Newport
wrote: In reality 20 knots is going to be too uncomfortable and most longer trips will be at somewhere between 8 and 10 knots, giving typically between 1 and 2 mpg. Semidisplacement boats can be very economomic at low speeds. Having the power available to go faster in calm conditions is nice to have, but comes a price in terms of the fuel consumption of a large engine not being optimised for slow running and the need for regular blasts at full power to blow out the sooting. ========================================== Exactly right on both points which is why we ended up with a GB49 trawler instead of a Hatt 53 motor yacht. My experience on offshore runs has been that anything over 12 kts gets uncomfortable when the seas are more than 3 feet or so, which if common. All of the motor yachts and sportfish in that size range have turbo engines which demand some full power running time to keep them operational. Naturally aspirated 671s however will run almost forever at 1200 RPM and regularly do so in commercial generator service. |
I always smile when someone in a gold-plate trawler tells me how much
money he is saving by going slow. "Why, yes...my $1,000,000 Grand Banks only burns 1.7 gallons of diesel an hour...it's really cheap to operate." LOL! Thats like my Chiropractor bought a new small Mercedes (I don't know the model) because he wanted a good "economy" car, yeah , he shelled out about $65,000 for it... fool! |
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Yup
When I was in Rome, I did what the Romans would do,, I just played it low and was approached by the largest boat dealer in the world, nice fella, we did a lot of lunches but he offered me an opportunity to turn it around and after I turned it around I turned his firm around and was rewarded based on incremental business and bam,,, I owned the firm and with that came the 60 footer I just had to turn the key on, had a crew that took me bass fishing and the little darling got to sun bath on the deck,, yup, I sold all that when the little darling needed some dental work along with a new set of breasts. Them dam things aint cheap,,,They are just about as useless as tits on a bull I might add also,, Ooops ,,, here she comes now,,, tootaaluuu "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... On 5 Feb 2005 08:12:25 -0800, "BoatMan" wrote: Charm, Elegance & Speed in a new Breed of passagemaker Trawler. Yes Speed - no reason lollygagging around when you can extend your crusing area. Free Beneteau Brochure Download http://www.boaterslife.com/?visual=3...=6&article=293 The manufactuar gave me on of these for a long term sea trial, while I was in Itay for the summer. Nice cruiser. |
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 16:07:00 -0500, DSK wrote:
Everyone wants to dream about crossing oceans, and want a boat that they *could* do it in, if they weren't tied down with commuter traffic, mortgage payments, & committee meetings. =========================================== Those are some of the excuses. The reality is that offshore sailing is a darn tough way to travel unless you can always arrange for fair weather, down wind conditions. After 2 or 3 days of bashing into head seas, healed over at 20 to 30 degrees, with the interior of the boat beginning to resemble a rain forest, smelling like a barnyard, and the owner nursing broken ribs from being cabin tossed, a lot of the romance goes out of it. |
Everyone wants to dream about crossing
oceans, and want a boat that they *could* do it in, if they weren't tied down with commuter traffic, mortgage payments, & committee meetings. Wayne.B wrote: Those are some of the excuses. The reality is that offshore sailing is a darn tough way to travel unless you can always arrange for fair weather, down wind conditions. After 2 or 3 days of bashing into head seas, healed over at 20 to 30 degrees, with the interior of the boat beginning to resemble a rain forest, smelling like a barnyard, and the owner nursing broken ribs from being cabin tossed, a lot of the romance goes out of it. Yes it does. It's expensive and tedious, uncomfortable to say the least (although 4 or 5 days of seasickness is a great weight-loss program) and can be scary. But it's good, there's nothing else like it! BTW one of the only things that brings out the Captain Bligh in me is "the cabin getting to resemble a barnyard." The boat must be kept clean & orderly at all times... emergencies at sea don't care if you're a bit pressed for time lately and haven't stowed everything properly, but you intend to soon. Right now is the only thing that matters. Fair Skies Doug King |
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:36:12 -0500, DSK wrote:
BTW one of the only things that brings out the Captain Bligh in me is "the cabin getting to resemble a barnyard." The boat must be kept clean & orderly at all times... emergencies at sea don't care if you're a bit pressed for time lately and haven't stowed everything properly, but you intend to soon. Right now is the only thing that matters. ================================================== So I guess you'd be upset if you ran the spinnaker up the mast halfway to Bermuda and two dirty socks and your coffee cup fell out on deck? Been there, done that. |
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:21:51 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:36:12 -0500, DSK wrote: BTW one of the only things that brings out the Captain Bligh in me is "the cabin getting to resemble a barnyard." The boat must be kept clean & orderly at all times... emergencies at sea don't care if you're a bit pressed for time lately and haven't stowed everything properly, but you intend to soon. Right now is the only thing that matters. ================================================= = So I guess you'd be upset if you ran the spinnaker up the mast halfway to Bermuda and two dirty socks and your coffee cup fell out on deck? Been there, done that. ROTFLMAO!!!!! Later, Tom |
Wayne.B wrote:
So I guess you'd be upset if you ran the spinnaker up the mast halfway to Bermuda and two dirty socks and your coffee cup fell out on deck? Been there, done that. I'd regard it as suitable punishment to lose the socks & coffee cup. Spinnakers are malevolent creatures anyway. Lost count of how many beers, hats, sunglasses, etc etc I've lost over the years on account of them. DSK |
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:29:49 -0500, DSK wrote:
Spinnakers are malevolent creatures anyway. Lost count of how many beers, hats, sunglasses, etc etc I've lost over the years on account of them. ============================ Yeah, but down wind without one is really sloooooow. King Neptune demands the occasional beer, hat and sunglasses sacrifice, otherwise he starts looking for bigger stuff. |
Spinnakers are malevolent creatures anyway. Lost count of how many
beers, hats, sunglasses, etc etc I've lost over the years on account of them. Wayne.B wrote: Yeah, but down wind without one is really sloooooow. Depends on the boat and on the course. Nothing like a honkin' spinnaker run for excitement, though! King Neptune demands the occasional beer, hat and sunglasses sacrifice, otherwise he starts looking for bigger stuff. Hmm, I didn't think of it that way. DSK |
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:48:32 -0500, DSK wrote:
Depends on the boat and on the course. Nothing like a honkin' spinnaker run for excitement, though! =========================== For sure unless it's a nice tight pole-on-the-head-stay reach with lots of weight on the rail. My old Cal-34 used to excel in those conditions. We had really stiff spectra after guys that would hold the pole an inch or two off without ever budging in the gusts. |
Depends on the boat and on the course. Nothing like a honkin' spinnaker
run for excitement, though! Wayne.B wrote: For sure unless it's a nice tight pole-on-the-head-stay reach with lots of weight on the rail. My old Cal-34 used to excel in those conditions. We had really stiff spectra after guys that would hold the pole an inch or two off without ever budging in the gusts. Ever had a reaching go ka-wham up into the rig? I hate it when that happens. Those tight reaches always seem faster than they really are, except in light air when it's the best way to build apparent wind. Nowadays a nice asymmetric, screecher, or Code 0 will point pretty high and not load up the rig. I never busted anything on those pole-to-forestay reaches, but always worried. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 18:28:28 -0500, DSK wrote:
Depends on the boat and on the course. Nothing like a honkin' spinnaker run for excitement, though! Wayne.B wrote: For sure unless it's a nice tight pole-on-the-head-stay reach with lots of weight on the rail. My old Cal-34 used to excel in those conditions. We had really stiff spectra after guys that would hold the pole an inch or two off without ever budging in the gusts. Ever had a reaching go ka-wham up into the rig? I hate it when that happens. Those tight reaches always seem faster than they really are, except in light air when it's the best way to build apparent wind. Nowadays a nice asymmetric, screecher, or Code 0 will point pretty high and not load up the rig. I never busted anything on those pole-to-forestay reaches, but always worried. I assume you guys are talking about a close reach? Later, Tom |
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:25:37 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: I assume you guys are talking about a close reach? ============================================= Sort of. To be a truly close reach the wind angle has to be forward of the beam and that generally requires a jib or specially cut reaching sail. On a tight spinnaker reach the apparent wind angle is forward of the beam because of the boat speed vector, but the true wind is usually at just about 90 degrees. |
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote
I assume you guys are talking about a close reach? Wayne.B wrote: Sort of. To be a truly close reach the wind angle has to be forward of the beam and that generally requires a jib or specially cut reaching sail. I'd agree. The "official" point of sail is with reference to the true wind, ie the wind as seen by an unmoving observer. The apparent wind, which is what the sails & sailors on the boat feel, is "bent" toward the bow by the boats speed. For example, ice boats are always going upwind by apparent wind even when they're going downwind by anybody else's point of view. ... On a tight spinnaker reach the apparent wind angle is forward of the beam because of the boat speed vector, but the true wind is usually at just about 90 degrees. Depends on how fast the boat is ;) In one small boat race a few years ago, we were on the same race course as the then-new Intra 20 cat, which flies a small flat spinnaker-like sail from a bowsprit on the downwind legs. They rounded the windward mark somewhat behind us, set this sail, and roared past us at a lower angle (relative to the wind) but with their sails pulled in almost as tight as for a beat. By the time we got to the gybe mark, they were at the leeward mark. BTW not sure it was clear from the context my earlier post should have said 'reaching STRUT' which is a piece of gear I've always found such a PITA that my fingers will barely type the word. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
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