Yam 200's life expectancy
 

I'm pondering (always will be) a boat with a pair of 1988 Yamaha 200's.
The seller says they have 1025 hours on them.
Assume they weren't used commercially and have been well taken care of.
What is the life expectancy (total hours) of these?
Lets say we call them obsolete when they drop more than 15% of their
original output. I'm in an area I know nothing about but some power loss
might be expected due to worn pistons, etc.
All I can think of is one motor dying about the first of July and getting
the boat back in the water around mid September.
I remember reading 10,000 hours for an inboard gas, maybe twice that for an
inboard diesel?

10000 hours on a gas inboard engine would be equivelant to 50 mph (fairly
average overall speed) x 10000 hours = 500000 miles. I don't think so.
Probably 3000 - 4000 hours is more realistic.
1025 hours in 16 years = 64 hours a year. Low to average overall.
Most engines if maintained properly, using good gas and oil, will run for
2000 hours or more before needing a rebuild.
I would not worry as much about the engines (assuming they check out ok in
terms of comression, lower unit, carbs, etc..).
I would worry more about the boat an the condition of any wood (stringers,
transom, seats, floor, etc) and electrical systems.

Tony


"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
I'm pondering (always will be) a boat with a pair of 1988 Yamaha 200's.
The seller says they have 1025 hours on them.
Assume they weren't used commercially and have been well taken care of.
What is the life expectancy (total hours) of these?
Lets say we call them obsolete when they drop more than 15% of their
original output. I'm in an area I know nothing about but some power loss
might be expected due to worn pistons, etc.
All I can think of is one motor dying about the first of July and getting
the boat back in the water around mid September.
I remember reading 10,000 hours for an inboard gas, maybe twice that for
an
inboard diesel?

I think 2000-3000 hours sounds realistic ... From hours and wear you
will have a gradual power loss. Catastrophic failkures are more due to
neglect and abuse or just age.

Have a compression tst done. This will tell you how much wear these
motors have.


Matt

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...

I'm pondering (always will be) a boat with a pair of 1988 Yamaha 200's.
The seller says they have 1025 hours on them.
Assume they weren't used commercially and have been well taken care of.
What is the life expectancy (total hours) of these?
Lets say we call them obsolete when they drop more than 15% of their
original output. I'm in an area I know nothing about but some power loss
might be expected due to worn pistons, etc.
All I can think of is one motor dying about the first of July and getting
the boat back in the water around mid September.
I remember reading 10,000 hours for an inboard gas, maybe twice that for
an
inboard diesel?

Sound like a lot of money you will be laying out here.

If you can, take them in and have the basic checks done on them, visual,
compression, spark, gearcase pressure and vacuum, test run, et al.... It may
cost you a few bucks, but these checks could save you a lot of hassle and
cost down the road.

Secondly, don't trust what the other person is telling you. He might not
even know there might be problems with these engines, as I just found out
the other day dealing with another product that was for sale. Just my visual
inspection told me this engine had many problems. The basic checks will tell
all.

Very reliable engines, the 150 and 200's seem to last. The most common
problem on this engine is first that the shift rod rusts badly at a spot
just below the powerhead where it becomes exposed below the cowling. It is
a rod about 1/4 in.diameter. If you see it heavily rusted then plan on
replacing it soon. Not hard to fix, but up to $1k per engine depending on
rusted bolts etc. The second problem is that the water pumps are so
reliable on these engines that many people go years without replacing them,
if ever. The pump might still be good, but the lower unit bolts seize and
could cost the whole lower. Make sure you can drop the lowers or readily
tell if if it has been done in the last few years. Other than that, if the
compression is within parameters, the engines have a very good tarck record.

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
I'm pondering (always will be) a boat with a pair of 1988 Yamaha 200's.
The seller says they have 1025 hours on them.
Assume they weren't used commercially and have been well taken care of.
What is the life expectancy (total hours) of these?
Lets say we call them obsolete when they drop more than 15% of their
original output. I'm in an area I know nothing about but some power loss
might be expected due to worn pistons, etc.
All I can think of is one motor dying about the first of July and getting
the boat back in the water around mid September.
I remember reading 10,000 hours for an inboard gas, maybe twice that for
an
inboard diesel?

Tell me a little about gearcase pressure and vacuum.

Sound like a lot of money you will be laying out here.

If you can, take them in and have the basic checks done on them, visual,
compression, spark, gearcase pressure and vacuum, test run, et al.... It
may
cost you a few bucks, but these checks could save you a lot of hassle and
cost down the road.

Secondly, don't trust what the other person is telling you. He might not
even know there might be problems with these engines, as I just found out
the other day dealing with another product that was for sale. Just my
visual
inspection told me this engine had many problems. The basic checks will
tell
all.

Pressure and vacuum are tests that can be performed on the gearcase to
verify no seals are leaking. However, you have to be very careful in
performing the test or you will cause a seal to begin leaking.

I have never actually performed this test on any boat I have had.
Once you run the boat in the water for a test run, check the gearcase oil
for any water. The water will come out first as it sinks to the bottom and
the oil will look brown to milky if there is a problem.


--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
Tell me a little about gearcase pressure and vacuum.

Sound like a lot of money you will be laying out here.

If you can, take them in and have the basic checks done on them, visual,
compression, spark, gearcase pressure and vacuum, test run, et al.... It
may
cost you a few bucks, but these checks could save you a lot of hassle and
cost down the road.

Secondly, don't trust what the other person is telling you. He might not
even know there might be problems with these engines, as I just found out
the other day dealing with another product that was for sale. Just my
visual
inspection told me this engine had many problems. The basic checks will
tell
all.

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...

Tell me a little about gearcase pressure and vacuum.

Jim and Becky,

It's a simple test, using a hand held air pump and another hand held vacuum
pump. But it's cost prohibited to purchase both pumps, unless you are a
service technician or you do this a lot and you love doing this type of work
in your shop.

The service manual will give you the specs for pressure and vacuum tests.
Usually the pressure test is about 10 to 13 PSI and about 3 PSI for the low
pressure test on some makes and models. Again, see your service manual and
don't take my word for it 100%, as I have not got the specs handy.

But the two tests will show if you have leakage in the gear case, and it
takes just minutes to do and is well worth the small cost. And as someone
else mentioned, draining the gear case of oil and examining the drained oil
is a good way to spot problems, as a gear case that has been leaking will
often show the fluid to be a brownish "milky" color, no different than water
being in the crankcase of a car engine.

Your service shop sounds like the place for you to be, especially with the
expensive purchase you intend to make. If this fella who is selling these
products had any smarts, he would have taken these engines and the boat in
to have the checks done, and gotten a printout to show that both engines and
the boat are in sound condition. That way, he could sell you these products
and he would know that they are sound and so would you.

Don't screw around with outboard engines. Often they look good, run good,
but a lot of times, the very basic checks point out serious troubles
internally and externally. Believe me, I've seen just about all in this
regard. I am sure others on this newsgroup can relate.

I hope it works out.

I have a couple of '84 150's. One I rebuilt in 2000 and
the other has had no major work. These are basically
the same as the 200 with a different carb.

They both run like tops. I baby them and inspect regularly.
The biggest problem is rust. These were manuf. before the Sal****er
Series and Im afraid the power heads are going to outlast
the Tilt/Trims, Shift rod, Steering arm, lower unit, etc..

Pull the props and inspect the large keeper (thrust?) ring
just inside the lower unit. This ring has a tendancy to
corrode in-place and crack the lower unit. I had to weld
one of my lower units' oil case shut.

I can find no mention of proper compression in any Yamaha manual
for these puppies other than they should all be within a few psi and
mine are. The rebuild being slightly higher of course.

I would guess they are worth somewhere in the neighborhood
of $1000 - $1500 ea.

Oh yea...

Do loosen and and re-tighten the lower unit bolts occasionally.

Enjoy!

db~that reminds me, Its about time to start thinking about de-winterizing
and
spring inspection.





"Mark" Boatbasin@optonline(remove this).net wrote in message
...
Very reliable engines, the 150 and 200's seem to last. The most common
problem on this engine is first that the shift rod rusts badly at a spot
just below the powerhead where it becomes exposed below the cowling. It
is
a rod about 1/4 in.diameter. If you see it heavily rusted then plan on
replacing it soon. Not hard to fix, but up to $1k per engine depending on
rusted bolts etc. The second problem is that the water pumps are so
reliable on these engines that many people go years without replacing
them,
if ever. The pump might still be good, but the lower unit bolts seize and
could cost the whole lower. Make sure you can drop the lowers or readily
tell if if it has been done in the last few years. Other than that, if
the
compression is within parameters, the engines have a very good tarck
record.

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
I'm pondering (always will be) a boat with a pair of 1988 Yamaha 200's.
The seller says they have 1025 hours on them.
Assume they weren't used commercially and have been well taken care of.
What is the life expectancy (total hours) of these?
Lets say we call them obsolete when they drop more than 15% of their
original output. I'm in an area I know nothing about but some power loss
might be expected due to worn pistons, etc.
All I can think of is one motor dying about the first of July and
getting
the boat back in the water around mid September.
I remember reading 10,000 hours for an inboard gas, maybe twice that for
an
inboard diesel?

Anyone know what psi reading I should expect on these 1988 200's?
On a new engine?
An engine that I probably don't want?


"D. Bailey" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of '84 150's. One I rebuilt in 2000 and
the other has had no major work. These are basically
the same as the 200 with a different carb.

They both run like tops. I baby them and inspect regularly.
The biggest problem is rust. These were manuf. before the Sal****er
Series and Im afraid the power heads are going to outlast
the Tilt/Trims, Shift rod, Steering arm, lower unit, etc..

Pull the props and inspect the large keeper (thrust?) ring
just inside the lower unit. This ring has a tendancy to
corrode in-place and crack the lower unit. I had to weld
one of my lower units' oil case shut.

I can find no mention of proper compression in any Yamaha manual
for these puppies other than they should all be within a few psi and
mine are. The rebuild being slightly higher of course.

I would guess they are worth somewhere in the neighborhood
of $1000 - $1500 ea.

Oh yea...

Do loosen and and re-tighten the lower unit bolts occasionally.

Enjoy!

db~that reminds me, Its about time to start thinking about de-winterizing
and
spring inspection.

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
Anyone know what psi reading I should expect on these 1988 200's?
On a new engine?
An engine that I probably don't want?

You should not be concentrating on absolute compression reading, The
compression reading will depend on humidity, air pressure, cranking speed
(battery charge) and a host of other factors. You should be concentrating
on the difference between the cylinders, a range within 5 psi is what you
ared looking for.

OK I agree, but if all six cylinders have 70-80 psi isn't there a problem?
I'm thinking the 120-140 psi range is what I'm looking for based of
something I read long ago.
Hence my latest question.


"Mark" Boatbasin@optonline(remove this).net wrote in message
...

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
Anyone know what psi reading I should expect on these 1988 200's?
On a new engine?
An engine that I probably don't want?

You should not be concentrating on absolute compression reading, The
compression reading will depend on humidity, air pressure, cranking speed
(battery charge) and a host of other factors. You should be concentrating
on the difference between the cylinders, a range within 5 psi is what you
ared looking for.

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...

OK I agree, but if all six cylinders have 70-80 psi isn't there a
problem?

It could very well be. Was that the reading? Check your service manual.
The specs will be in there.

I'm thinking the 120-140 psi range is what I'm looking for based of
something I read long ago.
Hence my latest question.

Keep in mind, also, you are only allowed a certain percentage variation
between cylinders and that varies from make of engine and model etc..
Again, get a service manual. Or call the dealership. Get the correct
specs. If you don't know, you will be in trouble. A compression test
will detect the most basic defects and wear. On some engines, having a
high compression reading could mean having carbon build up, but that
mostly happens on lower RPM engines like Tecumseh or B&S engines. If
it's a EFI that should not be happening mind you. Still, get the specs,
look for variation and low compression. Anything that is out of spec,
run away from - unless you can get it dirt cheap.

It depends on the engine and what the manufacture lays out to you. 5
PSI may be acceptable for some engines and not others. It will be in
the "book". Or at least it should be.

I don't know the exact number for that particular year/engine. However, it
should be between 120 and 130.

If you get much below 120 I would be suspicious. Pick up a light scope
(small light on a flexible line) so you can see inside the cylinder. You
can see if there are any scratches in the cylinder walls around the intake
and exhaust ports.

Most problems occure on the intake port side due to water and/or poor
oiling.

Most problems occure on the exhaust side and or top of piston due to low
octane fuel/lean condition.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
wrote in message
oups.com...
"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...

OK I agree, but if all six cylinders have 70-80 psi isn't there a
problem?

It could very well be. Was that the reading? Check your service manual.
The specs will be in there.

I'm thinking the 120-140 psi range is what I'm looking for based of
something I read long ago.
Hence my latest question.

Keep in mind, also, you are only allowed a certain percentage variation
between cylinders and that varies from make of engine and model etc..
Again, get a service manual. Or call the dealership. Get the correct
specs. If you don't know, you will be in trouble. A compression test
will detect the most basic defects and wear. On some engines, having a
high compression reading could mean having carbon build up, but that
mostly happens on lower RPM engines like Tecumseh or B&S engines. If
it's a EFI that should not be happening mind you. Still, get the specs,
look for variation and low compression. Anything that is out of spec,
run away from - unless you can get it dirt cheap.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:32:14 -0500, "Jim and Becky"
wrote:

I'm pondering (always will be) a boat with a pair of 1988 Yamaha 200's.
The seller says they have 1025 hours on them.

I have four of these on my 26' ranger. darn good engines.

Assume they weren't used commercially and have been well taken care of.
What is the life expectancy (total hours) of these?

These will run for 102k hours beforte a top end rebuild is needed.
look at a bottom end rebuild after about 600k hours.

Lets say we call them obsolete when they drop more than 15% of their
original output. I'm in an area I know nothing about but some power loss
might be expected due to worn pistons, etc.

One of thae bad things about these engines, it that the cams wear
down. this is where the power loss comes from. Simply replace the
cams, and you will be back at full power.

All I can think of is one motor dying about the first of July and getting
the boat back in the water around mid September.
I remember reading 10,000 hours for an inboard gas, maybe twice that for an
inboard diesel?

More like four times more. At least, that has been my experience.

"tony thomas" wrote in message
news:Oh5Nd.51517$eT5.37379@attbi_s51...
I don't know the exact number for that particular year/engine. However, it
should be between 120 and 130.

If you get much below 120 I would be suspicious. Pick up a light scope
(small light on a flexible line) so you can see inside the cylinder. You
can see if there are any scratches in the cylinder walls around the intake
and exhaust ports.

Most problems occure on the intake port side due to water and/or poor
oiling.

Most problems occure on the exhaust side and or top of piston due to low
octane fuel/lean condition.

Thanks, Tony. Yes, often (especially in a salt water used engine) you can
get a blockage from salt in the powerhead and that can cause over heating
and a virtual "frying" of the cylinder(s). It can happen even before the
powerhead in the copper water tube coming from the pump. I had a Merc. 90 HP
2-stroke with the water tube collapsed from salt at the base of the
powerhead and that restricted the water flow by about 50%, effectively
destroying that powerhead by over heating. I did rebuild it myself and I got
it going again for about $1500.00 in parts and machining for the complete
engine and gear case. Basically, it was a total rebuild of about 18 hours.
It runs just fine now. In fact, it's got a great deal of "snap" :-) And much
cheaper than a new unit. It's on the back of a 22' Boston Whaler now and 55
MPH is not a problem.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
wrote in message
oups.com...
"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...

OK I agree, but if all six cylinders have 70-80 psi isn't there a
problem?

It could very well be. Was that the reading? Check your service manual.
The specs will be in there.

I'm thinking the 120-140 psi range is what I'm looking for based of
something I read long ago.
Hence my latest question.

Keep in mind, also, you are only allowed a certain percentage variation
between cylinders and that varies from make of engine and model etc..
Again, get a service manual. Or call the dealership. Get the correct
specs. If you don't know, you will be in trouble. A compression test
will detect the most basic defects and wear. On some engines, having a
high compression reading could mean having carbon build up, but that
mostly happens on lower RPM engines like Tecumseh or B&S engines. If
it's a EFI that should not be happening mind you. Still, get the specs,
look for variation and low compression. Anything that is out of spec,
run away from - unless you can get it dirt cheap.

My rebuild runs around 105psi and the non-rebuild
tops out around 95-98.

Again, This ABSOLUTELY does vary depending on
lots of factors than Im aware of such as,
hot/cold, throttle open or not, day of the week,
time of day, etc.

really.

I think this is why my book is so vauge on the subject. I
use it to look for trends and to compare cylinders more
than anything else.

70-80 does sound too low and 10psi is too large of a range
I think. Your lower cylinders will read a bit lower.

db


"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
OK I agree, but if all six cylinders have 70-80 psi isn't there a problem?
I'm thinking the 120-140 psi range is what I'm looking for based of
something I read long ago.
Hence my latest question.


"Mark" Boatbasin@optonline(remove this).net wrote in message
...

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
...
Anyone know what psi reading I should expect on these 1988 200's?
On a new engine?
An engine that I probably don't want?

You should not be concentrating on absolute compression reading, The
compression reading will depend on humidity, air pressure, cranking
speed
(battery charge) and a host of other factors. You should be
concentrating
on the difference between the cylinders, a range within 5 psi is what
you
ared looking for.