"riverman" wrote in message
...

I agree wholeheartedly. I would even guess that the majority of 'lifetime
boaters' are primarily self-taught. Maybe they used something formal to
get
started, but probably not. I think the type of person who needs the
external
structure of a formal training situation is not the type of person to have
the self-motivation to keep at it. (The river slang for those folks is
'Boy
Scout' g) OTOH, the type of person who is willing to get in a boat and
'figger it out' will be the type of person who continues getting into a
boat, imnsho.

Virtually all of the people I paddle with have gone through some kind of
class. I highly recommend classes, even though I didn't have one to start. I
learned very much when I started assisting classes that I should have
learned 10 years earlier. Students in our club classes learn all these
things in several weeks.

These people learn how to be safe, and if they get through the class, they
tend to stick around.

Bob

Bob wrote:

Virtually all of the people I paddle with have gone through some kind of
class. I highly recommend classes, even though I didn't have one to start. I
learned very much when I started assisting classes that I should have
learned 10 years earlier. Students in our club classes learn all these
things in several weeks.

These people learn how to be safe, and if they get through the class, they
tend to stick around.

I also started out trying to learn how to paddle with a student club
with mostly inexperienced instructors (who were little more than newbies
themselves in many respects). I learned a lot through getting in trouble
and swimming out of it. It wasn't untill my first kayaking holiday (nine
months after I started kayaking) that I learned some real skills by
experienced instructors. I learned more in that one week than in the
previous nine months. Having picked up some bad habits in the mean time,
I also had to unlearn some things. :-(

Still, I learned a lot (in the past decade or so) about paddling through
trial and error. I just get better at getting out of the errors
unscathed. ;-)

Wilko

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

Virtually all of the people I paddle with have gone through some kind of
class. I highly recommend classes, even though I didn't have one to
start. I
learned very much when I started assisting classes that I should have
learned 10 years earlier. Students in our club classes learn all these
things in several weeks.

These people learn how to be safe, and if they get through the class,
they
tend to stick around.

I also started out trying to learn how to paddle with a student club
with mostly inexperienced instructors (who were little more than newbies
themselves in many respects). I learned a lot through getting in trouble
and swimming out of it. It wasn't untill my first kayaking holiday (nine
months after I started kayaking) that I learned some real skills by
experienced instructors. I learned more in that one week than in the
previous nine months. Having picked up some bad habits in the mean time,
I also had to unlearn some things. :-(

Still, I learned a lot (in the past decade or so) about paddling through
trial and error. I just get better at getting out of the errors
unscathed. ;-)

I too learned a lot through trial and error. I learned to roll quickly.
Which was lucky, since I didn't have a solid left side brace until I got rid
of the feathered paddle more than a year later. Which ensured that I
practiced my roll a lot. Which resulted in it being pretty bombproof.

Our area club has had ACA certified instructors for quite a few years now.
They really do give excellent instruction, and on river trips they are often
close to 1/1 student/assistant ratio. It's a good way to learn, as I'm sure
any of the students would agree.

It does pay to make sure that the more experienced paddlers on trips you go
on know that you want suggestions. That's the continuing education that's
done the most for me.

Bob

"Bob" ) writes:

These people learn how to be safe, and if they get through the class, they
tend to stick around.

"get through" as in "survive"?


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"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...

"Bob" ) writes:

These people learn how to be safe, and if they get through the class,
they
tend to stick around.

"get through" as in "survive"?

More a matter of sticking to it. A lot of people discover they just don't
have the mental attitude necessary for the sport. It really is a sport that
is not for everyone.

Bob

"Bob" ) writes:

"get through" as in "survive"?

More a matter of sticking to it. A lot of people discover they just don't
have the mental attitude necessary for the sport. It really is a sport that
is not for everyone.

Just curious but how do you tell if they don't like the sport or just
don't like the lessons? (I know which it is I like.) And how do you
know they don't keep paddling on their own after dropping out of lessons?
Does some global paddling control organization follow up them through the
rest of their lives? Big brother, stationary orbital tracking, .... ?



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"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...

"Bob" ) writes:

"get through" as in "survive"?

More a matter of sticking to it. A lot of people discover they just don't
have the mental attitude necessary for the sport. It really is a sport
that
is not for everyone.

Just curious but how do you tell if they don't like the sport or just
don't like the lessons?

An excellent thought William (speaking as an educator who has from time to
time made the same mistake of blaming the subject instead of the lesson).

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...

"Bob" ) writes:

"get through" as in "survive"?

More a matter of sticking to it. A lot of people discover they just
don't
have the mental attitude necessary for the sport. It really is a sport
that
is not for everyone.

Just curious but how do you tell if they don't like the sport or just
don't like the lessons? (I know which it is I like.) And how do you
know they don't keep paddling on their own after dropping out of lessons?
Does some global paddling control organization follow up them through the
rest of their lives? Big brother, stationary orbital tracking, .... ?

You can tell a lot by their response to the class river trips. Some people
are having a lot of fun. Others are petrified of everything. The second
group you tend to never run into on the river.

I guess I make assumptions based upon whether I see them again on the
rivers. Our club has a lot of trips on the schedule. Enthusiastic paddlers
usually use those trips to get out, to meet new paddling friends, and to
discover new rivers. Then, you also just run into them on the river. It's
not that big of a community, and certain rivers tend to draw crowds at
certain times. I am obviously operating on a subset of local paddlers. Those
that take lessons through the commercial operations may respond differently.
I do know that the club class I've helped with is an exceptionally
supportive environment to learn in.

Personally, I can't imagine not liking the lessons. They speed up the
learning process significantly, allowing people to paddle, brace, and roll
quickly and safely. This allow people to relax on the river, because they
know they can handle most problems early in their paddling career. They are
an excellent place to find paddlers with your same interests/inclinations. I
even know several couples who married after meeting in the classes.

Bob

I spent three years in Chiapas, Mex. living with the indians in their
villages. They played a communal sport, where they would kick a ball
like soccer down the trail, trying to get it to the opposing village.
The point was to intercept the opposing team before they got to your
village. Understand, the trails were narrow, and the hill sides steep
and vegetated. It seems that a great deal of time was spent running up
and down the side hills, trying to return the ball to the bounds of
the trail. These games would last for days, and usually only when one
side got totally exhausted. The whole village would come out to play or
watch, and even the watchers would bring food for their team. Everyone
would be shouting and laughing, and carrying on, and apparently having
a good time. Often times when the games got started, it was just a
couple of kids practicing on the trail. No organization, no team
uniforms, etc. They just knew each other, and where each belonged, and
when one team won, it was just for the bragging rights until they got
to playing again.

Now I share all this because we have our own concept of what is sports,
and how do you participate. For some paddling is not a sport, it is
something they do to live. For most of us I expect that it is more
elective. And being elective it is easy to decide that it is not
necessary, if it entails to many discomforts in comparison to the
benefits. Obviously we who are here on this board don't see it that
way.

We also live in a culture that promotes competetive spectator team
sports. Paddling does not generally fit that category, so we are
primarily counter-culture, at least the majority of USA. It may be
different in Canada, but then it wasn't that long ago that it was
considered major transportation in Canada, and maybe then does not have
the same allure for all. Especially when they get in a class, and learn
that it is not all that it is cracked up to be, and that their is some
hard lessons. For some it is communal participation, the spouse who
goes along for the ride.

All kinds of motives, and impossible to figure out for them, and
probably difficult for them to figure for themselves until they get
their feet wet! TnT