John Fereira wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1105919192.042039.143900
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:


John Fereira wrote:


BTW, to Tinkertom...where is the triple black diamond run at
Keystone?
When I skied there they only had one black diamond run and it was
pretty marginal for that classification.

There you go getting me confused with the facts. That was 15 years
ago
or so, and I thought it was Keystone, but then it might have been a
green run as well. All I remember was this human snowball slowly
rolling down the slope.

It's certainly not uncommon. If I remember correctly the only black
diamond
run at Keystone was also just under one of the main chairs that went
up the
mountain from the parking lot.

It couldn't have been very steep if he was slowly rolling. I've seen
quite
a few people fall on steep slopes, start sliding, and then begin to
gain
speed. There are a couple of runs at Squaw Valley (where I learned
to ski)
that are notorius for that (west face of KT-22 is one of them). The
biggest
problem is that once you've fallen you really have no control
whatsoever
once you start sliding. I know of a couple of instances where people
have
fallen, started sliding, and eventually hit a tree and died.


I will tell you another OT story, which is my favorite, and has to
do
with the worlds greatest athelete (well at least IMHO)


This has to do when I was learning to ski, and I was playing the
part
of the human snowball. I had taken 3 or 4 days of lessons, and the
instructor told me I just needed to go out and get time on the
slopes.

It's good advice for kayaking too.

BTW, have you read "Deep Trouble"? Considering your safety concerns
you
probably should. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the
book.

John, when your ski instructor tells you to get some longer skis, and
go out and get some time on the slope, that is pretty near the "Voice
of God" speaking. I know how old Noah felt when he was told to build a
boat, and I suspect that the same applies today when you are told to
get some time in the kayak. Question though, is it alright to wait for
the ice to thaw off of the lakes and streams. Most are pretty well
covered by hard water now.

Regarding wimpy Colorado ski runs, you may be right, and it seems that
I have heard this discussion before. I started skiing late, when 40,
and have skied about 100 days since then. My best ski buddy was Elmer
at Loveland who made the news every year since they reserved the number
one chair for him on opening day. At 70+ he was a great skier, and
skied most ever day. His attitude was that if he was having a good
time, what difference did it make what others thought of him, or how
tough Colorado runs were, though he did say it a little more
colorfully.

Having only skied here in Colorado, I can not compare the runs here to
anywhere else. Outhouse at Mary Jane is supposed to be pretty steep,
and a few others at MJ in the Railyard. Peak 10 at Brekenridge is
suppose to be pretty gnarly, and OutBack at Keystone. A-Basin is where
they hold the downhill speed trials, so if you want fast, that is the
place. Pavilcelli at A-Basin is nasty coming off the front side, often
times closed because not enough snow (too steep to hold it.) Crested
Butte holds some kind of extreme ski competition that has world class
skiers demonstrating ski carnage.

I can look forward to skiing some of the other areas such as Squaw Mtn,
Jackson Hole, or Utah, but for the time being, I definitly have a good
time in Colorado.

The back country skiing can be favorably compare to other areas. I saw
a guy jump off a cornice and land 150 ft down the mtn. and keep going.
So you may have to make your own Triple Diamond. One thing I learned
though is that snow conditions make a big difference. With the deep
powder we get here, the steepest slope could be easier than a nice
gentle green covered in ice. Back east where there is lots of ice,
skiing is a different experience altogether, and even the snow in
Sierras is different. I love the powder, the more the better!

As far as my story character rolling down the run, which was more of a
narrow gulch, with trees on each side. He had figured out that he did
not want to try going straight down. So he went side to side, and
occasionally took a header. His progress was slow, but his falls
dramatic. In the deep powder, he could not go fast, but he spent most
of his time digging skis out of the snow, after he had crawled back up
the hill to find them. Typical 2 steps forward, 1 or 1.5 back. Very
slow progress, and most of the time diving into the snow either as he
initially fell, or looking for his skis, and getting a thicker and
thicker coat of snow and ice as time went by.

I don't think that he had any food with him, and eventually he ran out
of energy and "hit the wall". That was when the hypothermia set in
because he could not generate enough heat to stay warm. He was pretty
incoherant the last time I saw him.

BTW, yes I have read Deep Trouble, and a lot of other books, and online
articles. A few years back when I started looking at kayaking as a way
to extend my fun, I was all excited about the prospects. That first
year, an aquaintance went WW kayaking, and caught a barbed wire fence
across his neck. Basically, took his head off, and sort of gave me a
wakeup call as to really think about what I was contemplating. Lots of
folks go kayaking, and have a good time, just don't lose your head over
it! TnT

"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1106014598.260382.303640
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

John Fereira wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1105919192.042039.143900
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:


John Fereira wrote:


BTW, to Tinkertom...where is the triple black diamond run at
Keystone?
When I skied there they only had one black diamond run and it was
pretty marginal for that classification.

There you go getting me confused with the facts. That was 15 years
ago or so, and I thought it was Keystone, but then it might have
been a green run as well. All I remember was this human snowball
slowly rolling down the slope.

It's certainly not uncommon. If I remember correctly the only black
diamond run at Keystone was also just under one of the main chairs
that went up the mountain from the parking lot.

It couldn't have been very steep if he was slowly rolling. I've seen
quite a few people fall on steep slopes, start sliding, and then begin
to gain speed. There are a couple of runs at Squaw Valley (where I
learned to ski) that are notorius for that (west face of KT-22 is one
of them). The biggest problem is that once you've fallen you really
have no control whatsoever once you start sliding. I know of a couple
of instances where people have fallen, started sliding, and eventually
hit a tree and died.


I will tell you another OT story, which is my favorite, and has to
do with the worlds greatest athelete (well at least IMHO)


This has to do when I was learning to ski, and I was playing the
part of the human snowball. I had taken 3 or 4 days of lessons, and
the instructor told me I just needed to go out and get time on the
slopes.

It's good advice for kayaking too.

BTW, have you read "Deep Trouble"? Considering your safety concerns
you probably should. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from
the book.

John, when your ski instructor tells you to get some longer skis, and
go out and get some time on the slope, that is pretty near the "Voice
of God" speaking.

Although I've taken quite a few kayaking lessons I never did take many
skiing lessons. I took one the first season and then about 8 years later
look some racing clinic classes. I haven't done much skiing in the last 10
years or so and still haven't bought a pair of the shorter shaped skis. I
still have a pair of Rossignol 3G kevlar giant slalom cut skis that are
203cm (which is pretty long for someone my size).

I know how old Noah felt when he was told to build a
boat, and I suspect that the same applies today when you are told to
get some time in the kayak. Question though, is it alright to wait for
the ice to thaw off of the lakes and streams. Most are pretty well
covered by hard water now.

Of course it's alright to wait. Have you looked into any local clubs that
might do winter pool sessions? The spot where I normally launch my boat
probably has a foot of ice on it now but a local group does pool sessions
once a month so I at least get to practice some rolls and help others learn
new skills.


Regarding wimpy Colorado ski runs, you may be right, and it seems that
I have heard this discussion before.

I really wasn't denigrating Colorado ski run ratings in general but I have
never seen a 3 diamond rating anywhere. I've seen a couple of places that
rated some very difficult runs as 2 diamond though.

I started skiing late, when 40,
and have skied about 100 days since then. My best ski buddy was Elmer
at Loveland who made the news every year since they reserved the number
one chair for him on opening day. At 70+ he was a great skier, and
skied most ever day. His attitude was that if he was having a good
time, what difference did it make what others thought of him, or how
tough Colorado runs were, though he did say it a little more
colorfully.

I ran into a guy in the lodge at Squaw Valley one time that asked to sit in
a chair at the table where I was seated. We got to talking and he gleefully
said that it was great weather for his first time this season. Actually,
what he meant was that it was the first time he had ever skied. He said he
was 65.


Having only skied here in Colorado, I can not compare the runs here to
anywhere else. Outhouse at Mary Jane is supposed to be pretty steep,
and a few others at MJ in the Railyard. Peak 10 at Brekenridge is
suppose to be pretty gnarly, and OutBack at Keystone. A-Basin is where
they hold the downhill speed trials, so if you want fast, that is the
place. Pavilcelli at A-Basin is nasty coming off the front side, often
times closed because not enough snow (too steep to hold it.) Crested
Butte holds some kind of extreme ski competition that has world class
skiers demonstrating ski carnage.

Colorado certainly compares favorably in terms of difficult runs to anywhere
I have skied. Breckenridge does indeed have some steep stuff and I spent
every day for four weeks skiing A-Basin, althought I thought there were a
couple of runs more difficult than Pavicelli (if you don't drop in off the
cornice).

I've skied several resorts in Colorado but still jones to ski "the plunge"
at Telluride.



I can look forward to skiing some of the other areas such as Squaw Mtn,
Jackson Hole, or Utah, but for the time being, I definitly have a good
time in Colorado.

If you get out west Squaw Valley is hard to beat but Alpine Meadows and
Kirkwood also have some really good challenging runs. I dislocated a thumb
on Olympic at Kirkwood (at the time rated the 4th longest/steepest run in
North America). I never have skied Utah but I've been to Jackson Hole and
was fortunate to get to ski Chamonix in the French Alps a couple of years
ago. I spent most of my early days skiing around Lake Tahoe, primarily at
Squaw Valley.


The back country skiing can be favorably compare to other areas. I saw
a guy jump off a cornice and land 150 ft down the mtn. and keep going.

I saw Steve McKinney (who held the fastest person on skis record a couple of
times) jump off a cornice at Squaw Valley. I expected him to turn after
landing but he just kept his skies pointing down the fall line. He was
really flying when he went by me.



BTW, yes I have read Deep Trouble, and a lot of other books, and online
articles. A few years back when I started looking at kayaking as a way
to extend my fun, I was all excited about the prospects. That first
year, an aquaintance went WW kayaking, and caught a barbed wire fence
across his neck. Basically, took his head off, and sort of gave me a
wakeup call as to really think about what I was contemplating. Lots of
folks go kayaking, and have a good time, just don't lose your head over
it! TnT

I hate it when that happens.

I have a friend, that thought he was a pretty good skier, and tried the
speed run at A-Basin. He wiped out, about half way down, and left a
trail of skiies and gear scattered along the almost mile long runnout.
When he stopped sliding, he just lay there, and we thought that he was
dead. Afterwards we ask him, and he said he just laid there because
after sliding for approx 3500 ft he was not sure himself whether he was
alive or not. Says he won't do that again! Gives you a real
appreciation for the masters!

Another book that I got to thinking about that I read, and which had a
major impact on me, was "Into the Void." It is amazing what the human
form is capable of bringing onto themselves, and how tough,
enterprising, and foolish we can be, all at the same time! I love the
mountains, and the high places, but I decided that the technical
climbing was for someone else, though I enjoy randonee skiing totally!
TnT