To MAYDAY or not to MAYDAY that is the question....
 

Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health....

But lets look at actual examples.

- Please give examples when you DID send a MAYDAY for yourself or
others? And / or fired a red (SOLAS) or one of the required invisible
flares?

- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering if
you should (have).

- Please MAKE UP examples where you would or would not send mayday or
launch a flare.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

Please share your opinion AND personal experience about right/wrong and
good/bad examples.

:) Matt

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?


No. Report to the CG that you have arrived on the scene and wait for
additional instructions or permission to leave.

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?


You have observed a situation that appears to place the vessel and or
the crew in imminent peril. A Mayday is appropriate for a boat drifting
toward rocks. If the vessel were merely drifting around in an open
area, far from any danger, it may be more of a hazard to navigation
than in immediate peril, and one of the less urgent radio calls might
then be appropriate.


- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?


That might be a judgment call. Was the "collision" just a glancing
broadside bump, or is there
evidence that one of the vessels is disabled and/or structurally
compromised? Myself, I'd wait a10-15 seconds to see if either vessel
reported the collision on the radio. (The last thing the CG needs is a
distant observer clogging up 16 when they could be getting first hand
information from somebody involved in the incident). Then I would make
probably one attempt to raise the vessels involved on the VHF to
inquire about the situation. Meanwhile, I'd change course to stand by
near enough to be useful- depending on the situation. Ultimately, if
one of the vessels appeared to be sinking, somebody was in the water,
or there was evidence of fire I would radio a Mayday to report a
serious collision. The key factor is whether a life or a vessel is in
immediate danger.

On 12 Jan 2005 12:52:27 -0800, wrote:

Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

generally, in NY harbor, we will dispatch a CG boat for the following
situations:

1. vessel fire
2. man overboard/person in the water
3. vessel allision (hitting a bridge, etc) or vessel collision, or
grounding
4. medical emergency
5. vessel taking on water

other situations, like being stalled in a channel with a danger of
collision, can also be a mayday.


- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering if
you should (have).

generally if you are wondering if you should send a mayday, SEND it.
the coast guard will follow up to decide whether it's a mayday. we
don't mind sending a boat. we'd rather send it when not needed, than
not send it when it's needed.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

no. call the CG. if you send a flare, someone's gonna call the CG
anyhow and report a flare, resulting in a CG vessel dispatch.

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

yep, based on criteria 3 above. if there is DANGER of a
collision/allison, send a mayday

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

yes, call mayday unless it's clear that no one is hurt and no vessels
are damaged.

Please share your opinion AND personal experience about right/wrong and
good/bad examples.

i'm a radio operator at CG station sandy hook, NJ.

---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:35:07 GMT, wrote:

On 12 Jan 2005 12:52:27 -0800, wrote:

Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health....



MAYDAY should not be used casually.

this is true. if your engine is dead and you're at anchor out of a
channel, the CG is not going to come and get you. this is not a
mayday. but if you are concerned about your vessel or life on board,
you can always call the CG and tell them your situation. they will
determine if a mayday is warranted.



---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field

wrote in message
oups.com...
Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health....

But lets look at actual examples.

- Please give examples when you DID send a MAYDAY for yourself or
others? And / or fired a red (SOLAS) or one of the required invisible
flares?

- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering if
you should (have).

- Please MAKE UP examples where you would or would not send mayday or
launch a flare.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

Please share your opinion AND personal experience about right/wrong and
good/bad examples.

:) Matt


I'm an honest guy, so I'm going to be honest here. Based on your 3 examples,
I think you should not own a boat, if you don't know the answers to those 3
questions.

But this forum is (or should be) a safe spot to ask these questions and
learn the particulars with a very minimum amount of embarrassment.

Compare that to what was earned by some dummy a couple years ago who
cried out "MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY" in calm water and bright sunshine a
mile from Bayfield, Wisconsin who had run out of gas and couldn't figure
out why his boat wouldn't start.

Capt. Jeff

"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...
But this forum is (or should be) a safe spot to ask these questions and
learn the particulars with a very minimum amount of embarrassment.

Compare that to what was earned by some dummy a couple years ago who cried
out "MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY" in calm water and bright sunshine a mile from
Bayfield, Wisconsin who had run out of gas and couldn't figure out why his
boat wouldn't start.

Capt. Jeff

The only reason for a mayday call is if you run out of bait. But seriously:

1) You see someone fall off a bridge. Attract others with a flare first? I
don't think so. Call someone capable of arranging for MAJOR help and fast,
like the CG. If the victim survived the fall, they have only have a matter
of minutes to live. While making the call, you haul ass over there, and tell
the CG that now, you need to free up your hand and get to work.

2) Wait till the drifting boat crashes into the cliff? What??? No. Make the
mayday call immediately, then get over there and do something, if possible.
Unless the CG is right around the corner, they may need 9 of those 10
minutes to arrive.

3) Two boats collided: Same as #2.

In all 3 cases, someone will arrive who has the ability to jump in (possibly
cold) water without killing themselves.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health....

But lets look at actual examples.

- Please give examples when you DID send a MAYDAY for yourself or
others? And / or fired a red (SOLAS) or one of the required invisible
flares?

- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering if
you should (have).

- Please MAKE UP examples where you would or would not send mayday or
launch a flare.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

Please share your opinion AND personal experience about right/wrong and
good/bad examples.

:) Matt



I'm an honest guy, so I'm going to be honest here. Based on your 3
examples, I think you should not own a boat, if you don't know the
answers to those 3 questions.


That's not reasonable, Doug, as this is a discussion forum, and the posed
questions certainly are better than "I just paid $300 for a 1971
Bilgeliner, and I notice it leaks badly. Should I get my money back?"

Or, better, "I'm a cop whose wife is a crossdressing manicurist and we
need a name for our boat...got any suggestions?"


OK. You're right. I jumped too fast. But, shouldn't the HUSBAND be the
crossdressing manicurist, like NOYB?

This were made up examples to get a discussion. I did not say I dont
know an answer to these questions. I wanted to know how others think
about it. Also i find this disuccion in this group more useful than
political discussions.

Since there are quiet a few different answers here, maybe only you
should own a boat.

Maybe only the people that rip around not being concerned about
anything not asking questions (because they surely know everything)
should own a boat?
Maybe it should be up to you to decide who should own a boat?


Matt

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health....

But lets look at actual examples.

- Please give examples when you DID send a MAYDAY for yourself or
others? And / or fired a red (SOLAS) or one of the required invisible
flares?

- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering if
you should (have).

- Please MAKE UP examples where you would or would not send mayday or
launch a flare.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

Please share your opinion AND personal experience about right/wrong and
good/bad examples.

:) Matt



I'm an honest guy, so I'm going to be honest here. Based on your 3
examples, I think you should not own a boat, if you don't know the
answers to those 3 questions.


That's not reasonable, Doug, as this is a discussion forum, and the posed
questions certainly are better than "I just paid $300 for a 1971
Bilgeliner, and I notice it leaks badly. Should I get my money back?"

Or, better, "I'm a cop whose wife is a crossdressing manicurist and we
need a name for our boat...got any suggestions?"


OK. You're right. I jumped too fast. But, shouldn't the HUSBAND be the
crossdressing manicurist, like NOYB?


Hey....I apologized. You can own a boat. :-) But, nothing over 80 feet for
now.

The only reason for a mayday call is if you run out of bait. But
seriously:

1) You see someone fall off a bridge. Attract others with a flare
first? I
don't think so. Call someone capable of arranging for MAJOR help and
fast,
like the CG. If the victim survived the fall, they have only have a
matter
of minutes to live. While making the call, you haul ass over there,
and tell
the CG that now, you need to free up your hand and get to work.

The coast guard DID send the alert, so they knew, just nobody else.
Since there was no other boat anywhere close until maybe 10-20 minutes
LATER it seems that nobody has heard the call.


2) Wait till the drifting boat crashes into the cliff? What??? No.
Make the
mayday call immediately, then get over there and do something, if
possible.
Unless the CG is right around the corner, they may need 9 of those 10

minutes to arrive.

The question is if you know you can get there before they crash and
just tow them back, do you need to alert the force? Will they come and
say: You idiot, why did you call us?
Also you can just call CG and tell them on channel 16 whats going on.
Mayday would attract others.

Again this is to talk about these things that people that dont kow
EVERYTHING and what to do in EVERY situation learn.

But I think the people who do not know EVERYTHING should much rather
shut up and be embarssed.

Matt

wrote in message
ups.com...



2) Wait till the drifting boat crashes into the cliff? What??? No.
Make the
mayday call immediately, then get over there and do something, if
possible.
Unless the CG is right around the corner, they may need 9 of those 10

minutes to arrive.

The question is if you know you can get there before they crash and
just tow them back, do you need to alert the force? Will they come and
say: You idiot, why did you call us?
Also you can just call CG and tell them on channel 16 whats going on.
Mayday would attract others.

Maybe someone else has a boat that can get there faster, especially through
rough water.

wrote:
Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to
ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health.

"Mayday" is a distress call indicating that a vessel or person is in
grave or imminent danger (of loss of life or property) and is
requesting immediate assistance. Key qualifiers here are "grave" or
"imminent" and the need for immediate assitance to get out of the
sitiuation.

But lets look at actual examples.

- Please give examples when you DID send a MAYDAY for yourself or
others? And / or fired a red (SOLAS) or one of the required invisible
flares?

I have called for assitance for others, and responded to calls. I have
never made a "Mayday" call as I have never been a position to need to.

- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering
if
you should (have).

- Please MAKE UP examples where you would or would not send mayday or
launch a flare.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the
water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

No flare. The Coast Guard knows where the problem is - that's how you
found out. Contact the Coast Guard, tell them you are there, tell them
what you observe (For example: "I have not seen a victim, but I am
looking...")

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I
know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

Did the boat signal you indicating they are in distress? If they did,
the correct signal would be "mayday relay" as you are not the one in
distress but you are relaying a distress call. However, if your
relaying the message in good faith for what appears to be bonafide case
of distress, nobody will likely quibble about the term you used.

Given the information in your example, I might call the Coast Guard and
tell them that I see what may be an emergency, but I would not use the
"mayday" distress signal.

If what I saw really appeared to be a problem, I might broadcast an
urgent message with the "pan pan" urgency signal.

It should be noted that it is not appropriate to direct a distress
call. Don't call "Mayday Mayday Mayday," then say "Come in Coast
Guard." A distress call means you want help from anyone that can hear
you if possible.

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

"Pan pan," broadcast what you have seen and indicate you are going
there. Someone may be closer but didn't see it happen and your message
may alert them. After your call, the Coast Guard will likely contact
you and ask for more information or confirm what they copied.

Unless I saw fire, or other obvious signs of imminent danger to the
boats' occupants, I would not use "mayday."

On 12 Jan 2005 12:52:27 -0800, wrote:

Guys,

in the boatless :( wintertime I have lots of time on my hands to ponder
about theoretical questions like this:

I wonder in what situations should we send a MAYDAY and/or fire a red
parachute flare (not the little flare)?

I know the official lingo: If there is a threat to life or health....

But lets look at actual examples.

- Please give examples when you DID send a MAYDAY for yourself or
others? And / or fired a red (SOLAS) or one of the required invisible
flares?

- Please give examples where you DID not do such but were wondering if
you should (have).

- Please MAKE UP examples where you would or would not send mayday or
launch a flare.

Examples:

- I respond to a CG call that someone fell off a bridge (in the water).
I get there, nobody else is there. Flare to attract others?

- I see a powerboat drifting under wind and waves into a cliff. I know
it WILL be nasty but isnt yet. My ETA would be 10 minutes. Wait, til
they crash, then mayday? Wait til they crash, go there, then mayday?

- From the distance I see that 2 boats collided, but dont kow if
anybody got hurt. Mayday or go there first?

Please share your opinion AND personal experience about right/wrong and
good/bad examples.

:) Matt

I issued a Pan-Pan to CG last summer of Boston Harbor.
I was scuba diving with another guy and being new to the sport I was
uncomfortable ( cold and current ) and I called the dive off early.

He went back down alone and was down a hell of a long time ( about 25
minutes.) I thought that was a very long time because I thought he had
the same tank of air. I hadn't noticed that he had switched tanks
while I was getting my gear off.... so... getting very nervous I
decided to put the CG on standby with a Pan-Pan. Luckily the diver
surfaced a few minutes after ( still with plenty of air,) and I called
off the distress call.

Lesson learned...better communication next time.

As for the diving solo...well, thats another story and not too
dangerous in the area that we were in for an experienced diver in my
opinion, but that gets all talked out on rec.scuba.

John C.

:) Matt

I issued a Pan-Pan to CG last summer of Boston Harbor.
I was scuba diving with another guy and being new to the sport I was

Meant to say just outside of Boston Harbor, or off Boston Harbor.