|
albin 28 flush deck
I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315
yanmar? |
"fishless" wrote in message lkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. |
"LaBomba182" wrote in message ... Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhost. talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? |
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:10:57 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"LaBomba182" wrote in message ... Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhost .talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? That's advertised and based on what I've seen in other publications, it's fairly consistent. I'll tell you, I would buy one of the Master Marine CC in a heartbeat if I had the need for it. You cannot imagine the ride these things have in a heavy sea - it's amazing. Even for a relatively narrow beamed boat, it was pretty stable. I think it's the length and the extremely long forefoot with the sharp dead rise that allows it to ride so nicely. Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:10:57 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "LaBomba182" wrote in message ... Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhos t.talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? That's advertised and based on what I've seen in other publications, it's fairly consistent. I'll tell you, I would buy one of the Master Marine CC basskisser has a Master Master marine CC. |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: Harry Krause A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill So the ads claim. Interesting boat, really, but unfortunately made by the Moonies. Seriously!? And as I recall the similar size Shamrock with a Cummins ran at about the same speed and fuel burn. Capt. Bill |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "NOYB" "LaBomba182" wrote in message ... Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhost .talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? No their ad. I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they test one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. Capt. Bill Capt. Bill |
LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhost. talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-) Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx" gals?? or a standard US gal??? Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague "testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers. The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to remain uncorrected. These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will drop their fuel consumption to nil:-) so you can forget all about the mystical "top end burning" in gph terms for even 1 straight hour:-). However even if 11gph were true it raises a much more difficult question, fore it would mean these engines are only making about 180-190 HP flat out!!!; sad really when they're marketed as 315 hp diesels. If that engine really is using say 7 USgal/hr it's probably not making much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what 4-5 ton???, "cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40 mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice. Be skeptical of the magazines they're the source of much false information & those that then repeat it unquestioningly are only demonstrating their own lack of experience. Needless to say we even have one here who continues to write it even though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just marketing BS from BS'ers. Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits you:-) K |
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:48:13 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:
Yes...True World Marine is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of Rev. Moon's operations. I first saw one of these boats some years ago at the Miami boat show, and was interested...and did a little checking. Here's some info you might find interesting: I don't know, Harry, but isn't this just another flavor of the Rev. Jim Melnyk? |
Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote: LaBomba182 wrote: Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message lkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-) Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx" gals?? or a standard US gal??? Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague "testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers. The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to remain uncorrected. Actually, the inexperienced simpleton is you. Most of the boating magazines that publish "testing results" know how to hook up and read a fuel flow meter. And their writers actually have access to boats. Unlike you. Dear dear dear again Krause you confirm what a liar you are & certainly not a boat owner of any boat much less of a 36ft lobster boat with a big Cummins inside Also try to keep in mind my OBs like Yanmar use Toyota diesels as the core, so I just "might" have better first hand knowledge of this than most here; but hey always happy to check anything, so what on the point information have you got to say????? what?? nothing on the fuel usage grams/KW/hr??? nothing???......nothing at all??? as usual. The particular injection pump used on these engines is high bypass, so if any of these magazine simpletons tell you they "hook up & read a fuel flow meter" for one of their marketing "tests" on these indeed most marine diesels (NB not all), just giggle; as we do. You might one day own a real boat Krause, instead of your endless lies then by all means come along here & join in the boating discussions this can be a good informative NG, gee it'll help even you to learn a bit about boats. Till then............ If you want confirmation what a load of marketing fluff these magazine tests are mostly written by simpletons for simpletons, have a read of some of your mates spam posted he-) K |
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:53:35 -0500, thunder
wrote: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:48:13 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Yes...True World Marine is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of Rev. Moon's operations. I first saw one of these boats some years ago at the Miami boat show, and was interested...and did a little checking. Here's some info you might find interesting: I don't know, Harry, but isn't this just another flavor of the Rev. Jim Melnyk? As in the Rev. Jim Meany being a Nazi? Later, Tom |
Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote: Harry Krause wrote: K. Smith wrote: LaBomba182 wrote: Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message lkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to remain uncorrected. Actually, the inexperienced simpleton is you. Most of the boating magazines that publish "testing results" know how to hook up and read a fuel flow meter. And their writers actually have access to boats. Unlike you. Also try to keep in mind my OBs like Yanmar use Toyota diesels as the core, so I just "might" have better first hand knowledge of this than most here; but hey always happy to check anything, so what on the point information have you got to say????? what?? nothing on the fuel usage grams/KW/hr??? nothing???......nothing at all??? as usual. You don't know feces from shoepolish. My comment was that the magazines that actually do testing of fuel flow or consumption actually do these tests and come up with legitimate figures. and that they don't just make up numbers and publish them. If I read an evaluation of the boat in question in Boating, and it was accompanied by "test" results, I would be those results would be for real. While the magazine doesn't publish a lot of negative info about the boats it looks over, it doesn't fake statistical data on boat tests. I didn't say "they" faked it what I did say & maintain is; The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, they're just too inexperienced to challenge what they're told!! Again so that even you may understand, a fuel flow check will tell you how much fuel some (NB some) petrol engines are using & the "flow" meters are reasonably accurate. However when it comes to diesel engines it's more complicated, certainly it's possible to set up a flow meter to give you the fuel used readout, but it's more than any of your magazine simpletons know about, so they never do it (because they can't:-)) What they do is just parrot the numbers given them by the seller!!! without any understanding or warning that this number might be just marketing BS. Indeed right there any magazine worth anything would be saying gee this claim is unsubstantiated in any real fashion, unchecked by us & is inconsistent with the known HP vs diesel consumption requirements of boats in this class, if the seller wants to promote the number it probably means most everything else they say is suspect??? Is it that anything else they know can't or won't readily be checked is also BS??? Is the hull layup & materials as claimed??? the base metal of the fittings?? the work quality in general???? Hmmm a magazine could get a real rep with readers, not so good with the advertisers they're really chasing. You claim to be in "union publishing" yet you don't even seem to have a clue about that Krause, the "magazines" get 2/5 or 3/8 of not much back from magazine "sales" to dreamers like you, after the distribution, retailer, returns etc in other words their income is from "paid" advertising, & that's why they are just another arm of marketing. How hard is it to go back to the engine manufacture or do the numbers themselves, not only will the most basic of effort uncover the fuel consumption numbers are a lie but worse, given the known state of how diesel engines work in this universe the spruiked numbers are impossible. Remember chucky's "test" on the other 28ftr??? a load of parroted marketing BS nothing more. I believe the fuel flow figures quoted by the original poster were from an ad, not from an independent test. Your OBs? What a crock of crap. Your claim that you "manufacture" some sort of diesel outboard is nothing but bullship. No one has ever seen one, no one has ever seen an ad for one, no one has ever seen a plant where you "manufacture" them, no one has ever seen a box in which you've shipped one, and there's no readily available information around that indicates you have any involvement in a going venture that manufactures anything. That monstrosity of a rusty kit-based "outboard" that you depict on the back of your clapped-out, piece of crap boat wouldn't sell as a boat anchor. Dear dear dear you're a jealous little liar aren't you?? I have never & don't make claims, however as far as Toyota based diesel marine engines go I do claim to have some understanding; but hey if anyone else wants to claim they use them & have different numbers, well let's hear it I'll be very very interested. Diesel engines are much more fuel efficient that petrol engines HP vs HP but they are also "mostly" (not all) heavier HP vs HP the raw numbers would say you can save 25-30% on fuel consumption using a diesel, but the extra weight etc etc means you will more likely see something closer to 20% because it takes more HP to push a heavier boat & the faster a boat is traveling the more impact any extra weight has. A 28ft boat doing 40 mph on 11 usgals/hr is just away with the fairies stuff & any experienced boat person would immediately call it for what it is, just as I call you as an uneducated lying union thug. K |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith" LaBomba182 wrote: Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhost .talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-) Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx" gals?? or a standard US gal??? Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague "testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers. I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to remain uncorrected. Yeah, yeah and they're all published on a grass knoll. These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will drop their fuel consumption to nil:-) so you can forget all about the mystical "top end burning" in gph terms for even 1 straight hour:-). However even if 11gph were true it raises a much more difficult question, fore it would mean these engines are only making about 180-190 HP flat out!!!; sad really when they're marketed as 315 hp diesels. If that engine really is using say 7 USgal/hr it's probably not making much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what 4-5 ton???, 6800 lb dry. "cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40 mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice. Be skeptical of the magazines they're the source of much false information & those that then repeat it unquestioningly are only demonstrating their own lack of experience. Needless to say we even have one here who continues to write it even though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just marketing BS from BS'ers. Instead of running the numbers, get one and hook up a flow meter and get back to us. Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits you:-) I celabrate Festivus, thanks. And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance? Capt. Bill |
LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" LaBomba182 wrote: Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "NOYB" "fishless" wrote in message news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhos t.talkaboutboats.com... I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-) Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx" gals?? or a standard US gal??? Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague "testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers. I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they "know" at cruise & max. Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller is .... well selling. "If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at "max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams per HP per hour. The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to remain uncorrected. Yeah, yeah and they're all published on a grass knoll. Gee you have the front or ego or both:-) to put "capt." in your sig yet you fall for this marketing nonsense?? You better get some real boating experience or are you just another Krause style magazine dreamer???:-) These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will drop their fuel consumption to nil:-) so you can forget all about the mystical "top end burning" in gph terms for even 1 straight hour:-). However even if 11gph were true it raises a much more difficult question, fore it would mean these engines are only making about 180-190 HP flat out!!!; sad really when they're marketed as 315 hp diesels. If that engine really is using say 7 USgal/hr it's probably not making much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what 4-5 ton???, 6800 lb dry. Again are you really going to accept this nonsense?? 5600lbs dry which is still optimistic but with no anything, no engines drives liquids etc etc etc yet you swallow this??? 4 tonnes is probably about right or you can just magazine dream on. Again with trailer boats (this is) how hard is it for them (magazines) to take it to any public weighbridge & have the numbers actually checked in the condition it's so called "tested"?? well that wouldn't be good for sales would it???:-) "cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40 mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice. Be skeptical of the magazines they're the source of much false information & those that then repeat it unquestioningly are only demonstrating their own lack of experience. Needless to say we even have one here who continues to write it even though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just marketing BS from BS'ers. Instead of running the numbers, get one and hook up a flow meter and get back to us. It's certainly possible we do it all the time with diesels, but it's not a simple thing to do & that's why your dumbo magazines think they can get away with just parroting what the seller spruiks, as I said post the link as to how they checked the fuel usage at the various speeds as they claim???? I can assure you it's bunkum of the first order, but what is more serious is you are so inexperienced you actually believe it!!:-) Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits you:-) I celabrate Festivus, thanks. And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance? "Capt" I love it!!! capt gullible I bet you sit in the armchair with your magazines wearing a capt. cap:-) K Capt. Bill |
WaIIy wrote:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:39:51 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they "know" at cruise & max. Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller is .... well selling. "If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at "max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams per HP per hour. PowerBoat reports does state this, but I don't think they installed their own meters. The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World data. Thanks Wally, so there ya go no actual knowledge of how much fuel the boat burnt at various speeds etc. Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... Thing is it's one thing for brand loyal owners to write fairy tale testimonials, even the seller I guess will try to put the best spin possible on every aspect of the boat, but the magazines claim to know & be experienced in this stuff & they clearly aren't. By just repeating the sellers marketing spruik they are part of a deception but to then try to pretend they have checked the numbers?? well it seems they're knowingly part of the marketing deception. Those figures should have at the very least set alarm bells off, but they haven't even checked??? Hmmmm curiouser & curiouser said Alice; hey!!!! "maybe" (NB maybe) they did & it didn't come out even remotely close to claim (it wouldn't), then of course the seller says yes yes sorry about that chief;-) dirty bottom, wrong wind/sea state, full tanks, test boat you know think the prop copped a knock, it's Wednesday, every & any excuse will be proffered all BS of course but nudge nudge wink wink:-) K. |
Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption
data. Competition keeps them honest. A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is generally published for a standard set of conditions. Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings. Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about everyone honest. In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Perhaps life in Oz is different. Butch "K. Smith" wrote in message ... WaIIy wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:39:51 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they "know" at cruise & max. Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller is .... well selling. "If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at "max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams per HP per hour. PowerBoat reports does state this, but I don't think they installed their own meters. The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World data. Thanks Wally, so there ya go no actual knowledge of how much fuel the boat burnt at various speeds etc. Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... Thing is it's one thing for brand loyal owners to write fairy tale testimonials, even the seller I guess will try to put the best spin possible on every aspect of the boat, but the magazines claim to know & be experienced in this stuff & they clearly aren't. By just repeating the sellers marketing spruik they are part of a deception but to then try to pretend they have checked the numbers?? well it seems they're knowingly part of the marketing deception. Those figures should have at the very least set alarm bells off, but they haven't even checked??? Hmmmm curiouser & curiouser said Alice; hey!!!! "maybe" (NB maybe) they did & it didn't come out even remotely close to claim (it wouldn't), then of course the seller says yes yes sorry about that chief;-) dirty bottom, wrong wind/sea state, full tanks, test boat you know think the prop copped a knock, it's Wednesday, every & any excuse will be proffered all BS of course but nudge nudge wink wink:-) K. |
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:10:42 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote: Perhaps life in Oz is different. Of course it is. They are upside down. And they talk funny. :) Later, Tom - who is waiting for the relatives and kids to arrive for the annual holiday extended family reunion. I'm SO glad there is football this afternoon. |
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:28:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:10:42 GMT, "Butch Davis" wrote: Perhaps life in Oz is different. Of course it is. They are upside down. And they talk funny. :) Later, Tom - who is waiting for the relatives and kids to arrive for the annual holiday extended family reunion. I'm SO glad there is football this afternoon. I figured out what is missing in your life... You need a somewhat winterized boat with a nice cabin, a heater, a couch and a TV set...on which you have to head out to to do endless maintenance... Yes - yes I do. Later, Tom |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith" Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the numbers. And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall. And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data? Capt. Bill |
LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the numbers. How would the owner know?? save you properly test how would any owner know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise". The owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the first place, so ............. And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall. Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a "capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome. So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20% more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry) "have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-) And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data? I don't have to prove anything I'm not the one making totally over the top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt." Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if nothing else:-) So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP = 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on 6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 - 120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right to you???? http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...curves_4.2.htm 320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt. similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient HP for HP wow!!!!!!! http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7 355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others & remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as good as it gets in our pleasure boat world. http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engi...erformance.cfm 275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr) Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause; your magazine articles & dreams. K Capt. Bill |
Butch Davis wrote:
Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. Agreed & that's exactly why Yanmar "aren't" making this claim, some seller & dreamers' magazine are. A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is generally published for a standard set of conditions. Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings. Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about everyone honest. So now you're saying that the magazines don't actually "test" diesel??? OK progress at last!!! They certainly word their claims like they already know they're suspect numbers, the infamous chuckster's "about" gallons, in his world they must be huge, how many litres in a chuckster gallon??? or gees louise I suppose there's chuckster litres there too??:-) In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Yes that's true & I'm well familiar with fuel consumption of marine diesels that's why when just strolling past the thread I near fell over. So now all you or anyone need do is find a proper Yanmar link which claims anything like 315HP on 11 usgal/hr, I can't but hey Butch you bought a Ficht so I'm sure you'll lead us all to one in a jiff. Perhaps life in Oz is different. I'll say it is!!! here that sort of BS marketing nonsense went out years ago. Any experienced diesel boat person would just giggle in their face, our fuel is dearer than yours so .................. we bother to find out the facts rather than rely upon spruikers claims, you should try it, oops too late you already have the Ficht:-) It's not my fault you lost so much money on the Ficht Butch, I'm just the messenger. Besides yours seemed to keep working so you just lost boat value; got off lighter than you deserve in my view:-) K Butch "K. Smith" wrote in message ... WaIIy wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:39:51 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they "know" at cruise & max. Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller is .... well selling. "If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at "max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams per HP per hour. PowerBoat reports does state this, but I don't think they installed their own meters. The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World data. Thanks Wally, so there ya go no actual knowledge of how much fuel the boat burnt at various speeds etc. Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... Thing is it's one thing for brand loyal owners to write fairy tale testimonials, even the seller I guess will try to put the best spin possible on every aspect of the boat, but the magazines claim to know & be experienced in this stuff & they clearly aren't. By just repeating the sellers marketing spruik they are part of a deception but to then try to pretend they have checked the numbers?? well it seems they're knowingly part of the marketing deception. Those figures should have at the very least set alarm bells off, but they haven't even checked??? Hmmmm curiouser & curiouser said Alice; hey!!!! "maybe" (NB maybe) they did & it didn't come out even remotely close to claim (it wouldn't), then of course the seller says yes yes sorry about that chief;-) dirty bottom, wrong wind/sea state, full tanks, test boat you know think the prop copped a knock, it's Wednesday, every & any excuse will be proffered all BS of course but nudge nudge wink wink:-) K. |
Thanks, Harry. Just what I was going to point out to the K. The HP an
engine makes is dependent upon the fuel it is flowing. If a boat is running at cruise speed the engine is far from operating at WOT, and is therefore flowing far less fuel than that required to make the rated HP. Clearly the K failes to read the entire data sheet... she simply looks for anything that supports her position and presents it as though it is the only fact(?) that matters. It's too funny that she rants about the money I've lost because I bought a FICHT in 1999. I'll have been running the engine for six years this spring. No problems have appeared of any kind. My only expense has been for fuel and oil and annual lower unit oil changes. Call me a liar, I changed plugs as a preventive maintenance action last March at my annual maintenace interval. I may rework the water pump this spring but probably not. Our climate allows me to use the boat year round so idle time is not an issue. I've no idea how much cost I've avoided through increased fuel and oil economy. Depreciation is a non-factor for a boat/engine of this age and if my health continues to allow I'll run this rig for many more years. What's with the K and FICHT? BTW, K, Where did you read in anything I wrote that I admit that magazines do not do fuel flow testing on diesels. It is such an amazingly simple test to run that I can't imagine why they would not run the test? Happy Holidays. Butch "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... K. Smith wrote: Butch Davis wrote: Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. Agreed & that's exactly why Yanmar "aren't" making this claim, some seller & dreamers' magazine are. A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is generally published for a standard set of conditions. Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings. Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about everyone honest. So now you're saying that the magazines don't actually "test" diesel??? OK progress at last!!! They certainly word their claims like they already know they're suspect numbers, the infamous chuckster's "about" gallons, in his world they must be huge, how many litres in a chuckster gallon??? or gees louise I suppose there's chuckster litres there too??:-) In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Yes that's true & I'm well familiar with fuel consumption of marine diesels that's why when just strolling past the thread I near fell over. So now all you or anyone need do is find a proper Yanmar link which claims anything like 315HP on 11 usgal/hr, I can't but hey Butch you bought a Ficht so I'm sure you'll lead us all to one in a jiff. http://www.yanmarmarine.com/products..._TechnData.pdf The URL listed above shows the 315 hp Yanmar produces about 250 hp at 3400 rpm and burns around 11 gph. The max rpm for the engine is 3800 rpm, but only an idiot would run that diesel higher than cruise for sustained periods. Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 gph at a high cruise rpm. |
Butch Davis wrote:
Thanks, Harry. Just what I was going to point out to the K. The HP an engine makes is dependent upon the fuel it is flowing. If a boat is running at cruise speed the engine is far from operating at WOT, and is therefore flowing far less fuel than that required to make the rated HP. Seems impossible I know but are you as mad as Krause??? Again the claim is at a 22 mph cruise it uses 6-7 usgal/hr & at "max" the boat does 40 mph on 11 usgal/hr. Why are you thanking the lying idiot?? he posted crap about a totally different engine, an engine with a max power of 260 HP!!! NOT 315 HP or are you so stupid you think the engine that makes 315 HP doesn't use any more fuel??? Clearly the K failes to read the entire data sheet... she simply looks for anything that supports her position and presents it as though it is the only fact(?) that matters. The data sheet is for a 248-260 HP engine & the fuel graph shows at max power it uses 16 usgal/hr (0.06153 usgal/hp/hr) which is much more than the Cummins & much much more than the Cat So now it seems these spruikers are even worse than I suspected, they really are using chuckster gals!!! So using their own figures at 315HP which is max it uses 19.38 usgal/hr!!! so their 11 gal/hr at max was is & until there's some huge technology breakthrough will remain just marketing BS for magazine dreamers like you & Krause. It's too funny that she rants about the money I've lost because I bought a FICHT in 1999. I'll have been running the engine for six years this spring. No problems have appeared of any kind. My only expense has been for fuel and oil and annual lower unit oil changes. Call me a liar, I changed plugs as a preventive maintenance action last March at my annual maintenace interval. I may rework the water pump this spring but probably not. Our climate allows me to use the boat year round so idle time is not an issue. I've no idea how much cost I've avoided through increased fuel and oil economy. Depreciation is a non-factor for a boat/engine of this age and if my health continues to allow I'll run this rig for many more years. What's with the K and FICHT? BTW, K, Where did you read in anything I wrote that I admit that magazines do not do fuel flow testing on diesels. It is such an amazingly simple test to run that I can't imagine why they would not run the test? I sorta agree but they DON'T!!! because they can't use a fuel flow meter & if the tank is anything but almost dry then their BS article won't be impressive enough so the advertising might suffer:-). Happy Hols to you to!!. K Happy Holidays. Butch "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... K. Smith wrote: Butch Davis wrote: Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. Agreed & that's exactly why Yanmar "aren't" making this claim, some seller & dreamers' magazine are. A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is generally published for a standard set of conditions. Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings. Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about everyone honest. So now you're saying that the magazines don't actually "test" diesel??? OK progress at last!!! They certainly word their claims like they already know they're suspect numbers, the infamous chuckster's "about" gallons, in his world they must be huge, how many litres in a chuckster gallon??? or gees louise I suppose there's chuckster litres there too??:-) In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Yes that's true & I'm well familiar with fuel consumption of marine diesels that's why when just strolling past the thread I near fell over. So now all you or anyone need do is find a proper Yanmar link which claims anything like 315HP on 11 usgal/hr, I can't but hey Butch you bought a Ficht so I'm sure you'll lead us all to one in a jiff. http://www.yanmarmarine.com/products..._TechnData.pdf The URL listed above shows the 315 hp Yanmar produces about 250 hp at 3400 rpm and burns around 11 gph. The max rpm for the engine is 3800 rpm, but only an idiot would run that diesel higher than cruise for sustained periods. Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 gph at a high cruise rpm. |
Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote: Butch Davis wrote: Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. Agreed & that's exactly why Yanmar "aren't" making this claim, some seller & dreamers' magazine are. A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is generally published for a standard set of conditions. Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings. Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about everyone honest. So now you're saying that the magazines don't actually "test" diesel??? OK progress at last!!! They certainly word their claims like they already know they're suspect numbers, the infamous chuckster's "about" gallons, in his world they must be huge, how many litres in a chuckster gallon??? or gees louise I suppose there's chuckster litres there too??:-) In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Yes that's true & I'm well familiar with fuel consumption of marine diesels that's why when just strolling past the thread I near fell over. So now all you or anyone need do is find a proper Yanmar link which claims anything like 315HP on 11 usgal/hr, I can't but hey Butch you bought a Ficht so I'm sure you'll lead us all to one in a jiff. http://www.yanmarmarine.com/products..._TechnData.pdf The URL listed above shows the 315 hp Yanmar produces about 250 hp at 3400 rpm and burns around 11 gph. The max rpm for the engine is 3800 rpm, but only an idiot would run that diesel higher than cruise for sustained periods. Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 gph at a high cruise rpm. See this is where you lying idiots confirm your total lack of actual boating experience. Now it seems you can't even read!!! the link you proffer is for a 248-260HP engine NOT a 315 HP engine!!! You really are the most stupid lying uneducated & uneducatable person I've ever come across Krause:-) Even a small drop in revs is a huge drop in power & so now you are saying that this engine burns 11 usgal/hr at "cruise". This confirms the magazine dreamer claims are & always were just marketing BS!!! The claim was 6-7 gal/hr at 22 cruise & only 11 gal/hr at a 40 mph max. Max means no more, flat out, WOT, that's it. So again still no claims from Yanmar on the subject engine because they know they wouldn't get away with it:-) Just as you & your simpleton mates haven't here in this thread. K |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith" LaBomba182 wrote: Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the numbers. How would the owner know?? Your kidding, right? save you properly test how would any owner know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise". The owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the first place, so ............. And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall. Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a "capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome. So, show us some that proves you right. So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20% more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry) "have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-) And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data? I don't have to prove anything And your doing a fine jod of it. I'm not the one making totally over the top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt." Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if nothing else:-) So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP = 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on 6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 - 120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right to you???? It's not MY claim you dolt! It's interesting that you feel the need to take this discussion to a personal level. http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...curves_4.2.htm 320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt. similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient HP for HP wow!!!!!!! http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7 355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others & remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as good as it gets in our pleasure boat world. http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engi...erformance.cfm 275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr) Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause; your magazine articles & dreams. Interesting that all manufactures are liars till what they claim seems to back you up. Capt. Bill |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith" I don't have to prove anything http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage1.htm "32’ Hatteras Express, Gas to Diesel Conversion" "1983 Hatteras 32 Sportfish had her old Mercruiser 454's removed and Grover's Team installed new Yanmar 315's. The Merc's produced an 18 knots cruise burning 40gal/hr. She now cruises 25-26 knots burning just 18 gal/hr, top @ 31 kt" "34’ Atlantic, Gas to Diesel Conversion" "1992 Atlantic 34, SHANGRI-LA, had the old Crusader 454's removed and Grover's Team installed 2003 Yanmar 315's to achieve cruise speed of 26.5 kt @ 3400 rpm, top speed 32kt. Cruise consumption is 18 gal/hr." http://www.goboatingamerica.com/broc...show.asp?id=20 "Equipped with a Yanmar 315 hp engine she will cruise effortlessly at 14 knots burning less then 7 gallons per hour. The Downeast 35 is safe, seaworthy and spacious." The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. Capt. Bill |
LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" LaBomba182 wrote: Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the numbers. How would the owner know?? Your kidding, right? save you properly test how would any owner know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise". The owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the first place, so ............. And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall. Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a "capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome. So, show us some that proves you right. So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20% more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry) "have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-) And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data? I don't have to prove anything And your doing a fine jod of it. I'm not the one making totally over the top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt." Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if nothing else:-) So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP = 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on 6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 - 120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right to you???? It's not MY claim you dolt! It's interesting that you feel the need to take this discussion to a personal level. http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...curves_4.2.htm 320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt. similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient HP for HP wow!!!!!!! http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7 355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others & remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as good as it gets in our pleasure boat world. http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engi...erformance.cfm 275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr) Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause; your magazine articles & dreams. Interesting that all manufactures are liars till what they claim seems to back you up. Capt. Bill So you admit they do back me up then???? which of course they do. I said the magazines were so inexperienced they thought they could publish clearly wrong figures & I pointed out that Yanmar themselves specifically DON'T publish any claims related to that motor, indeed the sellers & magazines depend upon the public not getting any proper information. The Cummins, Cat & Perkins references just give the numbers which confirm it takes about 18-20 usgals/hr to make 315HP so the claims no matter who actually made them are false & grossly so. Again lest there be any chance you still don't get it, a 28ft cabin boat doing 40 mph on 11 usgal/hr is just marketing BS & anyone who wears it is confirmed as not having much boating experience, the magazines, you & the NG non boating idiots brigade wore it. K |
LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" I don't have to prove anything http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage1.htm You really are gullible aren't you William??? these people are sellers!!! "32’ Hatteras Express, Gas to Diesel Conversion" "1983 Hatteras 32 Sportfish had her old Mercruiser 454's removed and Grover's Team installed new Yanmar 315's. The Merc's produced an 18 knots cruise burning 40gal/hr. She now cruises 25-26 knots burning just 18 gal/hr, top @ 31 kt" Gee a testimonial that's really reliable probably in the same class as the other magazine something to sell rubbish. For any fuel consumption figures to be valid they need to tell exactly how the fuel usage was measured, needless to say the spruikers don't & never do. "34’ Atlantic, Gas to Diesel Conversion" "1992 Atlantic 34, SHANGRI-LA, had the old Crusader 454's removed and Grover's Team installed 2003 Yanmar 315's to achieve cruise speed of 26.5 kt @ 3400 rpm, top speed 32kt. Cruise consumption is 18 gal/hr." This is slightly more realistic but again why quote marketing spruik to me, all you need do is find just one "Yanmar" reference that will tell you how much fuel their 315 engine burns at various revs, but I can assure you the starting point at max is going to be about 19-20 usgal/hr. Assuming the fixed pitch props are correct, then at 3400rpm those engines would be making 160-175HP (yes that's right around 1/2 max HP) & given the known consumption of marine diesels it's easy to predict the fuel usage @ 9.9 usgal/hr X 2 = 19-20 gal/hr. Honestly can't you see even from this that the original claim of a 6gal/hr cruise & then an 11gal/hr max is just hopeless BS??? http://www.goboatingamerica.com/broc...show.asp?id=20 "Equipped with a Yanmar 315 hp engine she will cruise effortlessly at 14 knots burning less then 7 gallons per hour. The Downeast 35 is safe, seaworthy and spacious." I have always had to contend with this in this NG you actually think if enough people repeat a lie it somehow becomes true, from the OMC dealers not knowing how their own engines idle, to them not knowing then repeating the same lies they were given by OMC as regards Ficht, to this endless nonsense about diesels. It's simple HP for HP you'll save about 20% of the fuel petrol vs diesel. The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. Dealers & other selling spruikers are the a..holes from whence the BS comes!!! From there it's spread over the magazine pages by advertising chasing inexperienced magazine writers, then inexperienced non boaters like you spread it word of mouth, soon people think it's right; so what??, it's not. Things like this are not resolved by a show of hands. The proper diesel manufacturers publish the fuel consumption figures & it's a very competitive business even Yanmar are silent in this because they know any proper fuel graph would stop the deception. "Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the bell has tolled for thee. K Capt. Bill |
Gould 0738 wrote:
The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. Capt. Bill Looks like it's your turn in the barrel. Good luck. All those items you cited will be shouted down as nothing more than the result of a deliberate conspiracy between Yanmar, the installer, and Sea Magazine (goboatingamerica.com). Count on it. There are lies, damn lies, wicked collaborations,.....and the opposing party's ever correct personal opinion, of course. :-) No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope of not offending the marketers. K |
No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a
classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope of not offending the marketers. K Wrong, again. I don't state fuel consumption figures without identifying the source of the information. Sources can be fuel consumption tests done by the engine mfg during commissioning, observations of fuel flow meters underway, or anecdotal remarks by a marketing representative. Your difficulty seems to center around statements like, "The factory claims the vessel burns 4 gph at 10-knots," (or) "My dockmate repowered with a 300HP Gruntngroaner and he says his fuel consumption has dropped from 22 gph to 17." If the statements are properly identified as third party claims, why should the writer or poster be barbecued alive because your textbook theory would appear to question the numbers? It's one thing to express some skepticism, but another entirely to convert a discussion of fuel efficiency to a personality oriented flame fest. When you watch television news and some reporter says "The local Aussie politician claims he has single-handedly revitalized the economy of SE Australia," and you disagree with the politician's boast, do you damn the reporter for "spreading lies"? |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith" Date: 12/21/04 3:13 AM Eastern "Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the bell has tolled for thee. Great. And I hope that means I will no longer be hearing from you. Capt. Bill |
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: (Gould 0738) Looks like it's your turn in the barrel. Good luck. True. I used to think Harry was over the top in his attitude towards her. But now, I'm beginning to get it. I think I'll give it a rest with the female jaxxass. Capt. Bill |
LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck From: "K. Smith" Date: 12/21/04 3:13 AM Eastern "Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the bell has tolled for thee. Great. And I hope that means I will no longer be hearing from you. Capt. Bill You should kill file me then capt., fore I will always say what I say when people post nonsense, you can hide if you want I care not. I don't use a kill file; don't need it. K |
Gould 0738 wrote:
No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope of not offending the marketers. K Wrong, again. I don't state fuel consumption figures without identifying the source of the information. Sources can be fuel consumption tests done by the engine mfg during commissioning, observations of fuel flow meters underway, or anecdotal remarks by a marketing representative. Hmmmm I do think you're a spammer & marketer by genes Chuck, however I don't think you're a Krause type open liar, so what about the 28 ft boat you gave us the figures on a few years ago??? It wasn't till even owners were saying the marketing claims were bunkum that you seemed to accept they were just marketing nonsense. Your difficulty seems to center around statements like, "The factory claims the vessel burns 4 gph at 10-knots," No difficulty with that at all it's clearly a second hand hearsay type comment. (or) "My dockmate repowered with a 300HP Gruntngroaner and he says his fuel consumption has dropped from 22 gph to 17." If the statements are properly identified as third party claims, why should the writer or poster be barbecued alive because your textbook theory would appear to question the numbers? But that's the point Chuck they don't make it clear it's just a self serving hearsay claim, they say things like; we were cruising at 18kts burning about 6 gals/hr, that's a totally different claim & a deceptive marketing claim, nothing more. It's one thing to express some skepticism, but another entirely to convert a discussion of fuel efficiency to a personality oriented flame fest. I have endeavoured several times in this NG to make it clear that the fuel comsumption of modern HO marine diesels is an almost flat line these days, turbo &/or supercharged, intercooled or no, the fuel consumption per HP made is within a reasonable range, a fixed amount. When you watch television news and some reporter says "The local Aussie politician claims he has single-handedly revitalized the economy of SE Australia," and you disagree with the politician's boast, do you damn the reporter for "spreading lies"? Chuck this is selling things by making false claims. The Yanmar dealers who post testimonials to try to make people believe the false numbers are just engaging in covered false advertising!!! If you then unquestioningly print that, then you are also. I would or at least used to, hope you might be better than that & at the very least smell a rat (other than Krause) & make some further inquiries. If they want to use boats they've refitted with diesel engines for advertising purposes then that's OK but seeing they fitted the engines & presumably tested them on the water etc why not do some actual numbers & then advertise with proper confidence???? They know the owners are dreaming but if it helps sales they just use it, equally when the spruikers tell you nonsense you should at the least be skeptical. You have a slow very fuel efficient diesel boat Chuck as do I & we both know just walking by that a 28ft cabin boat doing 22mph on 6 gal/hr is well out of order much less a 28 ft cabin boat doing 40 mph on 11 gal/hr, claiming a 315HP diesel is at "max". K |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:36 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com