"DonQuijote1954" wrote in message
om...
Max wrote in message
...
I'd really like to hear more about the details specific and germane to
the Miami park problem.

Could you post a mapquest link to the spot in question, or an overhead
image?

Here's the map (I hope it works)...

(I'd come down 18 st, but now I have to walk 3 times farther and
launch at a more dangerous place)

http://www.smartpages.com/cityguides...yType=&Radius=

This isn't some little park lake like I imagined you were describing.
Although I'm not familiar with your put-in point, any boat launch ramp
should be as available to kayaks as any other craft. If you are launching
from a non-ramp site, walk the three blocks or drive to a public ramp and be
done with it. You are so lucky to have this wonderful place to paddle.

In Colorado, we have a great deal of compassion for the homeless who have
hard and shortened lives. Typically, the homeless are struggling with
mental illness and are difficult to help although many try.

Of course, kayaking and the homeless have nothing to do with each other
except to distract the officials from your issue with them. Gratitude is
the antidote for resentment and the map seems to point to a lot to be
grateful for.

Happy Thanksgiving.

--
Sincerely,
Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm
Garden Kinder CDs
http://www.jobird.com/cd/gardenkinderhome.html

"Joanne" wrote in message nk.net...
This isn't some little park lake like I imagined you were describing.
Although I'm not familiar with your put-in point, any boat launch ramp
should be as available to kayaks as any other craft. If you are launching
from a non-ramp site, walk the three blocks or drive to a public ramp and be
done with it. You are so lucky to have this wonderful place to paddle.

The only park with a canoe ramp is two miles away, but takes a car and
then be limited by the closing hours. Limitations, limitations,
limitations...

And the next best choice is kind of dangerous and difficult.
Surrounding areas are all monopolized by the lions. What's left?

In Colorado, we have a great deal of compassion for the homeless who have
hard and shortened lives. Typically, the homeless are struggling with
mental illness and are difficult to help although many try.

You must have been raised into accepting the homeless as normal but I
have not. I'd like to remind you they are the symptom of a jungle. A
few that have it all (private marines and all), others that are left
behind and discarded like animals (the homeless), and a majority who
got no place in between. It's a jungle out there...

Of course, kayaking and the homeless have nothing to do with each other
except to distract the officials from your issue with them. Gratitude is
the antidote for resentment and the map seems to point to a lot to be
grateful for.

The things I have to be grateful were created by NATURE, but are
quickly disappearing thanks to the relentless attack by motorboats and
the careless dumping, so a few can have fun.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Likewise. Thanks Mother Nature! ;)

Originally posted by Rickk
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

Oh no, it's only ice falling!

"oohhhh...dead Jews and Americans!....oohhh...ohhhh...almost
there...ohhh...right there!...that's the spot...deeeeaddd
Jews...ovens....ohhhh-dead Jews! Be-headed Americans! OHHH! OHHH!
YES!!!!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!"

But don't blame all Americans and Jews for it, only a few of them--the
lions so to speak. Actually the Jewish kibbutz present the best hope
to Stupid Unnecessary Vehicles and other stupid things out there...

The Greening of the Kibbutz
Environmentalists hope to restore the kibbutz movement to its former
place on the leading edge of social innovation
by Jan Martin Bang

Imagine a string of villages, settled over the last twenty five years
by young people from all over the world, inspired by the ideals of
building a new society. A cooperative society, not using money,
trusting each other, each village having unique characteristics,
owning all things in common, bringing up their children in a new
educational system, practicing democracy at a grass roots, village
level. In short, building a new type of culture.

Doesn't that sound inspiring? Can such a thing exist? Is this just a
dream? A utopia, no place?

(snip)

The task of the Green Kibbutz Group became quite clear to me, to find
this concern in every kibbutz in the country, and nurture it, helping
it along to make the kibbutz movement once again a leading social
experiment. Where modern consumerism and capitalism armed with the
latest technology are creating a wasteland unfit for human habitation,
we have a task to create a new society, one which will use the
technology available to us, in a spirit of cooperation, to create
communities which will be sustainable and live lightly on the land.

http://www.ru.org/artkibb.html

... you all are going to have to excuse me but I am 55 years old and for as
long as I can remember I have been told by numerous pundits that
civilization especially western civilization is about to go bust and
self-destruct. First it was by all-out nuclear war - I also can remember
being told we would run out of crude oil by 2000 - then it was the coming
ice age - and now we all are going to roast in our own juices with global
warming and the runaway greenhouse effect. Sorry if I sound jaded & cynical
but a ton of money has been and will be made predicting the end of the
world.

Personally I think if we snuff ourselves it will come from the small
microbial end of things. Probably with good & benign intentions somebody
will alter the genes of some lifeform and do irrepairable harm to most
probably the food chain and then we all can kiss our modern civilization
goodbye. Just my 2 cents worth.

The fact that we were saved by a hair (remember the Cuban Missile
Crisis) doesn't mean that the wolf wasn't there. But now we have more
wolves, predictable and unpredictable. The issue at hand is the
predictable one. It's not a matter of "if" but of "when." We are
unwilling and uncapable to change and the problem is passed on to
future generations. The other issue is the unpredictable one. As more
people and governments--not always with the best intentions--lay their
hands on WMDs and more conflicts are provoked, something will happen
sooner or later...

There's a dialog in 'The Matrix' in which one of the humanoids says we
human beings are the only living beings, outside of a virus, to
destroy its own home. Maybe we will meet our own medicine.

DonQuijote1954 ) writes:

There's a dialog in 'The Matrix' in which one of the humanoids says we
human beings are the only living beings, outside of a virus, to
destroy its own home. Maybe we will meet our own medicine.

We are certainly changing the environemnt, but you'll have to define
"destruction". if we humans die out the land and water will still be here
and sombody else will take over. However we humans are not causing any
significant warming of the earth's climate. There are far greater forces
at play such as the cyclical increase in sunspot activity. The sun's
radiation is not a constant but fluxuates over hundreds of years with
shorter cycles of 11 or so years. The data show that radiation has been
increasing in line with the slight rise surface temperature on our planet.
NO doubt they are getting the same effect on Mars where there are no
automobiles or air conditioners.

I mentioned the 11 solar cycle because it has a definte effect on some
animal species. The wild rabbit population is known to rise and fall with
the 11 year solar cycle. I assume any paddlers with an interest in the
conservation will be familiar with that.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Well, for those who can't read ice melting as a sign of Earth warming,
here's another sign of environmental catastrophe: satellite pictures
of the Amazon. If that is not clear enough...

Satellites show human destruction of Amazon rainforest
By Andrew Hay in Brasilia
November 27, 2004

Getting patchy
About half of Brazil's original Amazon rainforest has been occupied by
man, deforested or used for industry, and its destruction is worse
than government figures show, an environmental group says.

A study using satellite photographs shows that land occupation and
deforestation covers about 47 per cent of the world's largest jungle,
an area bigger than the continental United States, the Brazilian
non-government organisation Imazon said.

The respected group has received funding from a number of sources
including the Ford Foundation and the German and US governments.

While the Government says only 16 per cent of Brazil's Amazon has been
deforested, the Imazon study indicates a much larger area is
threatened or being destroyed by man, said one of the researchers,
Carlos Souza.

"This shows the real pressure on the forest," said Mr Souza, who used
satellite images up to 2002 to produce the study.

Deforestation of the Amazon by ranchers, farmers and loggers hit its
second-highest level last year.

The Government says it is using satellite monitoring, reserves and
better law enforcement to slow destruction of an area that is home to
10 per cent of the world's fresh water and 30 per cent of plant and
animal species.

The centre-left Government is particularly concerned about an "arc of
deforestation" that marks an agricultural and settlement frontier
sweeping from east to west across the lower, southern half of the
Amazon.

Imazon said its survey showed that reserves must be created deep
within the forest, and on the frontier of Brazil's portion of the
Amazon - about two-thirds of the rainforest.

"Vast areas of forest that were previously considered empty
(especially in the north and west areas) show signs of growing human
pressure, especially from forest fires," the Imazon study said.

Environment Ministry officials were not immediately available to
comment on the survey.

About 70 per cent of Brazil's tropical savannah - once the size of the
Amazon - has been deforested to create the world's biggest
grain-growing area, environmental groups say.

The Amazon will go the same way if agriculture, business and
government use it as a resource to fuel economic growth, the
Environment Minister, Marina Silva, said last week as she opened an
environmental police academy.

Reuters

"we live under the foot of the dinosaur"

Originally posted by Cowboy
Where I live - it's a free-market economy; folks don't like being told
what they can or can't buy as if it were a command economy. Go bych to
the auto manufacturers to improve efficiency, cause I sure as hell
won't argue with you in that I'd love to get 40+ mpg instead of the 12
or so I see with my truck. See; you're directing your anti-SUV rant at
the wrong crowd. Consumers will buy what they need or want, but
manufacturers can do better with pressure in the right places.

#1: I drive a truck that has the same engine as a Ford Expedition, so
what's the freakin' difference? Are you going to tell me and all the
other millions of truck owners that we should go out and buy hybrids??
Try hauling a load full of grain in a shyt can Honda. The FORD F-150
is the world's best selling consumer vehicle; trucks get the work done
in my town.

#2: If you live in a city or don't have kids; shyt, a Mini Cooper or
Camry might do you good. That stuff won't work for me where I live and
what I deal with.

Like Montgomery Gentry say: I ain't trading in my family's safety just
to save on a little gas ................ YOU DO YOUR THING, I'll DO
MINE!!!! [fuqing bad-azz song and it's how millions roll].

Like I said - you go voice it to the auto manufacturers and tell them
I want the same truck, but with 40 mpg. You think I like paying $300
per month in gas??? Hell no, but I ain't about to drive no fuqing Jap
car and a Ford Focus or Chevy Cobalt just don't cut it for me.

Cowboy, I don't have a rationing in mind, but the current level of
happy-go-around waste is UNSUSTAINABLE.

But you know what is f*** wrong with the world (aka the jungle)? Not
that you personally drive a truck, particularly if you need it, but
that WASTING GAS IS GLAMORIZED. If you drive an SUV in the city
(hardly a need for it) it signals "hey, I'm the king of the world, and
f*** the world." Another thing is wrong with the world (or should I
say America?) is that YOU DON'T HAVE CHOICES, but to pollute. I got 3
spanking new bicycles in my apartment that go nowhere. Why? Because
it's a jungle out there. And being small gets you in trouble. Not even
in a small car you are safe, let alone in a bicycle, on the chaotic
American roads, where SIZE MATTERS. We need BIKE LANES but that's too
much to ask in the land of super roads.

So sure we can put pressure on Ford Corportation to produce hybrids
and complain all you want, and they should be doing much more by now,
but in the meantime, I'm saying WE LIVE UNDER THE FOOT OF THE
DINOSAUR. And the STUPID HUNGRY DINOSAUR, instead of coming up with
something creative, demands to be fed at whatever cost.:confused:

(hey, you can sign something here);)

Climate Change Petition Online
Sign the online Emissions Petition. Urge America's political leaders
to take...
iw.rtm.com

If the beast were smart, it could notice things like this...;)


Wind industry bids to win over doubters
Friday, November 26, 2004 Posted: 9:30 AM EST (1430 GMT)

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- The European wind energy industry,
thriving as climate change tops the global agenda, says it could
eventually supply all the continent's electricity, but must first
overcome public resistance over eyesore turbines.

The European Wind Energy Association (EWEA), which held its annual
meeting in London this week, projected that offshore "wind farms"
covering an area the size of Greece could meet Europe's electricity
needs with no greenhouse gas emissions.

But sceptics cite pollution of another kind with giant wind turbines
scarring the landscape, or blighting the sea horizon, deterring
tourists and killing birds with their whirling vanes.

"The argument is reaching ridiculous proportions. Most people don't
understand climate change and they don't understand wind turbines,"
Alison Hill of the British Wind Energy Association (BWEA) told an
international meeting in London.

She said her organization was mounting a major publicity campaign in
newspapers, with billboard posters and a photographic exhibition
extolling what she called the beauty of turbines to inform and win
over people.

"It is a long standing case of Not In My Back Yard. Where people have
knowledge they give support. In this case familiarity breeds content,"
she said.

With the Kyoto treaty on cutting carbon dioxide emissions about to
come into force, signatory governments must seek clean and renewable
sources of energy.

Wind farms are sprouting in fields, on hilltops and out of the seas
around Europe with major projects either under construction or in
planning.

The EWEA says it can hit the target of generating 75 gigawatts (GW) of
electricity -- or 5.5 percent of demand -- by 2010, of which 10 GW
could be offshore.

With initiative and government intervention to remove long term
support for the carbon dioxide emitting fossil fuel power industry,
this could rise to 12 percent by 2020.

"In the longer term, a sea area of 150,000 square kilometers ... could
provide enough power to satisfy all of Europe's electricity demand,"
an EWEA statement said. He gave no timeframe.

But Rowena Langston of the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds
-- which says global warming must be stopped -- said development was
being pushed ahead with scant reference to the impact on the local
environment and in particular bird life.

"Until there is more robust information, we are not going to overstep
our conservation brief and say a project should go ahead regardless,"
she told the meeting.

But renewabale energy specialist Bryony Worthington of pressure group
Friends of the Earth countered that the climate crisis was now so
grave that birds had to take second place to saving the planet.

"The bottom line is that climate change is happening, endangering us
all. It is extremely scary," she told Reuters.

Originally posted by goth1856
....about the virus anology...ever notice a satell pix of modern
civilization on the face of the earth is just like a colony of virus
on the host? it begged the question are we the virus plague apon the
planet?

Yep. But there's consolation...

What would you like to come back as? King over the British?
After Blair they will believe anything you tell them.

Keep that review of Bush- pushing further and further to greater
failure (madness).

Howdy Bader
That's the fate of the lions: to drag everybody else and themselves
into doom. If there's any consolation is that they'll meet their
justice. They'll be swallowed by the jungle...

Film 'Aguir The Wrath of God'

"The centerpiece of the story is the figure of Aguirre, played with
crazed demonism by Klaus Kinski. He's terrifying in the part -- his
lips contort underneath cold blue eyes that convey a ruthlessness that
slips, not so slowly, into insanity. By placing him and his arrogant
delusions about himself and the environment he finds himself in,
Herzog seems to be criticizing the entirety of Western culture, from
imperialism to Nazism to the American occupation of Vietnam. Aguirre
and those who follow him are ultimately destroyed by their own
delusions of grandeur; in the end, the world they're confronting is
simply too large and complex to be encompassed by their petty plans
and ambitions."

http://reviews.imdb.com/Reviews/120/12030

On 2004-11-27, DonQuijote1954 wrote:
Originally posted by goth1856
...about the virus anology...ever notice a satell pix of modern
civilization on the face of the earth is just like a colony of virus
on the host? it begged the question are we the virus plague apon the
planet?

Luckily we do have a cure for this plague:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/jik/sarastus/penaintr.htm

In Finland we have only 3% of foreign descent, compared to Sweden's
40%, and thus this guy's 50 years of premonitory sermons did have a
covert effect, inspite of being officially comdemned.

Timo Noko wrote in message ...
On 2004-11-27, DonQuijote1954 wrote:
Originally posted by goth1856
...about the virus anology...ever notice a satell pix of modern
civilization on the face of the earth is just like a colony of virus
on the host? it begged the question are we the virus plague apon the
planet?

Luckily we do have a cure for this plague:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/jik/sarastus/penaintr.htm

In Finland we have only 3% of foreign descent, compared to Sweden's
40%, and thus this guy's 50 years of premonitory sermons did have a
covert effect, inspite of being officially comdemned.

Though I'm an immigrant myself, my position on the issue is, we need
to fix our own problems, and then we leave your land. Ironically we
may find that immigrants and racists have something in common,
particularly with a country like Finland which is a country...

Emigration from Finland

Finland has traditionally been a country of emigration. Over one
million finnish people has moved from Finland since 1900, half of that
before World War II. Without any emigration there would be 6-7 million
inhabitants in Finland. The most important wave of emigration started
from the 1860's and went on to the 1930's, when emigrants headed
mainly for North America. The next wave of dimension was the
emigration to Sweden which started in the 1950's and diminished in the
1970's.

Finding relatives in America has become some kind of a hobby for many.
For people living in America, Europe is the major continent where
their ancestors left. Ancestors from Finland can be found, even if the
number of immigrants from Finland was only about 0.5 % of all
immigrants to America. Usually people from the large emigration areas
in Finland tried to settle together in the same areas in the United
States. Most of the emigrants were men.

***

You see, Finland used to be a very backward country, but now is #1. We
have quite a bit to learn from Scandinavia...