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An off-topic Christmas Wish
Should have done this earlier, it's now 2:00 AM, the day after
Christmas. But, today was somewhat busy. The younger daughter with my granddaughter spent the night Christmas Eve so the little two-year old could wake up to presents under the tree. My daughter's husband is in Baghdad, doing his thing. We had a great time, opened presents, took pictures, sent pictures to Baghdad, had friends for dinner, and managed to get my new computer working long enough to make a couple posts before I screwed it up again. What I didn't do was wish everyone a Merry Christmas! This past year (or however long I've been reading and posting in this group has been a learning experience for me. I've actually put a dictionary by the computer and paid much closer attention to the news. For that I owe everyone a little "Thank You". So, MERRY CHRISTMAS (said very loudly) and I hope you all have spectacular New Years. On the Poco Loco out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
What I didn't do was wish everyone a Merry Christmas! This past year
(or however long I've been reading and posting in this group has been a learning experience for me. I've actually put a dictionary by the computer and paid much closer attention to the news. For that I owe everyone a little "Thank You". So, MERRY CHRISTMAS (said very loudly) and I hope you all have spectacular New Years. Hi John.... I decided to stop back in on Christmas to read over posts (I gave up on this NG and told everyone I would be back in the spring anyway). What I have learned is that all the good people have been run off, or like me, they gave up and searched elsewhere for a NG. It's a sad fact that even during the holidays, people can't put aside their nasty, bitterness, and hate filled posts. The liberal lefties have a serious problem IMHO. Anyway, I had a wonderful Christmas and I hope you all did too. Take care and I will be back in the spring. Butch Ammon |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
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An off-topic Christmas Wish
Hi, Butch. Same to you, and hope all is well.
JG "Butch Ammon" wrote in message ... What I didn't do was wish everyone a Merry Christmas! |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Butch Ammon wrote a classic!
What I have learned is that all the good people have been run off, Great. A one-size fits all insult that flames the entire group. No "good people" here, according to Butch. He continues: It's a sad fact that even during the holidays, people can't put aside their nasty, bitterness, and hate filled posts. Like your nasty, bitter, negative post, Butch? The liberal lefties have a serious problem IMHO. We certainly do. We're out of fashion with the new Christmas traditions. According to one of our most compassionate conservatives here, the appropriate response to a holiday greeting is supposed to be "F... You!" Against such a standard, I'd rather have a "serious problem" than not. Anyway, I had a wonderful Christmas and I hope you all did too. Take care and I will be back in the spring. Butch Ammon Spectacular. Will we then have a "good person" in the NG again? |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Gould 0738 wrote:
Butch Ammon wrote a classic! What I have learned is that all the good people have been run off, Great. A one-size fits all insult that flames the entire group. No "good people" here, according to Butch. He continues: It's a sad fact that even during the holidays, people can't put aside their nasty, bitterness, and hate filled posts. Like your nasty, bitter, negative post, Butch? The liberal lefties have a serious problem IMHO. We certainly do. We're out of fashion with the new Christmas traditions. According to one of our most compassionate conservatives here, the appropriate response to a holiday greeting is supposed to be "F... You!" Against such a standard, I'd rather have a "serious problem" than not. Anyway, I had a wonderful Christmas and I hope you all did too. Take care and I will be back in the spring. Butch Ammon Spectacular. Will we then have a "good person" in the NG again? It's been sad to watch Butch devolve into part of the mindless Kollective of Konservative Borg that pollute this part of the ocean. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
It's been sad to watch Butch devolve into part of the mindless
Kollective of Konservative Borg that pollute this part of the ocean. Devolve? Uh, no..... I've always admired conservatives and people who still hang onto what little values we all have left. May I suggest you read Zell Miller's book "A National Party No More". It will give you a much needed "wake up call". Today's liberals are so far left, they are about to fall over. It's sad. Take care. Butch Ammon |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
On 26 Dec 2003 12:43:47 GMT, 123 (Butch Ammon) wrote:
I will be back in the spring. Butch Ammon Don't bother. bb |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
I will be back in the spring.
Butch Ammon Don't bother. bb You know what??? It's people like you who bring this NG down to the lowest level!!! I hope for next year, that you are a kinder person on this NG. Butch Ammon |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
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An off-topic Christmas Wish
Butch Ammon wrote:
It's been sad to watch Butch devolve into part of the mindless Kollective of Konservative Borg that pollute this part of the ocean. Devolve? Uh, no..... I've always admired conservatives and people who still hang onto what little values we all have left. Conservatives don't have any values at all, except what is in their wallets. They pay lip service to so-called "moral" values, but there's little evidence they live the life the want to impose on others. May I suggest you read Zell Miller's book "A National Party No More". Miller is just another Konservative Krackpot who had planned to switch, BORG-like, to the GOP. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
John H wrote:
On 26 Dec 2003 19:00:38 GMT, 123 (Butch Ammon) wrote: It's been sad to watch Butch devolve into part of the mindless Kollective of Konservative Borg that pollute this part of the ocean. Devolve? Uh, no..... I've always admired conservatives and people who still hang onto what little values we all have left. May I suggest you read Zell Miller's book "A National Party No More". It will give you a much needed "wake up call". Today's liberals are so far left, they are about to fall over. It's sad. Take care. Butch Ammon Butch - Y'all come back soon. You'll note that most of us pay no attention to the tripe slinger (HK) anymore. He's trying hard to earn the 'most cirrhotic liveral' title. You pay a lot of attention to me, John. So much you should be blushing. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Butch Ammon wrote:
It's been sad to watch Butch devolve into part of the mindless Kollective of Konservative Borg that pollute this part of the ocean. Devolve? Uh, no..... I've always admired conservatives and people who still hang onto what little values we all have left. May I suggest you read Zell Miller's book "A National Party No More". It will give you a much needed "wake up call". Today's liberals are so far left, they are about to fall over. It's sad. Take care. Butch Ammon Today's liberals have fallen into the center, Butch. You obviously know no history. The liberals of the 1960s had balls and were quite radical. It's the right that has tipped over. But since you are part of the extreme right, you don't see it. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
my OT wish, all you OT's would go away.
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An off-topic Christmas Wish
my OT wish, all you OT's would go away.
I know how you must feel, Floridakeyz.... Believe me. Arguing about Off Topic posts and demanding that people just submit On Topic posts, is pointless. This is an unmoderated NG, so anything goes. I would guess 90% of the people here have their boats wrapped up and winterized, so there is not much else to do. I hope you have a nice holiday and a great new year. Butch Ammon |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Butch apparently got on your "last good nerve", but I have found him to be a
regular guy. Exactly the kind of person who comes here to gas-bag about boats, and goes away disgruntled, or disappointed, or simply shaking their heads. *preach ON* The regulars in this group do little to contain or reduce the off-topic bullsh*t that goes on here. In the absence of a Charter or FAQ, the regulars determine the flavor and content of the group. "preach OFF" Before you dump on Butch, refresh your messages. IMO, 60% crap. Regards, noah Wow! Thanks, noah.... I have been on "wrecked.boats" since 1999 when my dad gave me his old 17' trihull. I have always tried my best to not cause trouble. There's a saying about "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all". So I just try to abide by that saying most of the time. Take care and have a great new years! Butch Ammon |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Nice hearing from you, Butch. Haven't been here for awhile myself and was
wondering where you went. Stick around, the OTBS is only a little deeper than it was last winter. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Maybe bb was only trying to tell Butch that the content of the NG will be no
different in the spring and did not mean to dis Butch. Hope so, since there's been way too much of that of late. And during the holidays, no less. Peace to all. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Stop wasting your keyboard, FK.
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An off-topic Christmas Wish
Before you dump on Butch, refresh your messages. IMO, 60% crap.
Regards, noah I'm not dumping on Butch. Wouldn't know him if I met him on the street, and if I did I'd probably think he was all right. All I know about Butch is his appearance in the NG. Regarding the Newsgroup persona "Butch Ammon": A couple of weeks ago it was "I'm outa here. At least until spring. You people aren't talking about boats enough to suit me and fail to rise to my high standards." OK, fine. To each his own. So, a couple of weeks later, we see Butch reappearing to say, "Just wanted you to know I'm lurking, and by the way the NG still sucks big time! All the good people have left for other NG's. Oh, and by the way, the liberals here are all real jerks. Merry Christmas." So let's see: "All the good people have left the newsgroup" (Therefore, what, only "bad" people are left?) "All the liberals are particularly full of crap." Well, there we go. Damn glad that high and friggin mighty Butch Ammon, (one of the "good people" who have left for better pastures), waded into the gutter to let everybody in rec-boats know that they really suck...........because we spend so much time telling each other we really suck. Wonderful for him to lower himself for a moment to chastise rec.boats for too much political content, and then throw in a jab about liberals. Seems like one heck of a hypocritical position to me. You think that irritated my one good nerve? Nah. Try opening your one good eye. :-) Whatever newsgroup ol' Butch has landed in, they apparently won't put up with the crap he posted here...( a group flame and a specific jab at liberals)....he ought to be darn glad ol rec.boats is around so he has somewhere to go and sprinkle feces on people from time to time. Personally, I have little patience for people who flame other people for flaming, bitch about others being bitchy, launch long name-calling tirades agaist people who call names, and folks who start 6-10 off topic threads a month griping about off topic threads. For better or worse, the group determines the content here. The same half dozen people start 80 or 90 percent of the threads. Two liberals and a single conservative probably start 75% of the OT political threads. Those of us who participate once the ball is in motion are just as guilty as the initiators. If NOYB, Harry, or jps got *zero* response the political stuff would die down. Sadly, however, if you want almost zero response in rec.boats just post something boating related. The only topics that get any real play are "how do I tune up my outboard" sort of discussions. That's OK- the group determines the content. If you think my messages are only 60% crap, you're in serious trouble. They're 99% crap (according to at least a couple of fine folks expressing opinions here) so be more discriminating. Like I said, the group determines the content. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
noah wrote:
Butch apparently posted out of anger, or frustration. Throughout the season, he has shared his boating pictures, and contributed many more on-topic posts than he has "gripes". A "regular guy" who's primary interest here is "boating". Twenty more like him would not be a bad thing. If it meant twenty or thirty more "egg-nog" gripes per year, I can live with that... About a year ago, Butch discovered he was a right-wing Republican and he's been whining ever since. He used to be a fun guy here, but his membership in the neoCon BORG collective took that away. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
About a year ago, Butch discovered he was a right-wing Republican and
he's been whining ever since. He used to be a fun guy here, but his membership in the neoCon BORG collective took that away. I'm WHAT?!?!?! Wait a minute, wait just a darn minute.... Birth year: 1961. I wasn't old enough to vote for Jimmy Carter yet, but here's a breakdown of my voting history (if you REALLY must know): Ronald Reagan 81-84 Ronald Reagan 85-88 George Bush 89-92 Bill Clinton 93-96 Bob Dole 96 {lost to Clinton} George "W" Bush 2001- See? I *can* vote Democrat if I want to. I saw something in Clinton the first time around and voted for him. By the second term, I couldn't stand him and Hillary and voted for Bob Dole. Butch Ammon |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
noah wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:03:30 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Did you go for a paddle? For several hours. It was delightful. Are you any good at sporting clays? I'm a pretty fair shot with shotguns, and am solely responsible for killing entire generations of skeet. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Butch Ammon wrote:
About a year ago, Butch discovered he was a right-wing Republican and he's been whining ever since. He used to be a fun guy here, but his membership in the neoCon BORG collective took that away. I'm WHAT?!?!?! Wait a minute, wait just a darn minute.... Birth year: 1961. I wasn't old enough to vote for Jimmy Carter yet, but here's a breakdown of my voting history (if you REALLY must know): Ronald Reagan 81-84 Ronald Reagan 85-88 George Bush 89-92 Bill Clinton 93-96 Bob Dole 96 {lost to Clinton} George "W" Bush 2001- See? I *can* vote Democrat if I want to. I saw something in Clinton the first time around and voted for him. By the second term, I couldn't stand him and Hillary and voted for Bob Dole. Butch Ammon I was wondering who voted for Dole. I really like Dole, but not as POTUS. He spends a lot of his time these days down in Bal Harbour. -- Email sent to is never read. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
1. Why is it that the "freedom of speech" claimed by the OT posters is
rarely extended to those opposed to OT? I have seen thousands of OT posts that never raised an eyebrow, yet *one* post in opposition to OT is invariably attacked, and usually denigrated. Good question. The answer is most likely related to two factors. First, the majority of people who log on just to gripe about OT posting *never* post on topic. They don't participate, but would presume to dictate how the people who do participate should go about it. Second, some of the folks who complain about OT posts have a Joan of Arc complex and see it as their mission to "save" rec.boats from OT posts, specific individual posters, or etc. Yeah, freedom of speech extends to everybody. Even those with nothing intelligent to say. You're free to express your opinion, and others are free to say you're a such-and-such, no-good, blankety blank SOB for daring to think that way. That's how it works. (Just imagine being a liberal in the current rw political environment, you'll see what I mean) :-) 2. You posted above "Sadly, however, if you want almost zero response in rec.boats just post something boating related." That is sad. Perhaps it's an indication of the number of boaters who no longer frequent here. A number of posters, including myself, try to respond if we have something to offer. A number of OT posters never post about boats. Is that OK with you? I would prefer that the NG have more boating content. It doesn't matter if its "OK" with me......it isn't up to me, to you, to Butch Ammon, or anybody else to dictate the tone of the NG. We can "influence" it through participation, but we have no right to demand that the very few people who see cut and pasting political newspaper articles as the primary reason to visit rec.boats take their act somewhere else. 3, and last. The acceptance of OT posting just encourages more OT posters, and creates a larger "bog". If everyone on Usenet followed this "anything goes" precept, we would be up to our necks in "dog grooming", "kinky pet lovers", and "philatilist phobias". Most people recognise that the group name indicates the content. You stated above that "the group determines the content.", yet I have never detected any concern from the OT posters for Usenet protocol or group opinion. A handful of posters produce about 70-80% of the posts, all Off-topic. As in #1 above, dissenters are normally attacked, and many don't come back. They didn't come here for an argument, they came here to read and post about boats, were disappointed, and left.. Are you saying that "whosoever posts legitimizes his post by posting"? I don't get it. I understand that my opinion is not popular here, but it is not intended to be popular. I do try to make it logical, respectful, and to engage others in discussion. Regards, noah To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah. ...as you were. :o) I don't get around to hardly any other NG's beyond rec.boats. But, I am beginning to suspect the problem is universal throughout the medium and not just islolated in the rec.boats NG. Example: I'm beginning the process of learning to play the bagpipe. What better instrument for a guy who's a natural windbag, "drones" on incessantly, and toots his own horn? (Actually, I have come to appeciate the oboe-like tone and the heritage of the instrument). I thought I'd check out the bagpipe newsgroup to see what I should be trying to learn....... That lasted about five minutes. The topics listed were about half left wing or right wing political, a couple of general laments along the theme "Why has our newsgroup gone to hell so?", Some Specific Person is a pedophile, We Should be Ashamed of our role in Iraq, We Should be Proud of our role in Iraq, a half dozen assorted flaming and name calling sessions, several posts attacking a specific, prolific, poster who seems to have annoyed almost everybody, etc. If you picked through all the crap, there were acutally two or three posts related to playing the bagpipe. Not much different than here, and I'll bet there's little or no crossover. My bagpipe newsgroup experience must have been very similar to that of a boater just passing through rec.boats. If I were just stumbling across rec.boats today, I wouldn't stick around either. There is no doubt the NG has gone downhill over the last few years. In my opinion, it's the bitchy and childish nature of the OT posts, more than the subject matter, that contribute to the deterioration. Do you realize there are several posters in the NG who post an insult almost every time they participate? We disagree because we see the NG from our two unique perspectives. You, for example, are a classroom teacher. It makes all the sense in the world to you to post a sign outside the classroom door that says "Advanced Physics" and expect everybody in class to restrict discussion to physics, or topics immediately related to same. Myself, I operate in a mad scramble where the fewer the rules the better I like it. I promote a society where individuals accept responsibilty for their own actions and in exchange are not highly regulated by others. (As Dylan said, "To live outside the law, you must be honest"). Live and let live------even if we might not personally see value in the choices made by others. It's not always important that we do. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Butch Ammon wrote:
About a year ago, Butch discovered he was a right-wing Republican and he's been whining ever since. He used to be a fun guy here, but his membership in the neoCon BORG collective took that away. I'm WHAT?!?!?! Wait a minute, wait just a darn minute.... Birth year: 1961. I wasn't old enough to vote for Jimmy Carter yet, but here's a breakdown of my voting history (if you REALLY must know): Ronald Reagan 81-84 Ronald Reagan 85-88 George Bush 89-92 Bill Clinton 93-96 Bob Dole 96 {lost to Clinton} George "W" Bush 2001- See? I *can* vote Democrat if I want to. I saw something in Clinton the first time around and voted for him. By the second term, I couldn't stand him and Hillary and voted for Bob Dole. Butch Ammon Hay Butch: Don't let these fools get you down. If you disagree with one thing they like... thats it... You are "a this" or "a that" (gee I wonder how predjudice's get started) They have no idea who or what you are and could never figure someone out unless they fit in there little bigited catagories. Look foward to the new year and another season on the water. I still have my little 14ft fishing boat in service. But may put it away for the rest of the season as I don't like to much of a chill when in the little tin cup :-) I was just at the marina where I keep the cuddy and it is sleeping well. But starting to show a little fading on the gellcoat as it is out side on the trailer. Take care amigo, It's good to see you posting again. Capt Jack R.. |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
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An off-topic Christmas Wish
On 26 Dec 2003 22:52:37 -0600, noah
wrote: Dear "blackies at work", I don't have clue what caused you to select your fudged email, but it is interesting. Perhaps you could tell us the history and motivation. The blackie thing goes way back, do you really care? When I'm at home, I use the "at home" thing. When I'm at work, I use the "at work" thing. I don't really see any great mystery to it, or that anyone would really have an interest. Butch Ammon is a decent guy, who likes boats. Yeah, I've seen Butch's posts for some time. Although our boating experiences appear to be very different, I have seen his occaisional boating related posts. That kinda' pre-qualifies him to post to rec.boats. But it doesn't pre-qualify him to make general disparging remarks about anyone, or any qroup. Butch's post was certainly not much different than what he complains about. bb |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
On 29 Dec 2003 22:07:08 -0600, noah
wrote: We disagree. Butch normally posts about his boat. I'd have to say I've seen Butch post more ot and bitching about liberals than I have seen him post about his boat in the driveway. But yeah, I know about the old green tri-hull that used to be his dad's. Got a boat? I'd love to hear about it. Sure, currently a 190 Seastrike. I've posted about it before, and several other boats I've owned. If I see a boating topic I think I can add something to, I'll do it. If I see someone come in and make generalized derogitory comments about groups I happen to belong to, I'll respond as I see fit. If my taking offense to Butch's offensive comments offends you, my apologies, please ignore my future posts. bb |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
bb,
Sorry if my original post struck a nerve with you, Chuck Gould, and many others. Like noah said before, I must have posted out of anger, frustration, or just spewed out from the lip without thinking. I just don't see the reasoning behind the ultra left-wing, hardcore, liberals. It's plain and simple. I can only shake my head and ask, "Why?" My old RED 17' trihull boat is still sitting under it's cover, all winterized, and hibernating like a bear until the spring. When the warm weather arrives, it will roar to life and I'll be out boating again. Take care. Butch Ammon RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=ammonbutch |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
Sorry if my original post struck a nerve with you, Chuck Gould, and many
others. Like noah said before, I must have posted out of anger, frustration, or just spewed out from the lip without thinking. Very gracious of you Butch. Show more class than many who have done the same. I just don't see the reasoning behind the ultra left-wing, hardcore, liberals. It's plain and simple. I can only shake my head and ask, "Why?" The wonderful aspect is, you're not required to see any reasoning at all. I can't understand Scientology, but I respect the right of people to become Scientologists. I can't figure out how anybody with half a heart can endorse much of what passes for conservatism these days, but simply because I can't figure it out doesn't make conservatives evil people. In reality, the liberal vs. conservative differences most often boil down to the question "Who does the government serve?" In general, liberals believe that the government is accountable to *all* the people, and that establishing an environment where any person willing to work hard, be creative, take some risks, and be slightly lucky has an opportunity to earn a better lifestyle is a worthy, social, goal. I'm not a conservative, but from what I can tell most conservatives feel that the government is accountable to the *taxpayers*. The greater the number of tax dollars paid, the greater the number of benefits one has a right to expect in return. Many conservatives feel that it should be government's business to either assist the wealthy in perpetuating and increasing their net worth, or at least get out of the way and let commerce proceed without the nagging baggage of assuming responsibility for social consequences. If one view is too Utopian, the other is too hard nosed and selfish. :-) |
An off-topic Christmas Wish
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