Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________==___
 

The odd thing about Americans is that they like wartime Presidents
snip

I'd have to disagree with the "they" part. Not all Americans support the little
buckeroo from Texas. The neocons and the christian fundamentalists however love
him. I haven't quite figured that out, might be an American version of the
Talliban.

but can't
deal with body bags. You can't have one without the other.

Mike

The fundies don't care about body bags, they have no conscience. Keeps their
holy war on track.

Dennis

On 29-Nov-2004, ospam (Larry Cable) wrote:

Low exchange rates make American products more
competitive on the world market, in particular agricultural commodity items.

America's products are increasingly service oriented. You've shipped much
of your manufacturing overseas, particularly to China. How will you make a
killing in agricultural commodities when there is so much protectionism and
such an oversupply in so many products?

Mike

"mccaldwell" wrote in message
om...
You've got it right. For an interesting/sobering read China's
economy vis a vis the US, see Dec. 6 issue of Business Week. Also,
Princeton economist Paul Krugman has been warning about the US economy
mirroring a banana republic model for quite a while now. The main
thing keeping it above water is "faith" that it could never, never
actually collapse. Just keep running up debt.



Well, to argue the complete opposite side of my own argument....I really
don't know if the national debt is good or bad. Really.

For example, when I was in college, signing for a $500 student loan seemed
like the Universe to me, so I was very very cautious about accepting much
debt. Most of my friends, otoh, gleefully signed for every loan that they
were offerred, and spent their college years driving solid vehicles, wearing
good clothes, etc. One buddy even bought several dozen acres of land. Some
of them graduated with $12K, $15K, even $20K in debt. I had only $4K.

Then, through the years I paid off my debts, ahead of time, with whatever
meagre earnings I made doing whatever I was doing. Boating, mostly. Most of
those friends, otoh, deferred their loans, or went on to grad school and
incurred more debts, or paid the minimum amount on a schedule that was due
to repay them in 20 years.

Now, years later, I find that I often carry $4K in debt on my credit card
alone, and easily pay that off monthly. What seemed like an insurmountable
amount of loans way back in college is now such a trivial part of my GDP
that I wish with all my heart that I had taken out every damn penny they
offerred me, and put it in the bank! My buddy who bought land with his loans
is now incredibly wealthy, and most of my other buddies who floated their
huge debts for 20 years ended up paying them off with pocket change, because
their nice cars, nice clothes and penchant for the 'expensive stuff' led
them into a world where they were able to rub shoulders and make friends
with people in high circles, so now they have high paying jobs and lots of
assets.

Me, on the other hand, who always insisted on paying cash for what I got or
paying off my debts quickly, have an excellent (but unused) credit rating,
and not much material goods to show for it.

I'm not at all sure that debt is a bad thing.....

--riverman
(so confused)

(Wilko

Typed in Message-ID:

In 1999 the Euro was worth about 0,85 US$, now it's 1,32 US$. If you
think that loss can be made good by increased competativeness in the
world market, I'd like to hear how you think that will thappen. As
things stand now, there is a trade deficit of about one and a quarter
billion US$ a *day* (That's 418 billion US$ in 2003)! No way will

you
make up for that by getting a dollar in freefall.

A small change in value of your own denomination can be good for
international trade, losing this muc

ndicates financial trouble of a
much bigger scale.

Any yet the CIA Fact Book doesn't paint a better picture of the Netherlands.
Negative growth in GDP, and a public debt level that approaches the percentage
of GDP that the US has during a war time economy.
Why are we in deeper trouble that the Netherlands, or any of the other European
countries that are in the same shape?
SYOTR
Larry C.

Larry Cable wrote:

Any yet the CIA Fact Book doesn't paint a better picture of the Netherlands.

Nah, it also used to paint a picture of the Netherlands being run by
drug lords. That "fact" was even carried along by a high ranking general
on one of his tours to try to intimidate the Dutch government. He was
ashamed to find out that those facts were not.

Negative growth in GDP, and a public debt level that approaches the percentage
of GDP that the US has during a war time economy.

I look forward to seeing the numbers to support that thesis. Do you
happen to have any links that prove your point?

Why are we in deeper trouble that the Netherlands, or any of the other European
countries that are in the same shape?

Because the U.S. national debt is growing at an ever increasing rate,
because the U.S. has a negative trade deficit, because the U.S. has a
denomination in free fall, because the U.S. government needs to steal
from social security funds to finance its wars, because money being
borrowed is used to lower taxes for the super rich, and waging war.
Neither of which do much to help the economy in the long run, although
it may help it look like it is because for the time being a lot of that
money flows into the coffins of the big companies producing military
material.

This gives me a different pov from the one you're describing:

http://www.geographyiq.com/countries...my_summary.htm

and

http://www.geographyiq.com/countries...es_economy.htm

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"Wilko" wrote in message
...


Larry Cable wrote:

Any yet the CIA Fact Book doesn't paint a better picture of the
Netherlands.

Nah, it also used to paint a picture of the Netherlands being run by drug
lords. That "fact" was even carried along by a high ranking general on one
of his tours to try to intimidate the Dutch government. He was ashamed to
find out that those facts were not.

Yeah, let's take a look at those peace loving open armed people, eh?

Muslims kill one guy, and you go on rampages buring down schools, churches.

Seems strange that when 3000 people were killed here that us hateful,
bigotted people didn't go on a rampage to match yours. ummm.



Negative growth in GDP, and a public debt level that approaches the
percentage
of GDP that the US has during a war time economy.

I look forward to seeing the numbers to support that thesis. Do you happen
to have any links that prove your point?

Why are we in deeper trouble that the Netherlands, or any of the other
European
countries that are in the same shape?

Because the U.S. national debt is growing at an ever increasing rate,
because the U.S. has a negative trade deficit, because the U.S. has a
denomination in free fall, because the U.S. government needs to steal from
social security funds to finance its wars, because money being borrowed is
used to lower taxes for the super rich, and waging war. Neither of which
do much to help the economy in the long run, although it may help it look
like it is because for the time being a lot of that money flows into the
coffins of the big companies producing military material.

This gives me a different pov from the one you're describing:

http://www.geographyiq.com/countries...my_summary.htm

and

http://www.geographyiq.com/countries...es_economy.htm

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

Wilko

Typed in Message-ID:

Negative growth in GDP, and a public debt level that approaches the
percentage
of GDP that the US has during a war time economy.

I look forward to seeing the numbers to support that thesis. Do

ou
happen to have any links that prove your point?

It's an easy web search. CIA Factbook, then look up Netherlands on the index,
click economy. One of the best and easiest sources of general information on
most countries of the world. I looked at the year 2003.

Because the U.S. national debt is growing at an ever increasing rate,
because the U.S. has a negative trade deficit, because the U.S. has .

Again, So is the debt of the Netherlands, and outside of the 3% allowable
growth in public debt by the Common Market. And it still isn't in a war time
economy.

We have had a negative trade balance for years. The biggest reason is that we
are big domestic producers and bigger consumers, plus we are a country of a
rather large amounts of Natural Resources.
Look at imports as a percentage of GDP for the US, then look at it for
Netherlands, or most of Europe. Although this is a growing concern, It's not
really indicative of a dying or even weak economy. it just means that there are
things we can get cheaper elsewhere.



denomination in free fall, because the U.S. government needs to steal
from social security funds to finance its wars, because money being
borrowed is used to lower taxes for the super rich, and waging war.

This much has always been a fraud. The SS fund is mandated that it invest it's
money in T-bills. They haven't stolen it or reduced benefits, although the
later will eventually have to happen (although many of Europe's countries are
already approaching crisis stage with "entitlements" ). So the government
borrows the money from the fund. Does the Netherlands invest their entitlement
programs in private industry?




SYOTR
Larry C.

"rick etter" wrote in message link.net...
"Wilko" wrote in message
...


Larry Cable wrote:

Any yet the CIA Fact Book doesn't paint a better picture of the
Netherlands.

Nah, it also used to paint a picture of the Netherlands being run by drug
lords. That "fact" was even carried along by a high ranking general on one
of his tours to try to intimidate the Dutch government. He was ashamed to
find out that those facts were not.

Yeah, let's take a look at those peace loving open armed people, eh?

Who stated that that Dutch were peace loving and open armed? I
didn't... Those are your words!

Muslims kill one guy, and you go on rampages buring down schools, churches.

"You"? Mind being more specific about that "you" part? I didn't kill
anyone and I didn't go on any rampage.

As for going on a rampage, did you even bother to read about what has
really been going on in the Netherlands these last couple of weeks or
do you only read the headlines and form a biased conclusion from that
alone?

It so happens that a couple of morons abused this incident to get
their ten minutes of headline news. The people caught so far for
trying to burn down a school or a mosque (and it's not like all the
mosques are under attack, a couple of incidents have happened, which
in itself is something very strange to happen, by Dutch standards)
were either drunk adults or kids.

Seems strange that when 3000 people were killed here that us hateful,
bigotted people didn't go on a rampage to match yours. ummm.

Now you definately show how ill-informed you are.

Unlike the Dutch government, who tries to keep things from escalating,
trying to bridge the gap between native Dutch and those Dutch of Arab
or muslim heritage, the U.S. government issued laws that have made
life for people of Arab descent within the U.S. difficult.

http://racerelations.about.com/libra...nniversary.htm

There also was a wave of hate crimes and outright discrimination
committed against Arab and muslim targets inside the U.S. after 9/11,
one which makes our limited amount of incidents pale in comparison:

"The Anti-Defamation League, (ADL) dedicated to combating
anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry, gave this response shortly
after the terrorist attacks on 9-11. "We are disturbed that a number
of Arab Americans and Islamic institutions have been targets of anger
and hatred in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks. At this time of
profound anger and anxiety, no group in this country should be singled
out for hatred, prejudice or blame based on their ethnicity or
religion. Threats, harassment or acts of hate-motivated violence
against members of a group are un-American and must be forcefully
condemned. In laying blame on an entire people, we undermine our
nation's core values of equality and respect for the individual.""

On top of that, the U.S. government does everything it can to escalate
things, even going to war with two nations, killing off tens if not
hundreds of thousands of people in countries that had very little, if
nothing, to do with that terrorist attack. Now that I do call going on
a rampage!

The U.S. popular sentiment of wanting to exact revenge sure has helped
the terrorists, who couldn't have dreamt for such an outrageous
display of blind anger on the part of the U.S.. Bush his actions have
brought more funds, sympathisers and "martyrs" into the hands of the
terrorists than they could have ever managed to gather themselves.

You can definately call yourself hateful and bigoted without even
exagerrating or lying. :-(

Wilko

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/