Flexiteek followup
 

For those with any interest, here's what I've determined about the
Flexiteek decking alternative:

I met with the Vice President of Operations at our marina who is an
authorized installer of Flexiteek. He had already measured the cockpit
area on my boat and had a preliminary cost estimate. This stuff is not
cheap, so in my mind it had to really impress me to go forward with this
project.

He had a pile of strip samples on a table and I have to admit, I was not
impressed at first. What I was holding was a thin, rubber feeling strip
of PVC of a strange orange color with grooved ridges along it's length.
It didn't look like teak at all. Then, I realized I was holding it
upside down and was looking at the surface that is applied to the deck.

The other side had a realistic looking teak appearance with one edge
finished to look like a black inlay. The artificial teak even had little
slivers of material that looks like rough cut wood before it is sanded.
But, I still was not convinced based on looking at the strip and a
larger sample that he had on the floor of his office. He suggested that
we go look at a Hatteras motor yacht that they had installed Flexiteek
on a couple of years ago.

Here I became convinced. A large percentage of the Hatteras exterior
decking had the Flexiteek installed and it looked terrific. It became
obvious that technique and design of the installation is as important as
the material itself and they had done a good job of laying out the
strips in different widths plus making boarders around hatches and
angles of the fiberglass deck.

I was told the stuff is basically maintenance free. The manufacturer
recommends just washing it with boat soap. Any damage that occurs from a
heavy impact or dragging an anchor or something across it is repaired by
lightly sanding with fine sandpaper. I was told that it is more durable
and scratch resistant than real teak.

Walking on it yields a subtle cushiony feel - not soft, but not like a
hard fiberglass deck. It is much more skid resistant than the non skid
finish of my cockpit and becomes more skid resistant when it gets wet I
was told.

By this time I was impressed and have decided to have it applied to my
boat cockpit area and a section of the cockpit gunnels, just for an
accent effect.

BTW, I asked about cork decking and Gould was right on. Cork decking has
traditionally been used on some very high end boats, particularly
trawlers, but, according to the VP of Operations (who, btw, is a boat
designer and builder and is a very experienced marine architect) is not
as resistant to damage, is more expensive and is falling out of favor to
the synthetic engineered materials such as Flexiteek. According to him
boat manufacturers such as Hinkley are now offering Flexiteek installed
at the factory. Sell job? Maybe, but the Flexiteek looks good to me. It
is obvious that the experience and design creativity of the installer is
a critical component of a good looking installation as well.


Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
For those with any interest, here's what I've determined about the
Flexiteek decking alternative

Thanks a lot for this report. I am looking for some material to plank a
stern platform, I'll take a look at this stuff.

We have a real teak deck now and the plan is to take it off. At first my
wife refused, because it looks rather yachty and everybody raves about
what great non-skid it is. However years of experience on teak decks
have convinced me that the stuff is slippery when wet, and is a
maintenance headache. Heavy too. The clincher for her is that it gets
blistering hot in the sun, whereas nice off-white fiberglass nonskid
does not.

Fair Skies
Doug King

DSK wrote:



Thanks a lot for this report. I am looking for some material to plank a
stern platform, I'll take a look at this stuff.

We have a real teak deck now and the plan is to take it off. At first my
wife refused, because it looks rather yachty and everybody raves about
what great non-skid it is. However years of experience on teak decks
have convinced me that the stuff is slippery when wet, and is a
maintenance headache. Heavy too. The clincher for her is that it gets
blistering hot in the sun, whereas nice off-white fiberglass nonskid
does not.

Fair Skies
Doug King



My experience has been that an all white cockpit becomes an oven in the
hot summer sun. My recently sold Egg Harbor was a brilliant white and
the cockpit became unbearable to sit in at times when exposed to the
afternoon sun. The Navigator is better, being less brilliant white, but
it still gets hot due to reflection of the sun.

Back in the 70's and 80's the standard boat color was a very off-white -
almost yellow. They knew what they were doing.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
My experience has been that an all white cockpit becomes an oven in the
hot summer sun. My recently sold Egg Harbor was a brilliant white and
the cockpit became unbearable to sit in at times when exposed to the
afternoon sun.

You're in Florida, right? ALmost anything including a mirrored teflon
surface would get hot! Another point to consider is glare. I don't like
a white-white deck or upper works, especially if it's waxed & buffed,
and all that shiny chrome stuff is painful.



Back in the 70's and 80's the standard boat color was a very off-white -
almost yellow. They knew what they were doing.

Agreed. What you're thinking of is probably pretty close to the same
color I call "buff." Sort of light cheese colored... another good color
that has fallen out of favor is that sickly pale green. Easy on the
eyes, low glare, doesn't get hot... it's ugly though.

Fair Skies
Doug King

DSK wrote:


You're in Florida, right? ALmost anything including a mirrored teflon
surface would get hot! Another point to consider is glare. I don't like
a white-white deck or upper works, especially if it's waxed & buffed,
and all that shiny chrome stuff is painful.

Actually, I am still here in Massachusetts. We will be heading south
very soon, I hope. Mrs. E has a terminally ill dog that can't travel
and I sorta have to wait until ...

(I already made the headstone a couple of months ago, but that old dog
just keeps ticking)


Eisboch

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:46:15 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

For those with any interest, here's what I've determined about the
Flexiteek decking alternative:

~~ snippity snip ~~

Nice report.

Good luck with the installation. How about some pictures when it's
finished?

Later,

Tom

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:04:00 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

DSK wrote:



Thanks a lot for this report. I am looking for some material to plank a
stern platform, I'll take a look at this stuff.

We have a real teak deck now and the plan is to take it off. At first my
wife refused, because it looks rather yachty and everybody raves about
what great non-skid it is. However years of experience on teak decks
have convinced me that the stuff is slippery when wet, and is a
maintenance headache. Heavy too. The clincher for her is that it gets
blistering hot in the sun, whereas nice off-white fiberglass nonskid
does not.

My experience has been that an all white cockpit becomes an oven in the
hot summer sun. My recently sold Egg Harbor was a brilliant white and
the cockpit became unbearable to sit in at times when exposed to the
afternoon sun. The Navigator is better, being less brilliant white, but
it still gets hot due to reflection of the sun.

Back in the 70's and 80's the standard boat color was a very off-white -
almost yellow. They knew what they were doing.

I hear you. Both my Ranger and Contender have all white interiors and
being center consoles, the sun can get vicious - in particular working
off the front decks with a fly rod.

I've noticed that Action Craft, who makes a flats/bay boat, has gone
the '70s route with an off white for the interior on their line. I'll
bet that the heat is one reason why.

Later,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:46:15 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:


For those with any interest, here's what I've determined about the
Flexiteek decking alternative:


~~ snippity snip ~~

Nice report.

Good luck with the installation. How about some pictures when it's
finished?

Later,

Tom

Pictures in the spring. They will be installing it over the winter while
Mrs. E, me and her horses are soaking up the sun in Florida. Boat is
being hauled next Tuesday. (sniff, sniff)

Eisboch

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:37:14 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:46:15 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:


For those with any interest, here's what I've determined about the
Flexiteek decking alternative:


~~ snippity snip ~~

Nice report.

Good luck with the installation. How about some pictures when it's
finished?

Pictures in the spring. They will be installing it over the winter while
Mrs. E, me and her horses are soaking up the sun in Florida. Boat is
being hauled next Tuesday. (sniff, sniff)

I feel your pain.

Later,

Tom

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Eisboch

I met with the Vice President of Operations at our marina who is an
authorized installer of Flexiteek. He had already measured the cockpit
area on my boat and had a preliminary cost estimate.

I was quoted $40/square foot uninstalled and $70 installed at the Lauderdale
show?
How does that compare with your quote?

Capt. Bil

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Eisboch


I met with the Vice President of Operations at our marina who is an
authorized installer of Flexiteek. He had already measured the cockpit
area on my boat and had a preliminary cost estimate.


I was quoted $40/square foot uninstalled and $70 installed at the Lauderdale
show?
How does that compare with your quote?

Capt. Bil

Slightly higher - mine comes out to about $77 a square foot installed,
based on the preliminary estimate. The marina is going to prepare and
deliver a final quote before the work begins. I am looking at about
$7500 for the cockpit and gunnel areas.

Eisboch

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Harry Krause

I was quoted $40/square foot uninstalled and $70 installed at the
Lauderdale
show?
How does that compare with your quote?

Capt. Bil
$40 a square foot for the materials?

What a rip. Are you sure?

Yes. Positive.
And compared to $100+ per square foot for new teak it doesn't sound so bad.

Capt. Bill

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Eisboch

Slightly higher - mine comes out to about $77 a square foot installed,
based on the preliminary estimate. The marina is going to prepare and
deliver a final quote before the work begins. I am looking at about
$7500 for the cockpit and gunnel areas.

Does that include removing the old teak decking? Or does your boat just have
gelcoated decks?

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Eisboch


Slightly higher - mine comes out to about $77 a square foot installed,
based on the preliminary estimate. The marina is going to prepare and
deliver a final quote before the work begins. I am looking at about
$7500 for the cockpit and gunnel areas.


Does that include removing the old teak decking? Or does your boat just have
gelcoated decks?

Capt. Bill

Just gelcoated non skid. The purpose of the Flexiteek is to reduce the
amount of reflected solar energy during the peak summer sun, plus add a
little warmth to a very white boat. I've been advised that the deck may
be hot to stand on in bare feet, but as is, the cockpit can become
uncomfortable to sit in when the sun is high. I used to use
indoor/outdoor carpets from Home Depot and it cuts down on the sunburns,
but it collects all kinds of dirt between the deck and the carpet.

Eisboch

Harry Krause wrote:
LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Harry Krause

I was quoted $40/square foot uninstalled and $70 installed at the

Lauderdale

show?
How does that compare with your quote?

Capt. Bil

$40 a square foot for the materials?

What a rip. Are you sure?

Yes. Positive.
And compared to $100+ per square foot for new teak it doesn't sound so bad.

Capt. Bill


Well, I suppose it is worth what people are willing to pay, but $40 a
square foot for PVC plastic seems over the top.

Harry, my understanding is that there are all kinds of PVC formulations,
designed for specific environmental application requirements. I agree,
it's pricey, but it's less expensive than real teak planking and is
virtually maintenance free.

Eisboch

Harry Krause wrote:
LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Eisboch

Slightly higher - mine comes out to about $77 a square foot installed,
based on the preliminary estimate. The marina is going to prepare and
deliver a final quote before the work begins. I am looking at about
$7500 for the cockpit and gunnel areas.

Does that include removing the old teak decking? Or does your boat just have
gelcoated decks?

Capt. Bill



I'm sorry...but $30+ a foot to lay vinyl sheet goods? Are they using
off-shift plastic surgeons?

I had my living, dining roon and hallway done in top-of-the-line Bruce
oak strip flooring for $6.00 a square foot, installed. My wife's
bathroom is floored in Italian marble, which was about $21.00 a square
foot, installed.

I'm not poking fun at you fellas...I've been taken to the cleaners
myself many times in connection with boat stuff...

Wow!


You hit the magic nail with the hammer Harry. This is not a house. It's
a boat. Marine application, so double the price. But, that's what it is.

Eisboch

Harry Krause wrote:



I'm sorry...but $30+ a foot to lay vinyl sheet goods? Are they using
off-shift plastic surgeons?

I had my living, dining roon and hallway done in top-of-the-line Bruce
oak strip flooring for $6.00 a square foot, installed. My wife's
bathroom is floored in Italian marble, which was about $21.00 a square
foot, installed.

I'm not poking fun at you fellas...I've been taken to the cleaners
myself many times in connection with boat stuff...

Wow!


BTW, I am not defending my decision - hell, it' my boat, but as I
mentioned before, the technique of application is as important as the
qualities of the product. There's a little artistic capability required
for a good looking installation. I have an engine room access hatch in
the cockpit plus fuel fills and drains. When they install this stuff
there is a bit of detailed trim design that goes into the work.

Eisboch

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:24:57 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

I'm sorry...but $30+ a foot to lay vinyl sheet goods? Are they using
off-shift plastic surgeons?

I had my living, dining roon and hallway done in top-of-the-line Bruce
oak strip flooring for $6.00 a square foot, installed. My wife's
bathroom is floored in Italian marble, which was about $21.00 a square
foot, installed.

I'm not poking fun at you fellas...I've been taken to the cleaners
myself many times in connection with boat stuff...

Wow!

BTW, I am not defending my decision - hell, it' my boat, but as I
mentioned before, the technique of application is as important as the
qualities of the product. There's a little artistic capability required
for a good looking installation. I have an engine room access hatch in
the cockpit plus fuel fills and drains. When they install this stuff
there is a bit of detailed trim design that goes into the work.

Would you believe the T-top on my Contender cost less than the labor
to install it?

Later,

Tom

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Harry Krause

I'm sorry...but $30+ a foot to lay vinyl sheet goods? Are they using
off-shift plastic surgeons?


It's a boat Harry, and you know what B.O.A.T. stands for, right? :-)

Capt. Bill

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Harry Krause

nstalled by guys using sheet goods cutting
knives and I presume waterproof contact cement of some sort.

Troweled on epoxy, as I recall.

Capt. Bill

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Short Wave Sportfishing

Would you believe the T-top on my Contender cost less than the labor
to install it?

Later,

Tom


Would you believe that goes without saying to anyone who owns a boat. :-)

Capt. Bill

Harry Krause wrote:
LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: Flexiteek followup
From: Harry Krause

nstalled by guys using sheet goods cutting
knives and I presume waterproof contact cement of some sort.

Troweled on epoxy, as I recall.

Capt. Bill


Oh, well, THAT explains the price.

I think there are two types. One is applied with a polyurethane
adhesive, the other with an epoxy. I suspect the polyurethane type does
not have the aggressive grooves on the back, whereas the epoxy type
does. I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect it is so.

Eisboch