Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable settlement
with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with my 4.2 kW
generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to shut down the
Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will
do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There have
been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics. Quite a
bit of good information was posted, and I would like to suggest to Fischer
Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a circumnavigation, but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

So your blackmail worked. Congratulations for
making future purchases by those who had nothing
to do with it much more expensive through litigation
and harassment. All because you were too inept to
properly maintain your genset.

S.Simon


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message 4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable settlement
with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with my 4.2 kW
generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to shut down the
Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will
do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There have
been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics. Quite a
bit of good information was posted, and I would like to suggest to Fischer
Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a circumnavigation, but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
bit of good information was posted, and I would like to suggest to Fischer
Panda that they consider creating their own forum.


Vendor or Mfg's web forums are self-serving.. Just try to pose a question or
comment that might make their product look as bad as it is and see how it is
treated.. (The Cap'n forum is a good example of that.)..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Thanks for the constructive comments. I always enjoy watching people
sling mud when it's apparent that they know nothing of what they're
talking about. Somehow or another I am able to maintain all of the
other systems on my boat without any problems. It was just this one.

I will also admit that perhaps the cost of the generators will go up as
Fischer Panda has hired a person to perform customer relations. Sarah's
job is to work with customers to make sure that this type of situation
doesn't occur in the future. I'm sorry if my efforts have made it
better for future customers.

-- Geoff

"Simple Simon" wrote in
:

So your blackmail worked. Congratulations for
making future purchases by those who had nothing
to do with it much more expensive through litigation
and harassment. All because you were too inept to
properly maintain your genset.

S.Simon


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable
settlement with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with
my 4.2 kW generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to
shut down the Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at
www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a
circumnavigation, but I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New
Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Can you forward the site to me to host? Don't you think other
unsuspecting consumers (suckers) who buy a Fisher Panda should get the
benefit of your research? What is the formula to get Fisher Panda to
roll over? If they would just post it on their website or make it option
"7" on their automated service phone line, everyone would get the royal
treatment like you.

Congrats and happy sailing.

Geoffrey W. Schultz wrote:
Thanks for the constructive comments. I always enjoy watching people
sling mud when it's apparent that they know nothing of what they're
talking about. Somehow or another I am able to maintain all of the
other systems on my boat without any problems. It was just this one.

I will also admit that perhaps the cost of the generators will go up as
Fischer Panda has hired a person to perform customer relations. Sarah's
job is to work with customers to make sure that this type of situation
doesn't occur in the future. I'm sorry if my efforts have made it
better for future customers.

-- Geoff

"Simple Simon" wrote in
:


So your blackmail worked. Congratulations for
making future purchases by those who had nothing
to do with it much more expensive through litigation
and harassment. All because you were too inept to
properly maintain your genset.

S.Simon


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
. 204.17...

I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable
settlement with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with
my 4.2 kW generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to
shut down the Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at
www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a
circumnavigation, but I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New
Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

That generator is built by Communist slave labor.

No one in their right mind would buy one.

Why did you?

Blackmail may get your money back, but you are still dim witted for buying
one in the first place. Your website zealotry was merely an attempt
(failure) by you to overcompensate for your obvious inadequacies. A real man
would have taken the loss and thrown that nightmare overboard.

Capt RB, ASA

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable settlement
with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with my 4.2 kW
generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to shut down the
Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will
do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There have
been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics. Quite a
bit of good information was posted, and I would like to suggest to Fischer
Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a circumnavigation,
but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped reading alt.sailing.asa

-- Geoff

"Bobsprit" wrote in
link.net:

That generator is built by Communist slave labor.

No one in their right mind would buy one.

Why did you?

Blackmail may get your money back, but you are still dim witted for
buying one in the first place. Your website zealotry was merely an
attempt (failure) by you to overcompensate for your obvious
inadequacies. A real man would have taken the loss and thrown that
nightmare overboard.

Capt RB, ASA

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable
settlement with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with
my 4.2 kW generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to
shut down the Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at
www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a
circumnavigation,
but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New
Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

I'm laughing you off this forum -

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Don't come back either!

Capt RB, ASA


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
7.77...
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped reading alt.sailing.asa

-- Geoff

"Bobsprit" wrote in
link.net:

That generator is built by Communist slave labor.

No one in their right mind would buy one.

Why did you?

Blackmail may get your money back, but you are still dim witted for
buying one in the first place. Your website zealotry was merely an
attempt (failure) by you to overcompensate for your obvious
inadequacies. A real man would have taken the loss and thrown that
nightmare overboard.

Capt RB, ASA

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable
settlement with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with
my 4.2 kW generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to
shut down the Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at
www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a
circumnavigation,
but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New
Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On second thoughts - real men would jerk off on it before the deep-6
act - right Bob ?????


On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:08:11 GMT, "Bobsprit" wrote:

That generator is built by Communist slave labor.

No one in their right mind would buy one.

Why did you?

Blackmail may get your money back, but you are still dim witted for buying
one in the first place. Your website zealotry was merely an attempt
(failure) by you to overcompensate for your obvious inadequacies. A real man
would have taken the loss and thrown that nightmare overboard.

Capt RB, ASA

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
04.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable settlement
with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with my 4.2 kW
generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to shut down the
Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will
do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There have
been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics. Quite a
bit of good information was posted, and I would like to suggest to Fischer
Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a circumnavigation,
but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

That's not laffing - that's jerking - HAHAHAHAHAHA - NO SQUIRT - No
MAN - No SQUIRT


On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:45:46 GMT, "Bobsprit" wrote:

I'm laughing you off this forum -

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Don't come back either!

Capt RB, ASA


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
27.77...
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped reading alt.sailing.asa

-- Geoff

"Bobsprit" wrote in
link.net:

That generator is built by Communist slave labor.

No one in their right mind would buy one.

Why did you?

Blackmail may get your money back, but you are still dim witted for
buying one in the first place. Your website zealotry was merely an
attempt (failure) by you to overcompensate for your obvious
inadequacies. A real man would have taken the loss and thrown that
nightmare overboard.

Capt RB, ASA

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable
settlement with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with
my 4.2 kW generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to
shut down the Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at
www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a
circumnavigation,
but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New
Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, "Bobsprit" wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator is built by
Communist slave labor. * * *

What (if any) is the factual basis for this statement?

(Based at least on some still just preliminary querying, we were
considering buying one and yet might be influenced in whether to do so
by a well-supported answer to this question.)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Absolutely none. It's built in Germany. Just consider the source.

-- Geoff

wrote in :

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, "Bobsprit" wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator is built by
Communist slave labor. * * *

What (if any) is the factual basis for this statement?

(Based at least on some still just preliminary querying, we were
considering buying one and yet might be influenced in whether to do so
by a well-supported answer to this question.)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

See,,,,The power of the internet,,congrats Geoff, glad you worked it
out, now if only they would make a realiable generator,(mine was
not),get some good reports they may make it in Europe. Do Americans
buy German and French products anymore?,,,I don't,no way. Geoff, I
sure enjoy your website and will follow your travels. Craig




JJ wrote in message . ..
That's not laffing - that's jerking - HAHAHAHAHAHA - NO SQUIRT - No
MAN - No SQUIRT


On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:45:46 GMT, "Bobsprit" wrote:

I'm laughing you off this forum -

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Don't come back either!

Capt RB, ASA


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
27.77...
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped reading alt.sailing.asa

-- Geoff

"Bobsprit" wrote in
link.net:

That generator is built by Communist slave labor.

No one in their right mind would buy one.

Why did you?

Blackmail may get your money back, but you are still dim witted for
buying one in the first place. Your website zealotry was merely an
attempt (failure) by you to overcompensate for your obvious
inadequacies. A real man would have taken the loss and thrown that
nightmare overboard.

Capt RB, ASA

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I am happy to announce that I have reached a mutually agreeable
settlement with Fischer Panda regarding issues that I have had with
my 4.2 kW generator. Per the terms of the agreement I am required to
shut down the Fischer Panda Owner's Forum located at
www.FischerPandaSucks.com. I will do this on December 28, 2003.

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.

I'm about to head off to the South Pacific to begin a
circumnavigation,
but
I can still be reached by e-mail.

Here's wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season and a Great New
Year!

-- Geoff Schultz
www.geoffschultz.org
(delete the "AT" from my return address to e-mail me)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

And who do you think the source is?


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
9.17...
Absolutely none. It's built in Germany. Just consider the source.

-- Geoff

wrote in :

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, "Bobsprit" wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator is built by
Communist slave labor. * * *

What (if any) is the factual basis for this statement?

(Based at least on some still just preliminary querying, we were
considering buying one and yet might be influenced in whether to do so
by a well-supported answer to this question.)

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, "Bobsprit" wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator is built by
Communist slave labor. * * *

What (if any) is the factual basis for this statement?

(Based at least on some still just preliminary querying, we were
considering buying one and yet might be influenced in whether to do so
by a well-supported answer to this question.)


There's very little in the PRC that isn't "built" by a horribly
exploited workforce. Pennies an hour if they're lucky, in most cases. If
I see a product I want and it says Made in China, I simply don't buy it.

--
Email sent to is never read.

You may not like non-union PRC, but as usual you blow smoke. FisherPanda is
made in Poland.

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:44:30 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


You may not like non-union PRC, but as usual you blow smoke. FisherPanda is
made in Poland.

(Insert Polish Jokes
here______________________________________________ )


Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:44:30 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


You may not like non-union PRC, but as usual you blow smoke. FisherPanda is
made in Poland.


(Insert Polish Jokes
here______________________________________________ )


Larry W4CSC

NNNN

A marry christmas to you Larry how's it going??

Take care, nothing much has changed at the NG:-)

K

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:44:30 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


You may not like non-union PRC, but as usual you blow smoke. FisherPanda is
made in Poland.


(Insert Polish Jokes
here_Harry walks into a generator shop & says I want a generator but it must have nothing to do with the Poles, the bloke says ; then it won't work._____________________________________________ )


Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

WaIIy wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:32:43 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:


On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:44:30 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


You may not like non-union PRC, but as usual you blow smoke. FisherPanda is
made in Poland.


(Insert Polish Jokes
here____________________________________________ __)


Larry W4CSC

NNNN


How many Fisher-Panda generators does it take to ___________________ ?

Catch a clump of bamboo.

Hope you're having a good christmas

K

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 16:47:08 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


WaIIy wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:32:43 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:



On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:44:30 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:



You may not like non-union PRC, but as usual you blow smoke. FisherPanda is
made in Poland.


(Insert Polish Jokes
here__________________________________________ ____)


Larry W4CSC

NNNN


How many Fisher-Panda generators does it take to ___________________ ?

Catch a clump of bamboo.

Hope you're having a good christmas

K


I hope you are, Karen. The most important little guy in our life came
over tonight for dinner and gifts. Our 20 month-old grandson.
Tomorrow the neices will be here for dinner with all of their kids,
along with our kids, etc.
I got a Tollycraft fleece, so I'm happy.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Wally and Family

A great day so far but I've eaten too much!!! oops & I lost the
grandkids vs me water pistol war worse than the Iraqis got trounced by
the coalition:-)

Wow that would be nice too, to actually need a jumper it's hot here.

I know we're all just having fun but Harry "is" OK isn't he???:-)

Good thing I don't drink imagine how I'd behave (or misbehave) then!!!

Have a good christmas day to all.

K

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On 25 Dec 2003 17:17:09 GMT, (Karl Denninger)
wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator...
we were considering buying one...

Don't.

Buy a Kohler. 5 year, 2000 hour recreational warranty, INCLUDING REMOVE
AND REPLACE LABOR.

You can't beat that ANYWHERE.

I've owned one for 2+ years now, and have over 600 hours on it. It has been
a 100% trouble-free piece of equipment. I'd buy another in a heartbeat,
and recommend the unit to everyone I come across who needs one.

This note has such a ring of confidence about it.... reminds me that I
bought an econobox with a 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty.
And would you believe it, I had no mentionable problems in ten years.

Manufacturers who offer impressive sounding warranties usually have a
distinct hunch it ain't gonna cost them the ranch. That's my
experience anyway.

Brian W

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:49:07 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


A marry christmas to you Larry how's it going??

Take care, nothing much has changed at the NG:-)

K

Goin' fine. How ya been?

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:49:07 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


A marry christmas to you Larry how's it going??

Take care, nothing much has changed at the NG:-)

K


Goin' fine. How ya been?

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Great we all miss you of course but I understand. Again I do apologise
for the cross posting of my Harry wars, I'll be more careful.

Take care hope the sailing is going well.

K

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:37:57 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


Great we all miss you of course but I understand. Again I do apologise
for the cross posting of my Harry wars, I'll be more careful.

Thank you.

Take care hope the sailing is going well.

Helping a fried rebuild an Amel Sharki 41' ketch so we can head for
Bahamas in late March through the Daytona Beach-Charleston race in
late May. Its engine replacement has been delayed until Monday. I'll
be working in the bilge while the engine guys got 'er out of the
hole....(c;

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:37:57 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


Great we all miss you of course but I understand. Again I do apologise
for the cross posting of my Harry wars, I'll be more careful.


Thank you.

Take care hope the sailing is going well.


Helping a fried rebuild an Amel Sharki 41' ketch so we can head for
Bahamas in late March through the Daytona Beach-Charleston race in
late May. Its engine replacement has been delayed until Monday. I'll
be working in the bilge while the engine guys got 'er out of the
hole....(c;

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Bahamas!! well done; have a great time, we're only here for a short
while so enjoy to the max at every opportunity.

Imagine if a mate wanted you to clean out & make spotless the grease
pit in his garage while he was getting the new car engine ready:-) But
when it's the grease pit in a nice boat?? suddenly it's almost
enjoyable; almost:-)

I'm so glad all is well with you please check in sometimes & say hello.
I mean it, many here miss your posts. All we've got to do now is get
Marcus to check in from time to time:-)

Best Regards,

Karen

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

I have a FP 12kW genset and out of interest read of Geoffs experience.
I have to say that from the evidence on the www from both FP and GS,
the installation does sound rather suspect and that water was being
drawn back into the engine. I have a couple of observations. FP
units are used by most Formula 1 racing teams in their motor homes and
many outside TV broadcasting vehicles. If they were not inherently
reliable, I am sure that another manufacturer would be used.
If you are going to have an engine, or genset in a boat why not follow
the KISS principle and use keel cooling and mirror how your car engine
is cooled by the environment in which it operates. No raw salt water
circuit at all - and put a water trap into the exhaust line so that
any water in the line does not get back to the engine.
I think he did too well - but I guess that is the sue anything/anyone
climate in the USA - rather than remotely accept any personal
responsibility in life.

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:08:00 +0000, Grouch wrote:

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.


http://forum.fischerpanda.de