Temperature of water freezing question
 

A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing into
ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the time
it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine blocks
and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats could
probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much change
right? The answer was surprising! What do you think?
Dixon

dixon wrote:
A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing into
ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the time
it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine blocks
and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats could
probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much change
right? The answer was surprising! What do you think?

If ice did not have the almost unique characteristic of expanding
slightly, life on Earth (as we know it) would not be possible.

The most obvious thing would be the lack of a northern polar ice cap,
which would cause very different weather patterns.

Interesting question.

Regards
Doug King

You're not suggesting my mixed-drink would turn into an imploding vortex of
death, are you? ARE YOU??


"dixon" wrote in message
news:3u2kd.76623$R05.15860@attbi_s53...
A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing
into
ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the time
it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine blocks
and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats could
probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much change
right? The answer was surprising! What do you think?
Dixon

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:11:43 GMT, "dixon"
wrote:

A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing into
ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the time
it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine blocks
and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats could
probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much change
right? The answer was surprising! What do you think?

Off the cuff guess:

The pressure would increase so I would imagine that the crush strength
would be higher resulting in more damage.

It also kind of depends on the percentage of the decrease in volume.

I must ruminate on this a little more.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:11:43 +0000, dixon wrote:

A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing
into ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the
time it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine
blocks and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats
could probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much
change right? The answer was surprising! What do you think? Dixon

Well, among other things, ice would sink. The end result could be, no
more northern lakes, as the ice would fill them, and only the top layer
would thaw.

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:57:25 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:11:43 +0000, dixon wrote:

A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing
into ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the
time it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine
blocks and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats
could probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much
change right? The answer was surprising! What do you think? Dixon

Well, among other things, ice would sink. The end result could be, no
more northern lakes, as the ice would fill them, and only the top layer
would thaw.

Kind of a reverse turn over only permanent.

Interesting.

Later,

Tom

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:02:54 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Kind of a reverse turn over only permanent.

Speaking of northern things, if you pop your head outside tonight there is
the possibility of the Aurora showing it's pretty face.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index....8670845140.xml

dixon wrote:
A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing into
ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At the time
it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked engine blocks
and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats could
probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not much change
right? The answer was surprising! What do you think?
Dixon




It only expands because as the water freezes it does so as lots of tiny
ice crystals, there is some space (small) between these crystals. Change
of state from a chemically homogeneous liquid (H2O) to a tightly packed
lump of solid (ice) crystals

So a kg of ice has a larger volume than a kg of liquid water, that's
why it floats.

Whenever water freezes the ice crystals no matter how tightly packed
have to take up more volume than the water did & oops the cast iron
engine block just can't accommodate a volume increase of say 5-10%.

That dumb uneducated lying idiot Krause has for years argued here that
a timber boat of the same weight as boat of any other materials, will
"float" higher in the water because... wait for it....wait....... wood
floats!!!:-)



K

It only expands because as the water freezes it does so as lots of tiny
ice crystals

It's not quite that simple. Water at 1c is actually smaller than it is a 4c,
the most dense state.
That is the answer to the question "what is the temperature of of the water at
the bottom of a pond that is frozen on top". (in case you get that on your
physics test)

A physics teacher once asked what would happen if water, when freezing
into ice, became smaller as it got colder like all other materials. At
the
time it seemed simple, the ice wouldn't expand so no more cracked
engine
blocks and manifolds. Also docks wouldn't be lifted in winter and boats
could probably be left in the water all winter. Other than that, not
much
change right? The answer was surprising! What do you think? Dixon

Well, among other things, ice would sink. The end result could be, no
more northern lakes, as the ice would fill them, and only the top layer
would thaw.

Kind of a reverse turn over only permanent.

Interesting.

Later,

Tom

The way I was told the ice wouldn't form at the surface and thus insulate
the water below from freezing. Oceans and lakes would freeze from bottom up
due to the denser ice sinking. The ice caps would grow larger. Lakes
wouldn't completely thaw in summer. The growing area of ice would reflect
sunlight, further cooling the earth to a point where the planet would be
uninhabitable. All water would soon be ice. I'll admit there may be holes
in the theory somewhere though.
Dixon