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Question about EPIRB's
Guys,
I am thinking about buying an EPIRB and hope its one of these things that when you have it you will never have to use it ... I want one of the more sophisticated ones that send GPS coordinates to a satellite. Now i wonder do the ones that send GPS coordinates also send the 406 MHz beacon signal so that in case the GPS fails or doesnt get a lock you will still be found? The other question is: Are these things legal to use on land for backcountry 4wheeling and such? Matt |
On 7 Nov 2004 21:02:20 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote:
Guys, I am thinking about buying an EPIRB and hope its one of these things that when you have it you will never have to use it ... I want one of the more sophisticated ones that send GPS coordinates to a satellite. Now i wonder do the ones that send GPS coordinates also send the 406 MHz beacon signal so that in case the GPS fails or doesnt get a lock you will still be found? The other question is: Are these things legal to use on land for backcountry 4wheeling and such? Matt I grabbed the following at: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/epirb.htm "A new type of 406 MHz EPIRB, having an integral GPS navigation receiver, became available in 1998. This EPIRB will send accurate location as well as identification information to rescue authorities immediately upon activation through both geostationary (GEOSAR) and polar orbiting satellites. These types of EPIRB are the best you can buy." The 406MHz beacon even without the added GPS signal will still allow rescuers to find your location within 2 to 5 km. The GPS obviously increases the accuracy to perhaps a 100 meters or less (my guess assuming you have a satellite lock on). The EPIRB is intended for maritime use. While you would get a response if you activated one while 4wheeling , there could be legal ramifications. However, in a life or death situation, the legal consequences might be damned. To be honest, I don't know what, if any legal implications there may or may not be. I know they can work on land from a story reported a few years ago. Seems some thieves broke into a boat and stole a bunch of equipment. While toying with their ill gotten gains, they set off the EPIRB. That brought emergency rescue crews and the police straight to their apartment. Australia has an interesting take on the use of personal locators for "bushwalkers". http://home.vicnet.net.au/~vicwalk/epirb/intro.html For a possible alternate rescue device for 4wheeling and such, I would ask what might be a available in another newsgroup such as alt.satellite.gps or sci.geo.satellite-nav. There is a wealth of knowledge in those groups. Regards John S I would rather be boating! |
On 7 Nov 2004 21:02:20 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote:
Guys, I am thinking about buying an EPIRB and hope its one of these things that when you have it you will never have to use it ... I want one of the more sophisticated ones that send GPS coordinates to a satellite. Now i wonder do the ones that send GPS coordinates also send the 406 MHz beacon signal so that in case the GPS fails or doesnt get a lock you will still be found? The other question is: Are these things legal to use on land for backcountry 4wheeling and such? Matt OK, found something that might interest you. See the link below: http://www.rei.com/online/store/Lear...mp/clplbsf.jsp The following is a quote from the link: "While PLBs became available for use in the U.S. on July 1, 2003, this powerful technology has been around for decades. If you have sal****er boating experience, you may be familiar with Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons (EPIRBS). These devices, designed exclusively for marine environments, have been in use for over 20 years and saved nearly 15,000 lives. PLBs are the land-based equivalents of EPIRBS and utilize the same satellite networks. So why has the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) only recently approved PLBs for use in the United States? Previously, no unified organization for land-based rescues has existed. While the U.S. Coast Guard serves as the point of contact for marine rescues, different states have long handled terrestrial rescues through a variety of organizations. To overcome this issue, the FCC, NOAA and the U.S. Air Force recently teamed up and designated the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) as the single point of contact for land-based rescues. The AFRCC in turn has established connections and software compatibility with search and rescue groups in each state." My guess is an EPIRB registered for maritime use and a PLB for 4 wheeling. Regards John S I would rather be boating! |
John S wrote:
Here downunder we have lots of the cheap (& much less accurate) 121.5/243 epirbs. They're law on ALL boats regardless of the boat's length etc if it's more than 2 miles offshore. There are exemptions for larger bays & impoundments etc, but in general terms all boats that go out of harbours have to carry an in test epirb. This has been the law in most states for many years & seeing they only have a test life of 5 yrs & new batteries/re-test are almost as expensive as a new epirb (about A$210, US153) we all have a gaggle of unused & workable (I have one which was out of test in 93 but the test light still flashes, probably not for long:-)) but useless epirbs lying around:-) Offshore yacht races, each crew member has to have a personal one in their life jacket. Seems a bit strict to you I guess & we all said that when they became law but like seatbelts in cars etc they've saved many lives & in a big mostly empty country with the biggest coast of any, have saved the taxpayers a huge amount on searches which are invariably fruitless. The latest here is mandatory life jacket wearing on boats up to 6.5 mtrs, lots of "discussion" but if it saves lives.........in 10 years we'll all have gotten used to it. Only thing is comfortable non restricting life jackets are a bit expensive. K On 7 Nov 2004 21:02:20 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote: Guys, I am thinking about buying an EPIRB and hope its one of these things that when you have it you will never have to use it ... I want one of the more sophisticated ones that send GPS coordinates to a satellite. Now i wonder do the ones that send GPS coordinates also send the 406 MHz beacon signal so that in case the GPS fails or doesnt get a lock you will still be found? The other question is: Are these things legal to use on land for backcountry 4wheeling and such? Matt I grabbed the following at: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/epirb.htm "A new type of 406 MHz EPIRB, having an integral GPS navigation receiver, became available in 1998. This EPIRB will send accurate location as well as identification information to rescue authorities immediately upon activation through both geostationary (GEOSAR) and polar orbiting satellites. These types of EPIRB are the best you can buy." The 406MHz beacon even without the added GPS signal will still allow rescuers to find your location within 2 to 5 km. The GPS obviously increases the accuracy to perhaps a 100 meters or less (my guess assuming you have a satellite lock on). The EPIRB is intended for maritime use. While you would get a response if you activated one while 4wheeling , there could be legal ramifications. However, in a life or death situation, the legal consequences might be damned. To be honest, I don't know what, if any legal implications there may or may not be. I know they can work on land from a story reported a few years ago. Seems some thieves broke into a boat and stole a bunch of equipment. While toying with their ill gotten gains, they set off the EPIRB. That brought emergency rescue crews and the police straight to their apartment. Australia has an interesting take on the use of personal locators for "bushwalkers". http://home.vicnet.net.au/~vicwalk/epirb/intro.html For a possible alternate rescue device for 4wheeling and such, I would ask what might be a available in another newsgroup such as alt.satellite.gps or sci.geo.satellite-nav. There is a wealth of knowledge in those groups. Regards John S I would rather be boating! |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:20:51 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote:
John S wrote: Here downunder we have lots of the cheap (& much less accurate) 121.5/243 epirbs. They're law on ALL boats regardless of the boat's length etc if it's more than 2 miles offshore. There are exemptions for larger bays & impoundments etc, but in general terms all boats that go out of harbours have to carry an in test epirb. This has been the law in most states for many years & seeing they only have a test life of 5 yrs & new batteries/re-test are almost as expensive as a new epirb (about A$210, US153) we all have a gaggle of unused & workable (I have one which was out of test in 93 but the test light still flashes, probably not for long:-)) but useless epirbs lying around:-) Offshore yacht races, each crew member has to have a personal one in their life jacket. Seems a bit strict to you I guess & we all said that when they became law but like seatbelts in cars etc they've saved many lives & in a big mostly empty country with the biggest coast of any, have saved the taxpayers a huge amount on searches which are invariably fruitless. The latest here is mandatory life jacket wearing on boats up to 6.5 mtrs, lots of "discussion" but if it saves lives.........in 10 years we'll all have gotten used to it. Only thing is comfortable non restricting life jackets are a bit expensive. Actually, I like the idea of mandatory EPIRBs. I sometimes boat on our Lake Erie (a fresh water lake) and at times venture out 15 or 20 miles following the fish in what we call the Central Basin. An emergency out that far could really be a problem. Seeing as how the prices have dropped so dramatically over the years, I guess I don't have a good excuse for not having one myself. As for the life vests, my wife and I wear CO2 inflatable's while underway. Even though both of us are fairly decent swimmers, we wear regular vests when swimming from the anchored boat. For kayaking, we have high quality vests made for paddling. I just discovered the PLB's are legal here in the US as of last year. Some of my hobbies take me tramping through the woods to some relatively remote locations. I am getting up in age and the added insurance of a PLB would be welcome. Seems like you folks downunder got your act together when it comes to safety. Congrats! Regards John S I would rather be boating! |
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On 7 Nov 2004 21:02:20 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote: Guys, I am thinking about buying an EPIRB and hope its one of these things that when you have it you will never have to use it ... I want one of the more sophisticated ones that send GPS coordinates to a satellite. Now i wonder do the ones that send GPS coordinates also send the 406 MHz beacon signal so that in case the GPS fails or doesnt get a lock you will still be found? The other question is: Are these things legal to use on land for backcountry 4wheeling and such? I can't add any more to what John S said except to say that there is a land based beacon called PLB. These were recently released for public use after a test in Alaska. They work the same way as a EPIRB or ELT and have the exact same features only they are limited to land based use. I don't know if they are legal in Australia yet. You might want to go here and drop them an email to check if PLBs are. http://www.telstat.com.au/eirpbs.htm Good luck. Later, Tom "Beware the one legged man in a butt kicking contest - he is there for a reason." Wun Hung Lo - date unknown Very interesting! I emailed the CG to find out if maybe one of these devices may do for land and water use... Thanks to all for the info! Matt |
On 8 Nov 2004 22:42:57 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . .. On 7 Nov 2004 21:02:20 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote: Guys, I am thinking about buying an EPIRB and hope its one of these things that when you have it you will never have to use it ... I want one of the more sophisticated ones that send GPS coordinates to a satellite. Now i wonder do the ones that send GPS coordinates also send the 406 MHz beacon signal so that in case the GPS fails or doesnt get a lock you will still be found? The other question is: Are these things legal to use on land for backcountry 4wheeling and such? I can't add any more to what John S said except to say that there is a land based beacon called PLB. These were recently released for public use after a test in Alaska. They work the same way as a EPIRB or ELT and have the exact same features only they are limited to land based use. I don't know if they are legal in Australia yet. You might want to go here and drop them an email to check if PLBs are. http://www.telstat.com.au/eirpbs.htm Good luck. Later, Tom "Beware the one legged man in a butt kicking contest - he is there for a reason." Wun Hung Lo - date unknown Very interesting! I emailed the CG to find out if maybe one of these devices may do for land and water use... Thanks to all for the info! Matt Hey Matt If you get an answer could you please post it here? I am really interested in the results. As I mentioned, I am on the water a lot but other hobbies carry me deep into some forested areas. It would be awful hard to find me if I slipped and broke a leg or something. I know, I broke a leg snowmobiling. Fortunately others were around to get emergency service have me carried off the field. Regards John S I would rather be boating! |
[snippage]
Hey Matt If you get an answer could you please post it here? I am really interested in the results. As I mentioned, I am on the water a lot but other hobbies carry me deep into some forested areas. It would be awful hard to find me if I slipped and broke a leg or something. I know, I broke a leg snowmobiling. Fortunately others were around to get emergency service have me carried off the field. Regards John S I would rather be boating! The CG sent a standard letter ( see below) After reading through their links I come to the following conclusions: - PLB and EPIRP seems to be the same technology and frequency - dont waste your money for anything except 406 MHz EPRIRB with or without GPS - Having a VHF radio wont hurt either way - They dont say you CANT use EPIRBS on land but I read this between the lines. The reason being the registration and that it has to be registered to a vessel. However, before i die somewhere i would bring the EPIRB on land and hope someone comes to save my ass. Deal with the legal BS later, after you survive. - There are PLB with GPS as there are EPRIB wth GPS. EPIRBS are built for marine environment, which menas they float upright and some activate themsefes , etc. - They didnt answer if EPIRBS are more or less for offshore or also for large lakes and rivers. - If you are in woods, chances are you will not be able to transmit a GPS location as your GPS (if you have one) IN the PLB will not receive a signal from the satellite and who knows if the EPIRB will get through to the satellite. If you dont have any broken bones in an emergency, climb a tree to get a clear view to the sky or hike to a clearing or open water, THEN activate the PLB. - An alternative to all this is a satellite phone or depending how remote you are a cell phone with extenal powerful antenna, and we are talking powerful and large. - After having tried a normal red flare during halloween fireworks (I know .. but there was NO way it could have been mistaken for an emergency). I am deeply dissapointed of cheap flares as lifesaver. You would have to have been RIGHT THERE to notice this thing during the 3 second 40 feet "flight" - I will be ordering serious PARACHUTE SOLAS flares (EPIRB or not)and put the others ones in the toy box .. Hopefully someone has more knowledge about this and isnt tied up in political discussions ;) Matt ----------------- Thank you for your email, dated 09 November 2004, requesting information on Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacons. The Canadian Beacon Registry program maintains a centralized database in which it registers distress-alerting transmitters such as the following: -Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs) -Emergency Positioning Indicator Radio Beacons (EPIRBs) -Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs) * An Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB) is a maritime distress-alerting transmitter used on ships. * A Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) is a distress-alerting transmitter used by people who take part in land activities in remote areas, such as hiking or camping. * An Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) is an aeronautical distress-alerting transmitter used aboard aircraft. The Registry provides information on the owners of registered beacons, including persons, vessels and aircraft to the Canadian Mission Control Centre and Rescue Coordination Centres during search and rescue operations. Beacon registration is mandatory. Canadian radio beacons can be registered on-line through the Canadian Beacon Registry System Web site. The Department of National Defence's Joint Rescue Coordination Centres direct search and rescue operations in response to aeronautical and maritime incidents in Canada and its adjacent waters. Fisheries and Oceans Canada's Joint Rescue Coordination Centres carry out search and rescue operations in response to marine incidents on federal navigable waterways. You may contact the Canadian Beacon Registry program at the following: Canadian Beacon Registry 275 Slater Street, 4th Floor Ottawa, ON K1A 0K2 Toll-free Telephone: (800)727-9414 8:30 am to 5 pm If you choose to register on-line, you may do so at the following: http://www.nss.gc.ca/site/cospas-sar...cyBeacon_e.asp You may also contact them at the following e-mail: Fax: (613) 996-3746 Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require additional information. Sincerely, General inquiries / Renseignements généraux 613-993-0999 facsimile / télécopieur: 613-990-1866 TTY/ATS: 613-941-6517 Fisheries and Oceans Canada | 200 Kent Street Station 13228 Ottawa ON K1A 0E6 Pêches et Océans Canada | 200 rue Kent Station 13228 Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0E6 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada --------------- |
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