Question about capsizing a small boat
 

Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken

My (now ex-)wife, son and I took a canoe safety course a few years back. The
instructor needed to teach us how to right a flipped canoe, so naturally, we
had to flip it first. It took a concerted effort to do this. It's not as
easy as you think. 170 lb man, 150 lb woman, 75 lb kid - we had to start the
thing rocking and then at the right moment, lean way over.

The same summer, I bought this stupid f**king rope ladder for my 14'
aluminum yacht, intended to help swimmers out of the water. Dumb ladder. It
took two people *in* the boat to pull a swimmer out of the water. The yacht
listed, the gunwale came within inches of the water, but the boat refused to
go any further (not that we wanted it to). This was with me stepping on the
stupid f**king rope ladder, and the other two right at the gunwale offering
assistance.

Maybe a boat with more of a rounded bottom would tip, but I can only relate
these two experiences. Now, if the water was colder and the spouses had just
had an argument, everything might be different.

"K" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume
that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the
three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up
on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken

"K" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume
that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the
three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up
on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken


I would suggest the boat would tip throwing all into the water. The question
is...would it remain upright with 'some' water inside.
I can remember coming up to a dock after sailing a 12' Kolbi. I had taken
the dagger board up and was about to step off. I ended up with my hands on
the dock and my toes still in the boat. The rest of me was bridged over the
gap.

Interesting.
My first thought to the original post was that putting feet up on one
gunwale wouldn't change much - the centers of gravity and buoyance would
still be pretty much aligned.
If they were determined to cause the boat to tip, they'd have to stand up
and lean to cause the center of gravity to be outside the center of
bouyancy.
After reading your post, I suspect that they wouldn't all go overboard at
the same time, so I would expect the boat to right itself and not
necessarily ever take water over the gunwale.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
My (now ex-)wife, son and I took a canoe safety course a few years back.
The
instructor needed to teach us how to right a flipped canoe, so naturally,
we
had to flip it first. It took a concerted effort to do this. It's not as
easy as you think. 170 lb man, 150 lb woman, 75 lb kid - we had to start
the
thing rocking and then at the right moment, lean way over.

The same summer, I bought this stupid f**king rope ladder for my 14'
aluminum yacht, intended to help swimmers out of the water. Dumb ladder.
It
took two people *in* the boat to pull a swimmer out of the water. The
yacht
listed, the gunwale came within inches of the water, but the boat refused
to
go any further (not that we wanted it to). This was with me stepping on
the
stupid f**king rope ladder, and the other two right at the gunwale
offering
assistance.

Maybe a boat with more of a rounded bottom would tip, but I can only
relate
these two experiences. Now, if the water was colder and the spouses had
just
had an argument, everything might be different.

"K" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an
outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume
that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or
harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the
three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot
up
on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken

Other than having the misfortune of being dumped out of a canoe once I am
not an expert. That being said it would depend largely on the type of boat
and the circumstances. A fairly wide beam flat bottom boat is almost
impossible to tip over. Some of the round bottom row boats that were
popular in the last century might be more likely to tip one or more of the
occupants into the water and then right itself. In my own experience that
is the most likely result. In my own wet experience the canoe I dumped
myself out of dumped me into the water, took on some water, and righted
itself with both of my kids still in the canoe. It is a fairly wide beam
lake canoe. I suppose a narrow beam river canoe would be slightly more
likely to capsize.

As a side note. My uncle Paul and I spent many an hour canoeing on fish and
camp trips with a narrow beam Oldtown river canoe, and other than the rain
we never even got wet. Not in the roughest sections of the rivers we ran.

--
** FREE Fishing Lures
** Weekly drawing
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
** www.YumaBassMan.com


"K" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume
that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the
three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up
on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken

If I were reading a story I'd believe it if they all leaned out and it
tipped over. You might plant something earlier in the story about the boat
being tippy though.



"K" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume
that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the
three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up
on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:28:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

The same summer, I bought this stupid f**king rope ladder for my 14'
aluminum yacht, intended to help swimmers out of the water. Dumb ladder.
It
took two people *in* the boat to pull a swimmer out of the water. The
yacht
listed, the gunwale came within inches of the water, but the boat refused
to
go any further (not that we wanted it to). This was with me stepping on
the
stupid f**king rope ladder, and the other two right at the gunwale
offering
assistance.

I'm glad to see you could finally vent about that rope ladder.

I am thinking about getting a rope ladder for my boat.

What do you think?

The kind I bought has hard plastic steps, with ropes running vertically
through holes in the steps. The main problem is that when you try to climb,
the ladder (which isn't rigid, obviously) wants to go under the boat, which
leaves you leaning backwards. Pretty comical, actually, except that when
you're on just the right step to try and haul your leg over the gunwale, the
other kneecap's located exactly at the gunwale, threatening to get smacked
as you flop away from and back toward the boat.

I bought it for two reasons. First, my boat's too small for a rigid ladder,
and this rope thing collapses into a package the size of maybe a loaf of
Wonder bread. And, I don't have enough flat, vertical area beneath the
gunwales to be able to use the rigid ladders with those little feet that
fold out and brace against the side. If YOUR boat will work with a rigid
ladder, forget the rope version, unless you just want to have it stashed
someplace for emergencies.

To its credit, though, the rope ladder has some potential in terms of
dealing with an unruly guest who needs a tuneup and a lesson in humility.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:06:55 GMT, "K" wrote:

Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks...
-Ken



Gee ambulance chaser, i mean Ken, i don't know. Were they wearing
life vests?

My sailboat is an 18.5 foot Sandpiper. I ordered a hinged stainless steel
boarding ladder that I will bolt through the transom. When underway, the
four steps hinge up and can be fastened to the stern rail.

"Don White" wrote in message
...

My sailboat is an 18.5 foot Sandpiper. I ordered a hinged stainless steel
boarding ladder that I will bolt through the transom. When underway, the
four steps hinge up and can be fastened to the stern rail.



Well...I have to figure something out, even if it involves heavily modifying
a boarding ladder. We're missing out on some good swimming opportunities.

Make sure you get a ladder with enough steps. The one on my 19' runabout has
one step and the platform: the step is only about 1' below the water surface
when in use. While my feet can't go under the boat, as on your rope ladder,
it's natural for those of us with a belly or lack of flexibility to lean
backwards while getting a foot on that step, requiring a lot of upper body
strength to get up and forward. At least one more step in the water would be
a big help.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...

My sailboat is an 18.5 foot Sandpiper. I ordered a hinged stainless
steel
boarding ladder that I will bolt through the transom. When underway,
the
four steps hinge up and can be fastened to the stern rail.



Well...I have to figure something out, even if it involves heavily
modifying
a boarding ladder. We're missing out on some good swimming opportunities.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:06:55 GMT, "K" wrote:

Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.

Interesting question.

The answer that comes to mind is probably not. The instinctive
reaction to rolling a boat over is to lean away from the direction of
the tilt. However, it would be possible to fall out of the boat
without the boat flipping over due to instability. And, just for the
record, if they were all drunk, or fooling around, it probably could
be done, but just stepping on the gunwale it's unlikely.

I have a small '87 12 foot Starcraft that is very tippy and I'm a big
guy, but I've never even come close to rolling it over even being
stupid by leaning out of it to land a fish.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

Thanks to everyone for all of your replies. This is very good information.
It sounds like my little family will be spared the inconvenience of having
to try to right their boat, but I have a sneaking suspicion that one or two
of them will wind up taking an involuntary swim anyway. I'll have to work
on it.
Thanks again.
-Ken



"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:06:55 GMT, "K" wrote:

Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume
that
the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the
three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up
on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.

Interesting question.

The answer that comes to mind is probably not. The instinctive
reaction to rolling a boat over is to lean away from the direction of
the tilt. However, it would be possible to fall out of the boat
without the boat flipping over due to instability. And, just for the
record, if they were all drunk, or fooling around, it probably could
be done, but just stepping on the gunwale it's unlikely.

I have a small '87 12 foot Starcraft that is very tippy and I'm a big
guy, but I've never even come close to rolling it over even being
stupid by leaning out of it to land a fish.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

Around 11/2/2004 12:45 PM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:06:55 GMT, "K" wrote:

How likely is it that the three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.


Interesting question.

The answer that comes to mind is probably not. The instinctive
reaction to rolling a boat over is to lean away from the direction of
the tilt. However, it would be possible to fall out of the boat
without the boat flipping over due to instability. And, just for the
record, if they were all drunk, or fooling around, it probably could
be done, but just stepping on the gunwale it's unlikely.

I agree. Unless they're trying really hard to flip the boat, they'd
probably just dip the gunwale under and at worst swamp themselves.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

K wrote:
: Hi. I'm looking to the experts (the boating experts, not the political
: experts) for some technical help with a writing project I'm working on.
: Say there's a small, open, no frills, 12 or 13 foot boat with an outboard
: motor. In the boat are two adults and their ten year-old son. Assume that
: the boat is sitting stationary in relatively calm waters (bay or harbor),
: and that there's no water inside the boat. How likely is it that the three
: of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot up on
: the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were all
: reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and get
: dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
: Any thoughts welcome.
: Thanks...
: -Ken

Been around boats for 45 years. Owned some small ones.

I'd say "likely". Especially if it were a light weight aluminum hull.
They'd get rather "tippy" with this relatively heavy load and I'd
guess if it had little freeboard, that one side would take on water. Once
that starts happening, it's an additive effect and the boat would more
likely swamp from the side rather than turn over 180 degrees.

b.

"Garth Almgren" wrote in message
...
Around 11/2/2004 12:45 PM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:06:55 GMT, "K" wrote:

How likely is it that the three
of them might capsize it if they were to all simultaneously put a foot
up on
the same side of the hull with most of their weight? Maybe they were
all
reaching out for something. Would they flip the whole thing over and
get
dumped in the water? Is that conceivable? Likely? Doubtful?
Any thoughts welcome.


Interesting question.

The answer that comes to mind is probably not. The instinctive
reaction to rolling a boat over is to lean away from the direction of
the tilt. However, it would be possible to fall out of the boat
without the boat flipping over due to instability. And, just for the
record, if they were all drunk, or fooling around, it probably could
be done, but just stepping on the gunwale it's unlikely.

I agree. Unless they're trying really hard to flip the boat, they'd
probably just dip the gunwale under and at worst swamp themselves.

No matter what happened, it would be the husband's fault.