It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

Poor little Cecil's problem isn't the economy, stupid.
There's probably a computerized machine sitting where his
lazy union ass used to be parked. You can't blame
technology's advances on Bush.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

Paying people to stay home doesn't work....
JR

Harry Krause wrote:

snip
--
Remove X to reply

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:43:32 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter


Illinois was very hard hit with outsourcing. Automation and efficiencies have
also caused a reduction in the manpower needed for many of the manufacturing
plants in Illinois. The recession actually started well before Bush took office,
so to lay the blame on the administration is pointless. How does one expect a
corporation not to try to maximize profit? If the same widget can be made in
Mexico with labor costs of $5/hour versus AFL-CIO labor at a rate of $30/hour,
what can be expected?

As more and more outsourcing occurs, the standard of living in the countries
receiving the work will increase. As the standard of living increases, the
demand for higher wages will (hopefully) do likewise. Eventually, perhaps, a
leveling will occur. Boeing, for example, is outsourcing about 70% of their new
airplane.

Not saying your unions are bad, Harry, but constant demands for higher and
higher wages and benefits eventually take their toll, especially as the
capabilities increase in other countries.

Thanks for posting something besides your routine name-calling. Even a
cut'n'paste is nice, from you.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats
Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the worst
economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats
Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the worst
economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.



NOYB, you'll note that Harry vacated this thread immediately upon being
challenged.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats
Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the worst
economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.



NOYB, you'll note that Harry vacated this thread immediately upon being
challenged.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Bullship. You righties *still* think I feel the *need* to somehow engage
in "debate" with you. I've posted a zillion times that I don't give a
damn what you post. I simply find it humorous that so many of you
righties make such an effort to rationalize away Bush and his failures,
lies, misrepresentations and stupidity.






--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Geez, NOYB, look at the map. I would suggest that there is more of a
correlation to the type of economy, than who controls the legislature.

http://www.lioninc.com/lion/unemployment_by_state1

http://www.statescape.com/Resources/...artysplits.asp

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:14:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats
Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the worst
economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.



NOYB, you'll note that Harry vacated this thread immediately upon being
challenged.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Bullship. You righties *still* think I feel the *need* to somehow engage
in "debate" with you. I've posted a zillion times that I don't give a
damn what you post. I simply find it humorous that so many of you
righties make such an effort to rationalize away Bush and his failures,
lies, misrepresentations and stupidity.

Won't? Can't? Or won't because you can't? Hmmm?

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Geez, NOYB, look at the map. I would suggest that there is more of a
correlation to the type of economy, than who controls the legislature.

http://www.lioninc.com/lion/unemployment_by_state1

http://www.statescape.com/Resources/...artysplits.asp


Try to keep in mind that NOYB is a 30-year-old dentist whose bills were
paid by daddy and mommy and who, after being sheltered through high
school and college and dental school, moved south to Florida, and
without ever experiencing any of the downsides of life, or the
struggles, has now emerged as a snotty-nosed Republican conservative who
knows nothing of consequence about how the world works.

He sure tries to "protect" his hero Dubya the Smirking Chimp, though.
Cast aspersions on any aspect of Dubya and ol' NOYB will find and post
300 contrary opinions.

He's a trip.

--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:14:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats
Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the worst
economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.



NOYB, you'll note that Harry vacated this thread immediately upon being
challenged.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Bullship. You righties *still* think I feel the *need* to somehow engage
in "debate" with you. I've posted a zillion times that I don't give a
damn what you post. I simply find it humorous that so many of you
righties make such an effort to rationalize away Bush and his failures,
lies, misrepresentations and stupidity.

Won't? Can't? Or won't because you can't? Hmmm?

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


You still don't get it, eh?
Too many years in the military.


Let's take a simple example.

If I put up a post that states that George W. Bush is barely literate,
that he won't read much of anything more than a page long, that he
admits that he doesn't really any serious books, or the real newspapers,
and that gets his news handed to him by his staff in tidbits he can
digest, two or three of you righties will then put up *50* posts that
purport to demonstrate I am wrong but in reality simply show that I am
correct.

Read up on Pavlov.

Push the Bush Button and what happens?

All the right-wing simpies start to salivate. Right here on our screens.

Got it now?

You're being worked.

Got it now?

Sheesh.




--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment,
hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out
of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Our current governor in Maryland is a Republican. The two previous elections
for governor were extremely close. The former Speaker of the Maryland House,
a Democrat, was left wondering why he lost his seat in the last election. It
was a coattails effect of ensuring the election of a Republican to the
highest office.

Bert

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

Bert Robbins wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment,
hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out
of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Our current governor in Maryland is a Republican. The two previous elections
for governor were extremely close. The former Speaker of the Maryland House,
a Democrat, was left wondering why he lost his seat in the last election. It
was a coattails effect of ensuring the election of a Republican to the
highest office.

Bert



The current governor of Maryland is very lucky he isn't the target of a
recall campaign, as he is the more arrogant and least competent governor
in the state's history, with the possible exception of Spiro Agnew.
Erlich is a one-termer.


--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:05:30 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:14:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats
Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the worst
economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.



NOYB, you'll note that Harry vacated this thread immediately upon being
challenged.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Bullship. You righties *still* think I feel the *need* to somehow engage
in "debate" with you. I've posted a zillion times that I don't give a
damn what you post. I simply find it humorous that so many of you
righties make such an effort to rationalize away Bush and his failures,
lies, misrepresentations and stupidity.

Won't? Can't? Or won't because you can't? Hmmm?

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


You still don't get it, eh?
Too many years in the military.


Let's take a simple example.

If I put up a post that states that George W. Bush is barely literate,
that he won't read much of anything more than a page long, that he
admits that he doesn't really any serious books, or the real newspapers,
and that gets his news handed to him by his staff in tidbits he can
digest, two or three of you righties will then put up *50* posts that
purport to demonstrate I am wrong but in reality simply show that I am
correct.

Read up on Pavlov.

Push the Bush Button and what happens?

All the right-wing simpies start to salivate. Right here on our screens.

Got it now?

You're being worked.

Got it now?

Sheesh.

typical
John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:56:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment, hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Geez, NOYB, look at the map. I would suggest that there is more of a
correlation to the type of economy, than who controls the legislature.

http://www.lioninc.com/lion/unemployment_by_state1

http://www.statescape.com/Resources/...artysplits.asp


Try to keep in mind that NOYB is a 30-year-old dentist whose bills were
paid by daddy and mommy and who, after being sheltered through high
school and college and dental school, moved south to Florida, and
without ever experiencing any of the downsides of life, or the
struggles, has now emerged as a snotty-nosed Republican conservative who
knows nothing of consequence about how the world works.

He sure tries to "protect" his hero Dubya the Smirking Chimp, though.
Cast aspersions on any aspect of Dubya and ol' NOYB will find and post
300 contrary opinions.

He's a trip.
typical
John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

snip

he is the more arrogant and least competent governor
snip

typical

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

JohnH wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

snip

he is the more arrogant and least competent governor
snip

typical

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


Wow...John's found a mission. Now, as soon as he can get his old
military uniform out of the $1.75 Dry Clean Anything store...watch out!

--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:29:58 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


Our current governor in Maryland is a Republican. The two previous
elections for governor were extremely close. The former Speaker of the
Maryland House, a Democrat, was left wondering why he lost his seat in the
last election. It was a coattails effect of ensuring the election of a
Republican to the highest office.

Sorry, I wasn't aware the Governor was a Republican, but both your houses
are heavily Democrat by an over two to one margin. Still, I believe it's
the state's type of economy rather than the political party in charge that
makes the unemployment rate low. Virginia also has a low rate, and a
Republican legislature. Looking at the map, with few exceptions, it would
appear the more heavily populated and industrial states have a higher
unemployment rate. Some also have a Republican legislature.

http://www.lioninc.com/lion/unemployment_by_state1

http://www.statescape.com/Resources/...artysplits.asp

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:18:14 -0500, JohnH
wrote:

typical
John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

What? You reposting 82 lines just to add a useless one word comment?

bb

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:bs4cc7

....sheltered through high
school and college... without ever experiencing any of the downsides of
life, or the
struggles, has now emerged as a snotty-nosed Republican conservative who
knows nothing of consequence about how the world works.

Ah, here we go with the old "working-class hero" crap. Predictable.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:58:28 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote:


It would be interesting to see anon-partisan scientific study on this
subject. It would appear that conventional wisdom is simply inaccurate
and unfounded. I'd just like to know the documented truth.

Thanks for the work. Interesting stuff. I suspect that if it were
scientifically studied, quite a few of our perceptions of Democrats and
Republicans, both pro and con, would be found to be inaccurate, but then I
guess elections wouldn't be near as much fun.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message

snip
While logically, that seems reasonable, the statistics don't seem to
bear that out. The 13 states with the greatest unemployment do not
stand out as patently unfriendly to business. Similarly, a low
unemployment rate doesn't seem to imply that the state is business
friendly. While businesses clearly indicate that Republican
controlled states are more "friendly," that doesn't seem to have kept
them from laying off workers in amounts equal to "unfriendly" states.

see: http://www.bcentral.com/articles/har...p?format=print

(the numbers in parenthesis, below, indicate the state's ranking).

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Geez, NOYB, look at the map. I would suggest that there is more of a
correlation to the type of economy, than who controls the legislature.

http://www.lioninc.com/lion/unemployment_by_state1

http://www.statescape.com/Resources/...artysplits.asp


Average Unemployment for the US 6%
Average Unemployment for Democratic States 5.463%
Average Unemployment for Republican States 5.085%


I would question all the conclusions just looking at the above statement.
How many states are not Republican or Democrat controlled? With the Dem's
at 5.5% and the Repubs at 5.1% Average cannot be 6%!

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr. Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation. It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

Jim Kelly wrote:

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr. Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation. It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.



No, the moral of this story should be that when a worker's skills are
obsolete, that worker is helped, with a combination of unemployment and
training, to learn enough to do a new job that maintains his standard of
living.

As they do in more progressive countries. Like Norway, Sweden, Finland,
for example.

What we have now is disposability.

--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

Harry,
I do not disagree with your contention that help should be made available in the
form of retraining. However, the worker must recognize the need and be willing to
accept the fact that he or she must make an effort to adapt. Once again, the CTP
revolution did not take the industry by surprise. Many individuals in prepress
did what was necessary to make the transition. It appears Mr. Sells would prefer
to adopt the role of victim and bemoan his plight to the press.

Harry Krause wrote:

Jim Kelly wrote:

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr. Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation. It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out, but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.


No, the moral of this story should be that when a worker's skills are
obsolete, that worker is helped, with a combination of unemployment and
training, to learn enough to do a new job that maintains his standard of
living.

As they do in more progressive countries. Like Norway, Sweden, Finland,
for example.

What we have now is disposability.

--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:38:37 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:




I would question all the conclusions just looking at the above statement.
How many states are not Republican or Democrat controlled?

If you hadn't snipped out the information... it was contained in the
post.

With the Dem's
at 5.5% and the Repubs at 5.1% Average cannot be 6%!




Maybe I was too vague. The only way the 5.5% and 5.1% could be 6% average
is if there were non Dem and Repub controlled states. If there is an error
if this magnitude in the article, all the article is in question.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 06:27:45 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:


Maybe I was too vague. The only way the 5.5% and 5.1% could be 6% average
is if there were non Dem and Repub controlled states. If there is an
error if this magnitude in the article, all the article is in question.

Apples and oranges. The 5.5% and 5.1% are the average of the states
rates. The 6% is the unemployment rate for the entire country. The states
with lower population tend to have lower unemployment. This skews
averaging the states rates lower.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment,
hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell out
of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

No. Texas has an immigration problem.


And Alaska's is 7.3%.

Alaska has too many unfavorable conditions to lure business there.

As for the rest of the states...
Republicans only control the legislature in 40% of the top ten states with
the highest unemployment rate. If you throw out Alaska and Texas for the
aforementioned reasons, then Republicans only control the legislature in 20%
of the states with the highest unemployment rates.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

I've edited Harry's post for accuracy:
NOYB...is a dentist...who...moved south to Florida...and...has emerged as a
Republican conservative who knows...how the world works.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:01:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Wanna know *why* Illinois has such a higher rate of unemployment,
hmmmmmm?
Here's your answer:

Governor=Democrat
Lt. Govenor=Democrat
State House= Controlled by Democrats
State Senate= Controlled by Democrats Mayor of Chicago=Democrat

Ever wonder why the states that are run by Democrats seem to have the
worst economies and worst financial crises? You can't tax the hell
out
of
businesses and then expect them to set up shop in your state.

That must be why Texas' unemployment rate is 6.3%. Oops, Texas is
controlled by Republicans.

And Alaska's is 7.3%. Oops, another Republican state.

And then there is Maryland, 3.8%. Yup, it's a Democratic state.

Our current governor in Maryland is a Republican. The two previous
elections
for governor were extremely close. The former Speaker of the Maryland
House,
a Democrat, was left wondering why he lost his seat in the last election.
It
was a coattails effect of ensuring the election of a Republican to the
highest office.


Bert,
You have a state that: (a) doesn't have an immigration problem, and (b) has
a favorable climate for business. Trying to compare Texas or Alaska to
Maryland is a ridiculous stretch on thunder's part.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

he is the more arrogant and least competent governor
in the state's history

You can always tell Harry is rattled when his grammar skills begin to slip.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message

Average Unemployment for the US 6%
Average Unemployment for Democratic States 5.463%
Average Unemployment for Republican States 5.085%

That statistic presents a pretty strong argument to support my statement.
However, since both Democrat and Republican-controlled states *both* have
unemployment rates under 6%, and the *average* for the nation is higher than
each party's average, that means that the states in which the legislature is
split must be *significantly* higher than 6%. If that's the case, it makes
a pretty strong argument that a two-party system seems to more of a
hindrance than a help when it comes to creating jobs.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim Kelly wrote:

Unfortunately for Mr. Sells, his plight is not the result of the economy
or
politics. If it were, he could expect that his situation might be
temporary.

In the eighties CTP , or computer to plate technology, was in it's
infancy.
At that time, there was still doubts about it's viability. By the early
nineties, the system had proven itself and the larger printers were
adopting
it. Technology improved rapidly and, with accompanying price
reductions,
mid sized printers such as Tempo Graphics in Carol Stream came to
realize
that, in order to remain competitive, they would also have to make the
transition. This of course meant that job opportunities for individuals
with Mr. Sells' skills would become more and more scarce. This is the
entirely the result of technological advancement and it is an ongoing
problem for the displaced worker with the wrong set of skills. Mr.
Sells
could probably find another job in prepress but it would likely be with
a
smaller printer who could not match his previous level of compensation.
It
may also involve relocation. Extending unemployment benefits while he
waits
it out will not resolve his problem, but simply postpone the inevitable.

The moral of the story is that a persons skills are only valuable when
there
is a market for those skills. As technology changes, people must adapt
and
acquire the new skills to compete in the job market. After all, the CTP
revolution did not catch anyone in the graphic arts industry by
surprise, it
has been steadily growing for at least ten years.

Harry Krause wrote:

Out of work and full of worry
Call for renewed federal aid not likely to be heard


By Imran Vittachi
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

December 20, 2003

Cecil Sells considers himself one of the "luckier" ones, even though
he's been jobless since September, laid off from his $50,000-a-year job
as a pre-press operator in Carol Stream.

*Others have had it tougher for a lot longer. In November, the
long-term
unemployed were out of work for an average of more than 20 weeks, the
highest it has been since January 1984, according to the Bureau of
Labor
Statistics.*

Sells, 45, of Sycamore, said he is not encouraged by the Bush
administration's claims that the economy is improving.

"Maybe that's happening in some never-never land," said Sells. "But if
I
don't find a job by March, I may have to sell my house or find other
measures to feed my family."

In March, his weekly state unemployment check of $331, which goes
toward
supporting him and his wife and helps pay on his son's college loans,
will run out.

Sells was among a small group of unemployed Illinois residents who
joined leaders of anti-poverty organizations and Rep. Jan Schakowsky
(D-Ill.), to call on the Bush administration and the
Republican-controlled Congress to renew federal benefits. A lifeline
lasting 13 weeks, the benefits kick in after state support runs out,
but
the package is set to expire Sunday.

"The Grinch is back [this Christmas]," Schakowsky said at the Friday
press conference, which was sponsored by the local chapter of the
AFL-CIO at a church in the Loop.

She said President Bush, together with House Speaker Dennis Hastert and
their fellow Republicans, were now "toasting each other for this
supposed economic recovery."

*"They're ignoring the 8.7 million unemployed workers and those who are
about to lose their benefits," Schakowsky said.*

Last Christmas, Bush extended benefits into the new year. But this time
that appears unlikely; Congress has adjourned for the holidays.

"There seems to be more resistance from the Republican Congress than
last year," said Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Economic Policy
Center, a Washington think tank. "Without presidential intervention,
this time Congress won't renew it."

Despite encouraging reports from the Department of Labor that the
national economy may be pulling out of its morass, and that the
nationwide unemployment rate is finally dipping, the outlook for
recovery in Illinois isn't so bright.

While nationwide unemployment fell in November to 5.9 percent, it stood
at 6.7 percent in Illinois. In some pockets Downstate, the rate ranges
between 7 percent and 10 percent, said Margaret Blackshere, head of the
Chicago AFL-CIO.

Eisenbrey and others say this is no time to terminate the benefits,
known as Temporary Extended Unemployment Compensation. November's
long-term unemployment rate eclipsed the average of 15.4 weeks set in
March 2002, when the benefits took hold.

"The notion that the economy is turning around and that this is no
longer needed is just wrong," said Eisenbrey. He pointed to long-term
unemployment indicators, which in November were higher than in March
2002, when the federal benefits were introduced. "It should at least be
extended for another six months."

The White House, and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
(R-Tenn.) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), did not
respond
Friday to requests for comment.
--
Email sent to is never read.



No, the moral of this story should be that when a worker's skills are
obsolete, that worker is helped, with a combination of unemployment and
training, to learn enough to do a new job that maintains his standard of
living.

As they do in more progressive countries. Like Norway, Sweden, Finland,
for example.

Norway's unemployment is 4.6%, Sweden's is 5.5%, and Finland's is 8.9%. I
think that this shows that there's no common denominator between
unemployment rate, and the job retraining systems that each of those
countries employs.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:31:31 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:




I've edited Harry's post for accuracy:
NOYB...is a dentist...who...moved south to Florida...and...has emerged as a
Republican conservative who knows...how the world works.


Yup, that's what I read!


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

NOYB wrote:

I've edited Harry's post for accuracy:
NOYB...is a dentist...who...moved south to Florida...and...has emerged as a
Republican conservative who knows...how the world works.





What about you?

--
Email sent to is never read.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:40:55 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"Gene Kearns" wrote in message

Average Unemployment for the US 6%
Average Unemployment for Democratic States 5.463% Average Unemployment
for Republican States 5.085%

That statistic presents a pretty strong argument to support my statement.
However, since both Democrat and Republican-controlled states *both* have
unemployment rates under 6%, and the *average* for the nation is higher
than each party's average, that means that the states in which the
legislature is split must be *significantly* higher than 6%. If that's
the case, it makes a pretty strong argument that a two-party system seems
to more of a hindrance than a help when it comes to creating jobs.


I guess it's a good thing you didn't become an engineer ;-) Hint: think
population.

It's STILL the Economy, Stupids...
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:40:55 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"Gene Kearns" wrote in message

Average Unemployment for the US 6%
Average Unemployment for Democratic States 5.463% Average Unemployment
for Republican States 5.085%

That statistic presents a pretty strong argument to support my
statement.
However, since both Democrat and Republican-controlled states *both*
have
unemployment rates under 6%, and the *average* for the nation is higher
than each party's average, that means that the states in which the
legislature is split must be *significantly* higher than 6%. If that's
the case, it makes a pretty strong argument that a two-party system
seems
to more of a hindrance than a help when it comes to creating jobs.


I guess it's a good thing you didn't become an engineer ;-) Hint: think
population.

Gene took the averages from each state according to the party that controls
the legislature, added them, and then divided by the number of states. That
method is useful for giving a general picture as to which party controls
more states with high unemployment. When he gives the "average unemployment
for the US" I assumed he was just adding the unemployment rates for each
state and dividing by 50. If that's the case, then my assertion that the
states with a split legislature must have a very high unemployment rate.

If Gene is using 6% as the national unemployment rate (rather than an
"average" of each individual state's rate), then of course population
matters. Since California and Texas have such large populations, and such
high unemployment rates, they drag the rest of the country's average up.

Part of being an engineer entails looking at something from various
viewpoints.