Outboard Opinions
 

I have finally made a decision and it is between these two motors.

2004 Yamaha VMax 150 HPDI
2004 Yamaha VMax 150 (carubated)

I was wondering if anyone has either of these motors and what they think of
them? Any help and opions would be greatly appreciated.
Chris

I personally would go w/ a Merc EFI.
Having said that - between these two engines I would go w/ the Carb engine
if you plan on keeping it for years to come. The HPDI will get better fuel
economy and as long as it is under an extended warrenty it should be fine.
Once the warrenty expires I would want to get rid of it. Repair bills will
eat you alive on one of these engines if anything happens to it. Also -
resale will be very low because of this.

I like EFI as it has good economy, is reliable, cranks like a car (no
throttle or choke or anything). This is why I say the Merc since Yamaha
does not sell a standard EFI anymore.

--
Tony
My Boats and Cars
http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
"Chris Rennert" wrote in message
...
I have finally made a decision and it is between these two motors.

2004 Yamaha VMax 150 HPDI
2004 Yamaha VMax 150 (carubated)

I was wondering if anyone has either of these motors and what they think
of
them? Any help and opions would be greatly appreciated.
Chris

I was like you, trying to make a decision whether carbs or not.... the
dealer changed my mind. go without the carbs, my motor cranks over the
very first time, every time. carbs cannot do that.
plus with the compressor, and fuel injection, the motor is very fast, go
with optimax, from mercury.
The biggest, nationwide dealerships, easy to get parts, even if your motor
is 40 yrs old.
you will not find that with jap motors.
"Chris Rennert" wrote in message
...
I have finally made a decision and it is between these two motors.

2004 Yamaha VMax 150 HPDI
2004 Yamaha VMax 150 (carubated)

I was wondering if anyone has either of these motors and what they think
of
them? Any help and opions would be greatly appreciated.
Chris

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:27:08 GMT, "Chris Rennert"
wrote:

I have finally made a decision and it is between these two motors.

2004 Yamaha VMax 150 HPDI
2004 Yamaha VMax 150 (carubated)

I was wondering if anyone has either of these motors and what they think of
them? Any help and opions would be greatly appreciated.

What to do, what to do...

I'm assuming that these are your only choices and that other
manufacturers are out of the game - as in Johnson/Evinrude or Mercury.

With the carbed motor, you will lose efficiency. However, they are
easier to fix, repairs aren't all that expensive and it will last a
good long time.

On the HPDI, you will gain in efficiency, but with increased use of
technology, you increase the risk of expensive failure. I speak from
experience here. Still, the increased efficiency makes up for some of
that and I would take the DI engine over the carbed engine.

My problem with Yamaha is that they are clearly dumping their products
on the US market and you have to wonder just how good they are under
those conditions. I do know that in these parts (eastern seaboard/NE)
Yamaha parts are hard to get. I know it's a distribution problem, but
still.

Hope that helped.

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

"tony thomas" wrote in message
news:Zjm9d.208804$D%.67774@attbi_s51...
I personally would go w/ a Merc EFI.
Having said that - between these two engines I would go w/ the Carb engine
if you plan on keeping it for years to come. The HPDI will get better
fuel economy and as long as it is under an extended warrenty it should be
fine. Once the warrenty expires I would want to get rid of it. Repair
bills will eat you alive on one of these engines if anything happens to
it. Also - resale will be very low because of this.


Well, after just having had to replace a full set of carburetors on a pair
of Mercury Four Stroke outboards I can assure you that having carburetors is
not a guarantee of trouble free boating. These motors only had 16 hours on
them, and were supposedly still under warantee, but it seems that Mercury
considers gasoline to be a contaminate and thus they don't cover their carbs
fouling up and becoming useless. They also seem to have a problem with
supply, because so many people are replacing them, that you may have to wait
months to get replacement carburetors.

These Mercury outboards I have are pieces of @#$% ! \

I am certainly never going to buy another carbureted Mercury motor, and I
may never buy Mercury again period!

Rod McInnis

These motors only had 16 hours on
them, and were supposedly still under warantee, but it seems that Mercury
considers gasoline to be a contaminate and thus they don't cover their carbs
fouling up and becoming useless.

If I was a poker player, I'd call your bluff. 16 hours? Gas a contaminate
(what are ya supposed to run 'em on)? Instead, since I like to fish, I'll
call this a troll, and leave it alone...sheez.

--Mike

"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"tony thomas" wrote in message
news:Zjm9d.208804$D%.67774@attbi_s51...
I personally would go w/ a Merc EFI.
Having said that - between these two engines I would go w/ the Carb
engine if you plan on keeping it for years to come. The HPDI will get
better fuel economy and as long as it is under an extended warrenty it
should be fine. Once the warrenty expires I would want to get rid of it.
Repair bills will eat you alive on one of these engines if anything
happens to it. Also - resale will be very low because of this.


Well, after just having had to replace a full set of carburetors on a pair
of Mercury Four Stroke outboards I can assure you that having carburetors
is not a guarantee of trouble free boating. These motors only had 16
hours on them, and were supposedly still under warantee, but it seems that
Mercury considers gasoline to be a contaminate and thus they don't cover
their carbs fouling up and becoming useless. They also seem to have a
problem with supply, because so many people are replacing them, that you
may have to wait months to get replacement carburetors.

These Mercury outboards I have are pieces of @#$% ! \

I am certainly never going to buy another carbureted Mercury motor, and I
may never buy Mercury again period!

Rod McInnis

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "mgg" wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

If I was a poker player, I'd call your bluff. 16 hours? Gas a contaminate
(what are ya supposed to run 'em on)? Instead, since I like to fish, I'll
call this a troll, and leave it alone...sheez.

I don't know about the carb thing because I have never had that happen
and I've never heard of such.

However, I can speak to Mercury warranty policies and they frankly
suck. I have a 67# thrust MotorGuide trolling motor on my Ranger
(Great White) and the control potentiometer caught fire. Obviously,
the trolling mtor is now junk as the lower unit also took a huge hit
internally and burned out at the same time. It was purchased new two
years ago and this happened about a month before the warranty expired
(this summer in fact).

Mercury said in refusing the warranty claim: "The motor must have been
submerged at some point causing corrosion and we're not responsible
for those kind of owner/operator errors".

That's an exact quote from a letter received from Mercury concerning
this warranty claim. In short, they don't want to have to replace my
trolling motor.

I'm still working on it and the prospects are excellant. However, I
would be willing to believe anything about Mercury warranty practices
at this point.

Oh, and just for the record, I wouldn't buy a Mercury engine if you
paid me. Not only because of this problem, but when you shift gears,
there is so much gear lash in the lower unit that it sounds like a
head on collision between two eighteen wheelers doing a buck twenty
five.

Ok - that's hyperbole. I meant to say eighty five.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

rmcinnis wrote:


These Mercury outboards I have are pieces of @#$% ! \

I am certainly never going to buy another carbureted Mercury motor, and I
may never buy Mercury again period!

Rod McInnis



To add my little story about Mercury outboards:

I purchased a new Whaler Dauntless equipped with a 115 hp carbureted
Mercury engine in 2001. This engine model is the type that runs on 2
cylinders up to about 1800 RPM, then cuts in the other 2 cylinders.

After about a month of occasional use the engine began dripping a half a
cup or so of 2 cycle oil whenever the engine was tilted up when not in
use. The oil would collect in the Whaler's engine well, then run out the
drains causing a very noticeable oil slick at the marina. (Boat was in a
slip)

At first I thought the oil tank (located on the side of the engine,
under the cowling) was leaking, but determined that it was not. I
finally realized the foam insulation inside the cowling was saturated
with oil. It seems that when running on 2 cylinders oil is still
injected into the non-firing cylinders (makes sense) but those
carburetors quickly become loaded with oil that leaks out whenever you
fully tilt the engine up.

Anyway, I called the dealer for a fix and was told "It's the nature of
the beast". Not believing that, I called two authorized Mercury sales
and service centers and was told the same thing - there is nothing that
can be done to fix it. The only way to avoid producing an oil slick was
to leave the engine down all the time.

My new Scout is equipped with a Yamaha 200 hp four stroke. Much nicer
engine.

Eisboch

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:25:06 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:

rmcinnis wrote:


These Mercury outboards I have are pieces of @#$% ! \

I am certainly never going to buy another carbureted Mercury motor, and I
may never buy Mercury again period!

Rod McInnis



To add my little story about Mercury outboards:

I purchased a new Whaler Dauntless equipped with a 115 hp carbureted
Mercury engine in 2001. This engine model is the type that runs on 2
cylinders up to about 1800 RPM, then cuts in the other 2 cylinders.

After about a month of occasional use the engine began dripping a half a
cup or so of 2 cycle oil whenever the engine was tilted up when not in
use. The oil would collect in the Whaler's engine well, then run out the
drains causing a very noticeable oil slick at the marina. (Boat was in a
slip)

At first I thought the oil tank (located on the side of the engine,
under the cowling) was leaking, but determined that it was not. I
finally realized the foam insulation inside the cowling was saturated
with oil. It seems that when running on 2 cylinders oil is still
injected into the non-firing cylinders (makes sense) but those
carburetors quickly become loaded with oil that leaks out whenever you
fully tilt the engine up.

Anyway, I called the dealer for a fix and was told "It's the nature of
the beast". Not believing that, I called two authorized Mercury sales
and service centers and was told the same thing - there is nothing that
can be done to fix it. The only way to avoid producing an oil slick was
to leave the engine down all the time.

My new Scout is equipped with a Yamaha 200 hp four stroke. Much nicer
engine.

The Evinrude 200 FICHT on my Ranger does that also, but not to that
extent. The left over oil leaks out of the air baffle.

I put an oil absorbant pad in the pan and change it twice a year.
Problem solved.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:01:44 GMT, "tony thomas"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

As for the trolling motor. Mercury listens to their dealers. If the dealer
had done his job properly by stating the problem - Merc would have covered
it. The dealer should easily be able to tell if the motor had been under
water or not.

Brand loyalty is a good thing Tony, and I will gladly admit that it
was a late post and I was feeling tetchy because of a lack of sleep
from a sore back and leg, but the point stays the same - Mercury is
stalling because they don't want to replace the motor because
admitting it means that it's a stupid and lousy design.

I took the time to point out the design flaws when I made the claim to
the dealer including, but not limited to, uninsulated pot tap and
positive/negative connectors, positive connection on top of the brace
of potentiometer taps including the 24 V dc negative lead, a complete
lack of positive lock connections anywhere on the potentiometer wiring
and a complete lack of proper sealing by which water could have been
kept out of the motor head if, by any chance, it had gone underwater
and finally, I gave them a copy of a national ad from "Sal****er
Magazine" and "Florida Sportsman" in which they tout the motor as
being "water resistant".

Secondly, to assume that a dealer didn't do the job properly, is
insulting. I've dealt with this dealership for a long time with more
than one boat and have received nothing but excellant service. They
went to bat for me on a FICHT that I had some problems with and about
ten years ago when I had a Fisher BassHawk with a 40 hp Merc out of
warranty by two months, they talked Mercury into covering the cost of
a new powerhead which failed - I paid the labor. Do you really think
that a dealer who has had a customer for more than twenty years, who
has spent well in excess of $100,000 with them over time for boats,
engines, service, winterizing, parts, etc., won't do what they can to
make it right?

Third, even if I had put the thing underwater at some time, it would
have had to stay there for a long period of time to allow sufficient
moisture to enter the control head to corrode the connectors. At that
point, the boat would have to had sunk. Which it hasn't.

One item of note was that there was no corrosion evident on any of the
other connectors what survived the fire. So much for Mercury's
contention.

Mercury's current warranty department is less than accomodating based
on this experience. And because of that, and anecdotal evidence from
other Mercury owners in my area who have had different warranty
problems, I won't own one again.

And I apologize for the poorly worded and over the top post last
evening.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

"tony thomas" wrote in message
news:s3T9d.217234$D%.129061@attbi_s51...
My comments:
As for the carbs, fuel gelling in the carbs is not covered by any
warrenty. If you only had 16 hours on it, then you were not using it very
much and that was the problem. However, there is no reason to replace the
carbs. Just clean them and they should have been fine. Sounds like the
dealer does not know how to clean carbs.


Having fuel "gel" or otherwise go bad in the carb is not unusual. What I
would consider a reasonable designed carburetor would not be damaged by
this, but you would need to clean it out.

In my case the carburetors were damaged. I can imagin that it was the gas
going bad that contributed to it, but I stand by my position that the
carburetors should not have been damaged.

When the service shop told me that the carburetors needed to be replaced I
didn't beleive it. I had them try rebuilding a set anyway. It didn't help.
I talked to the Mercury Customer service people directly. They basically
said that the carburetors were not rebuildable! They would sell a gasket
kit to an authorized service center and that is about it. They rattled off
some lame excuse about EPA requirements. I can belive that EPA requirements
put a burden on the carburetor design, but it has to be a design decision on
Mercury parts to solf the EPA problems by making carburetors that can't be
properly rebuilt.

I am sure that the fact that the carbs can't be rebuilt is the reason that
the replacement carburetors were in short supply. One of the customer
service respresentative told me that they had had an "unexpectedly high
demand" for the carburetors.

Bottom line: Mecury designed their carburetors using a very low grade
aluminum castings and low grade brass inserts. I guess they hadn't
considered the possibility that the engines would sit all winter without
being used.


Rod McInnis

Eisboch wrote:
rmcinnis wrote:


These Mercury outboards I have are pieces of @#$% ! \

I am certainly never going to buy another carbureted Mercury motor,
and I may never buy Mercury again period!

Rod McInnis


To add my little story about Mercury outboards:

I purchased a new Whaler Dauntless equipped with a 115 hp carbureted
Mercury engine in 2001. This engine model is the type that runs on 2
cylinders up to about 1800 RPM, then cuts in the other 2 cylinders.

After about a month of occasional use the engine began dripping a half a
cup or so of 2 cycle oil whenever the engine was tilted up when not in
use. The oil would collect in the Whaler's engine well, then run out the
drains causing a very noticeable oil slick at the marina. (Boat was in a
slip)

At first I thought the oil tank (located on the side of the engine,
under the cowling) was leaking, but determined that it was not. I
finally realized the foam insulation inside the cowling was saturated
with oil. It seems that when running on 2 cylinders oil is still
injected into the non-firing cylinders (makes sense) but those
carburetors quickly become loaded with oil that leaks out whenever you
fully tilt the engine up.

Anyway, I called the dealer for a fix and was told "It's the nature of
the beast". Not believing that, I called two authorized Mercury sales
and service centers and was told the same thing - there is nothing that
can be done to fix it. The only way to avoid producing an oil slick was
to leave the engine down all the time.

My new Scout is equipped with a Yamaha 200 hp four stroke. Much nicer
engine.

Eisboch

Sad story but it's good to know you were listening in those days &
didn't fall for the Ficht/Opti BS:-) & even now didn't get the DFI
yamaha, well done. It's aways easy for the spriuker dealers to say all
sorts of things when it's other peoples' money.

Sorry I'm a bit over the top this morning, the conservatives (we call
ours "liberal/national coalition" just to confuse everybody:-)) have won
again, along with the US free trade agreement we're lookin' good.

K

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:25:06 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:


rmcinnis wrote:


These Mercury outboards I have are pieces of @#$% ! \

I am certainly never going to buy another carbureted Mercury motor, and I
may never buy Mercury again period!

Rod McInnis



To add my little story about Mercury outboards:

I purchased a new Whaler Dauntless equipped with a 115 hp carbureted
Mercury engine in 2001. This engine model is the type that runs on 2
cylinders up to about 1800 RPM, then cuts in the other 2 cylinders.

After about a month of occasional use the engine began dripping a half a
cup or so of 2 cycle oil whenever the engine was tilted up when not in
use. The oil would collect in the Whaler's engine well, then run out the
drains causing a very noticeable oil slick at the marina. (Boat was in a
slip)

At first I thought the oil tank (located on the side of the engine,
under the cowling) was leaking, but determined that it was not. I
finally realized the foam insulation inside the cowling was saturated
with oil. It seems that when running on 2 cylinders oil is still
injected into the non-firing cylinders (makes sense) but those
carburetors quickly become loaded with oil that leaks out whenever you
fully tilt the engine up.

Anyway, I called the dealer for a fix and was told "It's the nature of
the beast". Not believing that, I called two authorized Mercury sales
and service centers and was told the same thing - there is nothing that
can be done to fix it. The only way to avoid producing an oil slick was
to leave the engine down all the time.

My new Scout is equipped with a Yamaha 200 hp four stroke. Much nicer
engine.


The Evinrude 200 FICHT on my Ranger does that also, but not to that
extent. The left over oil leaks out of the air baffle.

I put an oil absorbant pad in the pan and change it twice a year.
Problem solved.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

Gee Tom it's a bad design!!! just a total disaster from 97 till it's
latest try with a lame name change.

Imagine any other consumer item that costs even say $100 which had a
chronic oil leak?? but hooly dooly these cost more, much more, than a
car!!! You'd think they'd at least they could afford to give you a
warranty period supply of "absorbent" pads ....... loony tune short life
spark plugs??........."special" dealer only oil??? ............power
heads when the detonation kills them:-)

They're a monstrous consumer ripoff & they have the neck to carry
multiple serious design flaws which have yet to be even admitted to.

Don't give them any more of "your" money, but of course it is your
money so.........

K

"Chris Rennert" wrote in message ...
I have finally made a decision and it is between these two motors.

2004 Yamaha VMax 150 HPDI
2004 Yamaha VMax 150 (carubated)

I was wondering if anyone has either of these motors and what they think of
them? Any help and opions would be greatly appreciated.
Chris

hey chris, good choice on brand. you should consider the 150 4stroke
yamaha also. it is actually lighter then the 150 2stroke.
some falsehoods mentione. the repair costs on a 2k4 efi vs carb will
be almost identical for catastrophic failure.
research a little further into the "actual" manufacturer of the brand.
there is a lot of "you scratch my back ill scatch yours" going on atm
in the marine engine world and what you see is not what you get. good
luck

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:19:54 +1000, "K. Smith"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Gee Tom it's a bad design!!! just a total disaster from 97 till it's
latest try with a lame name change.

Karen, I have great respect for your opinion and knowledge.

Don't spoil it by harping on a subject. I am happy with my FICHTS, I
don't care about your opinion on THIS subject, so just drop it.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004