Cape Craft and/or Yamaha OB Experience?
 

I'm looking at my first non-sail boat purchase. What seems to be most
likely is a 16 or 17' Cape Craft with a 50/90 hp Yamaha respectively.
Can anyone possibly offer any insight, feedback on this please?

Thanks in advance. Don

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:00:05 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking at my first non-sail boat purchase. What seems to be most
likely is a 16 or 17' Cape Craft with a 50/90 hp Yamaha respectively.
Can anyone possibly offer any insight, feedback on this please?

Thanks in advance. Don

I assume that we're talking about this boat:

http://capecraftfishingboats.com/cc_...cfm?Model=17CC

Ok, here's the skinny. What you are basically buying is a center
console bay boat. It's not described that way, but that is exactly
what it is.

Don't expect this to ride nicely in a light/medium chop and forget
about any waves. The boat won't sink, but you will get bounced around
and very wet. These boats are light with a thin draft to get into the
flats and shallow inlets/rivers and aren't really designed for any
heavy weather conditions. Don't expect to back down on a big fish
either - you will have more water in the boat than out.

These boats can also be difficult to trim to keep the nose high enough
to keep the spray off and/or out. Even trim tabs don't work.

If you are going to do a T-top, get the manufacturer's T-top. On a
boat this small, you really shouldn't, but do youself the favour if
you do.

If you plan to do anything other than fishing, get a different type or
bigger boat. These type of boats are designed for light tackle
fishing which translates into relatively protected bays and
river/inlet systems. This does not mean that you can't use the boat
out in the open on good days, but keep a weather eye out and if the
wind starts to rise, get the hence to the launch ramp.

With respect to fishability, if that's what you are going to do the
most, they are all pretty much the same at this size. This is where
the old adage of center console is a center console is a.....comes in.
They all pretty much fish the same.

I have a lot of experience with these type of boats and every one that
I've ever tested, driven, owned have had all these same problems to
varying degrees.

Including my 20 foot Ranger.

As to the engine, it's a Yamaha - eh. I'm pretty sure it's not direct
injected, so your real decision isn't horsepower, but if you can live
with a carburated engine rather than the more costly, but way more
economical, direct injected engine. The 90 will push this boat around
well enough.

As to Yamaha, I wouldn't own one. It's a good engine, but parts,
around here anyway, are a problem. If you can, try to upgrade the
fuel system on the engine at the very least if you can't switch to
Mercury or Johnson/Evinrude.

Good luck.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:25:31 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:00:05 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking at my first non-sail boat purchase. What seems to be most
likely is a 16 or 17' Cape Craft with a 50/90 hp Yamaha respectively.
Can anyone possibly offer any insight, feedback on this please?

Thanks in advance. Don

I assume that we're talking about this boat:

http://capecraftfishingboats.com/cc_...cfm?Model=17CC

Ok, here's the skinny. What you are basically buying is a center
console bay boat. It's not described that way, but that is exactly
what it is.

Don't expect this to ride nicely in a light/medium chop and forget
about any waves. The boat won't sink, but you will get bounced around
and very wet. These boats are light with a thin draft to get into the
flats and shallow inlets/rivers and aren't really designed for any
heavy weather conditions. Don't expect to back down on a big fish
either - you will have more water in the boat than out.

These boats can also be difficult to trim to keep the nose high enough
to keep the spray off and/or out. Even trim tabs don't work.

If you are going to do a T-top, get the manufacturer's T-top. On a
boat this small, you really shouldn't, but do youself the favour if
you do.

If you plan to do anything other than fishing, get a different type or
bigger boat. These type of boats are designed for light tackle
fishing which translates into relatively protected bays and
river/inlet systems. This does not mean that you can't use the boat
out in the open on good days, but keep a weather eye out and if the
wind starts to rise, get the hence to the launch ramp.

With respect to fishability, if that's what you are going to do the
most, they are all pretty much the same at this size. This is where
the old adage of center console is a center console is a.....comes in.
They all pretty much fish the same.

I have a lot of experience with these type of boats and every one that
I've ever tested, driven, owned have had all these same problems to
varying degrees.

Including my 20 foot Ranger.

As to the engine, it's a Yamaha - eh. I'm pretty sure it's not direct
injected, so your real decision isn't horsepower, but if you can live
with a carburated engine rather than the more costly, but way more
economical, direct injected engine. The 90 will push this boat around
well enough.

As to Yamaha, I wouldn't own one. It's a good engine, but parts,
around here anyway, are a problem. If you can, try to upgrade the
fuel system on the engine at the very least if you can't switch to
Mercury or Johnson/Evinrude.

Good luck.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717



Actually, the boat YOU are describing is this one:

http://capecraftfishingboats.com/cc_...fm?Model=17BAY

Capecraft makes 2 lines of center console boats.
One is the CC line which have deep vees (check the deadrise figures)
for rough conditions.
The other is the BAY line which are shallow draft boats designed for
the calmer type fishing areas as you describe.

I was replacing a 21' I/O runabout with a 20 degree deadrise that I
have had for about 9 years and spent a LOT of time crusing the bay in
that boat and was always impressed with how well it handled the rough
bay and how safe I felt in it.
Nothing is more scarey than getting caught in a storm on the
chesapake with 6-8 foot seas and the best you can do is ride it out
by keeping the bow into the wind/waves.

So when I decided I wanted a low maintenance boat , I turned to the
Center Console boats with Outboards and wanted to find one that was
up to the task of the 21' bow rider I was replacing.
I spent a lot of time researching and water testing boats this fall
in the Chesapeak Bay which gave me a chance to see how several Center
Console boats with a deep V handled the rough water.


My budget was to keep the boat under $27,000 so I had no problem with
choices to try and I watyer tested 5 boats.

Long story short, I decided on the Cape Craft 20CC with a Yamaha four
stroke 150 hp outboard

Granted, it is bigger than the 17CC that the poster asked about but I
had to speak up to correct a few comments you made.

I already mentioned the 2 lines of boats but still I would not be
comfortable in the bay in a 17 footer - deep V or not. Step up just a
few feet and the boat gets a LOT bigger in all dimensions.

As far as your comments about Yamaha, I disagree (at least in my area
- Annapolis). Most of the newer outboard boats that you see around
here have Yamaha or Honda 4 strokes and getting parts/service is a
non-issue. We both know that parts and service are as important as
the boat you buy and I researched that as well.

You notice how the Cape Craft website shows Merc's on the back?
The 2 Cape Craft dealers that I visited have them all outfitted with
Yamaha or Honda's because the dealer's told me that is what folks
want.

Not trying to start an argument but just wanted to point out the 2
different lines of Cape Craft boats and give a differing opinion in
the Outboard.

Joe

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:49:49 -0500, Joe wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:25:31 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:00:05 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking at my first non-sail boat purchase. What seems to be most
likely is a 16 or 17' Cape Craft with a 50/90 hp Yamaha respectively.
Can anyone possibly offer any insight, feedback on this please?

Thanks in advance. Don

I assume that we're talking about this boat:

http://capecraftfishingboats.com/cc_...cfm?Model=17CC

~~ snippage ~~

Actually, the boat YOU are describing is this one:

http://capecraftfishingboats.com/cc_...fm?Model=17BAY

Capecraft makes 2 lines of center console boats.
One is the CC line which have deep vees (check the deadrise figures)
for rough conditions.
The other is the BAY line which are shallow draft boats designed for
the calmer type fishing areas as you describe.

My point was, and still is, that on a 17 foot boat, even with 18
degrees of deadrise, it's still a bay boat. If you compare the
interiors of each, notice that they are almost identical with minor
differences in the tub and gunnel width. The other specs are
virtually identical. And probably marketing specs to differentiate
the two. :)

I was replacing a 21' I/O runabout with a 20 degree deadrise that I
have had for about 9 years and spent a LOT of time crusing the bay in
that boat and was always impressed with how well it handled the rough
bay and how safe I felt in it.
Nothing is more scarey than getting caught in a storm on the
chesapake with 6-8 foot seas and the best you can do is ride it out
by keeping the bow into the wind/waves.

So when I decided I wanted a low maintenance boat , I turned to the
Center Console boats with Outboards and wanted to find one that was
up to the task of the 21' bow rider I was replacing.
I spent a lot of time researching and water testing boats this fall
in the Chesapeak Bay which gave me a chance to see how several Center
Console boats with a deep V handled the rough water.


My budget was to keep the boat under $27,000 so I had no problem with
choices to try and I watyer tested 5 boats.

Long story short, I decided on the Cape Craft 20CC with a Yamaha four
stroke 150 hp outboard

Very nice. And that's not a bay boat. :) Although I would have gone
with a little more horsepower.

Granted, it is bigger than the 17CC that the poster asked about but I
had to speak up to correct a few comments you made.

I already mentioned the 2 lines of boats but still I would not be
comfortable in the bay in a 17 footer - deep V or not. Step up just a
few feet and the boat gets a LOT bigger in all dimensions.

Which was my point to begin with.

As far as your comments about Yamaha, I disagree (at least in my area
- Annapolis). Most of the newer outboard boats that you see around
here have Yamaha or Honda 4 strokes and getting parts/service is a
non-issue. We both know that parts and service are as important as
the boat you buy and I researched that as well.

Good luck with that. I can introduce you to three Yamaha owners, one
a four stroke owner as it happens, who have been waiting for parts for
over two months - one for over ninety days.

You notice how the Cape Craft website shows Merc's on the back?
The 2 Cape Craft dealers that I visited have them all outfitted with
Yamaha or Honda's because the dealer's told me that is what folks
want.

Look, if you want to take one thing away with you from this discussion
it's this. Yamaha and Suzuki have been dumping their products for the
past two or three years. Mercury and Bombardier are in the process of
initiating a trade complaint about product dumping and I believe that
Mercury has won an important initial legal ruling on the subject. The
reason you are seeing all these Yamaha's are that they are cheaper to
purchase than Merc and the profit margin is slightly higher. It has
nothing to do with customer's wanting Yamahas. Or maybe it might, but
it's not because of anything more than price. That and the factory
gets a healthy cut to pre-rig the boats that way. Even Ranger isn't
immune to this and they are probably one domestic producer who is
Mercury centric (if that makes any sense).

With Hondas it's all in the name. And this is a motor that I would be
scared of personally. I have this on second hand information, but
apparently their service manuals are horrific and they don't have
factory service training as such their reasoning being that Hondas
don't break down. As I said, that's second hand, but it's from
somebody I trust. I could be wrong.

Not trying to start an argument but just wanted to point out the 2
different lines of Cape Craft boats and give a differing opinion in
the Outboard.

Fair enough. Just remember that we were talking about a 17 foot boat
versus a 20/21 foot boat.

BIG difference. :)

Enjoy your new boat.

Live long and prosper,

Tom

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:29:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:





Look, if you want to take one thing away with you from this discussion
it's this. Yamaha and Suzuki have been dumping their products for the
past two or three years. Mercury and Bombardier are in the process of
initiating a trade complaint about product dumping and I believe that
Mercury has won an important initial legal ruling on the subject. The
reason you are seeing all these Yamaha's are that they are cheaper to
purchase than Merc and the profit margin is slightly higher. It has
nothing to do with customer's wanting Yamahas. Or maybe it might, but
it's not because of anything more than price. That and the factory
gets a healthy cut to pre-rig the boats that way. Even Ranger isn't
immune to this and they are probably one domestic producer who is
Mercury centric (if that makes any sense).

Iam sure the original poster hs bought what he is going to buy by now
and we both do agree that a 17' boat does not belong on any rough body
of water.

I do not want to leave your comments about the outboards just floating
out there because folks read these posts (like me) looking for data
and I have to speak up to correct you.


Final word on this motor subject:)

Here are some facts that YOU need to take away from this discussion.

1) In my test rides of various Center Console boats, I got to try the
Yamaha,Merc and Honda. and I prefered the quietness and the hole shot
power of the Yamaha.
They both have a 3 year Warranty so they are equal in that department.

2) I am pushing 50 and have been hearing the Evinrude is better than
Mercury and vice versa argument for YEARS. The arguments merely got
longer when Honda and Yamaha snuck in the past few years with a
superior product so there are now 4 to argue about.
Talking about Outboards is just like politics. You like Merc's and I
don't and we can both come up with 'facts' to back up our point of
view but no one ever wins.

3) Dumping and priced less?
Someone has been reading from the proven useless DNC's book of
twisted facts.

Check out these prices for the 2 contenders:

90 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $6,999
90 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $6,999

115 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $7,999
115 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $7,499

150 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $10,499
150 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $10,500

225 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $14,999
225 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $13,999

I hardly call that price dumping -
Heck, the Yamahas cost more!

(If you ignore the $1 difference on the 150)

4) Yamaha is crying foul because they rested on their laurels and let
Honda and Yamaha sneak by them technologically. In the big HP motors
(200) they very recently came up with a real contender but the price
dumping suit is a smoke screen.

5) Finally,in regards to your comment about my getting a bigger motor,
It shows how little you know about the Yamaha F150 (which is only in
it's second year of production so I can forgive you for knowing about
it's design features). It is a DOHC 4 cylinder ,16 valve engine but
with the displacement of their 6 cylinder 2 stroke, That makes for
quite a weight reduction.
The Yamaha 150 got me to 49 MPH at 6000 RPM in a flash (we had to
hang on when I floored it as it packs a punch) and that is PLENTY
fast enough for me. Recall what I said - I researched and water tested
a lot of boats. I am the 30MPH kind of person who believes in big
motors for those few times when you need the torque - like in storms.

Regards,
Joe

Yamaha manufactures the powerheads for the Mercury 4 stroke 90, 115, and 150.
I'm not sure about the 6 cylinder motors.

Joe wrote:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:29:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:





Look, if you want to take one thing away with you from this discussion
it's this. Yamaha and Suzuki have been dumping their products for the
past two or three years. Mercury and Bombardier are in the process of
initiating a trade complaint about product dumping and I believe that
Mercury has won an important initial legal ruling on the subject. The
reason you are seeing all these Yamaha's are that they are cheaper to
purchase than Merc and the profit margin is slightly higher. It has
nothing to do with customer's wanting Yamahas. Or maybe it might, but
it's not because of anything more than price. That and the factory
gets a healthy cut to pre-rig the boats that way. Even Ranger isn't
immune to this and they are probably one domestic producer who is
Mercury centric (if that makes any sense).


Iam sure the original poster hs bought what he is going to buy by now
and we both do agree that a 17' boat does not belong on any rough body
of water.

I do not want to leave your comments about the outboards just floating
out there because folks read these posts (like me) looking for data
and I have to speak up to correct you.


Final word on this motor subject:)

Here are some facts that YOU need to take away from this discussion.

1) In my test rides of various Center Console boats, I got to try the
Yamaha,Merc and Honda. and I prefered the quietness and the hole shot
power of the Yamaha.
They both have a 3 year Warranty so they are equal in that department.

2) I am pushing 50 and have been hearing the Evinrude is better than
Mercury and vice versa argument for YEARS. The arguments merely got
longer when Honda and Yamaha snuck in the past few years with a
superior product so there are now 4 to argue about.
Talking about Outboards is just like politics. You like Merc's and I
don't and we can both come up with 'facts' to back up our point of
view but no one ever wins.

3) Dumping and priced less?
Someone has been reading from the proven useless DNC's book of
twisted facts.

Check out these prices for the 2 contenders:

90 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $6,999
90 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $6,999

115 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $7,999
115 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $7,499

150 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $10,499
150 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $10,500

225 HP 4-STROKE YAMAHA $14,999
225 HP 4-STROKE MERCURY $13,999

I hardly call that price dumping -
Heck, the Yamahas cost more!

(If you ignore the $1 difference on the 150)

4) Yamaha is crying foul because they rested on their laurels and let
Honda and Yamaha sneak by them technologically. In the big HP motors
(200) they very recently came up with a real contender but the price
dumping suit is a smoke screen.

5) Finally,in regards to your comment about my getting a bigger motor,
It shows how little you know about the Yamaha F150 (which is only in
it's second year of production so I can forgive you for knowing about
it's design features). It is a DOHC 4 cylinder ,16 valve engine but
with the displacement of their 6 cylinder 2 stroke, That makes for
quite a weight reduction.
The Yamaha 150 got me to 49 MPH at 6000 RPM in a flash (we had to
hang on when I floored it as it packs a punch) and that is PLENTY
fast enough for me. Recall what I said - I researched and water tested
a lot of boats. I am the 30MPH kind of person who believes in big
motors for those few times when you need the torque - like in storms.

Regards,
Joe

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:06:11 -0500, Joe wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:29:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Yep - clearly you know all about it.

Enjoy your boat.

Later,

Tom