On Topic: The pain of boat survey...
 

Here's an object lesson for you boys and girls entering into the used
boat market.

I have been looking for a Pursuit/Topaz style boat to fill a gap
between the 20 foot Ranger Bay Boat and the 32 foot Contender (it's a
long story). I finally found one that I was very interested in. I
took a ride last weekend to look at it and, due to the fact that I am
reasonably well aquainted with boats and how they are built, I over
estimated my own ability to find problems. Hubris, thy name is me.

I looked it over, with what I thought was a reasonable eye to problems
like stringers, etc and didn't think there were any major issues. I
put in an offer which was accepted and I arranged with a surveyor of
some experience to look at the boat and sea trial it.

Well, let's just say that about three minutes into the survey, he
found one bad prop, the other was marginal, the rudders were pigeon
toed, there were holes where the transducers and speedo were removed,
there were stress cracks along the bottom chines, the swim platform
bracket was fubar. Once he got into the boat he discovered that the
stringers were bad, there was hardware missing from the rudder
assembly, the floor had been replaced once (probably to accomodate a
new gas tank) and we stopped right there.

At least I found the blowen out muffler, the rotten bulkhead plywood
and the soft spots in the floor. ;)

Oh well, it was worth the money I paid to at least learn a lesson in
how it's done when it's done right. Worth every penny.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Here's an object lesson for you boys and girls entering into the used
boat market.

I have been looking for a Pursuit/Topaz style boat to fill a gap
between the 20 foot Ranger Bay Boat and the 32 foot Contender (it's a
long story). I finally found one that I was very interested in. I
took a ride last weekend to look at it and, due to the fact that I am
reasonably well aquainted with boats and how they are built, I over
estimated my own ability to find problems. Hubris, thy name is me.

I looked it over, with what I thought was a reasonable eye to problems
like stringers, etc and didn't think there were any major issues. I
put in an offer which was accepted and I arranged with a surveyor of
some experience to look at the boat and sea trial it.

Well, let's just say that about three minutes into the survey, he
found one bad prop, the other was marginal, the rudders were pigeon
toed, there were holes where the transducers and speedo were removed,
there were stress cracks along the bottom chines, the swim platform
bracket was fubar. Once he got into the boat he discovered that the
stringers were bad, there was hardware missing from the rudder
assembly, the floor had been replaced once (probably to accomodate a
new gas tank) and we stopped right there.

At least I found the blowen out muffler, the rotten bulkhead plywood
and the soft spots in the floor. ;)

Oh well, it was worth the money I paid to at least learn a lesson in
how it's done when it's done right. Worth every penny.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717




Thanks for the post. You know, a lot of wary boat buyers have a surveyor
examine a brand new boat they are considering, so they can present the
manufacturer or dealer with a list of items that need attention before
delivery is taken.

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats! It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a boat and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's hard
earned cash.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Here's an object lesson for you boys and girls entering into the used
boat market.

I have been looking for a Pursuit/Topaz style boat to fill a gap
between the 20 foot Ranger Bay Boat and the 32 foot Contender (it's a
long story). I finally found one that I was very interested in. I
took a ride last weekend to look at it and, due to the fact that I am
reasonably well aquainted with boats and how they are built, I over
estimated my own ability to find problems. Hubris, thy name is me.

I looked it over, with what I thought was a reasonable eye to problems
like stringers, etc and didn't think there were any major issues. I
put in an offer which was accepted and I arranged with a surveyor of
some experience to look at the boat and sea trial it.

Well, let's just say that about three minutes into the survey, he
found one bad prop, the other was marginal, the rudders were pigeon
toed, there were holes where the transducers and speedo were removed,
there were stress cracks along the bottom chines, the swim platform
bracket was fubar. Once he got into the boat he discovered that the
stringers were bad, there was hardware missing from the rudder
assembly, the floor had been replaced once (probably to accomodate a
new gas tank) and we stopped right there.

At least I found the blowen out muffler, the rotten bulkhead plywood
and the soft spots in the floor. ;)

Oh well, it was worth the money I paid to at least learn a lesson in
how it's done when it's done right. Worth every penny.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717




Thanks for the post. You know, a lot of wary boat buyers have a surveyor
examine a brand new boat they are considering, so they can present the
manufacturer or dealer with a list of items that need attention before
delivery is taken.

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats! It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a boat and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.

sel1 wrote:
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats! It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a boat and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's hard
earned cash.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Here's an object lesson for you boys and girls entering into the used
boat market.

I have been looking for a Pursuit/Topaz style boat to fill a gap
between the 20 foot Ranger Bay Boat and the 32 foot Contender (it's a
long story). I finally found one that I was very interested in. I
took a ride last weekend to look at it and, due to the fact that I am
reasonably well aquainted with boats and how they are built, I over
estimated my own ability to find problems. Hubris, thy name is me.

I looked it over, with what I thought was a reasonable eye to problems
like stringers, etc and didn't think there were any major issues. I
put in an offer which was accepted and I arranged with a surveyor of
some experience to look at the boat and sea trial it.

Well, let's just say that about three minutes into the survey, he
found one bad prop, the other was marginal, the rudders were pigeon
toed, there were holes where the transducers and speedo were removed,
there were stress cracks along the bottom chines, the swim platform
bracket was fubar. Once he got into the boat he discovered that the
stringers were bad, there was hardware missing from the rudder
assembly, the floor had been replaced once (probably to accomodate a
new gas tank) and we stopped right there.

At least I found the blowen out muffler, the rotten bulkhead plywood
and the soft spots in the floor. ;)

Oh well, it was worth the money I paid to at least learn a lesson in
how it's done when it's done right. Worth every penny.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717




Thanks for the post. You know, a lot of wary boat buyers have a surveyor
examine a brand new boat they are considering, so they can present the
manufacturer or dealer with a list of items that need attention before
delivery is taken.


Larger boats have a great number of very complex systems, and it would
be difficult for any except the most experienced and educated boat
buyers to know enough to know them all. I see no problem with hiring an
expert to help out...





--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

" jim--" wrote in message
...

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats! It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a boat
and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.


ISO 9000/9001 are very good standards to work by - we have many GOOD
contractors working for us whose organizations actually work by those
standards in their day-to-day activities. The problems come when
manufacturers use them only as lip-service :(

--
G.D.Smith
Harpers Ferry, WV

FOR SALE: 2003 Swee****er 22' Pontoon Boat
http://icanhelp56.homestead.com/gs_pontoon01.html


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 9/13/2004

Well, I sympathize with your pain. When we were boat shopping about 2
years ago, we went through a cycle of offers of about a dozen boats and
surveys on 3.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
..... I
put in an offer which was accepted and I arranged with a surveyor of
some experience to look at the boat and sea trial it.

Well, let's just say that about three minutes into the survey, he
found one bad prop, the other was marginal, the rudders were pigeon
toed, there were holes where the transducers and speedo were removed,
there were stress cracks along the bottom chines....(brevity snip)...
Oh well, it was worth the money I paid to at least learn a lesson in
how it's done when it's done right. Worth every penny.

It *is* worth the money... think about how expensive it would be to try
and fix all that stuff after you bought the boat.

Don't take it as a knock on your own knowledge... you haven't spent all
day every day, working at learning about technical details & how to spot
problems. I bet the surveyor appreciated your inspection and spent less
time gazing at flaws you already spotted, freeing him up for other stuff.

The next expensive (not to mention heartbreaking) lesson is that
surveyors *always* miss stuff. A really good surveyor will miss fewer
and less important/expensive things.

Fair Skies
Doug King

"Glenn S." wrote in message
...
" jim--" wrote in message
...

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats! It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a boat
and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.


ISO 9000/9001 are very good standards to work by - we have many GOOD
contractors working for us whose organizations actually work by those
standards in their day-to-day activities. The problems come when
manufacturers use them only as lip-service :(

--
G.D.Smith
Harpers Ferry, WV


ISO 9000 means nothing for quality of construction. Just means you have
full documentation on the construction. You can have built junk, but it
will be well documented junk.

Calif Bill wrote:
"Glenn S." wrote in message
...
" jim--" wrote in message
...

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats! It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a boat
and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.


ISO 9000/9001 are very good standards to work by - we have many GOOD
contractors working for us whose organizations actually work by those
standards in their day-to-day activities. The problems come when
manufacturers use them only as lip-service :(

--
G.D.Smith
Harpers Ferry, WV


ISO 9000 means nothing for quality of construction. Just means you have
full documentation on the construction. You can have built junk, but it
will be well documented junk.



Sorta like that last deck you built, eh?

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Glenn S." wrote in message
...
" jim--" wrote in message
...

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats!
It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a
boat
and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third
party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's
hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.


ISO 9000/9001 are very good standards to work by - we have many GOOD
contractors working for us whose organizations actually work by those
standards in their day-to-day activities. The problems come when
manufacturers use them only as lip-service :(

--
G.D.Smith
Harpers Ferry, WV


ISO 9000 means nothing for quality of construction. Just means you have
full documentation on the construction. You can have built junk, but it
will be well documented junk.



Sorta like that last deck you built, eh?

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

Not ISO 9000 or junk. You wish you could do as well.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 02:39:32 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

ISO 9000 means nothing for quality of construction. Just means you have
full documentation on the construction. You can have built junk, but it
will be well documented junk.

It's about as zero a standard as you can get and still call it a
standard. What a waste.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

Bill,
But as I remember you did post pictures (link) of your deck.
Paul

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Glenn S." wrote in message
...
" jim--" wrote in message
...

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats!
It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a
boat
and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third
party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's
hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the
ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.


ISO 9000/9001 are very good standards to work by - we have many GOOD
contractors working for us whose organizations actually work by those
standards in their day-to-day activities. The problems come when
manufacturers use them only as lip-service :(

--
G.D.Smith
Harpers Ferry, WV


ISO 9000 means nothing for quality of construction. Just means you
have
full documentation on the construction. You can have built junk, but
it
will be well documented junk.



Sorta like that last deck you built, eh?

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

Not ISO 9000 or junk. You wish you could do as well.

Nope.
"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Bill,
But as I remember you did post pictures (link) of your deck.
Paul

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Glenn S." wrote in message
...
" jim--" wrote in message
...

"sel1" wrote in message
...
I have heard that from many - getting surveys on brand new boats!
It's
pretty sad when you are spending up to hundreds of thousands on a
boat
and
you can still come up with a list of issues/defects from a third
party.
That's what I call quality control and concern for the customer's
hard
earned cash.

Indeed. What is even more pathetic are the folks buying into the
ISO
9000/9001 certification crap that some (can you say Sea Ray) boat
manufacturers tout.


ISO 9000/9001 are very good standards to work by - we have many GOOD
contractors working for us whose organizations actually work by
those
standards in their day-to-day activities. The problems come when
manufacturers use them only as lip-service :(

--
G.D.Smith
Harpers Ferry, WV


ISO 9000 means nothing for quality of construction. Just means you
have
full documentation on the construction. You can have built junk, but
it
will be well documented junk.



Sorta like that last deck you built, eh?

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

Not ISO 9000 or junk. You wish you could do as well.