"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Wow, all the left side guys sure seem upset by the Miller speech.
Actually
by the whole convention if I'm reading correctly.

The Zell Miller speech frames the righties for what so many of you are.

First, many of you define truth as whatever set of facts serves your
political
interest at the moment. You justify this by claiming that "politics is a
dirty
business", when you bother to justify it at all. Zell Miller praised Kerry
as a
"True American Hero", long after Kerry had taken the same positions that
Miller
cited in his tirade at the Republican convention.

Second, many of you you talk about prinicples like loyalty, but many of
you
have none. When Kerry
spoke in the Senate, and when he cast a grand total of two votes against
any
type of weapons system (one of the votes was on a committee report, not
even a
bill), he was *supporting* the Republican positions outlined by Bush Sr.
and
Dick Cheney.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/

Happy to accept Kerry's support for defense cuts when the Republicans,
(including the current VP and then Secty. of Defense), were advocating
greater
and larger cuts than congress wanted to authorize, your guys now take that
previous support and try to use it bury your previous supporter.

Zell Miller's speech is upsetting because it exemplifies exactly what is
wrong
with the political leadership in this country.

When one considers that every vote counts, and that in our dumbed-down,
sound
byte, under-educated society today there could be enough sheeple so
enthralled
by a good old fashioned string of
juvenile lies and insults to keep the current crew, and its lack of
ethics, in
power a while longer- it's pretty distressing.

The Democrat's guy is not without many flaws, but one past the "we're the
god
fearing, war mongering, old fashioned valued, compassionate, fiscally
conservative party trying to defend liberty at home and instill it
abroad"....once one examines the *actions* of the current regime, there is
an
excellent case for making a change.

Gould, you sure do have your panties in a tight wad.

Does the fact that time has reported a 10% difference between Bush and
Kerry, in Bush's favor contribute to your sour tone.

Does the fact that time has reported a 10% difference between Bush and
Kerry, in Bush's favor contribute to your sour tone.

No. The only meaningful poll is in November. Meanwhile, the post convention
Bush bounce will be as short-lived as the
"Death of Reagan" Bush bounce.

I fear for whatever desparate manipulation your guy will gravitate toward in
the next eight weeks.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't recall such a tirade after any of Dean's speeches, or after any
of
Harry's posts? Why is that?

John H

Because you have a selective memory?
I don't read even close to half of Harry's posts. He can be extremely
prolific,
and I don't always have the time. After the first or second post in a
thread it
usually devolves into one of the usual suspects exchanging childish
insults
with Harry. Boooooooring. "mark read".

He was talking about your tirades, Chuck! You profess to give everyone equal
time and attention but, you seem to always avoid criticizing liberals and
progressives.


Several times a year I express displeasure with Harry's style. I agree
with him
on many (not all) issues, but disagree about the appropriate tone of
discourse
in a public forum. Next time I chastise Harry for his style, perhaps you
will
make take note of it.

Harry is a lonely old bully. His ability to use words is very good but, he
has directed his invective at the soldiers and not the generals.

I cannot remember Howard Dean reeling off an impassioned string of
deliberate
falsehoods that could even make a pale comparison to Zell Miller's
scandalous,
amoral, flip flop attack on his formerly "close friend" and "true American
hero", John Kerry.

Scandalous, amoral and flip flop attack? The fate of western civilization is
at stake and Kerry want's to make nice with those that will not stop until
we are dead or until we kill them. On the other hand Bush understands the
desires of those allied against us and is ready to defend us by killing our
enemy.

If, this November, we sincere patriots and sons of Liberty save the
country
from a group of folks who want to set fire to the Consitution and spend us
into
oblivion (ala the Soviet Union), I suspect that Zell Miller's "close
friend"
will not invite him to the inaugural ball.

You've got it wrong again Chuck. Zell Miller will be attending an inaugural
event or two while Kerry will be crying on Teresa's shoulder about how the
American people just didn't understand.

"Camilo" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote
Democrats *are* full of hate. That's why the Republicans recruited a
Democrat to deliver that passionate speech.

Yea, not at all like the choir boy Swift Boat guys. Talk about hate.

Yeah, they're full of hate. Of course, Kerry called them murderers, baby
killers, and rapists...so I'd be a little ****ed off too.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Wow, all the left side guys sure seem upset by the Miller speech.
Actually
by the whole convention if I'm reading correctly.

The Zell Miller speech frames the righties for what so many of you are.

First, many of you define truth as whatever set of facts serves your
political
interest at the moment. You justify this by claiming that "politics is a
dirty
business", when you bother to justify it at all. Zell Miller praised
Kerry
as a
"True American Hero", long after Kerry had taken the same positions that
Miller
cited in his tirade at the Republican convention.

Second, many of you you talk about prinicples like loyalty, but many of
you
have none. When Kerry
spoke in the Senate, and when he cast a grand total of two votes against
any
type of weapons system (one of the votes was on a committee report, not
even a
bill), he was *supporting* the Republican positions outlined by Bush Sr.
and
Dick Cheney.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/

Happy to accept Kerry's support for defense cuts when the Republicans,
(including the current VP and then Secty. of Defense), were advocating
greater
and larger cuts than congress wanted to authorize, your guys now take
that
previous support and try to use it bury your previous supporter.

Zell Miller's speech is upsetting because it exemplifies exactly what is
wrong
with the political leadership in this country.

When one considers that every vote counts, and that in our dumbed-down,
sound
byte, under-educated society today there could be enough sheeple so
enthralled
by a good old fashioned string of
juvenile lies and insults to keep the current crew, and its lack of
ethics, in
power a while longer- it's pretty distressing.

The Democrat's guy is not without many flaws, but one past the "we're
the
god
fearing, war mongering, old fashioned valued, compassionate, fiscally
conservative party trying to defend liberty at home and instill it
abroad"....once one examines the *actions* of the current regime, there
is
an
excellent case for making a change.

Gould, you sure do have your panties in a tight wad.

Does the fact that time has reported a 10% difference between Bush and
Kerry, in Bush's favor contribute to your sour tone.

Another right-wing liar on rec.boats! It's 11 points...not 10. ;-)

http://www.time.com/time/press_relea...692562,00.html

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Does the fact that time has reported a 10% difference between Bush and
Kerry, in Bush's favor contribute to your sour tone.

No. The only meaningful poll is in November. Meanwhile, the post
convention
Bush bounce will be as short-lived as the
"Death of Reagan" Bush bounce.


That Reagan bounce didn't put Bush up by double-digits. Bush was behind 7
points in the Time poll on August 5th. In less than a month, there's been
an 18 point swing. That's far from "meaningless".

"NOYB" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Wow, all the left side guys sure seem upset by the Miller speech.
Actually
by the whole convention if I'm reading correctly.

The Zell Miller speech frames the righties for what so many of you
are.

First, many of you define truth as whatever set of facts serves your
political
interest at the moment. You justify this by claiming that "politics is
a
dirty
business", when you bother to justify it at all. Zell Miller praised
Kerry
as a
"True American Hero", long after Kerry had taken the same positions
that
Miller
cited in his tirade at the Republican convention.

Second, many of you you talk about prinicples like loyalty, but many
of
you
have none. When Kerry
spoke in the Senate, and when he cast a grand total of two votes
against
any
type of weapons system (one of the votes was on a committee report,
not
even a
bill), he was *supporting* the Republican positions outlined by Bush
Sr.
and
Dick Cheney.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/

Happy to accept Kerry's support for defense cuts when the Republicans,
(including the current VP and then Secty. of Defense), were advocating
greater
and larger cuts than congress wanted to authorize, your guys now take
that
previous support and try to use it bury your previous supporter.

Zell Miller's speech is upsetting because it exemplifies exactly what
is
wrong
with the political leadership in this country.

When one considers that every vote counts, and that in our
dumbed-down,
sound
byte, under-educated society today there could be enough sheeple so
enthralled
by a good old fashioned string of
juvenile lies and insults to keep the current crew, and its lack of
ethics, in
power a while longer- it's pretty distressing.

The Democrat's guy is not without many flaws, but one past the "we're
the
god
fearing, war mongering, old fashioned valued, compassionate, fiscally
conservative party trying to defend liberty at home and instill it
abroad"....once one examines the *actions* of the current regime,
there
is
an
excellent case for making a change.

Gould, you sure do have your panties in a tight wad.

Does the fact that time has reported a 10% difference between Bush and
Kerry, in Bush's favor contribute to your sour tone.

Another right-wing liar on rec.boats! It's 11 points...not 10. ;-)

http://www.time.com/time/press_relea...692562,00.html

And, I forgot to capitalize and quote or italicize "Time."

That Reagan bounce didn't put Bush up by double-digits. Bush was behind 7
points in the Time poll on August 5th. In less than a month, there's been
an 18 point swing. That's far from "meaningless".


We'll see.

Even though they have been generally discredited, I think the Swift Boat
jerkoffs did a lot of damage. While most people now realize it was a
combination political dirty trick and device to sell a newly released book, the
emotional impression on the stupid and mentally vulnerable remains long after
the accusations have been disproven. You guys are out of steam with that one,
but no doubt you have another pack of lies and distortions coming
down the pike right behind it.

The Swift Boat attack, and similar tactics, are effective. The side making the
attack takes several months to craft the lie and the game plan, and blind sides
the opposition with it. The opposition is initially somewhat disorganized in
response, requiring time to dig up the documentation that disproves the lies,
etc. During these critical first few hours or days, the sheeple
begin to conclude, "Golleruskis, looks like that must be true since the accused
doesn't seem to be able to put up a very well organized defense."

I will give your side this: you understand
the politics of fear and character destruction, and operate far more ruthlessly
than your opponents. You are so focused on "winning" the election that some of
you don't give a Schlitz about losing you soul in the process.

The Democrats may not be big enough *******s to out-******* the right wing if
the contest can be framed as "who's the biggest ******* around"?

There's always the contingent who will say, "Right now we actually need the
biggest, most ruthless *******s we can find. We need to be so feared by the
rest of the world that we can pursue our plan to "pre-emptively" kill everybody
on the planet who hates America, and overthrow the governments of any country
these people happen to live in, without creating additional danger of terrorist
reprisals here at home." If you believe that the way to stamp out hatred of
America is to kill the
people all around the world who hate us, such a position actually makes some
sense. People who believe that we can "pre emptively" kill enough people that
hate America without that very action creating even *more* people who hate
America should most definitely vote for the incumbent this fall. Great minds
think alike.

Those who lie, or allow others to lie for them during the campaign will lie, or
allow others to lie for them, as they govern.
The D's tell their share of whoppers, too.
Even so, it's time for a change.

In article , gould0738
@aol.com says...

Great response Chuck, thanks.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

...... The side making the
attack takes several months to craft the lie and the game plan, and blind
sides
the opposition with it. The opposition is initially somewhat disorganized
in
response, requiring time to dig up the documentation that disproves the
lies,
etc. During these critical first few hours or days, the sheeple
begin to conclude, "Golleruskis, looks like that must be true since the
accused
doesn't seem to be able to put up a very well organized defense."

I will give your side this: you understand
the politics of fear and character destruction, and operate far more
ruthlessly
than your opponents. You are so focused on "winning" the election that
some of you don't give a Schlitz about losing you soul in the process.

The Democrats may not be big enough *******s to out-******* the right wing
if the contest can be framed as "who's the biggest ******* around"?


In a perfect world, none of this vituperation would be necessary or
acceptable. But as long as one side is willing to go negative, you really
can't fault the other for maintaining an even field. It is pointless and
impossible to get into the who-started-what business. It is enough that
both sides do it, and both, in their turn, do it well.

If - a big if - what you say is accurate, that the right is far better right
now at this negative stuff than the left, it may well be, imo, only because
they have learned from the best. I recall a host of advertising during
campaigns of the nineties wherein the Dems used a variety of different
unions around the country to tout their message - officially separate from
the DNC. The teachers unions would run ads baldly stating that the Reps
would cut out school lunches. Various med care unions would run similar ads
claiming that Reps would eliminate Medicare and leave Grandma stranded on
the street. These were barefaced lies that were impossible to answer
effectively without getting bogged down in arcana. Bush in 2000 showed his
willingness to wade in the mud, and anyone from MA can tell you that Kerry's
mud-wrestling record is long and distinguished.