Greenland paddle, varnish or not
 

I have just about completed carving my Greenland style paddle. I am trying
to decide if I should varnish it or not. Any suggestions?

Kristopher

On 1-Sep-2004, " wrote:

I have just about completed carving my Greenland style paddle. I am trying
to decide if I should varnish it or not. Any suggestions?

Varnish can make it look pretty, but you end up with a hard surface that
gets slippery. You can dull down the varnish. Blends of varnish and
oil also reduce the gloss and slipperyness, too.

Personally, I prefer just oil - tung oil specifically. It's easy to
apply and gives decent protection. The surface texture is that of the
wood and is reasonably grippy.

If you're using western red cedar, consider not finishing it all. It will
hold up well. I prefer the colour of oiled cedar, though.

I find that putting epoxy on the tips is good for protection from
wear. You can add cabosil for increased wear resistance or put
fiberglass on the tip, but epoxy alone is easy and works fine.

Mike

I'd varnish the blades and oil the shaft. Protecting the edges with 3
coats of epoxy or polyester resin is a good idea. Epxoy can be purchased
in small twin tubes as "household adhesive" at your local discount
hardware department for under $5. Otherwise it's pricey. Polyester can be
bought in pints or half pints in the body repair section of you local
discount auto parts department. The last I bought ws a quart for $14. Next
best would be to put extra layers of polyurethane plastic varnish along the
edges.

Varnish will keep water, which can add weigth, from soaking into the
blades better, and the oil will keep the shaft "textured" which helps
prevent blisters which a smooth varnish can cause. If you decide to
varnish the shaft use a non-gloss finish or lightly sand after the varnish
has dried for 3 days or more. A traditional oil is 1/2 linseed and 1/2
volatile solvent, kerosene in the old days but any paint thinner will do.
The solvent helps the oil penetrate the wood grain and then it evaporates
off, just like it does in oil based pints and varnishes. Linseed oil is
the oil used in oil paints and its cheaper than paint. Kerosene was used
to kill any fungus in the wood which could cause rot on wooden boats,
maybe paint thinner does too but it's not an issue with a kayak shaft
which gets plenty of ventilation.

It would be interesting to weigh the paddle at various times during the
season to see if it is absorbing moisture and gaining weight.

" ) writes:
I have just about completed carving my Greenland style paddle. I am trying
to decide if I should varnish it or not. Any suggestions?

Kristopher




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William R. Watt ) writes:
I'd varnish the blades and oil the shaft. Protecting the edges with 3

Just to add that I oil the home made spruce spars for my sail boats with a
rag soaked in ordinary cooking oil (old jug of corn oil I stopped using
for cooking in favour of canola oil). This works fine. If you don't want
to buy special oils it would be fine for the shaft of the paddle which is
not in the water.

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John Fereira ) writes:

A quart of boiled linseed oil runs about $7. A quart of mazola corn oil is
about $5.

You'd go out and buy a quart of linseed oil to use a couple ounces on a
paddle sahft when you could just reach into your kitchen cupboard for a
couple ounces of cooking oil you already paid for? Chances are you'd
already have paint thinner on hand to thin out the linseed oil. If not,
you'd have to buy a quart of that too. That's the only reason I suggested
cooking oil.

You're correct that I haven't made or even used a Greenland kayak paddle.
The only kayak paddle I made has aluminum blades which didn't need any
finish and stand up better to wear than red cedar. I did refurbish an old
ash canoe paddle on which I epoxied the edges of the blade because I had
some epoxy on hand, varnished the blade with polyurethane because I had
some polyurethane varnish on hand (which I had purchased for 25 cents at a
garage sale), and oiled the shaft with linseed oil because I had some of
that and some paint thinner on hand. (You can buy linseeds, aka flax seed,
at a health food store and make your own linseed oil, and some day I might
try it to see if it's cheaper.) If you have to go out and buy all that
stuff retail just to finish one Greenalnd paddle it can more than double
the cost of the paddle considering a piece of red cedar doesn't cost much.
I have lots of red cedar on hand salvaged from the floorboards of a
backyard patio deck when I refloored it. I've cut up that red cear for
gunwales, chines, thwarts, a sprit and all kinds of things boaty. There's
nothing like making a paddle, or a whole boat, for free and I encourage
every paddle maker and boatbuilder to try it.

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Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. The paddle is a nice clear piece of
pine. I have plenty of epoxy around from building the rest of the boat. I
will probably varnish up to the looms, after I try the paddle out for a
while and make sure it fits well.

Kristopher

On 3-Sep-2004, (William R. Watt) wrote:

You'd go out and buy a quart of linseed oil to use a couple ounces on a
paddle sahft when you could just reach into your kitchen cupboard for a
couple ounces of cooking oil you already paid for?

Linseed oil polymerizes. Cooking oil goes rancid. Which is the better
deal?

BTW, tung oil is better than linseed oil if you're putting something in
the water all the time.

Mike

"Michael Daly" ) writes:

Linseed oil polymerizes. Cooking oil goes rancid. Which is the better
deal?

I haven't noticed any smell on the spars I've treated with cooking oil.
You might want to avoid cooking oil if you leave your paddles where
animals might get at them. But then you'd want to wash the salty
perperation off the shaft as well. I've seen a wooden paddle with the
shaft gnawed and boats with the seats gnawed out of them by porqupines for
the bum persperation salt.


BTW, tung oil is better than linseed oil if you're putting something in
the water all the time.

I did recommend varnishing the blades. I suspect kayak paddles spend 99.9%
of the time in somebody's closet.

Hell, my grandfather used to rub beaver fat into his boots and they were in
the water a lot. I've not tried beaver fat on paddle shafts. I don't know
if they have beaver in Greenland. It might not be traditional there.



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William R. Watt wrote:
John Fereira ) writes:

A quart of boiled linseed oil runs about $7. A quart of mazola corn oil is
about $5.

You'd go out and buy a quart of linseed oil to use a couple ounces on a
paddle sahft when you could just reach into your kitchen cupboard for a
couple ounces of cooking oil you already paid for? Chances are you'd
already have paint thinner on hand to thin out the linseed oil. If not,
you'd have to buy a quart of that too. That's the only reason I suggested
cooking oil.

Corn oil doesn't cure, it just soaks the wood, goes rancid and stinks.
It provides virtually no protection and is not a useful wood finish.

You can buy linseeds, aka flax seed,
at a health food store and make your own linseed oil, and some day I might
try it to see if it's cheaper.

You'd also need to buy some Japan Drier to add to it, unless you want to
wait weeks for it to cure. That would cost as much as buying boiled
linseed oil off the shelf. Raw linseed oil is not a good wood finish.

If you have to go out and buy all that
stuff retail just to finish one Greenalnd paddle it can more than double
the cost of the paddle considering a piece of red cedar doesn't cost much.

True, but you'll have plenty left over for other projects. Greenland
paddles are sort of like potato chips, you can't make just one. ;-)

Regarding epoxy, you can buy a quart kit of Everfix epoxy for $20 at
Home Depot, which is a bargain compared to what you pay for tubes. It
has a long shelf life, so it will still be usable when you need it in
the future.

Polyester resin is fine for laminating fiberglass, but it's a very poor
substitute for epoxy when you're working on wooden paddles. It's not an
adhesive and it's nowhere near as strong as epoxy.

I have lots of red cedar on hand salvaged from the floorboards of a
backyard patio deck when I refloored it. I've cut up that red cear for
gunwales, chines, thwarts, a sprit and all kinds of things boaty. There's
nothing like making a paddle, or a whole boat, for free and I encourage
every paddle maker and boatbuilder to try it.

Recycling materials is great, if you have access to them. Most of us
aren't as fortunate as you in that regard.

Brian Nystrom ) writes:

Polyester resin is fine for laminating fiberglass, but it's a very poor
substitute for epoxy when you're working on wooden paddles. It's not an
adhesive and it's nowhere near as strong as epoxy.

I have polyester resin and glass fibre on the tip of my cheapest paddle
which I use in place of my lightweight paddle on "rough" outings exploring
shallow rocky creeks and so forth where it's used to push as much as to
paddle. The tip has to be sanded and touched up after an active season,
done in early spring as part of the ritual pre-season boat maintenance.
The polyester can't be built up too thick or it cracks and comes away in
chunks. However adhesion is not a problem as the paddle tip is drlled with
small holes into which the resin sinks and grabs hold. I'd use whatever
resin I had on hand, and if both, then the least cost.

As for cooking oil, in spite of theoretical musings, it has worked well
for me and is cheap. Like boot grease I rub in until it's warm. That is
supposed to help it sink in.


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William R. Watt wrote:
Brian Nystrom ) writes:


Polyester resin is fine for laminating fiberglass, but it's a very poor
substitute for epoxy when you're working on wooden paddles. It's not an
adhesive and it's nowhere near as strong as epoxy.


I have polyester resin and glass fibre on the tip of my cheapest paddle
which I use in place of my lightweight paddle on "rough" outings exploring
shallow rocky creeks and so forth where it's used to push as much as to
paddle. The tip has to be sanded and touched up after an active season,
done in early spring as part of the ritual pre-season boat maintenance.
The polyester can't be built up too thick or it cracks and comes away in
chunks. However adhesion is not a problem as the paddle tip is drlled with
small holes into which the resin sinks and grabs hold.

That's all well and good, but polyester resin is lousy if you're simply
trying to apply fiberglass over wood, as you would with epoxy.

I'd use whatever resin I had on hand, and if both, then the least cost.

Well, I guess that's one difference between us. I'll use whatever
product is best for the application, rather than trying to save a few
cents, which is quite literally the difference when dealing with the
small quantities used on a paddle tip.

As for cooking oil, in spite of theoretical musings, it has worked well
for me and is cheap. Like boot grease I rub in until it's warm. That is
supposed to help it sink in.

There are a lot of myths surrounding wood finishes in general and oil
finishes in particular. Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood
Finishing" contains detailed explanations of all types of finishes and
debunks the common myths and misconceptions about them. Rubbing oil
finishes is a good example. It actually REDUCES penetration, as the heat
causes the oil to cure more quickly, so it has less time to penetrate
before it becomes too thick to do so. Rubbing oil does more for the
tactile sense of the woodworker than it does for the wood.

Brian Nystrom ) writes:

Well, I guess that's one difference between us. I'll use whatever
product is best for the application, rather than trying to save a few
cents, which is quite literally the difference when dealing with the
small quantities used on a paddle tip.

I've been in this argument before in rec.boats.building. There's a big
difference between the least cost material which meets the requirement and
the "best for the application".

It's true there is little difference in cost for the amount needed to
treat a paddle blade, but you can't buy resins in such small amounts. You
have to look at the cost of the least amount of resin sold and there
expoxy can double the cost of the paddle. Yes, you can claim that $20 more
for epoxy isn't going to send anyone to the poor house, but if you spend
double for everthing you do you end up doublign your cost of living. If
you can save 20% on everythibng you do its like getting a 20% raise in
salary and nobody would object to that.

...Rubbing oil
finishes is a good example. It actually REDUCES penetration, as the heat
causes the oil to cure more quickly, so it has less time to penetrate
before it becomes too thick to do so.

this from the guy who objected to vegetable oil because he claims it
DOESN'T cure.


.. Rubbing oil does more for the
tactile sense of the woodworker than it does for the wood.

but it does wonders for the woodworker's mind. if provides time to think.
try it sometime. :)


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I left my WRC GP natural and it has held up well. Its my 3rd year
using the paddle. I did color it in a unique way though. We were in
Prince Edward Island kayaking and the paddle was laid down onto the
bright red mud the island is made of. When I picked it back up I
noticed it had been stained a gorgeous reddish brown color. I packed
the paddle in the wet mud overnight and 3 years later the color is
still holding.

I brought a 5gal bucket of that soil back to stain my other paddles.
Just an idea if you happen to be passing theu PEI with your natural
paddle... :)

William R. Watt wrote:

Brian Nystrom ) writes:

Well, I guess that's one difference between us. I'll use whatever
product is best for the application, rather than trying to save a few
cents, which is quite literally the difference when dealing with the
small quantities used on a paddle tip.

I've been in this argument before in rec.boats.building. There's a big
difference between the least cost material which meets the requirement and
the "best for the application".

I don't agree that polyester "meets the requirement" if you're bonding
glass to wood. It definitely doesn't work well enough for the way I use
a paddle.

It's true there is little difference in cost for the amount needed to
treat a paddle blade, but you can't buy resins in such small amounts. You
have to look at the cost of the least amount of resin sold and there
expoxy can double the cost of the paddle. Yes, you can claim that $20 more
for epoxy isn't going to send anyone to the poor house, but if you spend
double for everthing you do you end up doublign your cost of living. If
you can save 20% on everythibng you do its like getting a 20% raise in
salary and nobody would object to that.

You're obviously free to live your life as you wish and I certainly
appreciate the value of being thrifty, but there's a point where
"thrifty" crosses over into "false economy". IMO, this is one of those
cases.

...Rubbing oil
finishes is a good example. It actually REDUCES penetration, as the heat
causes the oil to cure more quickly, so it has less time to penetrate
before it becomes too thick to do so.


this from the guy who objected to vegetable oil because he claims it
DOESN'T cure.

I haven't changed my mind, I was simply referring to the effect of
rubbing on finishes that DO cure.