Smoking Diesel
 

have purchased a 46 ft. Viking Sportfish.. 1984 Detroit 892 Turbo
Hull No. ID

Both engines have been completely overhauled last spring and have
apprx. 450 hours on them.. Boat performs well while underload at 1950
rpm it cruises at 20-21 knotts. At 2350 rpm boat can run 24-25
knotts. No load engines run rpm up to 2650

After several months and various mechanics in Freeport,Texas,
LaMarque,Texas, Galveston,Texas I still have a problem with engine
smoking diesel. Enjectors have been calibrated and adjusted, but when
boat is loaded with 900 gallons diesel, 80 gallons of water, and 8
fisherman with supplies, we find the engines smoke (both) while
underway.. Unless the boat is on top of the water and cruising at
least 1800 rpm (17knotts) we have very bad diesel smoke problem.
Dreadfull smoking at low speeds, but when boat is running high rpm and
cruise at 19-21 knotts we have less smoking, but still too much as the
smoke covers the transom and back of boat within 8 hours. We are not
burning any Oil while running. If any, less than 2 quarts per 24 hours
of cruising.

I clean the air filters (4) before every trip out, but we still find
black diesel smoke all over the boat.
I am at an impasse as what the problem is. Everyone seems to have
ideas and suggestions, but nothing is resolved. I have owned the boat
for over a year and spent time and money on upgrades, cosmetics,
electronics, and engine rebuild, new wheels and tuneup of wheels per
Hood Marine Propeller Shop in Houston,Texas..

I recently looked at pictures of 1982-83 Viking 46 and picture showed
that there were air scoops and ventilation to engine room on outside
of hull.. 1984-1985 model (like mine) have air ventilation in
cockpit.. When the 47 ft. Viking came out the next year, the
ventilation was back on the outside of cockpit and on the side Hull
as years previous.

Is this a cause of the black smoke on my 46 Viking? Am I not getting
enough air into the engine room. Everything is standard equipment, but
this could be a problem.. Can you lend any assistance or advise

Capt. Dan wrote:

have purchased a 46 ft. Viking Sportfish.. 1984 Detroit 892 Turbo
Hull No. ID

Both engines have been completely overhauled last spring and have
apprx. 450 hours on them.. Boat performs well while underload at 1950
rpm it cruises at 20-21 knotts. At 2350 rpm boat can run 24-25
knotts. No load engines run rpm up to 2650

After several months and various mechanics in Freeport,Texas,
LaMarque,Texas, Galveston,Texas I still have a problem with engine
smoking diesel. Enjectors have been calibrated and adjusted, but when
boat is loaded with 900 gallons diesel, 80 gallons of water, and 8
fisherman with supplies, we find the engines smoke (both) while
underway.. Unless the boat is on top of the water and cruising at
least 1800 rpm (17knotts) we have very bad diesel smoke problem.
Dreadfull smoking at low speeds, but when boat is running high rpm and
cruise at 19-21 knotts we have less smoking, but still too much as the
smoke covers the transom and back of boat within 8 hours. We are not
burning any Oil while running. If any, less than 2 quarts per 24 hours
of cruising.

I clean the air filters (4) before every trip out, but we still find
black diesel smoke all over the boat.
I am at an impasse as what the problem is. Everyone seems to have
ideas and suggestions, but nothing is resolved. I have owned the boat
for over a year and spent time and money on upgrades, cosmetics,
electronics, and engine rebuild, new wheels and tuneup of wheels per
Hood Marine Propeller Shop in Houston,Texas..

I recently looked at pictures of 1982-83 Viking 46 and picture showed
that there were air scoops and ventilation to engine room on outside
of hull.. 1984-1985 model (like mine) have air ventilation in
cockpit.. When the 47 ft. Viking came out the next year, the
ventilation was back on the outside of cockpit and on the side Hull
as years previous.

Is this a cause of the black smoke on my 46 Viking? Am I not getting
enough air into the engine room. Everything is standard equipment, but
this could be a problem.. Can you lend any assistance or advise


HAve you had the fuel pumps and injectors checked?

--
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
And don't forget to pay your taxes so the rich don't have to!

Love those old 2 stroke Detroits!
Nothing like the sound of one of those screaming away....

Here is a great site for marine diesels:
http://boatdiesel.com/Forums

Those old Detroits will always smoke more than a modern design.
Black smoke = fuel rich (worn injectors )

The 2 stroke Detroits have NO injector pump, so that is not an issue.

Those engines will suck as much air as they need - I put zero creedence in
the not enough air theory.

Again, those engines awlays are pretty smoky. If the injectors are OK, and
you are running diesel with a high enough Cetane, learn to love the smoke.



"Capt. Dan" wrote in message
om...
have purchased a 46 ft. Viking Sportfish.. 1984 Detroit 892 Turbo
Hull No. ID

Both engines have been completely overhauled last spring and have
apprx. 450 hours on them.. Boat performs well while underload at 1950
rpm it cruises at 20-21 knotts. At 2350 rpm boat can run 24-25
knotts. No load engines run rpm up to 2650

After several months and various mechanics in Freeport,Texas,
LaMarque,Texas, Galveston,Texas I still have a problem with engine
smoking diesel. Enjectors have been calibrated and adjusted, but when
boat is loaded with 900 gallons diesel, 80 gallons of water, and 8
fisherman with supplies, we find the engines smoke (both) while
underway.. Unless the boat is on top of the water and cruising at
least 1800 rpm (17knotts) we have very bad diesel smoke problem.
Dreadfull smoking at low speeds, but when boat is running high rpm and
cruise at 19-21 knotts we have less smoking, but still too much as the
smoke covers the transom and back of boat within 8 hours. We are not
burning any Oil while running. If any, less than 2 quarts per 24 hours
of cruising.

I clean the air filters (4) before every trip out, but we still find
black diesel smoke all over the boat.
I am at an impasse as what the problem is. Everyone seems to have
ideas and suggestions, but nothing is resolved. I have owned the boat
for over a year and spent time and money on upgrades, cosmetics,
electronics, and engine rebuild, new wheels and tuneup of wheels per
Hood Marine Propeller Shop in Houston,Texas..

I recently looked at pictures of 1982-83 Viking 46 and picture showed
that there were air scoops and ventilation to engine room on outside
of hull.. 1984-1985 model (like mine) have air ventilation in
cockpit.. When the 47 ft. Viking came out the next year, the
ventilation was back on the outside of cockpit and on the side Hull
as years previous.

Is this a cause of the black smoke on my 46 Viking? Am I not getting
enough air into the engine room. Everything is standard equipment, but
this could be a problem.. Can you lend any assistance or advise

Capt. Dan wrote:
have purchased a 46 ft. Viking Sportfish.. 1984 Detroit 892 Turbo
Hull No. ID

Both engines have been completely overhauled last spring and have
apprx. 450 hours on them.. Boat performs well while underload at 1950
rpm it cruises at 20-21 knotts. At 2350 rpm boat can run 24-25
knotts. No load engines run rpm up to 2650

First off, I'm neither a mechanic or a diesel expert, but I have some
questions.
1. What's "no load" rpm's "supposed" to be?
2. What is WOT "loaded"?
3. If you try to open a hatch/door to ER when at WOT underway, do you
have to open against a suction?

otn

In article ,
Capt. Dan wrote:


have purchased a 46 ft. Viking Sportfish.. 1984 Detroit 892 Turbo
Hull No. ID

Both engines have been completely overhauled last spring and have
apprx. 450 hours on them.. Boat performs well while underload at 1950
rpm it cruises at 20-21 knotts. At 2350 rpm boat can run 24-25
knotts. No load engines run rpm up to 2650

After several months and various mechanics in Freeport,Texas,
LaMarque,Texas, Galveston,Texas I still have a problem with engine
smoking diesel. Enjectors have been calibrated and adjusted, but when
boat is loaded with 900 gallons diesel, 80 gallons of water, and 8
fisherman with supplies, we find the engines smoke (both) while
underway.. Unless the boat is on top of the water and cruising at
least 1800 rpm (17knotts) we have very bad diesel smoke problem.
Dreadfull smoking at low speeds, but when boat is running high rpm and
cruise at 19-21 knotts we have less smoking, but still too much as the
smoke covers the transom and back of boat within 8 hours. We are not
burning any Oil while running. If any, less than 2 quarts per 24 hours
of cruising.

I clean the air filters (4) before every trip out, but we still find
black diesel smoke all over the boat.
I am at an impasse as what the problem is. Everyone seems to have
ideas and suggestions, but nothing is resolved. I have owned the boat
for over a year and spent time and money on upgrades, cosmetics,
electronics, and engine rebuild, new wheels and tuneup of wheels per
Hood Marine Propeller Shop in Houston,Texas..

I recently looked at pictures of 1982-83 Viking 46 and picture showed
that there were air scoops and ventilation to engine room on outside
of hull.. 1984-1985 model (like mine) have air ventilation in
cockpit.. When the 47 ft. Viking came out the next year, the
ventilation was back on the outside of cockpit and on the side Hull
as years previous.

Is this a cause of the black smoke on my 46 Viking? Am I not getting
enough air into the engine room. Everything is standard equipment, but
this could be a problem.. Can you lend any assistance or advise

Sure.

First, I HIGHLY DOUBT that you have an engine room air problem. Those
problems only show up at higher RPMs, and YOUR problem is showing up at ALL
RPMs. However, they're simple to check.

First, we need some more information.

1. What is the full-load, WOT RPM. Your no-load RPM is TOO HIGH - it
should be 2500 RPM. You need to fix this - being 50 rpm over is ok,
but 150 RPM over is NOT. Also, you MUST use a phototach for this -
bridge tachs are NOT acceptable, as they are almost NEVER right.

2. The fact that the no-load RPM is wrong means the governor is out
of adjustment and the rack may be as well. Have whoever did the
tuneup last time come back and do it correctly this time.

Once you know that stuff is correct, in order of complexity, begin he

1. While underwater, PULL THE ENGINE ROOM HATCH. If the smoke
disappears, you have too much restriction on the air intake into the
engine room. You will NOT like what it takes to fix this, but if
that's the problem, there's your issue..

2. Attach pressure gauges to BOTH the airhorn and airbox ports.
Go for a run. Your AIRBOX pressure must EQUAL OR EXCEED the arihorn
pressure. Also, report boost levels (at both airhorn and airbox)
at 1800, 1900, 2000, 2100, 2200 and WOT (which should be at least
2300) RPM.

3. Any starting anomalies? Describe the engine's behavior on a cold
start at a given (you choose) ambient temperature where it has not
been run for at least 48 hours (that is, the blocks are room
temperature cold) WITH NO BLOCK HEATER ASSIST.

Report back and we can go from there.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

In article ,
bomar wrote:


Love those old 2 stroke Detroits!
Nothing like the sound of one of those screaming away....

Here is a great site for marine diesels:
http://boatdiesel.com/Forums

Those old Detroits will always smoke more than a modern design.
Black smoke = fuel rich (worn injectors )

The 2 stroke Detroits have NO injector pump, so that is not an issue.

Those engines will suck as much air as they need - I put zero creedence in
the not enough air theory.

Again, those engines awlays are pretty smoky. If the injectors are OK, and
you are running diesel with a high enough Cetane, learn to love the smoke.

Bull****.

I have 6V92TAs and mine do not smoke or foul the transom AT ALL.

Its all in them being set up correctly, in proper tune, and not having
maintenance problems of one kind or another.

If they're smoking something is ****ed up.

I've yet to see a Detroit 2-stroke that I can't stop from smoking, unless
the compression is low - in which case its immediately obvious on a cold
start and the only fix is a rebuild.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

"Karl Denninger" wrote in message
ink.net...

In article ,
bomar wrote:


Love those old 2 stroke Detroits!
Nothing like the sound of one of those screaming away....

Here is a great site for marine diesels:
http://boatdiesel.com/Forums

Those old Detroits will always smoke more than a modern design.
Black smoke = fuel rich (worn injectors )

The 2 stroke Detroits have NO injector pump, so that is not an issue.

Those engines will suck as much air as they need - I put zero creedence
in
the not enough air theory.

Again, those engines awlays are pretty smoky. If the injectors are OK,
and
you are running diesel with a high enough Cetane, learn to love the
smoke.

Bull****.

I have 6V92TAs and mine do not smoke or foul the transom AT ALL.

Its all in them being set up correctly, in proper tune, and not having
maintenance problems of one kind or another.

If they're smoking something is ****ed up.

I've yet to see a Detroit 2-stroke that I can't stop from smoking, unless
the compression is low - in which case its immediately obvious on a cold
start and the only fix is a rebuild.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

Well excuse me all to Hell, asshole!
My experience in DD 2 strokes is limited to trucks and farm equipment, and I
have seen a ****load of them smoke over the years.
**** you and the **** heap you rode in on.

Hmmmm I wonder if I can get any points for asking the right questions BG

otn

Karl Denninger wrote:
In article ,
Capt. Dan wrote:


have purchased a 46 ft. Viking Sportfish.. 1984 Detroit 892 Turbo
Hull No. ID

Both engines have been completely overhauled last spring and have
apprx. 450 hours on them.. Boat performs well while underload at 1950
rpm it cruises at 20-21 knotts. At 2350 rpm boat can run 24-25
knotts. No load engines run rpm up to 2650

After several months and various mechanics in Freeport,Texas,
LaMarque,Texas, Galveston,Texas I still have a problem with engine
smoking diesel. Enjectors have been calibrated and adjusted, but when
boat is loaded with 900 gallons diesel, 80 gallons of water, and 8
fisherman with supplies, we find the engines smoke (both) while
underway.. Unless the boat is on top of the water and cruising at
least 1800 rpm (17knotts) we have very bad diesel smoke problem.
Dreadfull smoking at low speeds, but when boat is running high rpm and
cruise at 19-21 knotts we have less smoking, but still too much as the
smoke covers the transom and back of boat within 8 hours. We are not
burning any Oil while running. If any, less than 2 quarts per 24 hours
of cruising.

I clean the air filters (4) before every trip out, but we still find
black diesel smoke all over the boat.
I am at an impasse as what the problem is. Everyone seems to have
ideas and suggestions, but nothing is resolved. I have owned the boat
for over a year and spent time and money on upgrades, cosmetics,
electronics, and engine rebuild, new wheels and tuneup of wheels per
Hood Marine Propeller Shop in Houston,Texas..

I recently looked at pictures of 1982-83 Viking 46 and picture showed
that there were air scoops and ventilation to engine room on outside
of hull.. 1984-1985 model (like mine) have air ventilation in
cockpit.. When the 47 ft. Viking came out the next year, the
ventilation was back on the outside of cockpit and on the side Hull
as years previous.

Is this a cause of the black smoke on my 46 Viking? Am I not getting
enough air into the engine room. Everything is standard equipment, but
this could be a problem.. Can you lend any assistance or advise


Sure.

First, I HIGHLY DOUBT that you have an engine room air problem. Those
problems only show up at higher RPMs, and YOUR problem is showing up at ALL
RPMs. However, they're simple to check.

First, we need some more information.

1. What is the full-load, WOT RPM. Your no-load RPM is TOO HIGH - it
should be 2500 RPM. You need to fix this - being 50 rpm over is ok,
but 150 RPM over is NOT. Also, you MUST use a phototach for this -
bridge tachs are NOT acceptable, as they are almost NEVER right.

2. The fact that the no-load RPM is wrong means the governor is out
of adjustment and the rack may be as well. Have whoever did the
tuneup last time come back and do it correctly this time.

Once you know that stuff is correct, in order of complexity, begin he

1. While underwater, PULL THE ENGINE ROOM HATCH. If the smoke
disappears, you have too much restriction on the air intake into the
engine room. You will NOT like what it takes to fix this, but if
that's the problem, there's your issue..

2. Attach pressure gauges to BOTH the airhorn and airbox ports.
Go for a run. Your AIRBOX pressure must EQUAL OR EXCEED the arihorn
pressure. Also, report boost levels (at both airhorn and airbox)
at 1800, 1900, 2000, 2100, 2200 and WOT (which should be at least
2300) RPM.

3. Any starting anomalies? Describe the engine's behavior on a cold
start at a given (you choose) ambient temperature where it has not
been run for at least 48 hours (that is, the blocks are room
temperature cold) WITH NO BLOCK HEATER ASSIST.

Report back and we can go from there.

--

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:07:12 GMT, "bomar" wrote:

My experience in DD 2 strokes is limited to trucks and farm equipment, and I
have seen a ****load of them smoke over the years.

===============================================

Karl's right. When they are in good condition, they don't smoke.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned taking a look at the intercoolers
(assuming it has them). They can definitely restrict air flow.

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:


On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:07:12 GMT, "bomar" wrote:

My experience in DD 2 strokes is limited to trucks and farm equipment, and I
have seen a ****load of them smoke over the years.

===============================================

Karl's right. When they are in good condition, they don't smoke.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned taking a look at the intercoolers
(assuming it has them). They can definitely restrict air flow.

They're aftercoolers (10:1 odds given the year) and getting to them requires
pulling the blower, which is a major pain in the ass.

That is the purpose of the airbox/airhorn pressure test I asked him to run.

It will RELIABLY indicate if the aftercoolers are fouled, and you're right -
this is one of the major reasons for this particular problem.

Pulling the blower without KNOWING the coolers are fouled sucks - if you
take it all apart and they're CLEAN you just did 8 hours of work PER ENGINE
- or more, considering you now need to retune them as well - for nothing.

--
--
Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind