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dock line size?
Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines
should be? I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I really be looking at? Thanks! Gary |
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:24:51 GMT, "Gary"
wrote: Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines should be? I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I really be looking at? Thanks! 1/2 to 5/8" nylon braid is more than sufficient for that boat. With all due respect, adjusting and inspecting your dock lines should become a habit. However, to each their own. Later, Tom |
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:24:51 GMT, "Gary"
wrote: Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines should be? I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I really be looking at? ============================================= My old boat was about the same size and weight (33 ft 23,000#) and we used 5/8 inch nylon lines for short term tie ups. For longer, unattended docking I'd recommend 3/4 inch. My mooring lines were 7/8 with lots of chafing protection. Never had problems with any of that. I once had a dock line break on a 34 ft sailboat in calm wind conditions. It was 1/2 inch dacron braid (low stretch compared to nylon). The breakage was caused by interaction of the boat with a floating dock in response to a wake. The boat and dock were moving in different directions and at different rates, causing the dock line to snap like a rubberband with no warning. Fortunately I was next to the boat when it happened and was able to quickly re-tie. All that is offered by way of explanation for my conservative approach and use of nylon line. |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... With all due respect, adjusting and inspecting your dock lines should become a habit. One good storm is usually enough to make that lesson clear, especially if one does not know how to tie spring lines. I'll also add that no matter what size the boat, the owner should have enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that moment. |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:24:51 GMT, "Gary" wrote: Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines should be? I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I really be looking at? ============================================= My old boat was about the same size and weight (33 ft 23,000#) and we used 5/8 inch nylon lines for short term tie ups. For longer, unattended docking I'd recommend 3/4 inch. My mooring lines were 7/8 with lots of chafing protection. Never had problems with any of that. I once had a dock line break on a 34 ft sailboat in calm wind conditions. It was 1/2 inch dacron braid (low stretch compared to nylon). The breakage was caused by interaction of the boat with a floating dock in response to a wake. The boat and dock were moving in different directions and at different rates, causing the dock line to snap like a rubberband with no warning. Fortunately I was next to the boat when it happened and was able to quickly re-tie. All that is offered by way of explanation for my conservative approach and use of nylon line. For temporary tieups I would use 1/2" at most. Easier to handle. |
Gary wrote:
Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines should be? Yes, The problem is that there are several rules of thumb and give conflicting results. It also depends on what type of line you choose (braid or laid). I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. You should have 1/2" or 5/8" liness... personally I'd get 1/2" laid (3-strand), check them often, and count on replacing them sooner, rather than 5/8" left in place forever. Get white dock lines, or at most white with some colored patern. They are much more visible. Don't get the black ones, they look cool but they are hard to see at night or in the rain. It's also more difficult to evaluate them for chafe. BTW I also put spliced loops in BOTH ends of all my dock lines, so that when coming in to a dock, if a stranger wants to "help" I can hand him a loop and not have to trust my boat to his unknown knot-tying skill. Lines that are too thick are stronger, but they are also heavier and more awkward to handle. ... I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. Umm, yeah. It's a safety issue... you need decent lines. Decent ground tackle too. ... I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. This isn't particularly good reasoning. You should have a good set of dock lines, you should check them often. Re-tying them is not so much trouble, think what a PITA it would be if your boat broke free. If you don't want to tie it up properly, then you should get a lift. There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I really be looking at? You need 6 dock lines. 2 can be shorties, 20' or so. These will be used for bow & stern breast lines, which don't need to be too long. Then you need 2 spring lines, which need to be *at least* the length + the beam of the boat. You won't always use all that length, but the times when you do need it, there is no substitute (other than expensive fiberglass repair & increased insurance rates). Then you need 2 more emergency lines the same as your spring lines, or one double length one + a third shorty. If you tie up in a slip to two outer pilings, with crossed stern lines, you'll need two intermediate length lines for the stern, but they will be of less use elsewhere when tying up. This is probably more than you want to know, but less than you really need to know. Got a copy of Chapman's? Fair Skies Doug King |
"DSK" wrote in message
. .. Got a copy of Chapman's? By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch! :-) |
On 8/26/2004 12:33 PM, Doug Kanter wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message . .. Got a copy of Chapman's? By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch! :-) We've got a 1942 edition on board our Chris. Some of the stuff is pretty funny (Poly-whatsit fenders? Everyone knows fenders are made out of hemp!), but the basics don't really change. -- ~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat" "There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." -Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows |
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:33:15 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... Got a copy of Chapman's? By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch! :-) I have my father's Blue Jacket Manual from his hitch in the USCG in 1936. It's very different from today's Blue Jacket Manual, although some things are very similar. Later, Tom |
I have a 1956 edition and a 1979 edition talk about a difference.
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "DSK" wrote in message . .. Got a copy of Chapman's? By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch! :-) |
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:25:56 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote: Wayne B wrote: I once had a dock line break on a 34 ft sailboat in calm wind conditions. It was 1/2 inch dacron braid (low stretch compared to nylon). The breakage was caused by interaction of the boat with a floating dock in response to a wake. The boat and dock were moving in different directions and at different rates, causing the dock line to snap like a rubberband with no warning. Fortunately I was next to the boat when it happened and was able to quickly re-tie. All that is offered by way of explanation for my conservative approach and use of nylon line. For temporary tieups I would use 1/2" at most. Easier to handle. ================================================== = Maybe for a gas dock tie up where you're standing next to the boat. Most gas docks have their own lines however. My sailboat that broke the 1/2 inch line was only 10,000 #s. The wake wasn't supposed to be there but it happened. Assuming you don't want to carry two sets of lines, and would ocassionally like to duck into a restaurant, etc., I'll stick with my 5/8 recommendation. |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that moment. I remember reading somewhere (Power Squadron course?) that your bow line shouldn't be longer than your boat length. This way, if the line falls overboard while the boat is making way, the line can't get caught in the propeller. |
Don White wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that moment. I remember reading somewhere (Power Squadron course?) that your bow line shouldn't be longer than your boat length. This way, if the line falls overboard while the boat is making way, the line can't get caught in the propeller. If the boat is a jet it will need to be shorted yet :-) My little brother sucked one up on his Sea-Rayder soap-dish jet boat. Had real good line. Bent the impeller. Capt Jack R.. |
Good tip!
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that moment. I remember reading somewhere (Power Squadron course?) that your bow line shouldn't be longer than your boat length. This way, if the line falls overboard while the boat is making way, the line can't get caught in the propeller. |
... I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. This isn't particularly good reasoning. You should have a good set of dock lines, you should check them often. Re-tying them is not so much trouble, think what a PITA it would be if your boat broke free. Thanks for the advice Doug! I guess what I was trying to say here and maybe didn't do it as clearly as I should have is that I know that I need to adjust and inspect my lines often, but I need additional lines so that I don't have to TAKE the lines from my slip with me every time I go out. I'd rather leave them in place and adjust / inspect them as necessary, but not carry them with me. I'll buy the necessary lines and carry them onboard, but I was just curious about the size of line that I should buy. I have 5/8", 3 strand at the dock, but I didn't buy that line. It came with the boat from the previous owner and yes...it is in very good shape. I really just wondered what the consensus was about that size of line...adequate, overkill, too small. It sounds like it's adequate. Thanks again for taking the time to write that long reply too Doug, and thanks to everyone else who took the time to answer this question as well! Gary |
Lots of other Good Advice on size of lines, so I won't add to it. One thing I learned (from a powerboater!) was the convenience of a "midship line". If you're coming in to a tricky dock, esp. with minimal crew (like singlehanded!): You tie off the bow, and stern goes away on you. Tie the stern, and off goes the bow. Tie a midship line, and you got 'er! Then, of course, add bow, stern and stringers at your leasure. I usually leave the midship line on, "just in case". Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - off to Desolation Sound next week! |
I'm always surprised at how few boats have cleats or chocks on the
"shoulder" (A point @1/3 aft from the stem or where the hull flattens out), for this purpose. otn Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Lots of other Good Advice on size of lines, so I won't add to it. One thing I learned (from a powerboater!) was the convenience of a "midship line". If you're coming in to a tricky dock, esp. with minimal crew (like singlehanded!): You tie off the bow, and stern goes away on you. Tie the stern, and off goes the bow. Tie a midship line, and you got 'er! Then, of course, add bow, stern and stringers at your leasure. I usually leave the midship line on, "just in case". Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - off to Desolation Sound next week! |
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:55:09 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote: I'm always surprised at how few boats have cleats or chocks on the "shoulder" (A point @1/3 aft from the stem or where the hull flattens out), for this purpose. Funny you should mention that - I had some installed on my Ranger for that very reason. Later, Tom |
Gary wrote:
..... I have 5/8", 3 strand at the dock, but I didn't buy that line. It came with the boat from the previous owner and yes...it is in very good shape. I really just wondered what the consensus was about that size of line...adequate, overkill, too small. It sounds like it's adequate. Sure, 5/8" 3-straid nylon (laid or twisted type rope) should have a working strength of around 7,500#. The actual force needed to break it will be much more (between 2X and 3X), but when a rope is subjected to it's working load for a sustained period of time, it stretches permamently and begins to lose strength. Dacron rope will be a little weaker but won't stretch as much. Stretch is good in dock lines, and anchor lines, because it does not put as much impulse load on the cleats and it will give more warning before breaking. Differences between braided & laid: braided is stronger, not as stretchy, and much more resistant to abrasion. Braided lines will keep their strength better when knotted or slightly chafed. They are more complicated to splice. Braided lines have less tendency to kink and will not unravel. I also think braided lines are easier to handle overall. It may be that coming from a background in sailboats, I am more familiar with braided lines and more comfortable with them. We have several 3-strand dock lines though. Thanks again for taking the time to write that long reply too Doug, and thanks to everyone else who took the time to answer this question as well! You're welcome, this was a nice break from all the politics. Fair Skies Doug King |
Did you obsess about your yacht club uniform until the later edition came
out? :-) "Illinois Fisherman" wrote in message ... I have a 1956 edition and a 1979 edition talk about a difference. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "DSK" wrote in message . .. Got a copy of Chapman's? By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch! :-) |
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message snip One thing I learned (from a powerboater!) was the convenience of a "midship line". If you're coming in to a tricky dock, esp. with minimal crew (like singlehanded!): You tie off the bow, and stern goes away on you. Tie the stern, and off goes the bow. Tie a midship line, and you got 'er! snip ** He he! Twice I saw our skipper end up in the drink when he did just that. |
"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:8PqXc.14204
For temporary tieups I would use 1/2" at most. Easier to handle. So, you'd use 1/2", period, huh? Doesn't matter what the strength is, you'd just use it, because it's easier to handle??? |
Have we ever discussed how big the boat is and where we are tying it up?
The line that is perfect for a 14' aluminum boat on a small lake is totally inadequate for a 40' offshore boat in tidal water. Most people should have a variety of lines for different circumstances. I like a few 1/2 with snaps on one end for those quickie tie ups at the gas dock or lunch dock but I have spliced lines set up for my dock. I even have a couple heavy duty bungee cords for those times when the tide is falling or rising and I want some kind of snubber, in addition to the regular lines. They are also handy when you are rafting. Get the heaviest black rubber ones you can find at a truck stop. Take off the hooks and attach snaps with a shackle or ring. You will be surprised how many times they will come in handy. Just remember it isn't really a line, just a snubber. |
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Gary I trust you found your answer in this pile of confusion.
Another case of a simple question being asked and answered with the first reply, followed by 99 others trying to explain why their way is better. This place will never change....and they call it a boating NG. Pretty funny. "Gary" wrote in message m... Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines should be? I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I really don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return. There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I really be looking at? Thanks! Gary |
This is dangerous and unseamanlike advice in my opinion. Learn to use
spring lines to compensate for rising and falling tides. Yes dad |
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